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THE CARSWELL COMPANY LIMITED

JOURNALS

OF THE

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

VOL. XXXI.

JOURNALS

OF TICK

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

OF THE

PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.

FBOM 30th NOVEMBER, 1897 TO 17th JANUARY, 1898.

(BOTH DAYS INCLUSIVE.)

IN THE SIXTY-FIRST TEAR OF THE REIGN OF OUR SOVEREIGN

LADY, QUEEN VICTORIA.

JtKINU THK

FOURTH SESSION OF THE EIGHTH LEGISLATURE OF ONTARIO.

SESSI03ST 18Q7-8

PRINTED BY ORDER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.
•VOID. ZXIZXHXII.

INDEX

TO THE

THIRTY-FIRST VOLUME

Gl •VXOTOIRI^, ±8QY-98.

A COOUNTS, (Dominion and the Provinces):

J\.

Return ordered, of copy of Award of Arbitrators on the ; copies of judgments given
on appeal, etc., 45. (Not brought down.)

ACCOUNTS, PUBLIC. See Public Accounts.

ADDRESS :

Mr. Speaker informs the House that he had received a communication from the
Secretary of the Governor-General acknowledging Address to Her Majesty
Queen Victoria, on the occasion of Her Diamond Jubilee, 3.

ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE :
Petition re expense of, 60.
AGRICULTURAL COLLEGE :

1. Report presented, 140, (Sessional Papers No. 17.) Printed.

2. Return presented, to an Order of the House, of the Session of 1897, for a Return

shewing how many acres of land are contained in the " farm proper/' etc,, 169.
(Sessional Papers No. 62.) Not printed.

3. Return presented, to an Order of the House of the Session of 1897, for a ReVurn

shewing the cost of, etc , 184. (Sessional Papers No. 65.) Printed.

AGRICULTURAL EXHIBITIONS :

Bill (No. 57), introduced to. prevent gambling, etc., at, 67. Second reading, 93.
House goes into Committee on, 105. Third reading, 130. R. A., 188. (61
Vic. c. 31.)

AGRICULTURAL EXPERIMENTAL UNION :

Report presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 53.) Printed.

AGRICULTURE AND ARTS ACT :

1. Bill (No. 81), introduced to amend, 104. Second reading and ref tried to the
Legal Committee, 139. Reported, 162. House in Committee on ; third read-
ing, 182. R. A, 188. (61 Vic. c. 12.)

VI. INDEX.

2. Petition respecting, 92.
ALGONQUIN PARK :

1. Motion proposed and negatived to reduce estimate for expenses of, 152.

2. Order in Council presented, resale of jewellery, etc. in, 153. (Sessional Papers No.

51.) Not printed.

AMABEL, TOWNSHIP OF :

Petition for Act respecting the Railway Debenture Debt of, 22. Reported, 43.
Bill (No. 20), introduced and referred, 44. Reported, 65. Second reading, 81
House goes into Committee on, 98. Third reading, 162. R. A., 188. (61 Vic.
c. 37.)

ARBITRATION, (Dominion and the Provinces') : — See Accounts.

ASSESSMENT LAW :

1. Bill (No. 48), introduced to amend, 53. Second reading and referred to the

Municipal Committee, 102. Reported, 162.

2. Bill (No. 59), introduced to amend, 71. Second reading and referred to the

Municipal Committee, 115.

3. Bill (No. 97), introduced to amend, 130.

4. Bill (No. Ill), introduced " The Assessment Amendment Act, 1898," 162.

Second reading ; House goes into Committee on ; third reading, 174. R. A.,
188. (61 Vic. c. 25.)

5. Petitions respecting, 14, 40, 55, 60, 69, 74, 137, 141.

ASYLUMS :

1. Report presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 10.) Printed.

2. Petition respecting admission of persons upon certificate, 32.

T> AKE SHOPS :

Petition re regulation of hours of labour in, 60.

BARRIE, ROYAL VICTORIA HOSPITAL :

Order in Council ratified, granting aid to, 131.

BAY OP QUINT E RAILWAY:

Resolution ratified, granting aid to, 163.

INDEX. vii.

BEE-KEEPERS' ASSOCIATION :

Report presented, 140. (Sessional Papers No. 21.) Printed.
BERLIN ORPHANAGE :

Order in Council ratified, granting aid to, 132.
BERLIN, TOWN OF :

Petitions for Act to validate By-law No. 586, of the, 32, 69. Reported, 65. Bill
(No. 35), introduced and referred, 67. Reported, 95. Second reading, 115.
House goes into Committee on, 126. Third reading, 131. R. A., 188. (61 Vic.
c. 38.)

BILLS :

1. Referred to Commissioners of Estate Bills, 90. Reported, 101.

2. Reported, titles amended, 117.

3. Referred to Committee for further consideration, 109.

4. Passed with unusual speed, 176, 184.

5. Royal Assent withheld, 188.
BIRTHS, MARRIAGES AND DEATHS:

Report of Registrar presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 29.) Printed.
BLIND INSTITUTE :

Report presented, 38. (Sessional Papers No. 14.) Printed.
BUDGET : — See Financial Statement. Supply.
BUTTER AND CHEESE ASSOCIATIONS :

Report presented, 141. (Sessional Papers No. 24-) Printed. See Cheese.

/CANADIAN CONSOLIDATED COPPER AND NICKEL OO'Y :
\J

Petition for Act of incorporation, 22. Reported, 42. Bill (No. 10), introduced and
referred, 44. Reported, 60. Second reading, 81. House goes into Committee
on, 97. Third reading, 142. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 67.)

CANADIAN NIAGARA POWER CO'Y :

1 . Return ordered, of copy of agreement between ; the Queen Victoria Niagara Falls
Park Commissioners and the Niagara Falls Electric Railway Company, 80.
Presented, 127. (Sessional Papers No. 4$-) Not printed.

viii. INDEX.

2. Motion proposed and withdrawn, re refusal of the Government to grant an exten-

sion of franchise to, etc., 183.

3. Petition re discharge of waters of, 128.

CEMETERIES :

Bill (No. 99), introduced respecting, 130. Second reading and referred to the Legal
Committee, 157. Reported, 162. House goes into Committee on ; third reacU
ing, 182. K. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 21.)

CHARITY AID ACT :

Orders in Council ratified, granting aid to :

1. Barrie Royal Victoria Hospital, 181.

2. Berlin, Orphanage, 132.

3. Cornwall, Hotel Dieu Hospital, 131.

4. Gravenhurst) Sanatarium for Consumptives, 132.

5. Rat Portage, General Hospital, 131.

6. Sudbury, St. Joseph's Hospital, 132.

CHATHAM CITY AND SUBURBAN RAILWAY CO'Y :

Petition for Act respecting, 13. Reported, 85. Bill (No. 15), introduced and re-
ferred, 87. Reported, 111. Second reading, 118. House goes into Oommittee
on, 140. Third reading, 142. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 59.)

CHEESE :

Bill (No. 108), introduced respecting disputes concerned with the purchase and tale
of, 154. Second reading, 179.

CHILDREN :

1. Report presented, 161. (Sessional Papers No. 16.) Printed.

2. Reported presented, re immigration of British children, 161. (Sessional Papers

No. 60) Printed.

3. Petitions respectiDg, 128, 154.

CIVIL SERVANTS, SALARIES : — See Public Service.
COBOUR&, TOWN OF :

Petition for Act respecting the consolidated debt of, 1 3. Reported, 43. Bill (No.
25), introduced and referred, 44. Reported, 60. Second reading, 81. House
goes into Committee on, 97. Third reading, 142. R. A, 188. (61 Vic. c. 39.)

IXDEX.

COLLINGWOOD, TOWN OP :

Petition for Act to confirm a certain By-law, 32. Reported, 43. Bill (No. 39),
introduced and referred, 67. Reported, 111. Second reading, 118. House
goes into Committee on, 140. Third reading, 173. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 40.)

COLONIZATION ROADS :

1. Motion proposed and negatived, re expenditure of moneys voted for, 76.

2. Return presented, to an Order of the House of the Session of 1897, for a Return

shewing expenditure on, etc., 102. (Sessional Papers No. 44-) Not printed.

COMMITTEES :

1. Resolution re appointment of, 5.

2. Striking Committee appointed, 24. Report, 34.

CORNWALL, HOTEL DIEU HOSPITAL :

Order in Council ratified, granting aid to, 131.

CORNWALL INTERNATIONAL RAILWAY BRIDGE : — See Ottawa and New York Railway.
Railway Aid.

CORONERS :

Bill (No. 66), introduced respecting, 76. Order for Second reading dis harged, 168.

COUNTY COUNCIL ACT :

Petition respecting, 128.

COUNTY COUNCIL ELECTIONS :

Bill (No. 62), introduced respecting, 75. Second reading and referred to the Muni-
cipal Committee, 97. Reported, 161. See Municipal Law.

COUNTY CROWN ATTORNEYS :

Bill (No. 109), introduced to amend the Act relating to, 154. Second reading, 169.
House goes into Committee on ; third reading, 173. R. A., 1 88. (61 Yic. c. 16.)

COURTS AND COURT FUNDS :

1. Bill (No. 103), introduced respecting the investment of Court Funds, 135. Second

reading, 139. House goes into Committee on; third reading, 160. R. A,
188. (61 Vic. c. 7.)

2. Return presented, to an Order of the House of the Session of 1897, for a Return

shewing the business done in the several Courts, 169. (Sessional Papers No. 63.)
Not printed.

CROWN :

Bill (No. 51), introduced respecting the attachment of moneys in the hands of, 56.
Second reading and referred to the Legal Committee, 96. No report. See
Public Service.

CROWN LANDS :

Report presented, 161. (Sessional Papers No. 4-) Printed.

X. INDEX.

y\EAF AND PUMB INSTITUTE :

Report presented, 38. (Sessional Papers No. 15.) Printed.

DEATHS, REGISTRATION OP :

1. Bill (No. 63), introduced respecting, 75. Second reading and referred to the

Legal Oommittee, 97. No report.

2. Petition respecting, 103.

DEPARTMENTAL STORES :

1. Bill (No. 55), introduced to regulate, 61. Debate on Second reading adjourned

115. Debate resumed and Bill withdrawn, 133.

2. Petitions respecting, 40, 70, 92, 104, 134.

DITCHES AND WATERCOURSES ACT :

Bill (No. 87), introduced to amend, 111. Second reading and referred to Municipal
Committee, 139. No report.

DIVISION COURTS :

1. Bill (No. 70), introduced relating to Judgment Summonses and other matters, 88.

Second reading, 106. House goes into Oommittee #nt 138, 166, 175. Third
reading; title amended, 175 6. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 15.)

2. Report of Inspector presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 6.) Printed.
DRUGGISTS : — See Patent Medicines.

TjlDUCATION :

1. Bill (No. 107), introduced to amend the High School Act, 154. Second reading,
157. House goes into Oommittee on, 169. Third reading, 176. R. A., 188,
(61 Vic. c. 34.)

% Motion proposed and negatived, to reduce estimate for salary of Director of
Teachers' Institutes and Departmental Examinations, 147.

3. Motion proposed and negatived, as to remodelling the sphere of Public Schools,

and as to appointment of Advisory Oouncil, etc , 179.

4. Report of Minister presented, 61. (Sessional Papers No. 1.) Printed.

5. Report on Examinations presented, 73. (Sessional Papers No. 1.) Printed as

as Appendix to Minister's Report.

6. Report of Commission presented, appointed to enquire into price of school books,

etc., 174. (Sessional Papers No. 64.) Printed.

7. Petitions re maintenance of County Pupils, 28, 32, 51, 62, 69, 103, 128.

INDEX. XI.

ELECTIONS AND ELECTION LAW :

1. Bill (No. 71), introduced respeoting, 88. Second reading, 102. House goes into

Committee on, 112, 137, 175. Third reading, 175. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 5.)

2. Notification of resignation of member, 2.

ENGLEDUE SYNDICATE : — See Mines and Mining.

ENTOMOLOGY :

Report presented, 140. (Sessional Papers No. 20.) Printed.

ESTATE BILLS :

Referred to Commissioners, 67. Reported, 101.

ESTIMATES :

Presented and referred, 45, 71, 157. (Sessional Papers No. 3.} Printed. See

Supply.

Tj^ACTORIES :

Report of Inspectors presented, 141. (Sessional Papers No. 27.) Printed.
FARMERS' INSTITUTES :

RQport of Superintendent presented, lil. (Sessional Papers No. 26.} Printed.

FEEDING STUFFS, CONCENTRATED :

Bill (No. 101), introduced to regulate the sale and analysis of, 135.

FINANCIAL STATEMENT :

Delivered and Debate on adjourned, 53, 57, 61. Motion carried, 68.

FORESTRY AND FOREST RESERVES :

1. Bill (No. 54), introduced to establish Forest Reserves, 61. Second reading, 93.

House goes into Committee on, 105. Third reading, 154. R. A., 188. (61
Vic. c. 10.) See Timber.

2. Report of Commissioners presented, 109. (Sessional Papers No. 45>) Printed.

3. Report of Clerk presented, 153. (Sessional Papers No. 84.) Printed.

Xli. INDEX.

FBUB SHEBANDOWAN GOLD MINING OO'Y., LTD. :

Petition for Act respecting the Shebandowan Mining Company and to incorporate the,
32. Reported, 43. Bill (No. 2), introduced and referred, 44. Reported, 60.
Second reading, 81. House goes into Committee on, 114. Third reading, 142.
R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 70.)

FRUIT EXPERIMENTAL STATIONS :

Report presented, 140. (Sessional Papers No. 19.) Printed.

FRUIT GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS :

Report presented, 140. (Sessional Papers No. 18.) Printed. See Spraying..

AMBLTNG AND GAMES OF CHANCE : See Agricultural Exhibitions.

GAME AND GAME LAW :

1. Bill (No. 64), introduced to amend the Act, 75. Order for second reading dis-

charged, 98.

2. Bill (No. 75), introduced to amend the Act, 101. Order for second reading dis-

charged, 115.

3. Report of Commission presented, HI. (Sessional Papers No. 30.) Printed.
GAOLS, PRISONS AND REFORMATORIES :

1. Bill (No. 82), introduced respecting Gaols, 105. Second reading, 118. House

goes into Committee on, 142. Third reading, 160. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 36.)

2. Report presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 11.) Printed.
GENERAL ROAD COMPANIES ACT :

Bill (No. 46), introduced to amend, 45. Second reading and referred to the Munici-
pal Committee, 139. No report.

GODERICH, TOWN OF :

Petition for Act respecting, 91. Reported, 95. Bill (No. 44), introduced and
referred, 96. Reported, 111. Second reading, 118. House goes into Commit-
tee on, 140. Third reading, 154. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 41.)

GRAND TRUNK AND MIDLAND : — See Midland.
GRAND TRUNK AND SARNIA : — See Sarnia.
GRANT, C. C. :

Return ordered, of correspondence, in reference to case of, 56. (Not brought down.

Xlll.

GRAVENHURST SANITARIUM :

Order in Council ratified, granting aid to, 132.
GREY, ALMA AND McKiLLOP, TOWNSHIPS OF :

, Petition for Act respecting certain by-laws concerning drainage in, 13. Reported,
63. Bill (No. 11), introduced and referred, 66. Reported, 86. Second read-
ing, 97. House goes into Committee on, 153. Third reading, 167. R. A., 188.
(61 Vic. c. 42.)

GUARDIAN AD LITEM :

Account of presented, 169. (Sessional Papers No. 61.) Not printed.

TTAMILTON CATARACT POWER COT. :

Petition for Act respecting, 78. Reported, 100. Bill (No. 42), introduced and
referred, 101. Reported, 129. Second reading, 139. House goes into Com-
mittee on, 153. Third reading, 160. R. A,, 188. (61 Vic. c. 68.)

HAMILTON CITY HOSPITAL :

Petition for Act Delating to, 79. Reported, 85. Bill (No. 27), introduced and refer
red, 87. Reported, 95. Second reading, 115. House goes into Committee on,
126. Third reading, 137. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 43.)

HAMILTON AND DUNDAS STREET RAILWAY OO'Y :

Petition for Act respecting, 13. Reported, 52. Bill (No. 9), introduced and referred,
53. Reported, 75. Second reading, 81. House goes into Committee on, 98.
Third reading, 137. R. A., 188. (61 Vio. c. 60.)

HAMILTON RADIAL ELECTRIC RAILWAY OO'Y :

Petition for Act to amend Act of incorporation, 79. (Not proceeded with.}
HAMILTON STEAMBOAT CO'Y :

Reported withdrawn ; fees remitted, 64.
HAYS, G. O. :

Motion for return of oorrespondence relating to claim of, to being first discoverer o
gold in Marmora ; negatived, 127.

HEALTH :

Report presented, 141. (Sessional Papers No. 85.) Printed.
HOSPITALS :

Report presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. IS.) Printed.

XIV. INDEX.

HOUSE, THE :

1. Sits after midnight, 68, 152.

2. Adjourns over Christmas holidays,

3. Government business to have precedence, etc,, 88.

4. To have two Sittings, 135,

HOUSES OF REFUGE :

4. Report presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 12.) Printed.
2. Petition re compulsory erection of, 29.

HUMBER PIGGERY :

Return ordered, showing value of hogs that died or were slaughtered at, 4$
Presented, 61. (Sessional Papers No. 41*) Not printed.

HUNTSVILLE, VILLAGE OF :

Petition for Act respecting, 22. Reported, 63. Bill (No. 18), introduced and
referred, 67. Reported, 87. Second reading, 97. House goes into Committee,
on, 114.* Third reading, 131. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. «. 44.)

TMMIGRATION :

Report presented, 169. (Sessional Papers No. 5.} Printed. See Children.
INDUSTRIES :

Report of Bureau presented, 141. (Sessional Papers No. 82.) Printed.
INGERSOLL, TOWN OF :

Petition for Act to consolidate By-law No. 479 of the, 32. Reported, 64. Bill (No.
32), introduced and referred, 66. Reported, 95. Second reading 114. House
goes into Committee on, 126, 167. Third reading, 167. R. A., 188. (61 Vic.
c. 45.)

INSURANCE :

Report presented, 38, (Sessional Papers No. 9.) Printed.

IETERNATIONAL RAILWAY BRIDGE, CORNWALL . — See Ottawa and New York Railway.
Railway Aid.

IRONDALE, BANCROFT AND OTTAWA RAILWAY :
Resolutions ratified, granting aid to, 163.

INDEX.

TAMES' BAY RAILWAY :

Resolution ratified, granting aid to, 164.
JUDGMENT SUMMONSES : — See Division Courts.

JURORS' ACT :

1. Bill (No. 72), introduced to amend, 93. (Not proceeded with.}

2. Petitions respecting, 40, 55, 91, 170.
JUSTICES OF THE PEACE :

Bill introduced proforma, 5.

INGSTON ASYLUM :

Motion proposed and negatived re reduction of appropriation for farm feed and
fodder, 149.

KINGSTON, PORTSMOUTH AND CATARAQUI ELECTRIC RAILWAY CO'Y :

Petition for Act respecting, 13. Reported, 42. Bill (No. 24), introduced and
referred, 44. Reported, 95. Second reading, 114. House goes into Committee
on, 126. Third reading, 142. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 61.)

T EGAL COMMITTEE:

Resolution for appointment, 5, 34. Report, 162.

LEGAL OFFICES :

Report presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 28} Printed.

LEGISLATION :

Motion proposed and negatived, re reduction of estimate for Sessional Clerks, 146.
LIBRARY :

Committee appointed, 24. No report.
LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR :

1. Speech at opening, 3.

2. To be taken into consideration, 5.

XVI. INDEX.

3. Motion for Address in reply and Debate on adjourned, 7, 10, 15, 24. Amend-

ment proposed re manufacture of timber, and Debate on adjourned, 24, 29
Amendment to amendment proposed and carried, 36.

4. Address amended and ordered to be presented, 37.

5. Messages from,

Transmitting Estitn&tes, 45, 71, 157.

6. Recommends certain resolutions involving the expenditure of public moneys, 105,

163, 165, 167.

7. Assents to Bills, 188.

8. Withholds assent. 188.

9. Speech at close of Session, 189.
LIQUOR LICENSE LAW :

1. Report presented, on working of Acts, 158. (Sessional Papers No. ?,} Printed.

2. Petitions for amendments re sale of Patent Medicines, 14, 18, 23, 24, 28, 29, 34,

42, etc. See Patent Medicines.

3. Petitions for amendments re hours of sale of liquor where license in force, 15, 18,

22, 23, 28, 33, 42, 48, etc.

LIVE STOCK ASSOCIATIONS :

Report presented, 141. (Sessional Papers No. 25.) Printed.

LOAN CORPORATIONS :

Report presented, 141. (Sessional Papers No. 36.) Printed.
LONDON ASYLUM :

Motion proposed and negatived, re reduction of estimate for farm feed and fodder,
148.

LONDON, CITY OF :

Petition for Act respecting, 32. Reported, 64 Bill (No. 3), introduced and
referred, 67. Reported, 95. Second reading, 114. House goes into Com-
mittee on, 126, 155. Third readisg, 155. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 46.)

LORETTO LADIES' COLLEGE :

Petition for Act to amend Act of incorporation, 79. Reported, 86. Bill (No. 43),
introduced and referred, 87. Reported; fees remitted, 101. Second reading,
115. House goes into Committee on, 126 Third reading, 131. R. A., 188.
(61 Vic. c. 75.)

LUMBER, MANUFACTURE OF : See Lieutenant-Governor. Timber.

INDEX.

yTANHOOD SUFFRAGE REGISTRATION ACT :

Bill (No. 79), introduced to amend, 102. Second reading, 136. House goes into
Committee on, 138, 166, 176. Resolution introduced; Lieutenant Governor's
recommendation signified ; passed through Committee and referred to Bill,
165-6. Third reading, 176. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 4.)

MANVERS TOWNSHIP OF :

Copy of Papers ordered, re audit of accounts of, etc., 68. Presented, 127. (Ses-
sional Papers No. 4@>) Not printed.

MARRIED WOMEN :

Petition to extend the municipal franchise to, 134.

MATERNITY BOARDING HOUSES :

Bill (No. 84), introduced respecting, and the protection of infant children, 105.
Second reading, 118. House goes into Committee on, 132. Third reading, 135.
R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 32)

MEMBERS :

1. Notification of resignation of, 2.

2. Sessional indemnity paid to, absent on account of illness, 175.
MIDLAND, TOWN OF :

Petition for Act respecting an agreement with the Grand Trunk Railway, 40.
Reported, 63. Bill (No. 8), introduced and referred, 67. Reported, 86.
Second reading, 97. House goes into Committee on, 114, 142. Third reading
173. R. A, 188. (61 Vic. c. 47.)

MINES AND MINING :

1. Bill (No. 53), introduced respecting mining claims, 60. Second reading, 114.

House goes into Committee on, 118, 175. Third reading, 175. R. A., 188.
(61 Viet. c. 11.)

2. Report of Bureau of, presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 33.) Printed.

3. Return ordered, of correspondence, re mining coneassions similar to Engledue

Syndicate, etc., 48. Presented, 127. (Sessional Papers No. 47.) Not printed.

4. Return ordered, of correspondence, re operations of Engledue Syndicate, 163.

Presented, 183. (Sessional Papers No. 66.) Printed.

MISCELLANEOUS EXPENDITURE :

Motion proposed and negatived, to reduce estimate for, re Arbitration and Algon-
quin Park expenses, 152.

2* J.

xviii. INDEX.

MOORE LUMBER OO'Y :

Return ordered, of correspondence, relating to dealings of, with the Government, etc.,
80. Presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 59.) Not printed.

MOSQROVB, JUDGE :

Order in Council presented, re payment to, 38. (Sessional Papers No, 39.) Not
printed.

MOTIONS :

Mr. Speaker decides point of order re seconder of, 45.

MUNICIPAL ACCOUNTS :

Bill (No. 49), introduced for the better auditing of, 53. Second reading and
referred to the Municipal Committee, 80. Reported, 161. See Municipal Law*

MUNICIPAL AUDITOR :

Report of presented, 94. (Sessional Papers No 4$>) Printed.

MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS, 1898 :

Bill (No. 113), introduced relating to certain, 176. Second and third readings, 176.
R. A., 188. (61 Yic. c. 24.)

MUNICIPAL LAW :

1. Bill (No. 50), introduced to amend, 53. Second reading and referred to the

Municipal Committee, 96. Reported, 161.

2. Bill (No. 52), introduced to amend, 56. Order for second reading discharged, 98.

3. Bill (No. 56), introduced to amend, 67. Order for second reading discharged, 98.

4. Bill (No. 67), introduced to amend, 80. Second reading and referred to the

Municipal Committee, 102. Reported, 161.

•

5. Bill (No. 74), introduced to amend, 96. Second reading and referred to the

Municipal Committee, 115. Reported, 161.

6. Bill (No. 77), introduced to amend, 102. Second reading and referred to the

Municipal Committee, 115.

7. Bill (No. 78), introduced to amend, 102.

8. Bill (No. 88), introduced to amend, 111. Second reading and referred to the

Municipal Committee, 139. Reported, 161.

9. Bill (No. 89), introduced to amend, 111. Second reading and referred to the

Municipal Committee, 139,

10. Bill (No. 90), introduced to amend, 111. Second reading and referred to the
Municipal Committee, 139.

INDEX. XIX.

11. Bill (No. 95), introduced to amend, 118.

12. Bill (No. 98), introduced to amend, 130.

13. Bill (No. 100), introduced to amend, 135. Second reading and referred to the

Legal Committee, 169.

14. Bill (No. 110), introduced "The Municipal Amendment Act, 1898," 162.

Second reading; House goes into Committee on ; third reading, 1734. R. A.>,
188. (61 Vic. c. 23.)

15. Committee to be appointed, 5, 36. Report, 135, 161, 162.

16. Petitions respecting, 40, 70, 91, 99, 104, 128, 124, 154.

MUNICIPAL WATER WORKS ACT :

1. Bill (No. 94), introduced to amend, 117. Second reading, 157. House goes into.

Committee on, 167. Third reading, 173. R. A, 188. (61 Vic. c. 28.)

2. Bill (No. 69), introduced to amend, 130. •
MUTUAL CYCLONE INSURANCE COY'S :

Petitions for legislation, authorizing the establishment of, 103.

T^IAGARA PALLS AND RAPIDS:

Motion re development of,- etc. ; withdrawn, 183.

NIAGARA, SYNOD OF DIOCESE OF :

Petition for Act respecting, 14. Reported, 43. Bill (No. 21), introduced and
referred, 44. Reported, 95. Second reading, 114. House goes into Com-
mittee on, 157. Third reading, 160. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 72.)

NORTH BAY, TOWN OP :

Petition for Act to consolidate the floating debt of, 14. Reported, 52. Bill (No. 1),
introduced and referred, 53. Reported, 75. Second reading, 81. House goes
into Committee on, 98. Third reading, 142. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 48.)

FFICIAL GUARDIAN AD LITEM :

Account of presented, 169. (Sessional Papers No. 61.) Not printed.
ONTARIO COMPANIES' ACT :

Bill (No. 76), introduced to amend, 102. Second reading, 118. House goes into
Committee on, 136, 142. Third reading, 176, R. A, 188. (61 Vic. c. 18.)

XX. INDEX.

ONTARIO LAND SURVEYORS :

Bill No. (102), introduced to amend the Act respecting the Association of, 135.
Second reading, 138. House goes into Committee on, 142. Third reading,
160. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 18.)

•ONTARIO AND RAINY RIVER RAILWAY :

Resolution ratified, granting aid to, 163.
ORDINARY EXPENDITURE :

Motion proposed and negatived, re increase of, 178.
OTTAWA, CITY OP :

Petition for Act respecting, 14. Reported, 43. Bill (No. 13), introduced and
referred, 44. Reported, 60. Second reading, 80. House goes into Committee
on, 97. Third reading, 130. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 49.)

OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY :

Resolution introduced granting aid to International Railway Bridge on, at or near
Cornwall, 160. House goes into Committee on ; Lieutenant-Governor's recom-
mendation signified and referred to Railway Aid Bill, 167-8. See Railway Aid.

OTTAWA PRESBYTERIAN COLLEGE :

Petition for Act of incorporation, 69. Reported, 84. Bill (No. 22), introduced
and referred, 87. Reported; fees remitted, 95 Second reading, 115. House
goes into Committee on, 126. Third reading, 160 R A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 74.)

OTTAWA STOCK EXCHANGE :

Petition for Act of incorporation, 17. Reported, 42. Bill (No. 31), introduced and
referred, 44. Reported, 79 Second reaiing, 97. House goes into Committee
on, 114. Third reading, 137. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 69.)

OTTAWA, SYNOD OF DIOCESE OF :

Petition for Act respecting, 14. Reported, 42. Bill (No. 6), introduced and referred,
45. Reported; fees remitted, 60. Second reading, 71. House goes into
Committee on, 81. Third reading, 130. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 73.)

T>ARLTAMENT BUILDINGS, NEW :

Motion proposed and negatived, to reduce estimate for fue), 151.
PATENT AND OTHER MEDICINES :

1. Bill (No. 80), introduced respecting fche sale of, 102. Second reading, 106.
House goes into Committee on, 112, 138, 155. Third reading, 155. R. A.,
withheld, 188.

INDEX.

2. Bill (No. 115), introduced respecting the sale of, 184. Second reading; House*

goes into Oommittee on ; third reading, 184. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 30.)

3. Petitions respecting, 14, 18, 23, 24, 28, 29, 34, 42, 48, 61, etc.

PEMBROKE SOUTHERN RAILWAY :

Resolution ratified, granting aid to, 163.

PENETANGUISHENE REFORMATORY :

Motion proposed and negatived, to reduce estimate for salary of warden, etc., 15CL
PINE CUT ON THE CROWN DOMAIN : — See Timber.

POLICE MAGISTRATES :

Petition re extension of Commissions of, to whole county or union of counties, 110,,

i
POULTRY ASSOCIATIONS:

Report presents d, 140. (Sessional Papers No. 22.} Printed.

PRINTING :

1. Oommittee to be appointed, 5, 35.

2. Report, 66, 129, 170, 184.

3. Recommend that the several Reports of the Toronto University be printed under

one cover, 66.

4. Recommend the purchase of certain publications, 66, 130.

5. Recommend the printing of an extra number of papers, 130, 173.
PRIVATE BILLS :

1. Oommittee to be appointed, 5, 35.

2. Report, 60, 65, 74, 79, 86, 95, 100, 111, 117, 129, 134.

3. Recommend extension of time, 60, 65, 87, 95. 117, 129, 135.

PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS :

Committee to be appointed, 5, 35. No report*

PROVINCIAL INDEBTEDNESS :

Motion proposed and negatived, regretting that the present value of, for Annuities
and Railway Certificates does not appear in the statement of liabilities of
Province, nor in the Public Accounts, 112.

xxii. INDEX.

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS :

1. Committee to be appointed, 5, 34.

2. Report, 79, 175. (Appendix No 1.)

3. Public Accounts presented, for 10 months, and for the year 1<B97, 37, 140. Re-

ferred to Committee, 36. (Sessional Papers No. £.) Printed.

4. Motion proposed and negatived, re non-appearance in, of Provincial Indebtedness

for Railway Certificates, 112.

PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS :

1. Motion proposed and negatived, re purchase of supplies for, by Tender, 107-8.

2. Motion proposed and negatived, re salary of third Inspector of, 145.

PUBLIC LIBRARIES :

Bill (No. 69), introduced respecting, in Police Villages, 88. Second reading and
referred to the Municipal Committee, 115. Reported, 135. House goes into
Committee on, 138. Third reading, 142. R. A,, 188. (61 Vic. c. 27.)

PUBLIC SERVICE, ONTARIO :

1. Bill (No. 83), introduced to amend the Act respecting, 105. Second reading, 118.

House goes into Committee on, 132. Third reading, 154 R. A., 188. (61
Vic. c. 6.)

2. Bill (No. 104), introduced to provide for the garnishment of the Salaries of Civil

Servants, 137. Second reading, 157. House goes into Committee on; third
reading, 167. R, A., 188.. (61 Vic. c. 7.)

PUBLIC WORKS :

Report presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 8.) Printed.
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT :

Motion proposed and negatived, to reduce estimate for expenses o?, 143.

,/-\UEEN, HER MAJESTY THE :

Address to, on the occasion of Her Diamond Jubilee, acknowledge per Governor-
General's Secretary, 3.

<QUEEN VICTORIA NIAGARA FALLS PARK :

1. Return ordered, of copy of agreement between Commissioners of the Niagara

Falls Electric Railway Company and the Canadian Niagara Power Company,
80. Presented, 127. (Sessional Papers No. .£#.) Not printed. See Niagara
Falls and Rapids.

2. Report of Commissioners presented, 174. (Sessional Papers No. 31.) Printed.

INDEX. xxiii.

T>AILWAYS AND RAILWAY AID:

1. Resolutions introduced granting aid to certain railways and to International
Railway Bridge at or near Cornwall, 155, 160. House goes into Committee on ;
Lieutenant- Governor's recommendation signified ; passed through Committee
and referred to Bill, 163-5, 167-8. Bill (tfo. 112), introduced respecting aid" to,
169. Second reading, 174. House goes into Committee on, 177. Third read-
ing ; amendment negatived, 178. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 22.)

2 Amendment proposed re nationality of employes, and time of residence, superseded
by amendment, 178.

3. Committee to be appointed, 5, 35.

4. Report, 101, 104, 110, 117, 129, 135, 142
RAT PORTAGE, GENERAL HOSPITAL :

Order in Council ratified, granting aid to, 131.

RAT PORTAGE, TOWN OF :

Petition for Act respecting By-law No. 205, of the, 14. Reported, 52. Bill (No.
23), introduced and referred, 53. Reported, 75. Second reading, 81. House
goes into Committee on, 98. Third reading, 160. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 50.)

REFUGE, HOUSES OF :

Report presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 12.) Printed.
REGISTRARS :

Return presented of fees, etc., 159. (Sessional Papers No. 57.) Printed.
RIGGS, LEWIS FREDERICK :

Petition for Act to authorize him to practise dentistry, 47. Reported, 99. Bill
(No. 36), introduced and referred, 101. Reported; title amended, 117.
Second reading, 139. House goes into Committee on, 153. Third reading, 155.
R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 78.)

ROADS AND ROAD MAKING :

1. Bill (No. 105), introduced respecting roads in unincorporated townships, 137.
Second reading and referred to the Legal Committee, 157. Reported, 162.
House goes into Committee on ; third reading, 182. R. A., 188. (61 Vic.
c. 26).

Report of Instructor in presented, 140. (Sessional Papers No. 23.) Printed.
RONDEAU PARK :

Order in Council presented, re taking of water fowl, 153. (Sessional Papers No. 50.)
Not printed.

Xxiv. INDEX.

T. JOSEPH, SISTERS OF :

Petition for Act respecting, 40. Reported, 52. Bill (No. 16), introduced and
referred, 53. Reported ; fees remitted, 75. Second reading, 81. House goes
into Committee on, 114. Third reading, 137. R. A , 188. (61 Yic. c. 76.)

ST. THOMAS AND ST. THOMAS STREET RAILWAY OO'Y :

Petition for Act respecting, 17. Reported, 52. Bill (No. 26), introduced and
referred, 66. Reported, 9f. Second reading, 114. House goes into Com-
mittee on, 126. Third reading, 131. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 51.)

SALARIES, GARNISHMENT OF : — See Public Service.

SANDWICH, WINDSOR AND AMHERSTBDRQ RAILWAY CO'Y. :

Petition for Act respecting, 28. Reported 64. Bill (No. 30), introduced and
referred, 67. Reported, 111. Second reading, 118. House goes into Com-
mittee on, 140. Third reading, 142. R. A, 188. (61 Vic. c. 62.)

SAN JOSE SCALE :

Bill (No. 47), introduced to prevent the spread of, 45. Resolution introduced,
Lieutenant- Governor's recommendation signified ; passed through Committee
and referred to Bill, 102, 105-6. Second reading, 102. House goes into Com-
mittee on, 111. Third reading, 135. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c 33.)

SARNIA, TOWN OF :

Petition for Act to confirm an agreement between the Grand Trunk Railway
Company ; the St. Olair Tunnel Company and the town, 40. Reported, 63.
Bill (No. 7), introduced and referred, 67. Reported, 87. Second reading, 97.
House goes into Committee OD, 114. Third reading, 142. R. A., 188. (61
Vic. c. 52.)

SAW LOGS, MANUFACTURE OF : — See Timber.
SECONDER OF MOTIONS :

Mr. Speaker decides point of order, 45.
SEEDS :

Petition re appointment of Inspector of, 33.
SECRETARY AND REGISTRAR :

1. Motion proposed and negatived, to reduce estimate of expenses of office of, 144*.

2. Report presented, 159. (Sessional Papers No. 56.) Printed.
SESSIONAL CLERKS :

Motion proposed and negatived, to reduce estimate for, 146.

INDEX.

SHEBANDOWAN MINING OO'Y. : — See Frue Shebandowan Mining Co.

SIMCOE, COUNTY OF :

-Petition for Act respecting, 79. Reported, 95. Bill (No. 28), introduced and
referred, 96. Referred, 111. Second reading, 118. House goes into Com-
mittee on, 140. Third reading, 155. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 64.)

SMITH'S FALLS, RIDEAU AND SOUTHERN RAILWAY CO'Y. :

Petition for Act of incorporation, 14. Reported, 42. Bill (No. 12), introduced and.
referred, 44. Reported, 104. Second reading, 115. House goes into Com-
mittee on, 140. Third reading, 132. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 63.)

SPEAKER, MR. :

1. Announces resignation of member, 2.

2. Informs the House of communication acknowledging Address to Her Majesty, 3.

3. Reports that he had obtained copy of speech, 5.

4. That Report had been received from Commissioners of Estate Bills, 90.

5. Reads messages from Lieutenant-Governor transmitting estimates, 45, 71, 157.

6. Decides point of order, 45.

7. Presents Supply Bill to Lieu tenant- Governor, 188.

SPEECH : — See Lieutenant- Governor.
SPRAYING :

Report of superintendent presented, 141. (Sessional Papers No. 49 ) Printed.
STANDING ORDERS :

1. Committee to be appointed, 5, 35.

2. Report, 42, 51, 52, 63,' 64, 65, 84, 85, 86, 95, 99, 100.

3. Recommends suspension of rules on account of early Session, 44, 52, 65.

4. Recommends extension of time, 64, 85, 95.

STATUTES AND STATUTE LAW :

1. Bill (No. 92), introduced respecting R. S. O. 1897, 117. Second reading, 136.

House goes into Committee on; third reading, 137. R. A., 188. (61 Vic
c. 2.)

2. Report of Commissioners presented, 89. (Sessional Papers No. 42.) Not

printed.

XXVI. INDEX.

STISTED, TOWNSHIP OF :

Return ordered, of correspondence in reference to lot 13, con. 3, of the, 80. Pres-
ented. 159. (Sessional Papers No. 58.) Not printed.

jSTRATHROY AND WESTERN COUNTIES RAILWAY Co'Y. :

Petition for Act to amend Act of incorporation, 50. Reported, 85. Bill (No. 37),
introduced and referred, 87. Reported, 104. Second reading, 115. House
goes into Committee on, 140. Third reading, 142. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 64.)

STUBBS, RICHARD :

Petition for Act respecting the estate dt the late, 22 ^Reported, 65. Bill (No. 17),
introduced and referred to Commissioners of Estate Bills, 67. Reported and
referred to Committee on Private Bills, 90. Reported, 101. Again referred,
109. Reported, 134., Second reading, 139. House goes into Committee on,
153. Third reading, 160. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 79.)

SUDBURY, ST. JJSEPH'S HOSPITAL :

Order in Council ratified, granting aid to, 132.

SULLIVAN, JOHN :

f*"^ Return ordered, shewing payments to, etc., 127. Presented, 159. (Sessional Papers
No, 55.) Not printed.

SUPPLY :

1. .House resolves to go into Committee, 37.

2. Estimates presented and referred, 47, 71, 157. (Sessional Papers No. 3.)

Printed.

3. House goes into Committee, 68, 71, 77, 81, 88, 93, 106, 108, 113, 133, 161,

162, 178. 179.

4. Financial statement delivered, and Debate on adjourned, 53, 57, 61. Motion

carried, C8.

5. Resolutions reported for concurrence, 119, 180.

6. Resolutions agreed to, 126, 181.

7. Amendments proposed and negatived, to the motion " That Mr. Speaker do now

leave the Chair " :

1. Colonization road moneys, expenditure of, 76.

2. Tender system of purchase of supplies for Public Institutions, 107.

3. Provincial Indebtedness re Railway Certificates and Annuities, 112.

4. Re increase in Ordinary Expenditure, 178.

5. Re sphere of Public Schools and appointment of Advisory Council, 179.

INDEX. XXV11.

8. Amendments to the following Resolutions, proposed and negatived :

1. Public Works, Departmental Salaries, 143.

2. Secretary and Registrar's Office, salaries, 144.

3. Public Institutions, salary of third Inspector, 1 45.

4. Legislation, Sessional Clerks, 146.

5. Public and Separate Schools, salaries of Director of Teachers' Institutes,

and for Departmental Examinations, 1 47.

6. London Asylum, farm feed, 148.

7. Kingston Asylum, farm feed, 149.

8. Penetanguishene Reformatory, salaries, etc., 150.

9. New Parliament Buildings, fuel, 151.

10. Miscellaneous expenditure re Arbitration and Algonquin Park, 152.
9. House resolves to go into Committee of Ways and Means, 37.

10. Goes into Committee, 72, 181.

11. Resolutions reported and agreed to, 72, 181.

12. Bill of Supply (No. 114), introduced and read the first, second and third

times, 181. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 1.)

13. Presented and assented to, 188.

SURROGATE COURTS :

Bill (No. 85), introduced to amend the Act, 107. Second reading, 118.
House goes into Committee on, 133. Third reading, 154. R. A. 118.
(61 Vic. c. 14.)

SYDENHAM GLASS CO'Y., LTD.:

Petition for Act respecting, 17. Reported, 52. Bill (No. 14), intro-
duced and referred, 53. Reported, 75. Second reading, 81. House
goes into Committee, on 114. Third reading, 130. R. A., 188. (61
Vic. c. 71.)

mAVERN AND SHOP LICENSES ACTS :

Report presented, 158. (Sessional Papers No. 7.) Printed.
TENDER SYSTEM :

Motion proposed and negatived, re purchase of supplies by, 107-8.

XXV111. INDKX.

TILBURY EAST, TOWNSHIP OF :

Petition for Act re debenture by-laws, 103.
TIMBER :

1. Bill (No. 60), introduced respecting the manufacture of pine cut on the Grown

Domain, 71. Second reading, 157. House goes into Committee on, 166. Third
reading; amendment negatived, 176. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 9.)

2. Amendment proposed to Address re duty and manufacture, and Debate on,

adjourned, 24. Amendment to amendment proposed and carried re measure to
be introduced, 36.

3. Motion withdrawn, re correspondence relating to question of imposing a restric-

tion in licenses, &c., 56.

4. Motion proposed and negatived, re application of manufacturing conditions, 176.

5. Documents presented, re manufacture of, in Canada, 159. (Sessional Papers No*

58.) Printed.

6. Return ordered, of correspondence, in reference to cutting of, in trespass, on "Coffin

Addition," 96. Presented, 159. (Sessional Papers No. 54.) Not printed.

TIMBER SLIDE COMPANIES :

Bill (No. 106), introduced to amend the Act, 142. Second reading, 157. House
goes into Committee on, 166. Third reading, 173. R. A., 188. (61 Vic.,
c. 20.)

TOLL ROADS :

1. Bill (No. 93), introduced to farther facilitate the purchase of by municipalities,

117. Second reading, 136. House goes into Committee on, 156. Third
reading, 160. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 29.)

2. Petition respecting, 104.
TORONTO, CITY OF :

Petition for Act respecting, 47. Reported, 64. Bill (No. 4), introduced and
referred, 67. Reported, 86. Second reading, 97. House goes into committee
on, 114. Third reading, 130. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 54.)

TORONTO JUNCTION, TOWN OF :

Petition for Act respecting, 96. Reported, 100. Bill (No. 45), introduced and
referred, 101. Reported, 134. Second reading. 139. House goes into Com-
mittee on, 157. Third reading, 173. R. A., 188. ^61 Vic. c. 55.)

TORONTO AND SCARBORO ELECTRIC RAILWAY, LIGHT AND POWER CO'Y., LTD.:

Petition for Act to amend Act incorporating, 50. Reported, 85. Bill (No. 40),
introduced and referred, 87. Reported, 117. Second reading, 139. House:
goes into Committee on; third reading, 182. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 65.)

INDEX. XXIX

TORONTO UNIVERSITY :

1. Bill (No. 86), introduced to amend the Act respecting the Federation of, with
• other Universities and Colleges, ,111. Second reading, 136. House goes into

Committee on, 138. Third reading, 154. R.A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 35.)

2. Auditors Report presented, 38. (Sessional Papers, No. 38.) Printed.

3. Report on Finance presented, 73. (Sessional Papers No. 37.) Printed.

4. Printing Committee recommend that all Reports of, be printed and bound under

one cover, 66.

TORONTO AND YORK RADIAL RAILWAY CO.'Y:

Petition for Act of incorporation, 50. Reported, 86. Bill (No. 41), introduced and
referred, 87. Reported, 142. Second reading, 157. House goes into
Committee; third reading, 182. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 66.)

TOWN COUNCILS :

Bill (No, 65), introduced respecting, 75. Second reading and referred to the
Municipal Committee, 97. Reported 161. See Municipal Law.

TRADE RESTRICTIONS :

Petition for removal of, 128.

TRAMPS :

Petition re nuisance of, 60.

TRENTON, TOWN OF :

Petition for Act respecting, 32. Reported, 64. Bill (No. 33), introduced and
referred, 67. Reported, 117. Second reading, 139. House goes into Com-
mittee on, 157. Third reading, 167. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 56.)

PPER CANADA COLLEGE :

Reports of Principal and Bursar's statements for 1896 and 1897 presented, 61.
(Sessional Papers No 4@- ) Not printed.

UNIVERSITY :

Petition for Act to amend Acts relating to, 47. Reported, 65. Bill (No. 38),
introduced and referred, 67. Reported, 86. Second reading, 97. House goes into
Committee on, 114. Third reading, 130. R. A , 188. (61 Vic. c. 77.)

XXX. INDEX.

YOTBR'S LISTS ACT :

1. Bill (No. 68), introduced to amend, 80. Second reading and referred to the
Legal Oommittee, 33. Reported, 162. House goes into Committee on ; third reading,,
182. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 3.)

2. Petition respecting, 91.

7ALKERTON, TOWN OF :

Petition for Act respecting, 14. Reported, 52. Bill (No. 5), introduced and
referred, 53. Reported, 79. Second reading, 97. House goes into Committee on, 114.
Third reading, 130. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 57.)

WATER POWERS:

Bill (No. 58), introduced respecting, 68. Second reading, 93. House goes into
Committee on, 105. Third reading, 130. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 8.)

WATER SUPPLY COMPANIES :

Bill (No. 61), introduced for better defining the relations between, and Municipal
Corporations, 75, Second reading and referred to the Municipal Oommittee, 96. See
Municipal Water Works Act.

WINDSOR WATER WORKS :

Petition for Act respecting, 14. Reported, 52. Bill (No. 29), introduced and
referred, 53. Reported, 86. Second reading, 97. House goes into Oommittee on, 140,
173. Third reading, 173. R. A., 188. (61 Vic. c. 68.)

WOODMAN'S LIEN FOR WAGES ACT :

Bill (No. 91), introduced to amend, 117. Second reading and referred to the Legal
Committee, 139. Reported, 162. House goes into Oommittee on ; third reading, 182.
R, A., 188, (61 Vic. c. 17.)

, COUNTY OF:

Petition for Act to confirm By-law No. 740, of the, 14. Reported, 43. Bill
(No. 19), introduced and referred, 44. Reported withdrawn ; fees remitted, 79.

LIST OF SESSIONAL PAPERS,

PRESENTED TO THE HOUSE DURING THE SESSION.

TITLE.

No.

REMARKS.

Accounts, Public

17
62
65
52
51
10

21
29
14
24

48
16
60
44
63
4

1
1
64
66

47
20
3
1

27
26
45
34
19
18

Printed.
«

Not printed.
Printed,
e
Not printd.
Printed.

Printed.

«
«

Not printed.

Printed.
H

Not printed.
it

Printed.

Not printed.

Printed,
(t

Printed.
<«

u
tt

Agricultural College, Report

Farm Proper

Purchase money . .

Agricultural Experimental Union, Report
Algonquin Park, Sales of jewellery in ...

Asylums, Report

Bee-Keepers' Associations Report . . .

Births, Marriages and Deaths, Report

Blind Institution, Report

Butter and Cheese Associations, Report

Canadian Niagara Power Company, Agreement
Children's Protection Act, Report

Children, British, Immigration of, Report

Colonization Roads, expenditure ... ....

Courts, business done

Crown Lands, Report

Deaf and Dumb Institute, Report . .

Division Courts Report .

Education Report

Examinations, Report (part of)

School Books Report

Engledue Syndicate correspondence

mining concessions

Entomological Society Report

Estimates .

Examinations Report on (part of)

Factories, Report

Farmers' Institutes, Report

Forestry Commission Report

Report on

Fruit Experiment Stations Report .

Fruit Growers' Association, Report . .

XXXI.

XXX11.

INDEX.

TITLE.

No.

REMARKS.

Game and Fisli Commission Report ...

Pri/nted

Gfiols Prisons and Reformatories Report

Guardian ad litem account

Not printed

Health Report

Printed

Hospitals Report . . ...

((

Humber picycrery Cholera in ....

Not printed

Immigration, Report ,....,

Printed,

Industries Report

Insurance Report

cc •

Leo"al Offices Report

Printed

Live Stock Associations Report

Loan Corporations Report

Manvers audit of accounts . •

Not printed.

Mines, Report

Prin ted.

Mining Concessions

Not prinied

Moore Lumber Co

Mosgrove, Judge

Municipal Auditor, Report

4:J)>

Printed

Official Guardian ad litem account

Not printed-

Poultry Associations Report . ...

Printed

Public Accounts ....

Public Works

Queen Victoria Niagara Falls Park Report

Printed

" agreement

Not printed.

Refuge Houses of Report .

Printed

Registrars, fees

Road-making, Report ,

Rondeau Park, water fowl

Not printed

Secretary and Registrar, Report ....

• Printed.

Spraying, Report .

Statutes, Report re Consolidation

Not printed

Stisted, Lot 13 in

53 ,

Sullivan, John, payments to .

Tavern and Shop Licenses, Report . ...

Printed.

Timber, Coffin Addition

Not prin ted

manufacture of .

Printed

Toronto Universitv, Auditors' Report

Finance

Upper Canada College Report

Not printed

INDEX. XXX111.

LIST OF PAPERS ORDERED BUT NOT BROUGHT DOWN.

ARRANGED ALPHABETICALLY.

PAGE

1. Accounts, award of Arbitrators 45

2. Grant, 0. 0., correspondence .« 56

JOURNALS

OF THE

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

OF THE

PROVINCE OF ONTARIO.

Tuesday, 30th November, 1897.

PROCLAMATION.

Canada \

Province of V GEORGE AIREY KIRKPATRIOK. [L.S.]

Ontario. (

VICTORIA, by the Grace of GOD, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland,
QUEEN, Defender of the Faith, &c., &c., &c.

To Our Faithful, the Members elected to serve in the Legislative Assembly of our
Province of Ontario and to every of you — GREETING :

Arthur S. Hardy* ) TfTHEREAS it is expedient for certain causes and considerations
Attorney-General, j VV to convene the Legislative Assembly of our said Province,
WE DO WILL that you and each of you, and all others in this behalf interested, on
TUESDAY, the THIRTIETH day of the Month of NOVEMBER now next, at OUR
CITY OF TORONTO aforesaid, personally be and appear for the DESPATCH OF BUSINESS,
to treat, act, do and conclude upon those things which, in our Legislature of the Province
of Ontario by the Common Council of Our said Province, may by the favour of God be
ordained. HEREIN FAIL NOT.

30TH NOVEMBER. 1897.

IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, we have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent,
and the Great Seal of Our Province of Ontario to be hereunto affixed :
WITNESS, The Honourable Sir GEORGE AIREY KIRKPATRICK,
Knight, Commander of our Most Distinguished Order of St. Michael and
and St. George, Member of Our Privy Council for Canada and LIEU-
TENANT-GOVERNOR of Our Province of Ontario, at Our Government
House, in Our City of Toronto, in Our said Province, this TWENTIETH
day of OCTOBER, in the year of Our Lord one thousand eight hundred
and ninety-seven and in the Sixty-first year of Our Reign.

By Command,

CHARLES CLARKE,

Clerk of the Crown in Chancery.

Tuesday, the Thirtieth day of November, 1897, being the first day of the Fourth
Session of the Eighth Legislature of the Province of Ontario, for the Despatch of Busi-
ness, pursuant to a Proclamation of His Honour the Honourable Sir George Airey
Kirkpatrick, Knight Commander of the Most Distinguished Order of St. Michael

and St. George, Lieutenant-Governor of the Province.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

Mr. Speaker informed the House, that he had received a notification of a vacancy,
which had occurred since the last Session of the House, for the following Electoral
District :

The Electoral District of South Toronto.

The HON. P. E. A. EVANTUREL, M.P.P.,

Speaker of the Legislative Assembly
of the Province of Ontario,

Alfred P. 0., Ontario.
Dear Sir ; —

I hereby notify you of my intention and desire to resign my seat in the Legislative
Assembly of the Province of Ontario for the Constituency of South Toronto and I
hereby resign my seat as a member of the Legislative Assembly of the Province of
Ontario in and for the Constituency of South Toronto.

As witness my hand and seal at tht City of Toronto in the County of York this
20th day of November, A.D. 1897.

Witnesses :

WM. DAVID MCPHERSON,

27 Wellington St. E., Toronto,
Barrister- at- Law.

O. A. HOWLAND, (L.S.)
EDMUND BRISTOL,

103 Bay St , Toronto,
Barrister-at-Law.

01 Vic. 30TH NOVEMBER.

Mr. Speaker also informed the House that he had received a communication from
the Secretary of His Excellency the Governor-General, which was read, and is as
follows :

Office of the Governor -General's Secretary,

Ottawa, 9th August, 1897.

Sir, — I am desired by His Excellency the Governor-General to inform you that he
has received instructions to convey to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario the Queen's
cordial thanks for the loyal congratulations and assurances of devotion to Her Crown
and Person contained in their finely illuminated Address to Her Majesty on the occasion
of Her Diamond Jubilee.

I have the honour to be, Sir,

Your obedient Servant,

The Honourable, C. J. JONES,

The Speaker, For Governor-General's Secretary.

Legislative Assembly of Ontario,

Toronto.

The House was then adjourned during pleasure.
And after some time the House was resumed.

His Honour the Honourable Sir OLIVER MOW AT, G.O.M.G., the Lieutenant-
Governor then entered the House, and being seated in the Chair on the Throne, was
pleased to open the Session by a Gracious Speech to the House.

Mr. Speaker and Gentlemen of the Legislative Assembly.'

It gives me much pleasure to meet again the members of the Legislative Assembly
of this Province with whom I was so long associated in a different capacity. While it
was my good fortune to be for many years the leader of the majority in the Assembly,
I am glad to know that I always had the friendship and good-will of many members who
were politically opposed to me, and that during all of my long Premiership I had the per-
sonal enmity of none. As Lieutenant- Governor, and no longer identified with any politi-
cal party, I hope to possess the confidence of all ; and I trust that my long familiarity with
public matters, as a member of Canadian and Provincial Legislatures and Governments,
may enable me to render good service to my native Province in the performance of the
important constitutional duties which belong to the office of Lieutenant-Governor.

I am greatly pleased to be able to state that their Excellencies, the Governor-General,
the Queen's representative in the Dominion, and the Countess of Aberdeen have come to
reside in the Capital of the Province for a time, and it is owing to this happy event that
we are honored with their presence to-day. I am sure I truly express your sentiments
when in your name and my own I bid their Excellencies a most hearty and loyal wel-
come, and indulge the hope that during their residence in this city they may become
better acquainted with the people and institutions of Western Ontario than has been
possible in the short but welcome visits which have heretofore been customary. I sin-
cerely trust that this departure from the usage which has hitherto generally prevailed
may not only be found to be of public advantage, but may prove as agreeable to their
Excellencies as it is gratifying to Her Majesty's loyal subjects.

30TH NOVEMBER. 1897

Through Divine goodness, the blessings of a bounteous harvest have been vouch
safed to the husbandman in nearly every portion of the Province ; and it is an addi-
tional cause for gratitude that prices for nearly all the products of the farm have greatly
increased since your last meeting. The signs of returning prosperity, not in agriculture
alone but in nearly every important branch of business and industrial enterprise except
those directly connected with the sawn lumber industry, give cause for hearty congratu-
lation.

I rejoice further to be able to congratulate you upon the increased interest manifested
by the Mother Country in Canada and the other Colonies and Dependencies of the Em-
pire, as evidenced during this Jubilee year by the reception of their representatives, as well
by Her Majesty and others in authority as by the whole people of the United Kingdom,
and as further shown by the action of the British Government in connection with certain
foreign treaties which affected Canadian commerce.

I am pleased to inform you that some progress has been made during the year by
the Arbitrators to whom were referred certain unsettled accounts between the Govern-
ments of the Dominion and the Provinces of Ontario and Quebec. Appeals have been
taken to the Supreme Court against some of the decisions of the Arbitrators, and argu-
ments have been heard thereon, and the appeals now stand for judgment.

The appeals to the Privy Council in the matters of the Fisheries, and of the power
of appointing Queen's Counsel have been heard by the Judicial Committee, but judgment
has not yet been delivered.

It is gratifying to learn that the new County Councils, now limited in the number
of members under the new Act, are found able to transact the business of their respec-
tive counties as efficiently as formerly, and at a greatly reduced annual expenditure. *

I regret that the Congress of the United States has seen fit to increase the duties
on pine and other lumber imported into that country, to such an extent as to make it
almost impossible to continue sending to the markets of the United States, certain
qualities of the pine lumber produced in this Province.

The mining industry is making steady progress, and throughout the present year
lively interest in the mineral resources of the Province has been exhibited. The area
of Crown lands sold and leased under the provisions of the Mines Act has been largely
in excess of that of any recent year, and the revenue derived from sales and rentals
has been correspondingly greater. It is gratifying to note that the ascertained limits of
the several gold fields are being constantly extended by exploration, and that their
value is being satisfactorily proved by substantial mining and milling work at a number
of central points. In the northwestern part of the Province, where our territorial rights
were strenuously disputed for a long time by the Federal Government, there is evidence
to show that rich gold-bearing veins exist over a region several thousand jsquare miles
in extent, and there is good ground for hope that this part of the Province will become
a field of successful enterprise and afford profitable and stable employment to capital and
labor. I am confident that the recent discoveries of gold in various parts of the Province
will attract to our country increased attention abroad, and especially in the Mother
Land.

* The perpetuation of the sources of our pine timber supply, on Crown lands not
suited for general agriculture, has for some time engaged the attention of the Government.
A Royal Commission was appointed last summer to investigate the condition of the
young forests which now cover extensive tracts of these waste lands, and to report as to
the best and most practicable methods of preserving and managing them, and otherwise
concerning ref ores try. I am glad to be able to announce that substantial progress has
been made in the work of the Commission, and that much information on this important
subject has been obtained.

Among other measures to be laid before you are, a Bill relating to timber and tim-
ber licenses ; a Bill affecting the Election Laws ; a Bill to prevent gambling at Agricul-

61 Vic. 30TH NOVEMBER.

tural and other Faird ; a Bill affecting the business of Druggists ; a Bill to prevent the
spread of disease amongst Fruit Trees ; a Bill relating to eotfm-Provmcial Insurance
Companies ; a Bill respecting Gaols and Gaolers ; and a Bill relating to Reforestry.

I am happy to inform you that the work of revising and printing the Statutes of
the Province is almost completed, and I hope that it will be in my power to issue the
necessary Proclamation for bringing into force, at the close of the year, the new
Revised Statutes, embodying once more in two convenient volumes the entire Provincial
Public Statute law. A confirmatory Bill will be laid before you for consideration.

In connection with the revision of our Public Statutes, the statutory provisions
affecting practice and procedure, and all the Rules and Orders issued by the various
Courts during more than fifty years, have been consolidated and revised under the
supervision and direction of the Judges of the Supreme Court of Ontario, with the view
of promoting greater uniformity, certainty and simplicity in legal proceedings. Consoli-
dated Orders embodying the results have been adopted under the authority given for
this purpose by statute ; and a Bill to confirm the work of the Commission will be laid
before you.

The Public Accounts for the ten months ending with the 31st day of October will
be laid before you without delay, and for the remaining two months within a few days
after the close of the year.

The Estimates for the various public services for the coming year will at an early
date be submitted for your approval. They will be found to have been prepared with
all the economy consistent with the efficiency of the Public Service.

His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor was then pleased to retire.

Mr. Speaker reported, That, to prevent mistakes, he had obtained a copy of His
Honour's Speech, which he read.

On motion of the Attorney- General, seconded by Mi. Ross, a Bill was introduced
intituled " An Act to provide for the Administration of Oaths of Office to persons
appointed as Justices of the Peace," and the same was read the first time.

On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. Ross,

Ordered, That the Speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, to this House, be
taken into consideration To-morrow.

On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. Ross,

Resolved, That Select Standing Committees of this House, for the present Session be
appointed for the following purposes : — 1. On Privileges and Election ; 2. On Railways ;
3. On Miscellaneous Private Bills ; 4. On Standing Orders ; 5. On Public Accounts ;
6. On Printing ; 7. On Municipal Law ; 8. On Legal Bills ; which said Com mil tees shall
severally be empowered to examine and inquire into all such matters and things as shall
be referred to them by the House, and to report from time to time their observations and
opinions thereon, with power to send for persons, papers and records.

The House then adjourned at 4.10 p.m.

IST DECEMBER. 1897.

Wednesday, 1st December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of the Wardsville Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of
Wardsville Council, R. T. of T., No. 419 ; also, the Petition of Howard Gardiner and
others ; also, the Petition of George Lang ford and others ; also, the Petition of James
Richardson and others, all of Middlesex.

By Mr, Harcourt, the Petition of the North Pelham Division, Sons of Temperance ;
also, the Petition of the Pelham Presbyterian Church ; also, the Petition of James
Buchanan and others of Pelham ; also, the Petition of the Wellandport Methodist
Church.

By Mr. Dryden, the Petition of Oshawa Council No. 47, R. T. of T. ; also, the
Petition of Albert Division No. 31, Sons of Temperance.

By Mr. Harty, the Petition of the Kingston, Portsmouth and Cataraqui Electric
Railway Company ; also, the Petition of the Brock Street Methodist Church, Kingston.

By Mr. Davis, the Petition of the County Council of York. m

By Mr. Baxter ', the Petition of East Severn Presbyterian Church.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of the Northern W. C. T. U. of Toronto ; also, the
Petition of Rosedale Council No. 274, R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of Excelsior Division
No. 28, Sons of Temperance ; also, the Petition of B. D. Turquand of Toronto.

By Mr. Reid, the Petition of the Moscow Division Sons of Temperance No. 51.

By Mr. Kerns, the Petition of Golden Rule Council No. 60, R. T. of T., Oakville.

By Mr. Langfordt the Petition of A. P. Cornell of Gravenhurst ; also, the Petition
of the Village Council of Huntsville.

By Mr. Craig, the Petition of Belwood Epworth League.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of the Clinton Street Methodist Church, Toronto ;
also, the Petition of Walter B. Kendall ; also, the Petition of John C. Gray, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of the Smith's 'Falls Methodist Church.

By Mr. Browert the Petition of the Young People's Society, Centre Street Church,
St. Thomas.

By. Mr. Middleton, the Petition of Imperial Council No. 5, R. T. of T., Hamilton.

By Mr. Bush, the Petition of Prescott W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of the County Council of the United Counties of Stor-
mont, Dundas and Glengarry.

By Mr. Beatty (Leeds}, the Petition of Progress Division No. 241, S. O. T., Sand Bay.
By Mr. Blezard, the Petition of the Township Council of Otonabee.
By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of the Battersea Methodist Church.

By Mr. Dynes, the Petition of Lakelet Division No. 328, S. O. T., of Homing's Mills ;
also, the Petition of Beech Valley Division No. 327, S. O. T., of Mulmur.

61 Vic. IST DECEMBER.

By Mr. Meacham, the Petition of the Selby Division S. 0. T. No. 47 ; also, the
Petition of S. Shibley and others ; also, the Petition of the Rev. W. Coombs and others ;
also, the Petition of W. J. Crothers and others ; also, the Petition of W. Martin and
others, all of Lennox.

By Mr. Stratton, the Petition of Auburn Lodge No. 250, 1. 0. G. T., of Peterborough.
By Mr. Barr, the Petition of Evergreen Lodge, I. 0. G. T.{ Renfrew.

By Mr. Chappie, the Petition of Greenbank S. 0. T. No. 331.
By Mr. Preston, the Petition of the Carp I. O. G. T.

By Mr. German, the Petition of George Stark and others; also, the Petition of tht,
Rev. D. P. Bell and others ; also, the Petition of J. W. Fraser and others, all of Well-
xnd.

By Mr. Caven, the Petition of Wellington Epworth League.

By Mr. Par do, the Petition of Angus Sinclair and others of Chatham.

By Mr. Field, the Petition of the Town Council of Cobourg.

By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of the Town Council of Dundas.

By Mr. Gibson (Huron), the Petition of the Township Council of Grey.

By Mr. Dickenson, the Petition of the Synod of the Diocese of Niagara.

By Mr. Loughrin, the Petition of the Town Council of North Bay.

By Mr. O'Keefe, the Petition of the Oity Council of Ottawa.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of the Incorporated Synod of the Diocese of Ottawa ;
also, the Petition of James Maitland Clark and others of Smith's Falls.

By Mr. Conmee, the Petition of the Town Council of Rat Portage.
By Mr. Truax, the Petition of the Town Council of Walkerton.
By Mr. McKee, the Petition of the City Council of Windsor.
Mr. German moved, seconded by Mr. Farwell,

That an humble Address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor of
Ontario, as follows : —

To the Honourable Sir Oliver Mowat, G.C.M.G., Lieutenant-Governor of the Province of
Ontario :

And the Motion, having been put,
And a Debate having ensued,

Ordered, that the Debate be adjourned until To-morrow.
The House then adjourned at 5.10 p.m.

2ND DECEMBER. 1897

Thursday, 2nd December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.

PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), the Petition of Imperial Council No. 5, R. T. of T. ;

also, the Petition of the Quarterly Official Board of Zion Tabernacle ; also, the Petition

of Crown Council No. 333, R. T. of T., all of Hamilton.

By Mr. Early, the Petition of the First Baptist Church of Kingston.

By Mr. Davis, the Petition of Aurora Council No. 44, R. T. of T. ; also, the Petition
of the Grand Division S. 0. T. ; also, the Petition of F. G. Tremayne of Sutton West ;
also, the Petition of Stewart Scott ; also, the Petition of J. R. T. Broughton, all of New-
marJcet :, also, the Petition of G. Collar d\ also, the Petition of H. O. Thomas, nil of
Stouffville.

By Mr. Whitney, the Petition of the Quarterly Official Inkerman Circuit Methodist
Church. *

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of Creighton Branch W. C, T. U., Toronto.
By Mr. Maenish, the Petition of the City Council of St. Thomas.

By Mr. Auld, the Petition of Mersea Township Epworth League ; also, the Petition
of George A. Sherrin of Essex.

By Mr. Pardo, the Petition of P. Doyle of Chatham ; also, the Petition of the
Sydenham Glass Company of Wallaceburg, Limited.

By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of Thomas Comfort of Dundas.

By Mr. Little, the Petition of Caledon Knox Church ; also, the Petition of Eugene
Division No. 329, S. O. T. ; also, the Petition of J. A. Brown ; also, the Petition of W.
H. Sandford ; also, the Petition of W. D. Golding, all of Tottenham ; also, the Petition
of Samuel Oldham of Bradford.

By Mr. Hiscott, the Petition of J. S. Hara and others ; also, the Petition of W. J.
H or ton and others, all of Merritton ; also, the Petition of T. A. Wright and others of
St. Catharines ; also, the Petition of W. L. Scholfield and others of Port Colborne ; also,
the Petition of Clark Lane and others of Jordan ; also, the Petition of the Revd. John
E. Trotter and others j also, the Petition of B. Tucker and others, all of St. Catharines.

By Mr. Kerns, the Petition of Milton W. 0. T. U.

By Mr. O'Keefe, the Petition of Gordon B. Pattee and others ; also, the Petition of
Henry Willson ; also, the Petition of K. D. Graham ', also, the Petition of M. A. Belanger,
all of Ottawa.

By Mr. Barr, the Petition of Golden I. O. G. T. No. 94 ; also, the Petition of Ever-
green Lodge, I. O. G. T , No. 489.

By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of James M. Hargreaves of Paisley.

61 Vic. 2ND DECEMBER.

By Mr. Craig, the Petition ofvZ, Yoemans of Mount Forest-; also, the Petition of
the Carmel Methodist Church.

By Mr. Hagqerty, the Petition of the Township Council of Faraday ; also, the
Petition of Stirling Methodist Church.

By Mr. St. John, the Petition of Mimico Presbyterian Church ; also, the Petition of
Richmond Hill R. T. of T.

By Mr. Reid, the Petition of Desmond Methodist Congregation.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of Ault&ville Epworth League ; also, the Petition of
AutoviUe W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Moore, the Petition of Gait W, C. T. U. ; also, the Petition of E. J. Duck of
Preston ; also, the Petition of T. E. McLellan of Gait.

By Mr. Bush, the Petition of Augusta Circuit Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of A. 0. Harding ; also, the Petition of George Birks, all of Prescott.

By Mr. Dynes, the Petition of Richard R. Hopkins of Grand Valley ; also, the
Petition of Lakelet Division S. O. T.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of J. F. Kellock of Perth ; also, the Petition oiPlay-
fair W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Ryerson, the Petition of Francis H. Holgate ; also, the Petition of George A .
Bingham ; also, the Petition of Isaac Curry ; also, the Petition of George Marshale ; also,
the Petition of James H. Rutty ; also, the Petition of R. W. Elliot ; also, the Petition
of Charles R. Sneath ; also, the Petition of W. J. Redmond, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Preston, the Petition of Clayton R. T. of T.

By Mr. Beatty (Leeds}, the Petition of Newboro* Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of /. W. Harrison of Gananoque.

By Mr. Grower, the Petition of Corinth Methodist Church.

By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of the Township Council of Darlington ; also,
the Petition of Orono S. O. T.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of Andrew Moir Dow ; also, the Petition of G. M.
Petrie, all of Toronto ; also, the Petition of Epworth League of 0. E. Epworth Methodist
Church, Toronto.

By Mr. Miscampbell, the Petition of J. W. Slaven of Orillia ; also, the Petition of
C. G. Millar d of Coldwater ; also, the Petition of Quarterly Board of Orillia Methodist
Church ; also, the Petition of Epworth League of 0. E. St. Paul's Methodist Church ;
also, the Petition of Epworth League of C. E. Orillia Methodist Church.

By Mr. Chappie, the Petition of Port Perry R. T. of T. ; also, the Petition of S. C.
Nicholls of Uxbridge ; also, the Petition of William Fead of Cannington \ also, the Petition
of H. Baldwin of Sunderland ; also, the Petition of William Williamson of Beaverton*

By Mr. Willoughby, the Petition of Nathan Empey of Warkworth ; also, the Petition
of /. R. McCrea of Campbellford.

10 2ND AND 3RD DECEMBER. 1897

By Mr. Richardson, the Petition of East Toronto Division No. 318, S. O. T.

By Mr. Field, the Petition of Quarterly Official Board of the Alderville Indian
Mission.

By Mr. Caven, the Petition of Rose Hall Epworth League ; also, the Petition of E.
A. Case of Picton.

By Mr. Shore, the Petition of Crumlin, Presbyterian Church.

By Mr. Carpenter, the Petition of J. Austin of Simcoe ; also, the Petition of the
Teeter mile Methodist Church.

By Mr. Taylor, the Petition of John Farrell of Lucan ; also, the Petition of D. A.
Stewart of Ailsa Craig ; also, the Petition of James F. Roberts of Parkhill.

By Mr. Charlton, the Petition of J. Austin of Simcoe.

By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of the Quarterly Board of the Hannah Street Meth-
odist Church, Hamilton; also, the Petition of Walter Park; also, the Petition of A.
Hamilton ; also, the Petition of John A. Roche ; also, the Petition of P. C. Maicher ; also,
the Petition of Mark Mundy ; also, the Petition of John A. Barr, all of Hamilton.

By Mr German, the Petition of J. H. Smith of Dunnville ; also, the Petition of
Salem Methodist Church, Wettandport Circuit.

The Order of the Day for resuming the Adjourned Debate on the Motion for con-
sideration of the Speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor at the opening of the
Session, having been read,

The Debate was resumed,

And after some time, it was,

Ordered, that the Debate be further adjourned until To-morrow.

The House then adjourned at 10.50 p.m.

Wednesday, 3rd December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of G. H. Small and others ; also, the Petition of J. C.
Gardiner and others of Middlesex ; also, the Petition of Kerwood Church ; also, the
Petition of Glencoe Council No. 417, E. T. of T. No. 417; also, the Petition of G. C.
McFarlane of Glencoe.

€1 Vic. 3RD DECEMBER. 11

By Mr, Dryden, the Petition of Whitby Division No. 34, 8. 0. T. ; also, the Petition
of Bethesda Division No. 372, S. O. T. ; also, the Petition of R. W. Chambers and others
of Oshawa ; also, the Petition of W. F. Eastwood of Claremont ; also, the Petition of G.
H. Allison ; also, the Petition of A. J. Davis, all of Port Perry', also, the Petition of
A. H. Allen] also, the Petition of J E. Willis, all of Whitby.

By Mr. Harty, the Petition of Cook's Church, Kingston • also, the Petition of F. J.
Hoag of Kingston.

By Mr. Davis, the Petition of William T. Lloyd of Mount Albert ; also, the Petition
of Enterprise Division No. 259, S. O. T., of Newmarket.

By Mr. Auld, the Petition of John Thorn of Essex • also, the Petition of the Town-
ship Council of Mer*ea.

By Mr. Biggar, the Petition of David McLaren and others of Ottawa.

By Mr. Dana, the Petition of S. C. G. Lamb ; also, the Petition of /. P. Lamb, all
of Athens.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of Henry Garland Stubbs ; also, the Petition of A.
R. Fraser ; also, the Petition of W . ff. Field ; also, the Petition of William ffearn ; also,
the Petition of the Clinton Street Methodist Church, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of the Village Council of Huntsville ; also, the
Petition of W. B. Smith of Hamilton.

By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of W. H. Crooker of Waterdown.

By Mr. O'Keefe, the Petition of Hugh Duncan ; also, the Petition of William A.
Lloyd, all of Ott-iwa.

By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of Eden Grove Council No. 472, R. T. of T. also,
the Petition of W. ff. H. Martyn of Kincardine.

By Mr. McNaughton, the Petition of the Township Council of Amabel ; also, the
Petition of Chesley Evangelical Association ; also, the Petition of the Chesley Baptist
Church ; also, the Petition of J. G. Douglas of Southampton ; also, the Petition of W.
R. Nilborn of Tara ; also, the Petition of D. A. McCrimmon of Ripley ; also, the Petition
of M. F. Eby of Port Elgin.

By Mr. Reid (Addington), Two Petitions of Sharbot Lake Methodist Church.

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of the Rawdon Circuit Methodist Church.

By Mr. Ryerson, the Petition of the Simpson Avenue Methodist Church ; also, the
Petition of J. B. Gullen ; also the Petition of W. A. Ellis ; also two Petitions of the
Gordon Union W. C. T. TL, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Garrow, the Petition of E. A. Blair and others ; also, the Petition of William
Anderson and others ; also, the Petition of Eureka, Coancil R. T. of T., all of Goderich ;
also, the Petition of F. W. Watts of Clinton ; also, the Petition of the Township Council
of East Wawanosh ; also, the Petition of Eureka Council No. 103, R. T. of T.; also, the
Petition of the Westfield Methodist Church.

12 SUB DECEMBER. 1897

By Mr. St. John, the Petition of the Mimico Presbyterian Church ; also, the Petition
of Charles Wright of Toronto Junction.

By Mr. Kerns, the Petition of A. Higginbotkam ; also, the Petition of J. H. Mc-
Collom, all of Milton ; also, the Petition of John Urquhart of Oakville ; also, the Petition
of G. E. Morrow of Georgetown.

By Mr. McNicol, the Petition of S. B. Clarke of Hanover ; also, the Petition of
Hampden Church C. E. S.

By Mr. Field, the Petition of 0. G. Johns ; also, the Petition of B. Wilson, all of
Cobourg ; also, the Petition of the County Council of the United Counties of Northumber-
land and Durham.

By Mr. Shore, the Petition of the London West Methodist Church.

By Mr. Meacham, the Petition of the Quarterly Board of the Eastern Methodist

Church ; also, the Petition of Napanee Eastern Methodist Church.

•
By Mr. Bush, the Petition of Angus Buchanan of Kemptville ; also, the Petition of

the Cardinal Presbyterian Church.

By Mr. Pattullo, the Petition of the Township Council of East Nissouri ; also, the
Petition of W. A. Karn ; also, the Petition of James White, all of Woodstock ; also, the
Petition of 7?. A. Duncan of Embro.

By Mr. Barr, the Petition of Cobden Wolftown Lodge No. 387,

By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of A. Farncomb of Neivcastle ; also, the Petition
of Bowmanville W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Taylor, the Petition of Exeter Advance Council No. 207, R. T. of T. ; also,
the Petition ot Komoka Council No. 499, R. T. of T.

By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of William Taylor of Ilarriston ; also, the Petition of
Palmerston Council No. 201, R. T. of T.

By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of W. H. Mealey of Kingston ; also the Petition of
Wolfe Island St. Andrew's Church ; also, the Petition of Wolfe Island Ridge Congrega-
tion.

By Mr. Beatty (Leeds), the Petition of Seeley's Bay Amity Division S. 0. T. ; also,
the Petition of John B. Phillips of Delta.

By Mr. Campbell, the Petition of Eganville R. T. of T. ; also, the Petition of the
Renfrew Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of the Northcote Congregation.

By Mr. Miscampbell, the Petition of Hawkstone Epworbh League ; also, the Petition
of Rugby S. 0. T.

By Mr. Charlton, the Petition of W. H. Meek of Port Rowan ; also, the Petition of
Lynedoch Presbyterian Church; also, the Petition of the Township Council of Wood-
house.

By Mr. Chappie, the Petition of the Siloam Division S. 0. T.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of /. S. McCallum of Smith's Falls ; also, the
Petition of Carleton Place R. T. of T.

€1 'Vic. 3RD DECEMBER. 13

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of the Cornwall Knox Church.

By Mr. Richardson, the Petition of the Stouffvitle Council R. T. of T.

By Mr. Gibson (Huron), the Petition of W. ff. G. Brown of Wroxeter ; also, the
Petition of E. A. Deadman of Brussels ; also, the Petition of A. Cloakey and others ;
also, the Petition of Revd. W. T. Hall and others ; also, the Petition of Robert Young
and others, all of Huron East ; also, the Petition of Lakelet Methodist Church ; also, the
Petition of Melville Church, Brussels ; also, the Petition of Bluevale Epworth League.

By Mr. McLean, the Petition of Alexander Wilson ; also, the Petition of Robert
Lumsden, all of Seaforth ; also, the Petition of Porter's Hill South Star Lodge I. O. G. T.

By Mr. Carpenter, the Petition of Vanessa Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of J. E. York of Waterford.

By Mr. McNeill, the Petition of S. Fraleigh of St. Marys ; also, the Petition of
S. A. Hodge; also, the Petition of W. B. Barley, all of Mitchell.

By Mr. Caven, the Petition of the Solmtsville Methodist Church.

By Mr. McKay (Oxford), the Petition of C. A. Wismer of Norwich • also, the
Petition of R. J. Hill ; also, the Petition of W. Anderson, all of Otterville ; also, the
Petition of F. G. Walley and others of Ingersoll ; also, the Petition of Burgessville R. T.
of T. ; also, the Petition of Ingersoll W. C. T. U. ; also, the Petition of Otterville
W. C. T. U. ; also, the Petition of King Street Methodist Church of Ingersoll.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of the Bathurst Street W. C. T. U. ; also, the
Petition of D. Waterhouse ; also, the Petition of Thomas Johnston, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Baxter, the Petition of E. E. Phillips of Selkirk] also, the Petition of
S. W. Howard ; also, the Petition of John Seatter, all of Hagersville ; also, the Petition
of the Village Council of Hagersville.

By Mr. Cleland, the Petition of the Brookholm Epworth League ; also, the Petition
of Georgian Bay Division No. 202, S. 0. T. of Meaford; also, the Petition of Aberdeen
Lodge No. 32, Owen Sound ; also, the Petition of A. W. Manley ; also, the Petition of
J. McCallum ; also, the Petition of John Parker ; also, the Petition of S. J. Parker \
also, the Petition of Robert Wightman, all of Owen Sound.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of Angus Sinclair and others of Chatham, praying that an Act may pass to amend
the Act incorporating the Chatham City and Suburban Railway Company.

Of the Town Council of Cobourg, praying that an Act may pass to enable the Cor-
poration to acquire or construct Water Works, and for other purposes.

Of the Town Council of Dundas, praying that an Act may pass to confirm certain
agreements respecting the Hamilton and Dundas Street Railway Company.

Of the Township Council of Grey, praying that an Act may pass to confirm or
amend a certain Drainage By-law.

Of the Kingston, Portsmouth and Cataraqui Electric Railway Company, praying that
an Act may pass to legalize and confirm a certain issue of Bonds, and to remove doubts
as to powers of Company.

14 3RD DECEMBER. 1897

Of the Synod of the Diocese of Niagara, praying that an Act may pass to amend Acts
respecting the Synod, and for power to acquire and hold real estate.

Of the Town Council of North Bay, praying that an Act may pass, to consolidate
the unprovided for debt, and to empower the issue of debentures.

Of the City Council of Ottawa, praying that an Act may pass, authorizing the
borrowing of $70,^)00 for Park purposes.

Of the Incorporated Synod of the Diocese of Ottawa, praying that an Act may pass,,
confirming the Canons of the Synod.

Of the Town Council of Rat Portage, praying that an Act may pass, to confirm By-
law No. 205, for the construction of Water Works.

Of James Maitland Clark and others of Smith1 s Falls, praying that an Act may pass,
to incorporate the Smith's Falls, Rideau and Southern Electric Railway*Company.

Of the Town Council of Walkerton, praying that an Act may pass, to confirm a
certain By-law granting aid to the Walkerton Chair Factory Company, Limited,

Of the City Council and Water Commissioners, of Windsor, praying that an Act may
pass, to amend the Acts relating to the Water Works of the City.

Of the County Council of York, praying that an Act may pass, to ratify and confirm
By-law No. 740.

Of the County Council of the United Counties of Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry \
praying certain amendments to the Assessment Act, respecting the sale of lands for
Taxes.

Of B. D. Turquand of Toronto ; also, of A. P. Cornell of Huntsville ; also, of John

C. Gray ; also, of Walter B. Kendall, all of Toronto, severally pra) ing certain amend-
ments to the License Law, respecting the sale of Liquors by Druggists.

Of J. W. Fraser and others ; also, of George Stark and others ; also, of the Revd.

D. P. Bell and others, all of Welland ; also, of Evergreen Lodge No. 489 of Renfrew ;
also, of 3. Shibley and others; also, of Revd. W. Coombe and others; also, pf William
Martin and others ; als), of W. J. Crothers and others, all of Lennox ; also, of Lakelet
Division No. 328, Homing's Mills, S. O. T. • also, of Progress Division No. 241, S. O. T.,
Sand Bay ; also, of Imperial Council No. 5, R. T. of T., Hamilton ; also, of Smith's Falls
Methodist Church ; also, of Clinton Street Methodist Church, Toronto ; also, of Oakville
Golden Rule Council No. 63, R. T. of T. ; also, of Excelsior Division No. 28, S. 0. T.,
Toronto ; also, of Rosedale Council No. 274, R. T. of T.; also, of Albert Division No 31,
S. 0. T., Prince Albert ; also, of North Pelham Division S. 0. T. ; also, of Pelham Presby-
terian Church ; also, of James Buchanan and others of Monck ; also, of James Richard-
son and others ; also, of George Lang ford and others ; also, of Howard Gardiner and
others ; also, of H. A. Wilson and others ; also, of J. A. Trestain and others, all of
Middlesex ; severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the
transacting of business on the Lord's Day.

1 Vic. 3RD AND 6TH DECEMBER. 15

Of the Brock Street Methodist Church, Kingston ; also, of Wellington Epworth
League; also, of Auburn Lodge No. 250, I. 0. G. T. ; also of Village Council of Otonabee ;
also, of Selby Division No. 47, S. O. T. ; also, of Beech Valley Division No. 327 ; also, of
Carp, I O. G. T. ; also, of Battersea Methodist Church ; also, of Prescott W. C. T. U. ;
also, of Greenbank S. 0. T., No. 331 ; also, of St. Thomas Centre Street Church ; also, of
Bellwood Epworth League ; also, of Village Council of Huntsville ; also, of Moscow
Division S. O. T. ; also, of Northern W. C. T. U,, Toronto ; also, of East Severn Presby-
terian Church ; also, of Oshawa Council R. T. of T. No. 47 ; also, of Wellandport Meth-
odist Church, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law respecting
the power of a majority of electors to further limit hours for sale of liquor, where licenses
in operation.

The Order of the Day for resuming the Adjourned Debate on the Motion for con-
sideration of the Speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor at the opening of the
Session, having been read, it was

Ordered, That the Debate be further adjourned until Tuesday next.
The House then adjourned at 3.40 p.m.

Monday, 6th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Harty, the Petition of the Brock Street Methodist Church, Kingston.

By Mr. Whitney, the Petition of Hallville I. O. G. T. ; also, the Petition of the
Morrisburg Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of John R. Bond of Toronto ; also, the
Petition of William Bow of Winchester.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of Deer Park W. C. T. U. ; also, the Petition of E. ff.
Bould of Toronto.

By Mr. McKee, the Petition of the Sandwich, Windsor and Amherstburg Railway
Company.

By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of the West Flamboro' Rose Council No. 40, R. T. of T. ;
also, the Petition of Carlisle Methodist Sunday School ; also, the Petition of J. 0. Mc-
Gregor of Waterdown. „

By Mr. Dana, the Petition of the Lyn Epworth League ; also, the Petition of the
Frankville and Toledo Circuit Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of R, F. Curry of
Brockville.

16 6TH DECEMBER 1897

By Mr. Dickenson, the Petition of the Blackheath Presbyterian Church ; also, the
Petition of the Saltfleet Cheyne Church.

By Mr. Macnish, the Petition of W. 0, Foster ; also, the Petition of George R. Mc-
Coll, all of St. Thomas.

By Mr. Reid (Addington), the Petition of D. E. Rose of Tamworth ; also, the Petition
of M. J. Beeman of Newburg ; also, the Petition of the Centreville Presbyterian Ohurch ;
also, the Petition of the Centreville Methodist Church.

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of the Township Council of Madoc ; also, the Petition
of W. J. Atkins ; also, the Petition of Charles J. Wilson, all of Madoc.

By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of the Pine River Bethel Epworth League ; also, the
Petition of J. C. Cooke of Kincardine ; also, the Petition of D. J. Sutherland of Chesley.

By Mr. Little, the Petition of M. L. Campbell of Bradford ; also, the Petition of the
Thompsonville Snider Lodge I. 0. G. T. ; also, the Petition of the Tecumseth Sunday
School.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of Cornwall W. 0. T. U. ; also, the Petition of E. H.
Brown of Cornwall.

By Mr. Dynes, the Petition of the Township Council of Mulmur ; also, the Petition
of the Stanton Council R. T. of T. ; also, the Petition of Thomas Stevenson ; also, the
Petition of A. Turner, all of Orangeville.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of the Bathurst Methodist Church.

By Mr. Hiscott, the Petition of George B. Mittelberger ; also, the Petition of Harry
Southcott, all of St. Catharines ; also, the Petition of Henry Pafford of Niagara ; also, the
Petition of Z>. W. Eastman of Smithville ; also, the Petition of the Merrilton R. T. of T. •
also, the Petition of the Township Council of Gainsborough ; also, the Petition of George
H. Wright and others ; also, the Petition of D. Stocks and others, all of Niagara.

By Mr. Shore, the Petition of Birr Circuit Epworth League ; also, the Petition of
Henry J. Watts and others of Birr.

By Mr. Ferguson, the Petition of W. B. Graham of Ridgetown ; also, the Petition
of the Bknheim Council No. 72, R. T. of T. ; also, the Petition of the Ridgetown Metho-
dist Sunday School.

By Mr. Gibson (Huron), the Petition of N. McLaughlin of Gorrie] also, the Petition
of A. M. Spence of Fordwich.

By Mr. Murtrie, the Petition of A. B. Petrie ; also, the Petition of Charles Law, all
of Guelph ; also, the Petition of Charles E. Shaw of Rockwood ; also, the Petition of
Aberfoyle Methodist Sunday School ; also, the Guelph R. T. of T.

By Mr. McNaughton, the Petition of Wiarton R. T. of T.

By Mr. Kerns, the Petition of the County Council of Halton ; also, the Petition of
R. C. Balmer ; also, the Petition of John R. Byers, all of Oakville ; also, the Petition of
F. R. Davidson of Ottawa.

€1 Vic. GTH DECEMBER. 17

By Mr. Barr, the Petition of James Findlay of Pembroke ; also, tin Petition of
George Forbes of Beachburg.

By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of the Sydenham Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of the Batter sea Methodist Church.

By Mr. Chappie, the Petition of the Sylvan Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of

G. M. Hutchings of Cannington.

%
By Mr. Broker, the Petition of E. A. Campbell • also, the Petition of J. E, Richards,

all of Aylmer ; alao, the Petition of the Union Council No. 429, E. T. of T. ; also, the
Petition of the Bayham Methodist Church.

By Mr. St. John, the Petition of the Township Council of Whitchurch.

By Mr. Charlton, the Petition of the Walsingham Centre Methodist Church.

By Mr. Carpenter, the Petition of the Village Council of Delhi.

By Mr. Campbell, the Petition of the Arnprior Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of Cochrane & Flaunt ; also, the Petition of James Clark, all of Renfrew ; also the Petition
of A. T. Budd of Arnprior.

By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of the Hamilton Erskine Presbyterian Church.

By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of the County Council of Wellington ; also, the Petition
of the Dray ton Methodist Cnurch.

By Mr. O'Keefe, the Petition of R. T. Shillington of Ottawa.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of the Queen Street Methodist Church ; also, the
Petition of A. D. D ever ell ; also, the Petition of Willard Union; also, the Petition of
Bricklayers Union No. 2 ; also, the Petition of the Bathurst Street W. C. T. U., all of
Toronto

By Mr. McNeill, the Petition of the FJ liar ton Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of John Maclean of St Mary's.

By Mr. Ryerson, the Petition of F. B. Innes and others ; also, the Petition of Parlia-
ment Street Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of D. Thompson ; also, the Petition of
Robert Tuthill ; also, the Petition of J. R. Lee, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Cleland, the Petition of the Township Council of St. Vincent.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of Gordon B. Pattee and others of Ottawa, praying that an Act may pass to incor-
porate the Ottawa Stock Exchange.

Of the City Council of St. Thomas and the St. Thomas Street Railway Company,
praying that an Act may pass to confirm By-law No. 1005, and for other purposes.

Of the Sydenham Glass Company, Limited, praying that an Act may pass to confirm
By-law No. 49.

Of F. G. Tremayne and others of Sutton West ; also, of //. C. Thomas ; also, of G.
Collard, all of Stouffville ; also, of J. R. T. Broughton ; also, of Stewart Scott, all of
Newmarket ; also, of J. H. Smith of Dunnville ; also, of Walter Park ; also, of A. Hamil-

18 GTH DECEMBER. • 1897

ton ; also, of John A. Roach ; also, of P. C. Blaicher ; also, of Mark Mundy ; also, of
John A. J5ar>-, all of Hamilton] also, of J. Austin of Simcoe ; also, of J. F. Roberts of
Parkhill; also, of D. A. Stewart of Ailsa Craig ; also, of John Farrell of Lucan ; also,
of «/. ^4ws«in of Simcoe ; also, of E. A. Case of Picton ; also, of .7. J2. McRae of Campbell-
ford ', also, of Nathan Empey of Warkworth ; also, of William Williamson of Beaverton ;
also, of /7. Baldwin of Sunderland ; also, of William Fead of Cannington; also, of J*. .4.
Nichols of Vxbridge ; also, of C. «/. Millard of Coldwater ; also, of «7. JF. Slaven of Orillia ;
also, of 6r. .^f. Petrie ; also, of Andrew M. Dow, all of Toronto ; also, of </. PP. Harrison of
Gananoque ; also, of Francis H. Holgate ; also, of George A. Bingham ; also, of Tsaac
Curry ; also, of George Marshall ; also, of James H. Hutty ; also, of JS. TF. Elliot ; also,
of Charles R. Sneath ; also, of If. J. Redmond, all of Toronto . also, of /. ^. Kellock of
Perth; also, of Richard R. Hopkins of Grand Valley ; also, of George Burks; also, of .4.
0. Harding, all of Prescott; also, of T7. .#. McLellan of #aft ; also, "of ^. «7. Dack oi
Preston; also, of Z #. Yeomans of Mount Forest; also, of James M. Hargr eaves of
Paisley ; also, of Henry Willson ; also, of /£ Z>. Graham ; also, of Jf. .4 . Belanger, all of
Ottawa ; also, of JF. Z>. Golding of Tottenham ; also, of Samuel Oldham of Bradford ;
also, of JF. //. Sandford ; also, of J. 4. Brown, all of Tottenham ; also, of Thomas Com-
fort of Dundas ; also, of P. Doyle of Chatham; also, of George A. Sherrin of Essex,
severally praying certain amendments to the License Law, respecting the sale of liquor
by Druggists.

Of the First Baptist Church, Kingston ; also, of Crown Council No. 333, R. T. of T.;
also, of the Quarterly Official Board of ^ion Tabernacle ; also, of Imperial Council No. 5,
R. T. of T., all of Hamilton; also, of Aurora Council No. 44, R. T. of T.; also, of Grand
Division of Ontario, S. O. T.; also, of Salem Methodist Church ; also, of Hannah Street
Methodist Church of Hamilton ; also, of Teeswater Methodist Church ; also, of Crumlin
Presbyterian Church ; also, of Rose Hall Epworth League ; also, of the Quarterly Official
Board of the Indian Mission, Alder ville ; also, of East Toronto S. 0. T.; also, of Port
Perry R. T. of T.; also, of Orillia Epworth League of C. E.; also, of Epworth League of
C. E. of St. Paul's Methodist Church ; also, of Quarterly Board of Methodist Church of
Orillia ; also, of Epworth League of C. E. of Methodist Church, Toronto ; also, of Orono
S. 0. T. ; also of the Township Council of Darlington ; also, of Corinth Methodist Church ;
also, of Newboro* Methodist Church; also, of Clayton R, T. of T.; also, of Play fair
W. 0. T. IT.; also, of Lakelet Division S. O. T. Homing's Mills ; also, of Augusta Circuit
Methodist Church; also, of Gait W. 0. T. U.; also, of Aultsville W. C. T. U.; also, of
Aultsville Epworth League ; also, of Desmond Methodist Church ; also, of Richmond Hill
R. T. of T.; also, of Mimico Presbyterian Church ; also of the Township Council of
Faraday ; also, of Stirling Methodist Church ; also, of Carmel Methodist Church ; also,
of Evergreen Lodge I. O. G. T.; also of Golden Lodge No. 94, 1. O. G. T.; also of Milton
W. C. T. U.; also, of Caledon Knox Church ; also^ of Mersea Epworth League ; also, of
Creighton Branch W. C. T. U.; also, of Quarterly Official Board of Inkerman Methodist
Church, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law respecting the
power of a majority of electors to further limit the hours for sale of liquor where license
in operation.

61 Vic. 6TH AND 7TH DECEMBEK. 19

Of Revd. John E. Trotter and others ; also, of B. Tucker and others, all of St.
Catharines') also, of Clark Lane and others of Jordan ; also, of N. L. Schqfield and others
of Port Colborne ; also, of T. A. Wright and others of St. Catharines ; also, of W. J.
Horton and others ; also, of J. S. Hare and others, all of Merritton ; also, of J&mes
Slack and others of Stroud, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day
Act, respecting the transactkn of business on the Lord's Day.

The House then adjourned at 3.40 p.m.

Tuesday, 7th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), the Petition of A. Vincent & Oo. ; also, the Petition of
David G. Leitch \ also, the Petition of Andrew Rutherford; also, the Petition of Harri-
son Bros. \ also, the Petition of John P. Hennessy ; also, the Petition of George H. Hinch ;
also, the Petition of Frederick W. Mills ; also, the Petition of George Parke ; also, the
Petition of Otto G. Palm ; also, the Petition of W. T. Armour ; also, the Petition of
G. W. Spackman, all of Hamilton.

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of the Strathroy Prohibition League ; also, the Petition of
Wardsville St. James Church.

By Mr. Davis, the Petition of the Bradford Methodist Ohurch.

By Mr. Harcourt, the Petition of the Wellandport Circuit Methodist Church.

By Mr. Whitney, the Petition of the Morrisbnrg Epworth League ; also, the Petition
of the Hallville I. 0. G. T. ; also, the Petition of the Iroquois W. C. T. U. ; also, the
Petition of William White and others ; also, the Petition of T. J. Stiles and others of
Morrisburg ; also, the Petition of the Rowena Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of the
Dundela Methodist Ohurch ; also, the Petition of the Wesley Sunday School ; also, the
Petition of the Glovers Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of the Hanesville Church ;
also, the Petition of Brinston's Corners Church; also, the Petition of Iroquois Methodist
Church.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of Toronto District R. T. of T.
By Mr. Biggar, the Petition of the Town Council of Trenton.
By Mr. Robertson, the Petition of the Town Council of Berlin.
By Mr. Paton, the Petition of the Town Council of Collingwood.

20 TTH DECEMBER. 1897

% By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of Dundas R T. of T.

By Mr. Dana, the Petition of P. K. McMillan ; also, the Petition of James Williams,
all tfBrockville ; also, the Petition of the Addison and Greenbank Methodist Church.

By Mr. Auld, the Petition of W. McSween ; also, the Petition of E. F. Darby of
Harrow ; also, the Petition of J. W. Fetch of Kingsville ; also, the Petition of the Town-
ship Council of North Gosfield; also, the Petition of the South Mersea Circuit Wesley
Church.

By Mr. Burt, the Petition of James D. Fleming of St. George.

By Mr. Hiscott, the Petition of St. Catharines Congregational Church ; also, the
Petition of North Pelham Division S. O. T. ; also, the Petition of the Merritton Presby-
terian Church ; also, the Petition of the Queenston Methodist Church. •

By Mr. O'Keefe, the Petition of the Ottawa S. O. T. No. 25.

By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of the Greenock Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of Alexander McKinnon of Kincardine.

By Mr. Little, the Petition of the Thompsonville Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of the Revd. George Walker and others of Cookstown.

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of Egan Creek Methodist Church.
By Mr. Pattullo, the Petition of the East Nissouri Baptist Church.
By Mr. Smith, the Petition of the Elmbank S. 0. T,
By Mr. Stratton, the Petition of Auburn Lodge I. O. G. T.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of the Cornwall Knox Church Sunday School ; also,
the Petition of J. W. Silcox and others of Cornwall ; also, the Petition of Moulinette
W. C. T. U.} also, the Petition of the Aultsville S. 0. T.; also, the Petition of St. Lawrence
Council R. T. of T.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of Pioneer Council No. 1, R. T. of T.; also, the
Petition of J. A. Thompson ; also, the Petition of the Central W. 0. T. U.; also, the
Petition of the Parkdale W. 0. T. U., all of Toronto.

By Mr. Reid (Addington}, the Petition of Centreville C. E. S. of South Monaghan.
By Mr. Carpenter, the Petition of the Tilsonburg Methodist Church.
By Mr. Chappie, the Petition of Udney R. T. of T.

By Mr. Taylor, the Petition of Komoka Council No. 449, R. T. of T.; also, the
Petition of Shiloh Methodist Church.

By Mr. Reid (Durham}, the Petition of Enfield Division, S. O. T.; also, the Petition
of Stott & Jury of Bowwanville ; also, the Petition of Enfield S. 0. T. No. 41 ; also, the
Petition of Jubilee Council No. 231.

61 Vic. ?TH DECEMBER. 21

By Mr. Grower, the Petition of St. Thomas Centre St. Baptist Church.
By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of the Palmerston Methodist Church.

By Mr. McLean, the Petition of Maitland Lodge No. 304 ; also the Petition of
Seaforth Presbyterian Church ; also, the Petition of Huron Council, R. T. of T,; also, the
Petition of Huron Council No. 95, R. T. of T. Seaforth ; also, the Petition of the Auburn
Epworth League ; also, the Petition of the Chiselhurst R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of
the Village Council of Exeter.

By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of the Erskine Presbyterian Church Hamilton.

By Mr. Dynes, Two Petitions of the Orangeville Methodist Church ; also, the Petition,
of Thomas F. Browne, of Shelburne,

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of Smith's Falls Methodist Church.

By Mr. Preston, the Petition of George J. Hunt of Lanark ; also, the Petition of
Fitzroy Harbour Lodge No. 57, I. 0. G. T.; also, the Petition of Clyde Division No.
409, I. O. G. T.; also, the Petition of the Carleton Place Council R. T. of T., No. 444 ;.
also, the Petition of Clayton Council No. 350, R. T. of T.

By Mr. McKay (Oxford), the Petition of the Town Council of Ingersoll.

•

By Mr. Caven, the Petition of Middle Road Epworth League Bethel Circuit ; also,,
the Petition of Bethel Methodist Church ; also the Petition of Bloomfield R. T. of T.

By Mr. Ferguson, the Petition of the Bothwell Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of
G. N. Babcock ; also, the Petition of J. Crookshank, all of Blenheim; also, the
Petition of the Township Council of Harwich ; also, two Petitions of Ridgetown Meth-
odist Church ; also, the Petition of D. P. McPhail of Highgate ; also, the Petition of E.
Miller of Dresden ; also, the Petition of A. D. Graham of Bothwell.

By Mr. Paton, the Petition of the Elmvale Methodist Church ; also, the Petition^
of the Elmvale Division S. 0. T.; also, the Petition of Allenwood Methodist Church.

By Mr. German, the Petition of Barlow Cumberland and others of Toronto ; also,
the Petition of N. Brewster of Ridgeway ; also, the Petition of Frank D. Noble \ also, the
Petition of J. L. Macarty of Niagara Falls ; also, the Petition of W. J. Macartney of
Thorold ; also the Petition of Niagara Falls South Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of Thorold Beaverdam Division No. 177, S. 0. T.; also, the Petition of Chippewa Mar-
quis of Lome Council R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of the Township Council of Bertie;.
also, the Petition of the Township Council of Niagara Falls South ; also, two Petitions
of the County Council of Welland.

By Mr. Cleland, the Petition of the Brookholm Methodist Church.

By Mr. Bush, the Petition of the Spencerville W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition of H^
W. Jacques of Merrickville.

By Mr. Gibson (Huron), the Petition of the Bluevale Methodist Church.

22 TTH DECEMBER. 1897

By Mr. Lang ford, the Petition of Dwight Lodge I. 0. G. T.; also, the Petition of
Wovar Methodist Church -3 also the Petition of the Village Council of Burks Falls \ also,
the Petition of John Thomson of Bracebridge.

By Mr. Meacham, the Petition of A. W. Grange of Napanee ; also, two Petitions of
Morven and Chambers Methodist Church.

By Mr. Campbell, the Petition of Arnprior St. Andrews Church ; also, the Petition
of Admaston Division S. 0. T.; also, the Petition of Johns Wait of Arnprior.

By Mr. Hobbs, the Petition of the City Council of London ; also, the Petition of the
First Presbyterian Church ; also, the Petition of the Askin Street Methodist Church ; also,
the Petition of the Southern Congregational Church ; also, the Petition of Revd. J. W.
Marsh and others ; also, the Petition of Rev. Richard Hobbs and others ; also, the Petition
of James J. Catling and others ; also, the Petition of the London West Methodist Church ;
also, the Petition of Ira Smith and others ; also, the Petition of Rev. J. R. Moor house
and others ; also, the Petition of the London W. C. T. TL; also, the Petition of W. E.
launders & Co.; also, the Petition of L. T. Lawrence; also, the Petition of James A.
Cairncross ; also, the Petition of W. W. B. Barkwell', also, the Petition of B. A. Mitchell ;
also, the Petition of Frank Holman ; also, the Petition of C. McCollurn ; also the
Petition of N. N. Emerson ; also, the Petition of J. M. Callard ; also, the Petition of
E. W. Boyle; a'so, the Petition of C. Symonds j also, the Petition of John J. Jepson ;
also, the Petition of D. F. Kilgour; also, the Petition of James A. Kennedy, all of London.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the Township Council of Amabel, praying that an Act may pass authorizing the
issue of certain debentures for the purpose of taking up the debentures of the Township
issued in aid of the Stratford and Huron Railway Company.

Of David McLaren and others of Ottawa, praying that an Act may pass to incorpor-
ate the Canadian Consolidated Copper and Nickel Company.

Of the Village Council of Huntsville, praying that an Act may pass to validate By-law
No. 147, relating to Water Works extension.

Of Harry Garland Stubbs of Toronto, praying that an Act may pass declaring that
the Act 57 Vic. cap. 107, Ontario, was not intended to deprive him, and those entitled
under him, of their vested light to possession and control of certain lands in the City of

Toronto.

Of the Township Council of Mersea ; also, of Cardinal Presbyterian Church ; also,
of Gordon Union W. C. T. TL, Toronto ; also, of the Township Council of East Wawanosh ;
also, of Eureka Council No. 103, R. T. of T., Goderich ; also, of Westfield Methodist
Church ; also, of Hampden Church, Normanby ; also, of the County Council of the United
Counties of Northumberland and Durham ; also, of London West Methodist Church ; also,
of Napanee Methodist Church ; also, of Eden Grove Council No. 472, R. T. of T. ; also,
of Chesley Baptist Church ; also, of Chesley Evangelical Association ; also
of Sharbot Lake Methodist Church ; also, of Rawdon Methodist Church ;
of Whitby Division No. 34, S. O. T. ; also, of Bethesda Division

Vic. TTH DECEMBER. 23

No. 372, S. 0. T. ; also, of Rerwood Church ; also, of Glencoe Council R. T. of T ; also,
of Cook's Church, Kingston ; also, of Enterprise Division No. 259, S. O. T , Newmarket ;
also, of Palmerston Council No. 201, R. T. of T. ; also, of Wolfe Island Ridge Congrega-
tion ; also, of Wolfe Island St. Andrew's Church ; also, of Seeley's Bay Amity Lodge
S. O. T. ; also, of Exeter Advance Council No. 207, R. T. of T. ; also, of Komoka Council
No. 499, R. T. of T. ; also, of Township Council of East Nissouri ; also, of Cobden Wolf-
town Lodge ; also, of Bowmanville W. C. T. U. ; also, of Brookholm
Epworth League; also, of' Georgian Bay Division No. 202, S O. T.,
Meaford ; also, of Clinton Street Methodist Church, Toronto ; also, of
•Solmesville Methodist Church ; also, of Vanessa Methodist Church ; also, of Renfrew
Baptist Church ; also, of Eganville R. T. of T. • also, of Bathurst Street W. C. T. U. of
Toronto; also, of Village Council of Hager smile ; also, of Lakelet Methodist Church ; also,
of Brussels Melville Church ; also, of Blnevale Methodist Church ; also, of Ingersoll W.
C. T. U. ; also, of Otterville W. C. T. U. • also, of Ingersoll King Street Methodist
Church ; also, of Porter's Hill South Star Lodge I. 0. G. T. ; also, of Lynedoch Presby-
terian Church ; also, of Township Council of Woodhouse ; also, of Carleton Place R. T. of
T. ; also, of Siloam Division S. O. T. ; also, of Cornwall Knox Church ; al^o, of Stouffville
Council R. T. of T. ; also, of Hawkstone Epworth League ; also, of Rugby Division S. O. T.,
severally praying certain amendments to the L;quor License Law, respecting the power
of a majority of electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of John Thorn of Essex ; also, of Angus Buchanan of Kemptville ; also, of J. E.
Willis of Whifby ; also, of A. H. Allen of Whitby ; also, of A. J. Davis of Port Perry ;
also, of C. H. Allison of Port Perry ; also, of W. F. Eastwood of Claremont ; also, of R.
W. Chambers of Oshawa ; also, of G. C. McFarlane of Glencoe ; also, of F. J. Hoag of
Kingston ; also, of William T. Lloyd of Mt. Albert ; also, of J. P. Lamb of Athens ; also,
of £ Lamb cf Athens] also, of William Hearn ; also, of W. A. Field', also, of A. R
Fraser, all cf Toronto ; also, of W. II. Crooker of Waterdown ; also, of W. A. Lloyd of
Ottawa ; also, of Hugh Duncan of Vankleek Hill ; also, of W. H. H. Martyn of Kincar-
dine ; also, of M. J. Eby of Port Elgin ; also, of W. R. Hilborn of Tara ; also, of D. A.
McCrimmon of Ripiey ; also, of /. G. Douglas of Southampton ; also, of W. A. Ellis ;
also, of J. B. Gullen, all of Toronto ; also, of T. W. Watts of Clinton ; also, of Charles
Wright of Toronto Junction ; also, of G. E. Morrow of Georgetown ; a^o, of John Urqu-
hart of Oakville ; also, of H. W. McCoUom of Milton ; also, of A. Higginbotham of Milton ;
also, of S. B. Clark cf Hanover ; also, of 0. G. Johns of Cobourg ; also, of Richard Wilson
of Cobourg ; also, of John B. Phillips of Delta ; also, of W. Taylor of Harriston ; also, of
W. H. Medley of Kingston ; also, of A. Farncomb of Newcastle] also, of W. A. Karn
also, of James White, all of Woodstock; also, of R. A. Duncan of Embro ; also, of A. W.
Manley ; also, J. M. Callaway ; also, of John Parker ; also, of S. J. Parker ; also, of
Robert Wighiman, all of Owen Sound; also, of W. B. Smith of Hamilton ; also, of S. A.
Hodge of Mitchell ; also of Sidney Fraleigh of St. Marys ; also, of
W. B. Barley of Mitchell; also, /. E. York of Water/ord; also, of W.
A. G. Brown of Wroxeter ; also, of G. A. Deadman of Brussels ; also, of J. S.
McCallum of Smiths Falls ; also, of W. A. Meek of Port Rowan; also, of Charles A,

24 TTH DECEMBER. 1897

Wismer of Norwich ; also, of R. A. Hill of Otterville ; also, of W. Anderson of Otterville ;
also, of F. G. Walley and others of Ingersoll ; also, of Alexander Wilson ; also, of Robert
Lumsden, all of Seaforth ; also, of Thomas Johnston of Toronto ; also, of John Seaton •
also, of J. M. Howard, all of Hagersville ; also, of ^. E. Phillips of Selkirk ; also, of
2). Watterhouse of Toronto, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License
Law, respecting the sale, by Druggists, of alcohol and liquor.

Of Aberdeen Lodge No. 32, I. O, G. T. of Owen Sound ; also, of J. N. Currie and
others; also, of /. C. Gardiner and others, all of West Middlesex-, also, of Sharbot
Lake Mission Methodist Church ; also, of Gordon Union W. 0. T. U. of Toronto ; also, of
Simpson Avenue Methodist Church, Toronto East ; also, E. W. Blair and others ; also,
of William Anderson and others, all of Goderich; also, of Eureka Council No. 103, R. T.
of T. ; also, of Mimico Presbyterian Church ; also, of Robert Harkness and others of
Northcote ; also, of Belgrave Presbyterian Church ; also, of Robert Young and others ; also,
of Alexander Cloakey and others, all of Huron East ; also, of Burgessville R. T. of T.,
severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the transaction
of business on the Lord's Day.

On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. Ross,

Ordered, That a Special Committee of Twelve Members be appointed to prepare and
report with all convenient speed, lists of Members to compose the Select Standing Com-
mittees ordered by this House, to be composed as follows : The Attorney-General and
Messieurs Gibson (Hamilton), Dry den, Charlton, Conmee, Ferguson, Haycock, McKay
(Oxford), McLean^ McNicol, Marter, Whitney and Willoughby.

On motion of the Attorney -General, seconded by Mr. Ross,

Ordered, That a Select Committee be appointed to act with Mr. Speaker in the
control and management of the Library, to be composed as follows : The Attorney-
General and Messieurs Harcourt, Ross, Bennett, Caven, Davis, Gibson (Huron), McKay
( Victoria), Matheson, Stratton and Whitney.

The Order of the Day for resuming the Adjourned Debate on the Motion for con-
sideration of the Speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor at the opening of the
Session, having been read,

The Debate was resumed,

And after some time

Mr. Miscampbell moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. St. John, That the following
words be added to the proposed Address : " We join in the regret expressed by Your
Honour with reference to the increased duty imposed by the Government of the United
States on pine and other lumber imported into that country, and also regret that the
Government of the Province has not taken steps to compel the manufacture into lumber
in Canada of all saw logs cut under licenses issued by the Department of Crown Lands."

And a Debate arising,

Ordered, That the Debate be adjourned until To-morrow.

The House then adjourned at 10.45 p.m.

61 Vic. STH DECEMBER. 25

Wednesday, 8th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Harty, the Petition of the Kingston First Baptist Church, Young Peoples'
Union.

By Mr. Farwell, the Petition of Wharncliffe Epworth League ; also, the Petition of
Day Mills Epworth League ; also, the Petition of Eastern Algoma Prohibition Association ;
also, the Petition of the Township Council of Drury, Denison and Graham ; also, the
Petition of Sault Ste. Marie Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of George A. Hunter of
Sault Ste. Marie ; also, the Petition ot A. G. Rigley of Little Current.

By Mr. Miscampbell, the Petition of the Qrillia Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of St. James Church ; also, the Petition of Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of Baptist
Sunday School, all of Orillia ; also, the Petition of David H. Church of Orillia ; also, the
Petition of Fesserton S. O. T. ; also, the Petition of the Orillia Methodist Sunday School ;
also, the Petition of the Shakespeare Club, Orillia ; also, the Petition of St. James Church
Bible Class, Orillia.

By Mr. Whitney, the Petition of the Van Camp Church, Mountain.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of the Agnes Street Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of the Journeymen Bakers Union No. 1, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Burt, the Petition of the Methodist Church, St. George.

By Mr. McKay (Victoria), the Petition of the Lindsay W. C. T. U. ; also, the
Petition of the Dalrymple Mission Sebright ; also, of the Woodville Methodist Church ;
also, of the Township Council of Ops ; also, the Petition of E, E. W. McGafey and others
of Lindsay ; also, the Petition of Peter Hawkins and others of Ops ; also, the Petition of
Revd. George H. Kenney and others of Dunsford ; also, the Petition of Joseph Baines
and others of Kinmount ; also, the Petition of J. W. Bunner and others of Haliburtor*
also, the Petition of F. Dawson and others of Omemee.

By Mr. McKee, the Petition of Golden Star Lodge No. 570, I. 0. G. T., Maidstone>
Cross ; also, the Petition of /. E. 0. Anjour • also, the Petition of H. 0. Fleming ; also-
the Petition of D. J. Matthew of Windsor ; also, the Petition of A. J. Williamson, all
of Windsor ; also, the Petition of the Sisters of St. Joseph Diocese of Toronto.

By Mr. Little, the Petition of the Thornton S. 0. T. ; also, the Petition of Beeton.
Junction Epworth League.

By Mr. Moore, the Petition of Preston Council No. 204, R. T. of T. ; alto, the
Petition of Doon R. T. of T. ; also, the Petition of Branchton Methodist Church ; also,,
the Petition of Bonnie Doon Council No. 551, R. T. of T. of Doon ; also, the Petition of
Preston Council No. 204, R. T. of T. ; also, the Petition of W. H. Boulhe of New Ham-
burg

26 STH DECEMBER. 1897

By Mr. Garrow, the Petition of Calvin Ohurch Y. P. B. C., St. Helens ; also, the
Petition of the Forester's Court of St. Helens ; also, the Petition of 0. C. Campbell of
Wingham ; also, the Petition of J. E. Davis ; also, the Petition of W. C. Goode ; also,
the Petition of Samuel McAllister and others, all of Goderich.

By Mr. Craig, two Petitions of the County Council of: Wellington ; also, the
Petition of West Garafraxa Bethel Epworth League ; also, the Petition of the Mount
Forest Baptist Y. P. S.

By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of the Bethany Congregation, Salem Circuit.

By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of E. C. Mitchell of Kingston ; also, the Petition of
Wilmur S. O. T.; also, the Petition of Wolfe Island St. Andrews Church.

By Mr. McLaren, the Petition of H. G. Eger ; also; the Petition of W. W. Allen ;
also, the Petition of the Ohurch of the Redeemer ; also, the Petition of the Methodist
Church ; also, the Petition of Epworth League Methodist Church, all of Deseronto ; also,
the Petition of Marlbank W. 0. T. IT.

By Mr. McNaughton, the Petition of George S. Armstrong of Lions Head; also, the
Petition of Elmwood Evangelical Association ; also, the Petition of the Township Council
of Eastnor.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of the Aultsville Methodist Church.

By Mr. Blezard, the Petition of Lakefield Presbyterian Church ; also, the Petition
of the Warsaw Epworth League ; also, the Petition of Westwood I. O. G. T.; also, the
Petition of Wilberforce S. 0. T,; also, the Petition of South Dttmmer Epworth League ;
also, the Petition of Westwood Epworth League ; also, the Petition of Warsaw Circuit
Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of Westwood I. O. G. T.

By Mr. Smith, the Petition of E. J. Kibblewhite of Alton ; also, the Petition of R. H.
Hodgson of Brampton ; also, the Petition of the To vnship Council of Toronto ; also, the
Petition of Summerville S. O. T.; also, the Petition of William Naish ani others of
Streetsville ; also, the Petition of D. J. McClure and others of Churchville ; also, the
Petition of J. E. Sanderson and others of Chinguacousy.

By Mr. St. John, the Petition of Revd. F. H. DuVernet and others of Toronto
Junction ; also, the Petition of Teston Lodge No. 199, I. O. G. T.

By Mr. Hobbs, the Petition of the A skin Street Methodist Church, London.
By Mr. Hiscott, the Petition of St. David Methodist Ohurch.

By Mr. Kerns, the Petition of Henry Wilson and others of Oakville ; also, the
Petition of Milton Council No. 61, R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of A. T. Brown of
Acton.

By Mr. Patiullo, the Petition of the Village Council of Embro \ also, the Petition of
Platsville R. T. of T ; also, the Petition of E. Bromley of Bright.

By Mr Auld, the Petition of Mount Carmel Church, South Mersea.

By Mr. Taylor, the Petition of Adelaide Bethel Congregation Methodist Ohurch ;
also, the Petition of Strathroy Epworth League ; also, the Petition of Revd. Fulton
Irwin, all of Adelaide.

Vic. STH DECEMBER. 27

By Mr. Dickenson, the Petition of Abingdon Presbyterian Church.
By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of Palmerston Epworth League.
By Mr. Chappie, the Petition of Atherley R. T. of T. No. 461.

By Mr. Mutrie, the Petition of Aberfoyle R. T. of T.; also the Petition of S. Neill
others of Guelph.

By Mr. Currie, the Petition of W. J. Corbett of Creemore ; also, the Petition of
F. J. Stewart of Stayner ; also, the Petition of A. H. Johnson of Collingwood j also,
the Petition of T. S. Grimshaw of Stayner ; also, the Petition of Bay Council No. 108,
R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of Ruskview Division No. 321, S. 0. T.; also, the Petition
of Uttopia Epworth League ; also, the Petition of Duntroon St. Paul's Presbyterian
Church ; also, the Petition of the Village Council of Creemore.

By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of Port Granby Methodist Church.

By Mr. Langford, the Petition of the Huntsvitte Metho iist Church ; also, the
Petition of the Township Council of Stisted.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of Avenue Road St. Paul's Methodist Church, Toronto.

By Mr. Shore, the Petition of Dorchester Station Methodist Church; also, the Petition
of West Nissouri Baptist Church.

By Mr. Carpenter, the Petition of the Tilsonburg Methodist Church.

By Mr. Biggar, two Petitions of the Grand Tr unk' Rail way Company of Canada;
also, the Petition of the St. Glair Tunnel Company ; also, the Petition of the Town Council
of Sarnia • also, the Petition of the Town Council of Midland \ also, the Petition of F.
C. Clarke ; also, the Petition \>f Frank Dowling \ also, the Petition of D, M. Waters ;
also, the Petition of Albert Green ; also, the Petition of A. Ray, all of Belleville ; also,
the Petition of W. Booth ; also, the Petition of J. H. Dickey ; also, the Petition of James
Shurie, all of Trenton ; also, the Petition of Belleville W. C. T. U. ; also, the Petition of
Belleville Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of the Belleville Ministerial Association ;
also, the Petition of Belleville Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of Belleville Wesley
Epworth League.

By Mr. Carnegie, the Petition of Bobcaygeon Presbyterian Church.

By Mr. Cleland, the Petition of J. A. Stewart] also, the Petition of Thomas Mc-
Carroll, all of Meaford ; also, the Petition of J. G. M. Sloam of Shallow Lake ; also, the
Petition of W. H. Taylor of Owen Sound.

By Mr. McNeill, the Petition of Carlingford Epworth League ; also, the Petition of
Fullarton Epworth League.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of Perth Baptist Y. P. S. 0. E.

By Mr. Brower, the Petition of St. Thomas Council No. 35, R. T. of T.

By Mr. Beatty Leeds), the Petition of R. J. Whaley of Westport ; also, the Petition
of Athens Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of Athens Epworth League ; also, the
Petition of Sand Bay Division S. O. T. No. 241.

28 STH DECEMBER. 1897

By Mr. Fallis, the Petition of A. Leach of Millbrook ; also, the Petition of Safety
Council No. 55, R. T. of T. -, also, the Petition of Mount Pleasant Methodist Church ;
also, the Petition of Wesleyville C. E. Society ; also, the Petition of W. W. Gillott and
others of MUlbrook.

By Mr. Meacham, the Petition of the Town Council of Napanee ; also, the Petition
of Bath Circuit Methodist Church.

By Mr. McKay (Oxford), the Petition of M. Durkee and others of Otterville.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the Sandwich^ Windsor and Amherstburg Railway Company, praying that an Act
may pass to extend the time for the construction of Road, and for other purposes.

Of the County Council of Wellington^ praying certain amendments to the High
School Act, respecting the maintenance of pupils.

Of the Brock Street Methodist Church, Kingston ; also of Parliament Street Methodist
Church, Toronto ; also, of Fullarton Methodist Church ; also, of the Township Council of
St. Vincent ; also, of the Drayton Methodist Church ; also, of the Wiarton R. T. of T. ;
also, of the Aberfoyle Methodist Church ; also, of Guelph R. T. of T. ; also, of the Ridge-
town Sunday School ; also, of Blenheim Council No. 72 R. T. of T. ; also, of Birr Up-
worth League ; also, of Merritton R. T. of T. ; also, of the Township Council of Gains-
borough j also, cf the JToK Bayham Methodist Chuich ; also, of Union R. T. of T. ; alto,
of Siloam Epworth League ; also, of Sydenham Methodist Church ; also, of Battersea
Methodist Church ; also, of Erskine Presbyterian Church, Hamiltom ; also, of Arnprior
Methodist Church ; also, of the Village Council of Delhi ; also, of Walsingham Centre
Methodist Church; also, of the Township Council of Whitchurch\ also, of Bathurst Methodist
Church ; also, of Stanton Council R. T. of T. ; also, of Township Council of Mulmur ;
also, of Cornwall W. C. T. U. ; also, of Tecumseth Sunday School ; also, of Thompson-
ville Snider Lodge, I. 0. G. T. ; also, of Pine River Bethel Epworth League ; also, of the
Township Council of Madoc ; also, of the Centreville Presbyterian Church ; also, of the
Centreville Methodist Church ; also, of the Blackheath Presbyterian Church ; also, of the
Cheyne Presbyterian Church of SaltHeet ; also, of the Lyn Epworth League ; also, of the
Frankville and Toledo Methodist Church ; also, of the Morrisburgh Methodist Church ;
also, of the West Flamborot Rose Council R. T. of T. ; also, of the Carlisle Methodist
Sunday School ; also, of Deer Park W. C. T. U. ; severally praying certain amendments
to the Liquor License Law respecting the power of a majority of electors to further
limit the hours of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of W. 0. Foster of St. Thomas \ also, of C. E. Shaw of Rockwood ; also, of A. B.
Petrie ; also, of C. Law, all of Guelph ; also, of Nelson McLaughlin of Gorrie ; also, of
A. M. Spence of Goderich ; also, of W. B. Graham of Ridgetown \ also, of D. W. Eastman
of Smithville ; also, of Henry Pafford of Niagara ; also, of H. Southcott ; also of George
Mittelbergert all of St. Catharines ; also, of James Fielding of Pcembroke ; also, of George
Forbes of Beachburg ; also, of D. J. Sutherland of Chesley ; also, of W. J. Atkins of
Madoc ; also, of M. J. Beeman of Newburg ; also, of D. E. Rose of Tamworth ; also of
George R. McCole of St. Thomas ; a1 so of F. R. Curry of Brockvi le ; al^o, of J. O.

61 Vic. STB AND 9xn DECEMBER. 29

McGregor of Waterdown , also, of J. R. Bond of Toronto ; also, of - William Bow of Win-
chester ; also, of Hallville I. O. G. T. ; also, of #. #. Bauld of loronto ; also of Charles
G. Wilson of Madoc ; also, of J. (7. Cooke of Kincardine ; also, of .4. Turner of Orange-
mile ; also, of JF. Z. Campbell of Bradford ; also, of Jo/m Stevenson of Orangeville ; also,
of ZJ. /7. Brown of Cornwall ; also, of /*. 7?. Davidson of Ottawa ; also, of 72. C. Balmer
of OakvUle ; also, of Z*. 0. Campbell of Aylmer ; also of 6s. Jt/. Hutchings of Cannington ;
also, of «7. ^. Richards of Aylmer ; also, of James Clarke of Renfrew ; also, of .4. T7. Budd
of Arnprior ; also, of »7. McLean of /Sfc. Marys ; also, of /?. i<'. Shillington of Ottawa ; also,
of Cochrane & Flaunt of Renfrew ; also, of «7bAn 72. Byers of Oakville ; also, of /. 72. Zee ;
also, of Z>. Thompson ] also, of .4. Z). Deverell ; also, of ^. Tuthill, all of Toronto \ severally
praying certain amendments to the License Law respecting the sale, by druggists, of
liquor and alcohol.

Of 77ews/ /. JFa«s and others of 5iVr ; also, of the Bathurst Street W. 0. T. TJ. ;
also, of Willard Union ; also, of Bricklayers Union ; also, of T. II. J. Kerr and others ;
also, of the Queen Street Methodist Church, all of Toronto ; also, of George H. Wright
and others ; also, of D. Stocks and others all of Niagara \ severally praying certain amend-
ments to the Lords Day Act, respecting the transaction of business on the Lords Day.

Of the County Council of Halton, respecting the compulsory erection of Poor Houses
in Counties.

The Order of the Day for resuming the Adjourned Debate on the Motion for con-
sideration of the Speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Go vernor of the opening of the
Session, and the Amendment thereto, having been read,

The Debate was resumed,

And after some time, it was,

Ordered, That the Debate be further adjourned until To morrow.

The House then adjourned at 11 25 p.m.

Thursday, 9th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.

PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Davis, the Petition of Kettleby Division S. 0. T. No. 232 ; also, the Petition
of the Victoria University.

By Mr, Hardy, the Petition of J. A. Wright and others ; also, the Petition of R. T.
of T. ; also, the Petition of F. W. Menel ; also, the Petition of D. Secord ; also, the

30 9TH DECEMBER. 189T

Petition of F. G. Pearson ; also, the Petition of S. Tapscott ; also, the Petition of W. H.
Robertson ; also, the Petition of B. Batchelor, all of Brant ford ; also, the Petition of
Middlesex R. T. of T.

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of North Ekfrid Union Council No. 169, R. T. of T. ;
also, the Petition of Middlemiss Epworth League ; also, the Petition of Revd. G. H.
Cobbledick and others of Middlesex.

By Mr. Whitney, the Petition of Inkerman Epworth League

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of Orient Division No. 312 S. 0. T., Toronto.

By Mr. St. John, the Petition of Lewis F. Riggs of Toronto.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of the City Council of Toronto.

By Mr. Farwell, the Petition of the Sault Ste. Marie Epworth League.

By Mr. Pardo, the Petition of the Thornclifte Baptist Church ; also, of Glenwood
Council No. 552 R. T. of T. ; also, the Petition of R. G. Burt of Chatham.

By Mr. Fallis, the Petition of the W. C. T. U. of Port Hope.

By Mr. McLean, the Petition of J. G. Yelland and others ; also, the Alma and Turner
Methodist Churches of Tuckersmith.

By Mr. Auld, the Petition of the Methodist Congregation of Amherstburg.

By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of the Salem Congregation of the Methodist Church
of Greenock.

By Mr. Gibson (Huron), the Petition of James Fox, of Brussels.

By Mr. Hiscott, the Petition of the Methodist Church of Merritton.

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of the Christian Endeavor Society of Fort Stewart.

By Mr. Little, the Petition of Wesley Graham and others ; also, the Petition of (7.
Hounsome and others ; also, the Petition of the Methodist Church of Bond Head ; also,
the Petition of the Methodist Church of West Gwillimbury ; also, the Petition of the
Methodist Church of Newton Robinson ; also, the Petition of John Robinson and others
of Bond Head.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of Knox Church of Cornwall ; also, the Petition of
Knox Church of Roxborough , also, the Petition of the W. C. T. U. of Wales ; also, the
Petition of the French Presbyterian Church of Cornwall.

By Mr. O'Keefe, the Petition of the Bell Street Methodist Sabbath School of Ottawa ;
also, the Petition of the Epworth League of Christian Endeavor of Bell Street Methodist
Church of Ottawa.

By Mr. Meacham, the Petition of Chester Nicholson and others ; also, the Bethel
Society of the Methodist Church on the Bath Circuit ; also, the Petition of Henry Creigh-
ton and others ; also, the Petition of Knox Church, Binbrook ; also, the Petition of Arthur
Huffman and others ; also, the Petition of R. W. Johnson and others ; also, the Petition
of F. Barriage and others ; also, the Petition of J. D. Davison and others ; also, the
Petition of H. Calver.

OTH DECEMBER. 31

By Mr. Charlton, the Petition of the Methodist Congregation of Cultus; also, the
Petition of the Methodist Church of Cheapside ; also, the Petition of the Methodist Church
of Nanticoke.

By Mr. Beatty (Parry Sound), the Petition of the Township Council of Perry;
also, the Petition of the Official Board of the Methodist Charch of Parry Sound ; also,
the Petition of Midlothian Lodge No. 115, I. O. G. T.; also, the fPetition of Doe Lake
Lodge No. 127 ; also, the Petition of the Epworth League of Christian Endeavor of the
Methodist Church of Parry Sound; also, the Petition of the Doe Lake Christ i m En-
deavor Society of Ryerson.

By Mr. Robertson, the Petition of Berlin Council No. 332, R. T. of T.; also, the
Petition of the United Brethren Church of Berlin ; also, the Petition of the Christian
Endeavor Society of the U. B. Church of Berlin; also, the Petition .of the W. C. T. U.
of Waterloo ; also, the Petition of C. E. Hoffman ; also, the Petition J. E. Neville all
of Berlin ; also, the Petition of A. J. Ross of Berlin ; also, the Petition of H. A. Zodlner;
also, the Petition of E. M. Devitt ; also, the Petition of H. T. Zoellner all of Waterloo ;
also, the Petition of John S. Wideman of St. Jacobs ; also, the Petition of A. Werner of
Elmira.

By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of Palmerston Knox Church.

By Mr. Blezard, the Petition of the Township Council of Douro.

By Mr. Lang/ord, the Petition of the Hillside Mission.

By Mr. Carpenter, the Petition of the Verschoyle W. 0. T..TL

By Mr. Oaven, the Petition of Wellington Methodist Church.

By Mr. Garrow, the Petition of James Wilson of Goderich ; also, the Petition of
T. Chisholm of Wingham ; also, the Petition of Auburn Maitland Lodge No. 304,
I. O. G. T.; also, the Petition of Sidney M. Whaly and others of St. Helens; also, the
Petition of Blyth St. Andrew's Church ; also, the Petition of the Pure Retreat S. 0. T.
of Ben Miller.

By Mr. Hobbs, the Petition of W. T. Strong of London.

By Mr. Mutrie, the Petition of Alexander Stewart of Guelph ; also, the Petition of
Mitt Creek R. T. of T. Aberfoyle.

By Mr. Beattie (Leeds\ the Petition of Gananoque Council R. T. of T.; also, the
Petition of Smith's Falls Methodist Church.

By Mr. Richardson, the Petition of H. Brodie of Markham ; also, the Petition of
Scarboro Junction Division S. O. T. York ; also, the Petition of East Toronto Division,
No. 318, S. 0. T.

By Mr. Taylor, the Petition of Ilderton English Settlement ; also, the Petition of
Parkhill Baptist Congregation.

By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of Sydenham Methodist Church.

By Mr. Brower, the Petition of Corinth W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Reid (Addington), the Petition of Enterprise Methodist Church.

32 9TH DECEMBER. 1897

By Mr. Kearns, two Petitions of Palermo Division S. U. T., No. 143 ; also, the
Petition of Fidelity Council No. 59, R. T. of T.

By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of Newcastle R T. of T.

By Mr. Ferguson, the Petition of E. T. of T. No. 72 j also, the Petition of Euphemia
Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of Zone Baptist Church.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of Perth Ministerial Association.

By Mr. Shore, the Petition of Dorchester Station Presbyterian Ohurch.

By Mr. Moore, the Petition of Preston W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition of New
Hope Council No. 66, R. T. of T.

By Mr. Currie, the Petition of West Nottawasaga Presbyterian Church.

By Mr. Pattullo, the Petition of the Village Council of Embro.

By Mr. Paton, the Petition of Crown Hill Epworth League ; also, the Petition of
D. H. MacLaren.

By Mr. Preston, the Petition of Clyde Division. No. 403, S. 0. T.; also, the Petition
of Carp Branch, W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Kidd, the Petition of the Village Council of Ottawa East ; also, the
Petition of Malakoft Methodist Ohurch; also, the Petition of North Gower Metho-
dist Church ; also, the Petition of Victoria Methodist Church.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the Town Council of Berlin, praying that an Act may pass to validate By-law
No. 586, granting a bonus to D. Hibner & Co.

Of the Town Council of Colling wood, praying that an Act may pass authorizing the
corporation to submit a By-law to the ratepayers, granting a bonus to the Grand Trunk
Railway Company, and for other purposes.

Of the Town Council of Ingersoll, praying that an Act may pass to validate By-law No.
499.

Of the Oity Council of London, praying that an Act may pass to confirm the annexa-
tion of the Village of London West to the City ; to legalize By-law No. 1009, and for
other purposes.

Of Barlow Cumberland and others of Toronto, praying that an Act may pass to
empower the sale of lands of the Shebandowan Mining Company and to incorporate
the Frue Shebandowan Geld Mining Company, Limited.

Of the Town Council of Trenton, praying that an Act may pass to authorize the sale,
for taxes, of certain lands in the Town, and to validate certain tax sales, and for other
purposes.

Of the County Council of Welland, praying that insane persons may, upon certificate,
be committed direct to an insane asylum, there to be examined by experts.

Of the County Council of Welland, praying certain amendments to the High School
Act, respecting the County Pupils.

'61 Vic. 9TH DECEMBER. 33

Of E, j/fordenamd others of Niagara South, prayirg for the appointment of an in-
spector of Seeds in order to prevent the spread of noxious weeds.

Of the Bradford Methodist Church ; also, of the Marquis of Lome Council R. T.
of T.; also, of Ridgetown Methodist Church ; also, of First Presbyterian Church;
also, of Askin Street Methodist Church ; also, of Southern Congregational Church, all of
London ; also, of the Township Council of Harwich ; also, of the Elmvale Methodist
Ohurch ; also, of Elmvale Division S. 0. T. , also, of Allenwood Methodist Church ; also,
of the Township Council of Bertie; also, of the Methodist Ohurch, Niagara Falls South; also,
of Beaverdam Division No. 177, S. O. T. ; also, of Bethel Circuit Middle Road Epworth
League ; also, of the Bethel Methodist Church ; also, of Bothwell Baptist Church ; also, of
Brooklyn Methodist Church ; also, of Fitzroy Harbour Lodge No. 57, T. 0. G. T. ; also,
of Clyde Division No. 409 of Lanark ; also, of Erskine Presbyterian Church Hamilton ;
also, of Orangeville Methodist Church ; also, of Smiths Falls Methodist Church ; also, of
the Village Council of Exeter ; also, of Huron Council R. T. of T. ; also, of Chiselhurst
R. T. of T. ; also, of Auburn Methodist Church ; also, of Spencerville W. 0. T. U. ; also,
of Bluevale Methodist Church ; also, of Dwight Lodge I. 0. G. T. ; also, of Novar Meth-
odist Ohurch ; also, of the Village Council of Burks Falls ; also, of Aultsville S. 0. T. ;
also, of Toronto Central W. C. T. U. ; also, of Toronto Council No. 1, R. T. of T. ; also,
of Port Credit Methodist Church ; also, of Port Credit S. 0. T ; also, of Strathroy Pro-
hibition League ; also, of Wellandport Methodist Church ; also, of Toronto District R T.
of T. ; also, of Morrisburg Epworth League ; also, of Dundas R. T. of T. ; also, of Mer-
ritton Presbyterian Ohurch ; also, of North Pelham Division S. O. T. ; also, of Queenston
Methodist Church ; also, of Ottawa Division S. O. T. ; also, of Grenock Methodist Church ;
also, of Thompsonville Methodist Church ; also, of Egan Creek Methodist Church ; also,
of East Nissouri Baptist Church ; also, of Elmbank S. O. T. ; also, of the Township
Council of Gosfield North ; also, of South Mersea Epworth League ; also, of Centrevitte
0. E. Society ; also, of Tilsonburg Methodist Church ; also, of Udney R. T. of T. ; also,
of Shiloh Methodist Ohurch; also, of Enfield Division No. 41, S. O. T. ; also, of Jubilee
Council of Clarke ; also, of St. Thomas Baptist Church ; also, of Ridgetown Methodist
Church ; also, of Morven and Chambers Methodist Church ; also, of Palmerston Methodist
Church, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Act, respecting the
power of a majority of the electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where
license in force.

Of J. A. Thompson of Toronto ; also, of E. Miller of Dresden ; also, of A. D. Gra-
ham of Bothwell ; also, of D. P. McPhail ; also, of A. W. Grange all of Napanee ; also, of
John Thompson of Bracebridge ; also, of h. W. Jaques of Merrickville ; also, of G. W.
Spackman; also, of N. Brewster of Ridgeway; also, of J. L. Macartney; also, of Frank
D% Noble of Port Colborne ; also, of W. J. Macartney of Thorold ; also, of J. Crookshanks
of Blenheim; also, of John T. Wait; also, of G. N. Babcock of Ridgetown; also, of
George J. Hunt of Lanark ; also, of T. F. Brown of Shelbume ; also, of A. McKinnon of
Kincardine; also, of Stott & Jury of Bowmanville ; also, of James H. Fleming of St.
George ; also, of E. F. Darby of Harrow ; also, of J. W. Petch ; also, of W. McSween of
Leamington; also, of Addison, Greenbush, New Dublin and Rockspring Methodist Church;

3 J.

34 9TH DECEMBER. 1897

also, of P. K. McMillan of Brockville ; also, of James Williams of Brockville ; als\ of
A. Vincent & Co ; also, of Otto G. Palm ; also, of George Parke ; also, of George H.
Hinch ; also, of Frederick W. Mills; also, of Harrison Bros,; also of John P. Hennessey;
also, of Andrew Rutherford; also, of David J. Leitch ; also, of W. T. Armour ; all of
Hamilton; also, of B. A. Mitchell; also, of Frank Holman; also, of C. McCallum; also,
of N. W. Emerson; also, of D. 0. Kilgour; also, of C. Symonds; also, of John J. Jepson;
also, of E. W. Boyle; also, of J. W. Collar d ; also, of W. B. Barkwell ; also, of James A.
Cairncross ; also, of L. T. Lawrence; also, of W. Saunders; also, of James A. Kennedy r
all of London, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law respect-
ing the sale, by Druggists, of liquor and alcohol.

Of E. S. Shorley and others of Morven ; also, of (Jlayton Council No. 350 ; also, of
the Revd. J. W. Marsh and others ; also, of James J. Catling and others ; also, of J. W+
Sauriby and others ; also, of Ira Smith and others ; also of Revd. J. H. Moorhouse and
others ; also, of the W. C. T. U. all of London ; also, of W. G. Smyth and others of
Rowena ; also, of J. A. Barclay and others of Dundee ; also, of the Wardsville St. James*
Church ; also, of the Revd. R. Hobbs and others of London ; also, of Ircquois W. C. T. U".;
also, of Auburn Lodge I. O. G. T. West Peterborough ; also, of Knox Church Sunday
School, Cornwall ; also, of J. W. Silcox and others of Cornwall ; also, of Moulinette
W. C. T. U.; also, of St. Lawrence Council No. 414 R. T. of T.; also, of the Parkdale W. C.
T. TL; also, of Enfteld B. 0. T.; also, of Komoka Council No. 449 R. T. of T.; also, of
Orangeville Methodist Church; also, of Maitland Lodge I. 0. G. T.; also, of Huron
Council R. T. of T.; also, of Carleton Place Council No. 444 K. T. of T.j also, of Seaforth
First Presbyterian Church ; also, of Iroquois Methodist Church ; also, of Hallville I. (X
G. T. ; also, of William White and others ; also, of Arnprior Sf. Andrew's Church ; also,
of Bloomfield R. T. of T.; also, of Revd. George Walker of Cookstown ; aho, of St. Cathar-
ines Congregational Church; also, of Admaston Division S. 0. T ; also, of Haynesville-
Ohurch ; also, of H. H. Ross and others ; also, of Wesley Sunday School ; also, of Brin-
ston's Corners Methodist Church ; also, of Glovers Methodist Church, severally praying
certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act respecting the transaction of business on the
Lord's Day.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from the Special Committee appointed to prepare and
report with all convenient speed, Lists of Members to compose the Select Standing
Committees ordered by the House, presented the following list as their Report, which
was read as follows : —

COMMITTEE ON LEGAL BILLS —The Attorney General, and Messieurs Chappie, Davis,
Farwell, Garrow, German, Gibson (Hamilton), Haycock, McKay (Oxford), McNaughton>
Marter, Ross, St. John and Whitney — 14.

The Quorum of said Committee to consist of Five members.

COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.— The Attorney-General, and Messieurs Auld,
Charlton, Cleland, Conmee, Crawford, Davis, Field, Garrow, German, Harcourt, Harty,
Haycock, Kerns, Kidd, Loughrin,' McPherson, McNicol, Macnish Marter, Matheson,.
Meacham, Middleton, Stratton, St. John, Whitney and Willoughby— 27.

6'1 Vic. 9TH DECEMBER. 35.

The Quorum of said Committee to consist of Seven members.

COMMITTEE ON PRINTING. — Messieurs Auld, Baxter, Beatty (Leeds), Bush, Craigy
Crawford, Gibson (Huron), Har court, McLean, McPherson, Ross, Stratton, Tucker
and Willoughby — 14.

The Quorum of said Committee to consist of Five members.

COMMITTEE ON PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS — The Attorney-General and Mesfeieurs
Bennett, Biggar, Blezard, Bronson, Bush, Campbell, Caven, Chappie, Charlton, Currie,
Dana, Davis, Dry den, Dynes, Farwdl, Flatt, Gamey, Gibson (Hamilton), H agger ty,
Har court, Hiscott. Hobbs, Kldd, McCallum, McKay (Victoria), McKee, McNaughton,
McPherson, Marter, Miseampbell, O'Reefe, Pardo, Patton, Pattullo, Robertson, Ross,,
St. John, Taylor and Whitney— 40.

The Quorum of said Committee to consist of Nine members.

COMMITTEE ON STANDING ORDERS. — Messieurs. Barr, Beatty (Leeds), Beatty (Parry
Sound), Bennett, Biggar, Brower, Burt, Bush, Campbell, Carnegie, Carpenter, Caven,
Charlton, Cleland, Davis, Dickenson, Farwell, Ferguson, Field, German, Gibson (Huron),
Haycock, Kidd, Langford, Little, Loughrin, McKay (Oxford), McNeil, Matheson,
Middleton, Moore, Reid (Durham), Reid (Addington), Richardson, Robertson, Shore,
Smith, Stratton, Truax and Tucker— 40.

The Quorum of said Committee to consist of Seven members.

COMMITTEE ON RAILWAYS. — The Attorney -General, and Messieurs Baxter, Beatty
(Leeds), Beatty (Parry Sound), Biggar, Blezard, Bronson, Brower, Burt, Campbell, Car-
negie, Carpenter, Chappie, Charlton^ Cleland, Conmee, Currie, Dana, Davis, Dry den,
Dynes, Fallis, Farwell, Ferguson, Flatt, Garrow, German, Gibson (Hamilton), Gibson
(Huron), Gurd, Haggerty, Harty, Haycock, Hiscott, Hobbs, Kerns, Kidd, Langford,
Loughrin, McKay ( Victoria), McKee, McLaren, McLean, McNaughton. McNicol, Macnish,
McPherson, Magwood, Marter, Meacham, Miscampbell, Moore, Mutrie, O'Keefe, Paton,
Preston, Reid (Addington), Reid (Durham), Richardson, Robillard, Ryerson, Shore, Smith,
Stratton, Whitney, Willoughby— §Q.

The Quorum of said Committee to consist of Nine members.

COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE BILLS. — The Attorney-General, and Messieurs Auld, Barr>
Baxter, Bennett, Biggar, Blezard, Bronson, Burt, Campbell, Carpenter, Caven, Chappie^
Conmee, Craig, Crawford, Currie, Dana, Davis, Dickenson, Dynes, Fallis, Fergusont
Field, Flatt, Gamey, Garrow, German, Gibson (Hamilton), Gibson (Huron), Gurd, His-
cott, Hobbs, Kerns, Kidd, Langford, Little, Loughrin, McCallum, McDonald, McKay
(Oxford), McLaren, McLean, McNaughton, McNeil, Macnish, Magwood, Matheson, Mea-
cham, Middleton, Mutrie, O'Keefe, Pardo, Paton, Pattullo, Preston, Reid (Addington),
Reid (Durham), Robertson, Ryerson, Smith, St. John, Stratton, Taylor, Truax, Tucker ,
Whitney, Willoughby — 68.

The Quorum of said Committee to consist of Nine members.

9TH DECEMBER

1897

COMMITTEE ON MUNICIPAL LAW. — The Attorney- General, and Messieurs Barr, Beatty
{Leeds), Bennett, Blezard, Bronson, Brower, Hurt, Bush, Campbell, Carnegie, Carpenter,
Caven, Chappie, Cleland, Craig, Crawford, Currie, Dana, Davis, Dickenson, Dryden,
Dynes, Ferguson, Field, Flatt, Gamey, Garrow, German, Gibson (Huron), Gurd, Haggertyt
Haycock, Hobbs, Kerns, Kidd, Little, Loughrin, Magwood, Marter, Meacham, Middleton,
Moore, Mutrie, McCallum, McDonald, McKay (Oxford), McKay (Victoria), McKee,
McLaren, McNaughton, McNeil, McNicol, Macnish, O'Keefe, Paton, Pattullo, Pardo,
Preston, Reid (Addington), Richardson, Robertson, Robillard, Ross, Ryerson, St. John,
Stratton, Taylor, Truax, Whitney, Willoughby — 70.

The Quorum of said Committee to consist of Seven members.

Resolved, that this House doth concur in the above Report.

On motion of Mr. Harcourt, seconded by Mr. Dryden,

Ordered, That the Public Accounts of the Province of Ontario for the ten months
-of the year 1897, ending 31st October, be referred to the Standing Committee on Public
Accounts.

The Order of the Day for resuming the Adjourned Debate on the Motion for con-
sideration of the Speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor of the opening of the
Session, and the Amendment thereto, having been read,

The Debate was resumed,
And after some time,

Mr. Haycock moved in amendment to the Amendment, seconded by Mr. Caven,

That all the words of the Amendment, after the word " Country " be struck out, and
the following inserted in lieu thereof, " and we have learned with satisfaction that a
measure dealing with the question will, during the present Session, be laid before the
House for consideration."

And the amendment to the ^Amendment, having been put, was carried on the
following division : —

YEAS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Barr,

Baxter,

Bennett,

Biggar,

Blezard,

Burt,

Campbell,

Carpenter,

Caven,

Charlton,

Cleland,

Craig,

Currie,

Dana,

Dickenson,

Dryden,

Dynes,

Farwell,

Ferguson,

Field,

Flatt,

Garrow

German,

Gibson (Hamilton),

Gibson (Huron),

Harcourt,

Hardy,

Harty,

Haycock,

Hobbs,

Loughrin,

Macnish,

McKay (Oxford},

McKay ( Victoria),

McKee,

McLean,

McNaughton,

McNicol,

McPherson,

Middleton,

Moore,

Mutrie,

O'Keefe,

Pardo,

Paton,

Pattullo,

Richardson,

Robertson,

Robillard,

Ross,

Stratton,

Taylor,

Truax.— 54.

61 Vic.

9TH DECEMBER.

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Beatty (Leeds), Haggerty,
Beatty (Parry Sound), Hiscott,
Brower, Kerns,
Bush, Kiddy
Carnegie, Langford,
Crawford, Little,
Fallis, . McDonald,

Marter,
Matheson,
Meacham,
Miscampbell,
Preston,
Reid (Addington ,
Reid (Durham),

Ryerson,
St. John,
Shore,
Tucker,
Whitney,
Willoughby,

PAIRS,

Davis
Branson
Smith
Chappie

Magwood.
Gamey.
McCallum.
Gurd.

And the Amendment, as amended, having been then put, was carried on the same
division.

The Address, as amended, being then put, was carried, and it was

Resolved, That an humble Address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor of Ontario, as follows : —

To the Honourable Sir Oliver Mowat, G.C.M.G., Lieutenant-Governor of the Province of
Ontario.

We, Her Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Legislative Assembly of the
Province of Ontario, now assembled, beg leave to thank your Honour for the gracious
Speech which your Honour has addressed to us. We join in the regret expressed by
your Honour with reference to the increased duty imposed by the Government of the
United States on pine and other lumber imported into that country, and we have learned
with satisfaction that a measure dealing with the question will, during the present Session,
be laid before the House for consideration.

Ordered, That the said Address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor
by such members of the House as are members of His Honour's Honourable Council.

On motion of Mr. Harcourt, seconded by Mr. Harty,

Resolved, That this House will To-morrow, resolve itself into the Committee of
Supply.

Resolved, That this House will To Morrow, resolve itself into the Committee of Ways
and Means.

Mr Davis presented to the House, by command of His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor : —

Public Accounts of the Province of Ontario for the ten months ending 31st October,.
1897. (Sessional Papers No. 2.)

38 9TH AND 10TH DECEMBER. 1897

Also — Report of the Inspector of Insurance and Registrar of Friendly Societies for
the year 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 9 )

Also — Report upon the Ontario Institution for the Education of the Blind, Brantford>
for the year ending 30th September, 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 14-)

Also — Report upon the Ontario Institution for the Education of the Deaf and Dumb,
Belleville, for the year ending 30th Septembsr, 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 15.)

Also — Auditor's Report to Board of Trustees, Toronto University, on Capital and
Income Accounts for the year ending 30th June, 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 38 )

Also — Copy of an Order in Council respecting the payment to His Honour Judge
Mosgrove, Junior Judge of the County Court of Carleton, out of the surplus Surrogate
fees, for the year 1896, of the sum of $500. (Sessional Papers No. 39.)

The House then adjourned at 11.45 p.m.

Friday, 10th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of the Strathroy and Western Counties Railway Company ;
also, of Napier Council R. T. of T.

By Mr. Davis, the Petition of the Kettleby Division No. 232 S. 0. T.

By Mr. Dry den, the Petition of Seagrove Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of
Greenbank Epworth League ; also, the Petition of Oshawa Division S. O. T. ; also, two
Petitions of Whitby Council No. 57, R. T. of T. ; also, of Brooklin R. T. of T. ; also, of
Ashburn Council No. 413, R. T. of T. ; also, of Andrew Hall and others of Qsltawa ;
also, of Whitby Division No. 34, S. O. T.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of the Y. P. S. of 0. E. of Erskine Presbyterian Church,
Toronto ; also, the Petition of St. Paul's Presbyterian Church, Toronto.

By Mr. McKay (Oxford), the Petition of W. A. McCollum, Tilsonburg • also, the
Petition of F. Stockton, Otterville.

By Mr. Stratton, the Petition of Archibald Campbell and others of Toronto.

By Mr. German, the Petition of the Toronto and Scarboro' Electrie Railway, Light
and Power Company.

By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of the Prohibition Union, Beverly ; also, the Petition of
the Presbyterian Church, Strabane.

61 Vic. IOTH DECEMBER. 39

By Mr. Farwell, the Petition of the Town Council of Thessalon ; also, the Petition
of W. A. Adams of Sault Ste. Marie.

By Mr. Auld, the Petition of Wesley S. S , Amherstburq.

'By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of the R. T. of T. Council No. 115, Kincardine ;
•also, the Petition of George M. McKendrick of Kincardine.

By Mr, Chappie, the Petition of S. 0. T., Uxbridge ; also, the Petition of the Metho-
dist Church, Rama.

By Mr. Ryerson, the Petition of C. H. Gouen ; also, the Petition of W. S. Wood ;
also, the Petition of M. D, Scherch ; also, the Petition of M. Love & Co., all of Toronto.

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of Epworth League, Hart's Church.

By Mr. Q'Keefe, the Petition of Cameron Lodge No. 338, 1. O. G. T., Ottawa.

By Mr. Little, the Petition of Methodist S. S., Shiloh • also, of the Methodist Church,'
Shiloh.

By Mr. Willoughby, the Petition of Truth Council R. T. of T., Campbellford.

By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of S. 0. T,, Mount Carswell.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of the W. C. T, U., Avonmore.

By Mr. Carpenter, the Petition of the Village Council of Water ford.

By Mr. MacPherson, the Petition of the Presbyterian Church, Maxvllle ; also, the
Petition of Ostrom Bro's & Co. ; also, of John M. Leister, all of Alexandria ; also, the
Petition of the C. E. S. Presbyterian Church, Maxville ; also, the Petition of Rev. A.
Graham and others of Knox Church, Lancaster.

By Mr. Craig, the Petition of the 0. E. S., Egerton • also, the Petition of the Bap-
tist Church, Mount Forest ; also, the Petition of the C. E. of Conn ; also, the Petition of
the Epworth League, Szlem Church ; also, the Petition of the Wellington County Coun-
cil ; also, the Petition of Henry Gear ; also, the Petition of R. Wood all of Erin ; also,
the Petition of Robert Phillips ; also, the Petition of Robert Phillips Jr., all of Fergus ;
also, tht, Petition of H. S. Cowan of Mount Forest \ also, the Petition of T. P. Smith of
Mora.

By Mr. Beatty (Leeds), the Petition of the Township Council of Kitley ; also, the
Petition of Rev. J. Scanlon, and others, of Leeds.

By Mr. Caven, the Petition of the Methodist Church, Fish Lake.
By Mr. Taylor, the Petition of the Baptist Church, McGillivray.

By Mr. Gibson (Huron), the Petition of the Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of
the Presbyterian Church, all of Blyth ; also, the Petition of the Presbyterian Church,
Hullett.

By Mr. Dynes, the Petitions of the Methodist Church ; also, Temperance Committee,
Homing's Mills ; also, the Petition of the Presbyterian Church, Waldemar.

By Mr. Meacham, the Petition of the Methodist Church, Bath.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of the Presbyterian Church, Smiths Falls.

40 IOTH DECEMBER. 1897

By Mr. Grower, the Petition of the S. O. T. Corinth.

By Mr. St. John, the Petition of the King Street Methodist Ohurch, Toronto ; also,
the Petition of the Presbyterian Church, Mimico.

By Mr. Garrow, the Petition of Robert Holmes and others of Clinton.

By Mr. Shore, the Petition of the W. C. T. U.j also, of the Methodist Ohurch,
all of Ilderton.

By Mr. Dana, the Petition of A. James and others of Brockvilk.

By Mr. Loughrin, the Petitions of the Epworth League ; also, the W. C. T. U., all
of North Bay.

By Mr. McLean, the Petition of the Epworth League, Donniebrook.

By Mr. Gurd, the Petition of A. Harkness and others of Petrolea.
The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada ; also of the Town Council of
Midland, severally praying that an Act may pass to legalize and confirm an agreement
entered into between the Company and the Corporation.

Of the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada ; also, of the Town Council of
Sarnia ; also, of the St. Clair Tunnel Company, severally praying that an Act may
pass to legalize and confirm an agreement entered into between the Companies and the
Corporation.

Of the Sisters of St. Joseph of the Diocese of Toronto, praying that an Act may
pass to amend their Act of incorporation.

Of the County Council of Wellington, praying certain amendments to the Assess-
ment Act, respecting the sale of land for Taxes.

Of M. Durkee and others of Otterville ; also, of Henry Wilson and others of Oak-
ville, severally praying certain amendments to the Assessment Act, respecting the tax
upon improvements.

Of S. Neill and others of Guelph, praying that Municipalities may be permitted
to impose a progressive tax upon any firm carrying on more than one business.

Of the Town Council of Napanee ; also, of the Village Council of Embro, severally
praying certain amendments to the Municipal Act, respecting the licensing of Hawkers
and Pedlars.

Of the County Council of Wellington praying certain amendments to the Jurors.
Act, respecting the selection of Jurors.

Of Millbrook R. T. of T.; also, of Aberfoyle R. T. of T.; also, of Bay Council No.
108, R. T. of T.; also, of St. John's Church, Toronto Junction ; also of D. J. McClure
and others of Churchville ; also of William Naish and others of Streetsville ; also, of J.
G. Sanderson and others of Chinguacousy ; also, of Lakefield Presbyterian Church ;
also, of Westwood I. 0. G. T.; also, of Milton Council R. T. of T.; also, of Adelaide
Methodist Church : also, of Thornton S. 0. T. No. 121 ; also, of Doon Council No. 551,,

61 Vic. 10TH DECEMBER. 41

R. T. of T.; also, of Joseph Barnes and others of Silver Lake ; also, of Preston Council
No. 204, R. T. of T.; also of Samuel McAllister and others ; also, of F. Dawson and
others of Omemee ; also, of George H. Kenney and others of Duns ford ; also, of Township
Council of Ops ; also, of Toronto Journeymen's Union ; also, of Peter Hawkins and
others of Ops ; also, of J. W. Banner and others of Haliburton ; also, of E. W. Me-
Gaffey and others of Lindsay ; also, of Revd. George W. Downing and others of Sault
Ste. Marie ; also, of St. James Church Bible Class ; also, of Shakespeare Club ; also, of
Methodist Sunday School; also, of David H. Church and others; also, of Baptist
Sundiy School; also, of Baptist Church ; also, of St. James Church; also, of Methodist
Epworth League, all of Orillia, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day
Act, respecting the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

Of the Kingston First Baptist Church Young People's Union ; also, of St. Helen's
Y. P. B. Class ; also of Lindsay W. C. T; U.; also, of Dalrymple Epworth League ; also,
of Woodville Methodist Church ; also, of St. George Methodist Church ; also, of Agnes
Street Methodist Church, Toronto ; also, of Mountain Epworth League ; also, of Maid-
stone I. O. G. T.; also, of Fesserton Ivy Leaf, S. O. T.; also, of the Township Council of
Drury, Denison and Graham ; also, of Prohibition Association of East Algoma ; also*
of Day Mills Epworth League ; also, of Wharncliffe Epworth League ; also, of St. Helens
Forester's Court ; also, of Warsaw Epworth League ; also, of Adelaide Methodist
Church ; also, of Strathroy Methodist Church ; also, of Askin Street Methodist Church,
London ; also, of St. David Methodist Church ; also, of Bath Methodist Church ; also,
of Port Hope R. T. of T.; also, of Mount Pleasant Epworth League ; also, of Wesleyville
C. E. S.; also, of Sand Bay Division S. O. T. No. 241 ; also, ot Athens Methodist
Church ; also, of Athens Epworth League ; also, of Baptist Y. P. S. 0. E of Perth ; also,
of St. Thomas R. T. of T., No. 35 ; also, of Fullarton Epworth League ;
also, of Carlingford Epworth League; also, of Bobcaygeon Presbyterian
Church ; also, of Wesley Epworth League ; also, of the Baptist Church ; also,
of the Ministerial Association ; also, of Methodist Church ; also, of the W. C. T.
U. all of Belleville ; also, of the Tilsonburg Methodist Church ; also of West
Nissouri Baptist Church ; also, of Dorchester Methodist Church ; also, of St. Paul's Meth-
odist Church, Toronto ; also, of the Township Council of Stisted ; also, of Hantaville Meth-
odist Church ; also, of Port Grandly Methodist Church ; also, of the Village Council of
Creemore ; also, of Duntroon Epworth League ; also, of Utopia Epworth League ; also, of
Kuskview Division No. 321, S. O. T.; also, of Atherly R. T. ot T., No. 461 ; also, of
Palmer ston Epworth League; also, of Abingdon Presbyterian Church, Hamilton] also,
of Plattsville R. T. of T.; also of Mount Carmel Church South Mersea ; also, of Deseronto-
Epworth League; also, of Marlbank W. C. T. U.; also, of Deseronto
Church of the Redeemer ; also, of Deseronto Methodist Church ; also, of
Wolf Island St. Andrew's Church ; also, of Wilmur S. O. T. ; also, of the Town-
ship Council of Eastnor ; also, of Elmwood Evangelical Association ; also, of Aultsville
Methodist Church ; also, of Westwood I. O. G. T. ; also, of Wilberforce S. 0. T. ; also, of
the Township Council of Toronto ; also, of Warsaw Methodist Church ; also, of Bethany
Methodist Church ; also, of West Garafraxa Bethel Epworth League ; also, of Mount

42 IOTH DECEMBER. 1897

Forest Y. P. S. ; also, of Preston Council K. T. of T. No. 204 ; also, of Branchton Meth-
odist Church; also, of Doon R. T. of T. ; also, of Beeton Epworth League; also, of
Westwood Epworth League; also, of South Dimmer Epworth League; also, of Summer-
ville S. 0. T ; also, of Testor Lodge No. 199, I. O. G. T., severally praying certain
amendments to the Liquor License Law, respecting the power of a majority of electors to
further limit the hours of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of II. Fleming, of Windsor ; also, of Thomas McCarroll ; also, of J. G. M. Sloam of
Shaollw Lake ; also, of James Shurie of Trenton ; also, of R. J. Whaley of Westport ; also,
of A. J. Williams of Windsor ; also, of J. E. Davis of Goderich ; also, of C. (7. Campbell of
Wingham; also, of W. C. Goode of Goderich ; also, of George A. Hunter of Sault Ste.
Marie ; also, of A. H. Johnson of Collingwood ; also, of W. J. Corbett of Creemore ; also,
of Alexander Ray ; also, of Albert Green ; also, of D. M. Waters ; also, of Frank Dowling \
also, of F. G. Clarke, all of Belleville ; also, of W. Booth ; also, of J. A. Dickey, all of
Newton ; also, of F. J. Stewart of Stayner ; also, of W. H. Boullee ; also, of E. Bromley of
Bright ; also, of George Egar of Deseronto , also, of A. Reach of Millbrook ; also, of E. J.
Kibblewhite of Alton ; also, of W. J. Malley of Deseronto ; also, of G. S. Armstrong of
Lion's Head; also, of A. T. Brown of Acton ; also, of R. H. Hodgson of Brampton ; also,
of E. C. Mitchell of Kingston] also, of D. J. Matthew of Windsor; also, of W. H.
Taylor of Owen Sound ; also, of J. A. Stewart of Meaford ; also, of T. S. Grimshaw
of Stayner] also, of A. A. Rigley ] also, of J. E. 0. Anjour of Windsor, severally
praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law, respecting the sale, by Druggists,
of liquor and alcohol.

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders, presented
their First Report, which was read as follows, and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the following Petitions and find the Notices
as published sufficient : —

Of Gordon B. Pattee and others of Ottawa, praying that an Act may pass to incor-
porate the Ottawa Stock Exchange.

Of the incorporated Synod of the Diocese of Ottawa, praying that an Act may pass
confirming the Canons of the Synod.

Of David McLaren and others of Ottawa, praying that an Act may pass to incor-
porate the Canadian Consolidated Copper and Nickel Company.

Of the Kingston, Portsmouth and Cataraqui Electric Railway Company, praying
that an Act may pass to legalize and confirm a certain issue of Bonds and to remove
doubts as to the powers of the Company.

Of James Maitland Clark and others of Smith's Falls, praying that an Act may pass
to incorporate the Smith'? Falls, Rideau and Southern Electric Railway Company.

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be sus-
pended in this that the time for presenting Petitions for Private Bills be extended until
And inclusive of Friday, the 17th day of December, instant.

Mr. McKay (Oxford], from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders, presented
their Second Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

«,

Vic. 10TH DECEMBER. 43

The Committee have carefully examined the Petitition of the Synod of the Diocese
of Niagara, praying that an Act may pass to amend Acts respecting the Synod, and for
power to hold and acquire real estate, and find that notice of the proposed application to
this Legislature has appeared for four weeks in the •' Ontario Gazette," and five weeks in
the " Hamilton Weekly Times," a newspaper published in the City of Hamilton.

Also, the Petition of the Town Council of Collingwood^ praying that an Act may
pass authorizing the Corporation to submit a By-law to the ratepayers granting a bonus
to the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada, in trust for an elevator company, and
find that notice of the proposed application to this Legislature has appeared once in the
" Ontario Gazette," and once in the " Collingwood Enterprise," a newspaper published in
the Town of Collingwood.

Also, the Petition of the City Council of Ottawa, praying that an Act may pass
authorizing the borrowing of $70,000 for the construction and repairing of certain City
buildings, and find that notice of the proposed application to this Legislature has appeared
for four weeks in the " Ontario Gazette," and for five weeks in the " Ottawa Free Press,"
a newspaper published in the City of Ottawa.

Also, The Petition of the Township Council of Amabel^ praying that an Act may pass
authorizing the issue of certain debentures for the purpose of retiring the debentures
of the Township issued in aid of the Stratford and Huron Railway Company, and find
that notice of the proposed application to this Legislature has appeared for two weeks in
the " Ontario Gazette and the " Wiarton Canadian," a newspaper published at the Town
of Wiarion;

Also, the Petition of the Town Council of Cobourg, praying that an Act may pass
to enable the Corporation to acquire or construct Water Works and for other purposes,
and find that notice of the proposed application to this Legislature has appeared for five
weeks in the " Ontario Gazette" and in the " Cobourg Morning Post," a newspaper pub-
lished in the Town of Cobourg ;

Also, The Petition of the County Council of York, praying that an Act may pass
to ratify and confirm By-law 740 of the Corporation of the County of York, and find that
notice of the proposed application to this Legislature has appeared for four weeks in the
" Ontario Gazette," four weeks in the " Toronto News," a newspaper published in the
City of Toronto, and four weeks in the * Whitby Chronicle," a newspaper published in
the Town of Whitby ;

Also, The Petition of Barlow Cumberland and others of Toronto, praying that an
Act may pass to empower the sale of lands of the Shebandowan Mining Company, and to
incorporate the Frue Shebandowan Gold Mining Company, Limited, and find that notice
of tlie proposed application to this Legislature appeared for six weeks in the " Ontario
Gaz tte," and for three weeks in the " Port Arthur Herald," a newspaper published at
the Town of Port Arthur.

The Committee also find that in each of the foregoing Petitions the Notices and
Petitions agree ;

44 10TH DECEMBER. 1897

The Committee, considering that on account of the Legislature having been con-
vened at an earlier date than usual, many intending applicants for Private Bills have not
had sufficient time to complete the full term of notice as required by the Rules of this
Honourable House, would recommend, that as in each of the foregoing cases declarations
have been filed shewing that instructions have been given to the Publishers to continue
the insertion of the notices for a period of six weeks, being the time required by the
Rules of this Honourable House, that the notices be held sufficient, but that the Bills
founded on said Petitions do not pass their final stage until the full notice shall have
been given.

Ordered, That the time for presenting Petitions for Private Bills be extended until
and inclusive of Friday, the seventeenth day of December instant.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 25), intituled " An Act respecting the consolidated debt of the Town of
Colour g, and for other purposes." — Mr. Field.
Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 10), intituled "An Act to incorporate the Canadian Consolidated Copper
and Nickel Company." — Mr. Biggar.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 21), intituled "An Act respecting the Synod of the Diocese of Niagara.""
— Mr. DicTcenson.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 20), intituled '• An Act respecting the Railway Debenture Debt of the.
Township of Amabel" — Mr. McNaughton.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 13), intituled " An Act respecting the City of Ottawa.1' — Mr. O'Keefe.
Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 31), intituled " An Act to incorporate the Ottawa Stock Exchange. Mr..

O'Keefe.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 24), intituled " An Act respecting the Kingston, Portsmouth and Cataraqui
Railway Company." — Mr. Harty. t

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 19), intituled " An Act to confirm By-law No. 740 of the County of York.'"
— Mr. Davis.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 12), intituled " An Act to incorporate the Smith's Falls, Rideau and South-
ern Railway Company." — Mr. Matheson.

Referred to the Committee on Railways.

Bill (No. 2), intituled " An Act respecting the Shebandowan Mining Company, and
incorporating the Frue Shebandowan Gold Mining Company, Limited." — Mr. German.
Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

€1 Vic. 10TH DECEMBER. 45

Bill (No. 6), intituled " An Act respecting the incorporated Synod of the Diocese of
Ottawa" — Mr. Matheson.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 46), intituled " An Act to amend the General Road Companies Act." —
Mr. Flatt.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 47), intituled " An Act to prevent the spread of the San Jose Scale." —
Mr. Dryden.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

The Attorney-General delivered to Mr. Speaker a Message from His Honour the
Lieutenant-Governor, signed by himself ; and the said Message was read by Mr. Speaker,
and is as follows : —

0. MO WAT.

The Lieutenant-Governor transmits Estimates of certain sums required for the
service of the Province, for the year 1898, and to complete the services of the Province
ior the year 1897, and recommends them to the Legislative Assembly.

GOVERNMENT HOUSE,

Toronto, December 10th, 1897.

(Sessional Papers No. 8.)

Ordered, That the Message of His Honour, together with the Estimates accom-
panying the same, be referred to the Committee of Supply.

On motion of Mr. Matheson, seconded by Mr. Meacham,

Resolved, That an humble Address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor praying that he will cause to be laid before this House, a Return of copies
of all awards made by the Arbitrators on the accounts between the Dominion and the
Provinces of Ontario and Quebec from and inclusive of the award of 1870, and copies
of all judgments given on appeal from the decisions of the Arbitrators, together with
copies of all correspondence, reports and Orders in Council and other papers Dot already
brought down, touching the arbitration between the Provinces, with a statement of all
expenses thereof since the appointment of the present Arbitrators, already paid, and an
estimate of those remaining unpaid, if any, so far as expenses are concerned.

Mr. Haycock having called attention to the fact that an honourable member, whose
name was placed upon a motion as its' seconder, had not been in the House when the
motion was read from the Chair, Mr. Speaker stated that such use of the name of an
absent member is irregular and that it is necessary to substitute therefor the name of
some gentleman present in the Chamber when the question is submitted.

The House then adjourned at 4.35 p.m.

46 13TH DECEMBER. 1897"

Monday, 13th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —
By Mr. Hardy \ the Petition of Kevd. J. S. Ross and others of Brantford.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of Richard J. Hodge and others ; also, of D. Pothering-
ham and others ; also, the Petition of Olivet Congregation, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of Capetown Society, Epworth League ; also, the Petition
of Union Lodge No. 533, I. 0. G. T., Carlisle.

By Mr. Gibson (Huron), the Petition of the Huron Presbytery ; also, the Petition of
the Duf Presbyterian Church ; also, the Petition of Walton Methodist Church.

By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of Glamis R. D. R. T.

By Mr. Blezard, the Petition of the South Dummer Methodist Church.

By Mr. Langford, the Petition of Bethesda Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of
C. A. Wattson of Huntsville.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of the Aultsville W. C. T. TL; also, the Petition of
Avonmore W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition of Newington W. C. T. TL; also, the Petition
of Stormont W. 0. T. U.; also, the Petition of Cornwall Knox Church C. E. S.; also, the
Petition of the Avonmore Methodist Church.

By Mr. Charlton, the Petition of St. William's Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of Port Rowan Methodist Church.

By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of the Drayton Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of Palmerston Knox Church.

By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of the Portsmouth Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of the Wilmer Methodist Church.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of the County Council of Lanark ; also, the Petition
of the Perth Granite Division No. 12, S. O. T.

By Mr. McLean, the Petition of J. McDiarmid of Hensall ; also, the Petition of
John A. Manson and others of Hensall.

By Mr. Pattullo, the Petition of Plattsville R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of D. T.
Pepper ; also, the Petition of W. M. Veitch, all of Plattsville ; also, the Petition of Wood-
stock Dundas St. Methodist Church.

By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of Barton St. Methodist Church, Hamilton.

By Mr. Shore, the Petition of Putnam Church ; also, the Petition of Josephus Perkins
and others.

By Mr. Kerns, the Petition of Milton Royal Templar? ; also, the Petition of George-
town Council R. T. of T.

61 Vic. 13TH DECEMBER. 47

By Mr. Beatty (Parry Sound], the Petition of Revd. E. S. Roupert and others of
Parry Sound ', also, the Petition of W. J. White and others of Novar ; also, the Petition
of Charles Clarke and others of McMurrich ; also, the Petition of W. J. Reid and others
of Christie ; also, the Petition of Doe Lake Presbyterian Church.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of Euclid Council R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of
Metropolitan Council No. 211, R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of Union Pleasant Grove
S. S.; also, the Petition of St. Alban's Epworth League ; also, the Petition of Dovercourt
W. 0. T. U.; also, the Petition of Creighton Branch W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition of
St Alban's Methodist Church, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Brower, the Petition of Ernest A. Bargis of Sparta ; also, the Petition of
Corinth Division No. 316, R. T. of T.

Ey Mr. Miscampbell, the Petition of Guthrie Division S. O. T. No. 132, Oro ; also,
the Petition of Midland Methodist Church.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of Lewis F. Riggs of Toronto, praying that an Act may piss to authorize him to
practise Dentistry.

Of the City Council of Toronto, praying that an Act may pass to validate certain
debenture By-laws and for other purposes.

Of Victoria University, praying that an Act may pass to aoaend the Act relating
thereto.

Of Waterloo W. C. T. U.; also, of Berlin C. E. United Brethren Church ; also, of
Berlin R. T. of T. No. 332 ; also, of Berlin United Brethren Church ; also, of Ryerson
Doe Lake 0. E. S.; also, of Blair Council R. T. of T. of Crumlin ; also, of Brantford
R. T. of T ; also, of Inkerman Epworth League ; also, of Glencoe Methodist Church >
also, of Middlemiss Epworth League ; also, of North Ekfrid Union Council No. 169,
R. T. of T.; also, of Orient Division No. 312, S. 0. T., Toronto; also, of Parry Sound
Methodist Church; also, of Doe Lake Lodge No. 127 of Ryerson; also, of Midlothian
Lodge No. 115, R. T. of T., Parry Sound; also, of Parry Sound Methodist Church;
also, of Township Council of Perry ; also, of Nanticoke Epworth League ; also, of Bin-
brook Knox Church ; also, of Sault Ste. Marie Epworth League ; also, of Port Hope
W. 0. T. U.; also, of South Huron Methodist Church ; also, of Alma and Furness
Methodist Church ; also, of Amhersiburg Methodist Church ; also of Salem Methodist
Church ; also, of Merritton Presbyterian Church; also of Fort Stewart C. E. S.; also, of
Bond Head Methodist Church ; also, of West Gwillimbury Methodist Church ; also, of
Newton Robinson M ethodist Church ; also, of Roxborough Knox Church ; also, of Bell
Street Methodist Church, Ottawa ; also, of Ottawa Methodist Church ; also, of Bath Cir-
cuit Methodist Church ; also, of Cultus Methodist Church ; also, of Cheapside Methodist
Church ; also, of Thorncliffe Baptist Church ; also, of Palmerston Knox Church ; also, of
Township Council of Douro; also, of Hillside Mission, M uskoka; also, of Verschoyle W.C.T.U ;
also, of Wellington Methodist Church ; also, of Maitland Lodge No. 304, R. T. of T.; also,
of Mill Creek Council R. T. of T.; also, of Smith's Falls Methodist Church ; alto, of Gan-

48 13TH DECEMBEE. 1897

anoque Council R. T. of T.; Scarboro Junction Division S. 0. T.; also, of Parkhill Baptist
Church ; also of Sydenham Methodist Church ; also, of Corinth W. C. T. U.; also, of
Enterprise Methodist Church; also, of Palermo Division No. 143, S. O. T.; also, of
Burlington Fidelity Council No. 59, R. T. of T.; also, of Newcastle R. T. of T,; also, of
Euphemia Baptist Church ; also, of Zone Baptist Church ; also, of Perth Ministerial
Association ; also, of Dorchester Station Prf sbyterian Church ; also, of Preston W.C.T.U.;
also, of West Nottawasaga Presbyterian Church ; also, of Village Council of Embro ;
also, of Crown Hill Epworth League-, also, of Carp Branch W. C. T. CJ.; also, of Village
Council of Ottawa East ; also, of Malakoff Methodist Church ; also, of North Grower
Methodist Church ; also, of Victoria Methodist Church, severally praying certain amend-
ments to the Liquor License Law, respecting the power of a majority of electors to
further limit the hours for the sale of liquor where license in force.

Of R. C. Burt of Chatham ; also, of James Fox of Brussels ; also, of A. Werner of
Elmira ; also, of John S. Wideman of St. Jacobs ; also, of H . T. Zoellner ; also, of S.
Snyder ; also, of H, A. Zoellner, all of Waterloo ; also, of A. J. tioss ; also, of E. C. Hoff-
man, all of Berlin ; also, of F. W. Menel ; also, of D. Secord ; also, of F. G. W. Pearson ;
also, of S. Tapscott ; also, of M. H. Robertson ; also, of B. Batchelor, all of Brantford ;
also, of: James Wilson of Goderich ; also, of T. Chisholm of Wingham ; also, of W. T.
Strong ; also, of Alexander Stewart ; also, of H. Brodie ; also, of D. H. MacLaren, all of
Barrie, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law respecting the
sale, by Druggists, of liquor and alcohol.

Of Kettleby Division S. 0. T. No. 332 ; also, of Glenwood Council R. T. of T. ; also,
of Wesley Graham and others ; also, of C. Hounsome and others ; also, of John Robinson
and others, all of Bond Head ; also, of Cornwall Knox Church ; also, of Wales W. C. T. U.;
also, of Cornwall French Presbyterian Church ; also, of Chester Nicholson and others ;
also, of H. Calver and others ; also, of Henry Creighton and others ; also, of Arthur Huff-
man and others ; also, of V. Baring and others ; also, of R. W. Johnston and others ;
also, of /. G. Daiison and others all of Lennox-, also, of Revd. J. A. Wright
and others of Brant ; also, of East Toronto Division S. 0. T.; also, of
Ilderton English Settlement Church ; also, of the Palermo Division No. 143,
S. 0. T.; also, of R. T. of T. No. 72 of Kent ; also, of New Hope Council No. .66, R. T.
of T.; also, of Clyde Division No. 403, S. 0. T.; also, of Blyth Presbyterian Church;
also, of Sidney M. Whaley and others of Goderich ; also, of Pure Retreat S. 0. T. No.
30, Ben Miller, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting
the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

On motion of Mr. St. John, seconded by Mr. Meacham,

Ordered, That there be laid before this House a Return of copies of all correspondence,
papers and documents between the Government, or any Department thereof, and all
parties, who have made application for mining concessions of a similar nature to those
now enjoyed by the Engledue Syndicate under agreement with the Government ; or
any other concessions not now provided for, by or within the provisions of the present
Mining Act.

61 Vic. 13TH AND 14TH DECEMBER 49

On motion of Mr. St. John, accorded by Mr. Meacham,

Ordered^ That there be laid before this House a Return shewing the value of the
hogs which died, or were slaughtered at the Humber piggery during the outbreak of
cholera in July, 1896.

The House then adjourned at 4.45 p.m.

Tuesday, 14th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.

PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : — ?
By Mr. Hardy, the Petition of the London W. 0. T. IT. s-

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of the Komoka 0. E. S.

By Mr. Harty, the Petition of M. McGillivray and others ; also, the Petition of the/
Revd. Samuel Houston and others ; also, the Petition of John Wanless and others, all of
Kingston.

By Mr. Davis, the Petition of the Teston Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of the
Laskay Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of the Purpleville Methodist Church ; also,
the Petition of the Tresley Methodist Ohurch; also, the Petition of the Snowball
Methodist Church; also, the Petition of Aurora Council No. 444, R. T. of T.; also,
the Petition of ML Albert Council No. 259, R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of John
Dickenson and others of York.

By Mr. Whitney, the Petition of Morewood Presbyterian Ohurch.
By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of the West Flamboro' Methodist Church.

By Mr. Macnish, two Petitions of the County Council of Elgin ; also, the Petition of
the Revd. A. C. Hill and others of St. Thomas.

By Mr. Gibson (Huron), the Petition of Blyth Y. P. S. C. E.; also, the Petition of
Walton Methodist Church.

By Mr. Stratton, the Petition of Oity Lodge I. 0. G. T.; also, the Petition of the
Revd. A. T. Dykeman and others ; also, the Petition of John Brebb and others ; also, the
Petition of Revd. H. W. Foley and others ; also, the Petition of William Madill ; also,
the Petition of R. S. Fife and others, all of Peterborough ; also, the Petition of E. A.
Tanner-, also, the Petition of John A. Burgess^ all of Lake field.

By Mr. O'Reefe, the Petition of W. Borthwick and others ; also, the Petition of H.
F. McCarthy ; also, the Petition of R. H. Kirby, all of Ottawa.
4 J.

.50 HTH DECEMBER, 1897

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of Hart's Methodist Church ; also, the- Petition of
Hazzard's Corners Methodist Church.

By Mr. Little, the Petition of the Palgrave Methodist Church.

By Mr. Chappie, two Petitions of Siloam Epworth League ; also, the Petition of R .
F. Willis of Uxbridge.

By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of Albert Boyce of Sydenham ; also, the Petition of the
Portsmouth Methodist Church.

By Mr. Mutrie, the Petition of R. T. Haddock of Guelph.

By Mr, Taylor, the Petition of North Middlesex Methodist Churches ; also, the
Petition of Komoka Court Western Pride A. O. F.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of Cornwall French Protestant People.

By Mr. Shore, the Petition of Mossley Congregation ; also, the Petition of E. H.
-Spence and others ; also, the Petition of Frederick Bodkin and others, all of Dorchester. .

By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of Stirton Circuit Methodist Church.

By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of Orono W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition of

*la{-wmanville R. T. of T.

B By Mr. St. John, the Petition of St. Clarens Avenue E. L. of C. E.; also, the

\ etition of St. Clarens Avenue Methodist Church.
^

By Mr. Pattullo, the Petition of Embro W. 0. T. U.

By Mr. Loughrin, the Petition of Warren C. E. S.; also, the Petition of North Bay
Methodist Church.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of Playfair and Harper Methodist Church.
By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of Qooke's Presbyterian Church, Toronto ; also, the
Petition of Grand Lodge of Canada I. 0. G. T. in Ontario.

By Mr. Dana, the Petition of R. M. Arnold and others of Brockville.

By Mr. Ryerson, the Petition of Toronto East End Branch W, 0. T. U.; also, the
Petition of King St. Church Epworth League, Toronto.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of Methodist Y. P. U.; also, the Petition of North
Toronto Council R. T. of T., all of Toronto.

By Mr. Kerns, the Petition of Lowville Division S. O. T.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the Strathroy and Western Counties Railway Company, praying that an Act may
pass to extend the time for commencement and completion of the Road.

Of the Toronto and Scarboro' Electric Railway Light and Power Company, praying
that an Act may pass to amend Chap. 102, 56 Vic., respecting certain By-laws relating
to the Company.

Of Archibald Campbell and others of Toronto, praying that an Act may pass to
ncorporate the Toronto and York Radial Railway Company.

61 Vic. 14TH DECEMBER. 51

Of the County Council of Wellington, praying certain amendments to the High
School Act, respecting the cost of maintenance of County Pupils.

Of George M. MacKendrick of Kincardine ; also, of W. -A. Adams of Sault Ste.
Marie ; also, of T. P. Smith of Elora ; also, of H. Cowan of Mount Forest ; also, of Rob-
ert Phillips of Fergus ; also, of Henri/ Gear ; also of R. Wood, all of Erin ; also, of
W. A. McCollum of Tilsonburg ; also, of Frederick Stockton of Otterville ; also, of M.
Love ; also, of M. G. Scherck ; also, of C. H. Gouen ; also, %of M. S. Wood all of To-
ronto] also, of John McLeister^ also, of Ostrom Bros., all of Alexandria, severally pray-
ing certain amendments to the Liquor License Law respecting the sale, by Druggists, of
alcohol and liquor.

Of Keitleby Division, No. 232, S. O. T.; also, of Homing's Mills Epworth League ;
also, of Erskine Presbyterian Church, Toronto ; also, of Blyih Presbyterian Church ;
also, of McGillivray Baptist Church; also, of Donniebrook Methodist Church; also, of
Fish Lake Methodist Church ; also, of Township Council of Kitley ; also, of Homing's
Mills Methodist Church ; also, of Bath Methodist Church ; also, of North Bay W. 0. T. TL;
also, of North Bay Epworth League ; also, of Smiths Falls Presbyterian Church ; also,
of Corinth S. O. T ; also, of Wellington C. E. S.; also, of Mount Forest Baptist Church \
also, of Maxville 0. E. S.; also, of Maxville Presbyterian Church; also, of Barns Pres-
byterian Church ; also, of Strabane Presbyterian Church ; also, of Town Council of
Thessalon ; also, of Amherstburg Methodist Church; also, of Kincardine Council No.
115, R. T. of T.; also, of Harts' Church Epworth League; also of Beverley Prohibition
Union; also, of Cameron Council I. O. G. T.; also, of Shiloh Methodist Church; also,
of Shiloh Methodist Sunday School; also, of Campbellford Truth Council, R. T. ofT.;
also, of Mt. Caswell Division S. 0. T.; also, of Avonmore W. C. T. U.; also, of Village
Council of Waterford; also, of Salem Church Epworth League; also, of Wellington
County C. E. S.; also, of Waldemar Presbyterian Church ; also, of Brooklin R. T. of T.;
aho, of Whitby Council No. 57, R. T. ; also, of Qshawa S. 0. T.; also, of Green-
bank Epworth League ; also, of Seagrove Methodist Church ; also, of Napier Council
R. T. of T.; also, of Ilderton W. C. T. U.; also, of King Street Methodist Church,
Toronto ; also, of Uxbridge S. 0. T.; also, of Rama Methodist Church, severally pray-
ing certain amendments to the Liquor License Law respecting the power of a majority
of electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of Mimico Methodist Church ; also, of St. Paul's Methodist Church, Toronto ; also,
of Revd. A. C. Bryan and others of Westport ; also, of Whitby Division No. 34, S. O. T.;
also, of Oshawa S. 0. T.; also, of Ashburn Council, No. 413, R. T. of T.; also, of Whitby
Council E. T. of T.; also, of Blyth Methodist Church ; also, of Robert Holmes and others
of Clinton ; also, of Lancaster Y. P. S. C. E.; also, of A. James and others of Brock-
mile ; also, of Lambton C. E. Union, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's
Day Act, respecting the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Third Report which was read as follows, and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the following Petitions and find the notices
as published in each case sufficient : —

52 14TH DECEMBER. 1897

Of the Town Council of North Bay praying that an Act may pass to consolidate
the unprovided for debt and to empower the issue of debentures ;

Of the City Council and Water Works Commissioners of Windsor praying that an
Act may pass to amend the Acts relating to the Water Works of the City ;

Of the Town Council of Dundas, praying that an Act may pass to confirm certain
Agreements respecting the Hamilton and Dundas Street Railway Company ;

Of the Town Council of Walkerton praying that an Act may pass to confirm a
certain By-law granting aid to the Walkerton Chair Factory Company, Limited.

.Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Fourth Report which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the Petition of the Town Council of Rat
Portage praying that an Act may pass to conform By-law No. 205 for the construction
of Water Works and find that notice of the proposed application to this Legislature
appeared for three weeks in the " Ontario Gazette " and for the same time in the " Rat
Portage News," a newspaper published in the Town of Rat Portage ;

Also, the Petition of the City Council of St. Thomas and the St. Thomas Street
Railway Company, praying that an Act may pass to confirm By-law No. 1055 and for
other purposes and find that notice of the proposed application to this Legislature
appeared in the " Ontario Gazette " for five weekp, and in the " St. Thomas Evening
Journal " and the " St. Thomas Times,'" both of these last mentioned newspapers pub-
lished in the City of St. Thomas, for the space of five weeks ;

Also, the Petition of the Sisters of St. Joseph of the Diocese of Toronto praying that
an Act may pass amending their Act of incorporation, and the Act amending the same,
and find that notice of the proposed application to this Legislature has been inserted for
three weeks in the " Ontario Gazette " and for two weeks in the " Catholic Register," a
newspaper published in the City of Toronto j

Also, the Petition of the Sydenham Glass Company, Limited, praying that an Act
may pass to confirm By-law No. 49 of the said Corporation and find that notice of
the proposed application to this Legislature daly appeared for fivre weeks in the
" Ontario Gazette " and for four weeks each in the " Wallaceburg News " and the
" Wallaceburg Herald," two newspapers published in the Town of Wallaceburg, where
the head office of the said Company is situated ;

The Committee also find that in each case the Notices and Petitions agree, but that
for reasons similar to those set forth in the First Report of the Committee dated 10th
December instant, the fall term of Notice as required by the Rules of this Honourable
House has not expired. As, however, declarations have been filed in each case shewing
that the Publishers have received instructions to insert the said Notices for six weeks,
the Committee recommend that the Notices as published be held sufficient, but that the
Bills founded on the said Petitions do not pass their final stage until the full term of
Notice shall have been given.

61 Vic. 14TH DECEMBER. 53

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —
Bill (No. 9), intituled " An Act respecting the Hamilton and Dundas Street Rail-
way Company." — Mr. Flatt.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 23), intituled " An Act respecting By-law No. 205 of the Town of Rat
Portage" — Mr. Conmee.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 1), intituled " An Act to consolidate the floating debt of the Town of
North Bay." — Mr. Loughrin.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 14), intituled " An Act respecting the Syderiham Glass Company of Wallace-
burg (Limited) " — Mr. Pardo.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 29), intituled " An Act respecting Water Works in the City »f Windsor.
Mr. McKee.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 5), intituled " An Act respecting the Town of Walkerton"— Mr. Truax.
Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 16), intituled " An Act lespecting the Sisters of St. Joseph for the Diocese
of Toronto in Upper Canada" — Mr. McKee.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 48), intituled, " An Act to amend the Assessment Act." — Mr. Ryerson.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

Bill (No. 49), intituled " An Act for the better auditing of Municipal Accounts.'*
— Mr. Haycock.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

Bill (No. 50), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. Marter.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

The Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into the Committee of Supply,
having been read,

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair,

And a Debate having arisen,

Ordered, That trie Debate be adjourned until To-morrow.

The House then adjourned at 11 p.m.

54 15TH DECEMBER. 1897

Wednesday, 15th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of Mount Zion Church^ Kerwood ; also, the Petition of
Napier Council R. T. of T.

By Mr. Dry den, the Petition of Seagrove Division S. 0. T.; also, the Petition of Ash-
burn Council No. 413, P. T. of T.

By Mr. Harty, the Petition of Kingston Council No. 478 ; also, the Petition of 0.
W. King and others of Kingston.

By Mr. Whitney, the Petition of George Burnside and others of Morrisburg.
By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of the County Council of Lanark.

By Mr. Garrow, the Petition of Knox Church, Auburn ; also, th^e Petition of Willis
Chu^V Canton ; also, the Petition of John Wilson and others; also, the Petition of
Jnox Church ; also, the Petition of Y. P. S. O.E. all of Goderich.

By Mr. McKee, the Petition of Henry Lye and others of Essex.

By Mr. McKay ( Victoria), the Petition of D. W. Shier of Lindsay ; also, the Petition
of Oakuiood W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition of J. M. Duncan and others ; also, the Petition
of Lindsay Ministerial Association ; also, the Petition of George Wilder and others, all of
Lindsay.

By Mr. Willoughby, the Petition of F. W. Wood of Campbellford ; also, the Petition
of John H. Darling and others of Warkworth.

By Mr. Auld, the Petition of Amherstburg Epworth League ; also, the Petition of
the Cottam Methodist Church.

By Mr. Magwood, the Petition of John Dutton of Stratford ; also, the Petition of the
Township Council of Mornington \ also, the Petition 'of Atwood Epworth League ; also,
the Petition of Milverton R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of Stratford W. 0. T. U.; also,
the Petition of Listowel Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of the Mitchell R. T. of T. ;
also, the Petition of the Listowel R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of the Atwood Baptist
Church.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of A. F. Day and others ; also, the Petition of the Revd.
John Curry and others, all of Cornwall.

By Mr. Bush, the Petition of Cardinal E. L. of C. E.j also, the Petition of Spencer-
ville Division No. 351, S. 0. T.

By Mr. Moore, the Petition of Gait Council No. 65, R. T. of T.

By Mr. Gamey, the Petition of Thomas McKenney of Thornbury ; also, the Petition
of J. F. Johnson of Chatsworth ; also, the Petition of Walters Falls No. 449, R. T. of T.:
also, the Petition of the Walters Falls Methodist Church.

61 Vic. 15TH DECEMBER. 55

By Mr. Cleland, the Petition of East Grey District Division S. O. T.; also, the
Petition of Georgian Bay Division No. 202, S. O. T.; also, the Petition of W. W. Stephens
<fe Co. of Meaford.

By Mr. Campbell, the Petition of C. Bolender and others of Arnprior.

By Mr. Truax, the Petition of Culross Star Lodge No. 294, I. O. G. T.; also, the
Petition of the Mildmay Methodist Church.

By Mr. Smith, the Petition of Churchville Methodist Ohurch ; also, the Petition of
Brampton Zion Congregation ; also, the Petition of Huttonville Methodist Ohurch ; also,
the Petition of James Bond and others of Port Credit.

By Mr. RobiUard, the Petition of Billings Bridge Lodge No. 148, I. O. G. T.; also,
the Petition of Osgoode Baptist Church, Vernon ; also, the Petition of Leitrim Methodist
Church ; also, the Petition of Billings Bridge Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of
Taylorville Lodge No. 144, 1. 0. G. T.; also, the Petition of Bowersville Methodist Church -y
also, the Petition of Hawthorne Methodist Church.

By Mr. McLean, the Petition of Egmondville Presbyterian Church.
By Mr. Brower, the Petition of the County Council of Elgin.

By Mr. McNeill, the Petition of Sebringville Y. P. A. ; also, the Petition of Fullar-
ton Methodist Church.

By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of Collins Bay Presbyterian Church.

By Mr, Curi-ie, the Petition of Angus E. L. of 0. E,; also, the Petition of the
Nottawa Presbyterian Church.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of Richard J. Hodge and others of Toronto, praying certain amendments to the
Assessment Law respecting the taxation of improvements.

Of Charles Clarke and others of McMurrich ; also, of William J. Reid and others
of Christie, praying certain amendments to the Game Law respecting the shooting of
Deer by Settlers.

Of the County Council of Lanark, praying certain amendments to the Jury Law,
respecting the selection of Jurors.

Of Ernest A Burgis of Sparta ; also, of C. A, Wattson of Huntsville ; also, of J,
McDiarmid of Hensall ; also, of W. M. Veitch \ also, of J. T. Pepper all of Plattsviller
severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law, respecting the sale, by
Druggists, of liquor and alcohol.

Of Euclid Council No. 480, E, T. of T.; also, of Metropolitan Council No. 211 ,
R. T. of T.; also, of Union Pleasant Grove S. S., all of Toronto ; also, of Guthrie Div-
ision No. 132, S. O. T.; also, of Midland Methodist Church; also, of Copetown Society
Epworth League ; also, of Union Lodge No. 533, T. 0. G. T., Carlisle • also, of Walton
Methodist Church ; also, of McKillop Methodist Church ; also, of Huron Presbytery ;
also, of Glamis R. T. cf T.; also, of South Dummer Methodist Church ; also, of Bethesda
Methodist Church ; also, of Avonmore Methodist Church ; also, of St. William's Metho-

56 15TH DECEMBER. 1897

dist Church ; also, of Port Rowan Methodist Church ; also, of Drayton Methodist
Ohurch; also, of Palmerston Knox Church, C. E. S.; also, of Portsmouth Methodist
Ohurch; also, of Wilmur Methodist Church ; also, of Granite Division No. 12, S. 0. T.,
Perth ; also, of Woodstock Dundas St. Methodist Ohurch ; also, of Barton St. Methodist
Church, Hamilton ; also of Putman Church ; also, of Milton Royal Templars ; also, of
Doe Lake Presbyterian Church, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor
License Law, respecting the power of a majority of electors to further limit the hours
of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of D. Fotheringham and others; also, of Olivet Congregational Ohurch, all of Toronto ;
also, of Revd. J. J. Ross and others of Brantford ; also, of St. Alban's Epworth League ;
also, of Dovercourt W. 0. T. U.; also, of Creighton Branch, W. C. T. U.; also, of St. Alban's
Methodist Ohurch, all of Toronto ; also, of Aultsville W. C. T. TL; also, of Corinth Division
No. 316 ; also, of Avenmore W. C. T. U.; also, of Newington W. 0. T. TJ.; also, of Stormont
W. 0. T. U.; also, of Cornwall Knox Church; also, of John A. Manson and others; also,
of Plattsville R. T. of T.; aho, of Josephus Perkins and others ; also, of Georgetown
Council R. T. of T.; also, of W. J. White and others of Novar ; also, of Revd. E. S. Roupert
and others of Parry Sound, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day
Act, respecting the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time :—

Bill (No. 51), intituled " An Act respecting the Attachment of Moneys in the hands
of the Crown."— Mr. McDonald.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Friday next.

Bill (No. 52), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. Kidd.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Friday next.

On motion of Mr. Brower, seconded by Mr. Lang ford,

Ordered, that there be laid before this House, a Return of copies of all correspond-
ence between the Minister of Education, or any official in the Department and Mr.
Stewart of Glencoe, or any other person, in reference to the case of C. C. Grant of St.
Thomas who was charged with having obtained copies of the examination papers before
the Matriculation Examination in 1896.

Mr. Whitney moved, seconded by Mr, Marter,

That an humble Address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor
praying that he will cause to be laid before this House a Return of copies of all cor-
respondence between the Government of Canada and the Government of Ontario, and
between any members of said Governments, relating to the question of imposing a
restriction in any of the Timber Licenses heretofore issued by the Government of Ontario
compelling the manufacture in Canada, or in Ontario, of the saw logs cut under such
licenses.

And the Motion was, by leave of the House, withdrawn.

'€1 Vic. 15TH AND 16TH DECEMBER. 57

The Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned Debate on the Motion, " That
TVlr. Speaker do now leave the Chair," having been read,

The Debate was resumed,

And, after some time, it was

Ordered, That the Debate be further adjourned until To-morrow.

The House then adjourned at 10.25 p.m.

Thursday, 16th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of Kerwood Epworth League of C. E.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of F. B. Bunting ; also, the Petition of T. A. Riley and
others; also, the Petition of Central W. 0. T. IL; also, the Petition of Excelsior Division
:No. 28, S. 0. T., all of Toronto.

By Mr. Robertson, the Petition of J. C. Bruthaupt and others of Berlin.

By Mr. O'Keefe, the Petition of the Revd. W. J. fferridgs and others of Ottawa.

By Mr. German, the Petition of JV. Musson of Allanburg ; also, two Petitions of Mont-
rose Division S. 0. T.; also, the Petition of Ghippewa Presbyterian Church C. E. S.;
also, the Petition of Chippewa S. O. T.; also, the Petition of FonthiU Methodist Church ;
also, the Petition of Allanburg Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of Willard Union.

By Mr. Farwell, the Petition of Sault Ste. Marie Methodist Church ; also, the
Petition of the Sault Ste. Marie W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition of Hose of Plummer
Oouncil R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of Francis R. R. Berry of Providence Bay ; also,
the Petition of W. J. Tucker of Manitowaning j also, the Petition of J. R. McGregor of
Gore Bay.

By Mr. Par do, the Petition of the Township Oouncil of Tilbury East.

By Mr. Flattt the Petition of West Flamboro' E. L. of 0. E.

By Mr. Auld, the Petition of Cottam Methodist Church Epworth League.

By Mr. Hiscott, the Petition of Niagara Oouncil R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of Mer-
yitton Presbyterian Church ; also, the Petition of St. Catharines Y. P. S. Queen Street
Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of the Township Counoil of Cantor.

58 16TH DECEMBER. 1897.

By Mr. Little, the Petition of Thompsonville Epworth League ; also, the Petition of
the Palgrave Circuit Methodist S. S.

By Mr. McNicol, the Petition of Hanover Presbyterian Church.
By Mr. Preston, the Petition of the County Council of Lanark.

By Mr. Carnegie, the Petition of Norland Circuit E. L. of C. E.; also, the Petition
of Norland Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of Dunsford St. David Society E. L.

By Mr. McLaren, the Petition of Marlbank W. M. S.; also, the Petition of Marlbank
Methodist Church.

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of the Village Council of Stirling.

By Mr. Shore, the Petition of Mistress Salem Smith and others of Byron ; also, the
Petition of Joseph Mennell and others of White Oak ; also, the Petition of Westminster
Circuit E. L. of 0. E.; also, the Petition of White Oak Westminster Circuit E. L.; also,
the Petition of Littlewood E. L ; also, the Petition of White Oak Methodist Church ; also,
the Petition of Byron Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of Sharon Methodist Church ;
also, the Petition of London North Street Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of Little-
wood Methodist Church.

By Mr. Ferguson, the Petition of Dresden E. T. of T.; also, the Petition of Dresden
W. C. T. TL; also, the Petition of Ridgetown W. 0. T. U.; also, the Petition of Dresden
Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of the Town Council of Dresden.

By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of Stirton Methodist Church.

By Mr. Craig, the Petition of the Village Council of Fergus.

By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of Newcastle Methodist Church.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of St. Alban's Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of M. J. O'Keefe and others, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of A. Hamilton & Co.; also, the Petition of the
Trades and Labor Council ; also, the Petition of M. Y. Keating and others, all of St.
Catharines ; also, the Petition of H. Jones and others ; also, the Petition of James
Langdon and others ; also, the Petition of J. G. Tait and others ; also, the Petition of
John R. Bonds and others ; also, the Petition of Andrew Jeffrey and others ; also,
the Petition of J. Enoch Thompson and others, all of Toronto.

By Mr. St. John, the Petition ot Richmond Hill W. C. T. U,; also, the Petition of
Maple Methodist Church E.L. ; also, the Petition of Revd. Bernard Ryan and others of
Parkdale.

By Mr. Dana, the Petition of Alexander Mackie and others of Frankville.

By Mr. Haycock, two Petitions of Collin's Bay E. L. of C. E.; also, the Petition of
Portsmouth Methodist S. S.

By Mr. McLean, the Petition of Duff Church, McKillop.

By Mr. Stratton, the Petition of Peterboro' City Lodge L O. G. T.

By Mr. Pattullo, the Petition of Embro Congregational Church.

61 Vic. 16TH DECEMBER.

By Mr. McNaughton, the Petition of Purple Valley W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition
of Tara Baptist Church.

By Mr. Moore, the Petition of Ayr Circuit Methodist Church ; also, the Petition o*
J. Gulp and others of Waterloo.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of the Township Council of Drummond.

By Mr. Kerns, the Petition of the Revd. Thomas H. Rogers and others of Georgetown

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the Teston Methodist Ohurch ; also, of the Laskay Methodist Church ; also, of
the Purpieville Methodist Church ; also, of the Tresley Methodist Church ; also, of the
Snowball Methodist Church ; also, of West Flamboro Methodist Church ; also, of London
W. C. T. TJ.; also, of Komoka 0. E. S.; also, of Morewood Presbyterian Church; also,
of Blyth Presbyterian Church 0. E. S.; also, of Walton Methodist Ohurch ; also, of
Siloam Epworth League ; also, of Palgrave Methodist Ohurch ; also, of Hart's Corners
Methodist Ohurch ; also of Hazzard's Corners Methodist Church ; also, of Portsmouth
Methodist Mutual Aid Society ; also, of Court Western Pride A. 0. F., Komoka ; also, of
McGiHivray Methodist Church ; also, of Cornwall French Protestant People; also, of
Mossley Congregation ; also, of Stirton Circuit Methodist Ohurch ; also, of Orono
W. C. T. U.; also, of Bowmanville Excelsior Council No. 48, R. T. of T.; also, of Embro
W. C. T. U.; also, of Warren 0. E. S.; also, of North Bay Methodist Ohurch ; also, of
Play/air and Harper. Methodist Ohurch ; also, of Toronto Cooke's Presbyterian Church ;
also, of Grand Lodge of Canada (Ontario) I. O. G. T.; also, of King Street Church
Epworth League, Toronto; also, of North Toronto R. T. of T. No. 104; also, of Toronto
Y. P. U.; also, of Lowville Division S. 0. T., severally praying certain amendments to
the Liquor License Act, respecting the power of a majority of electors to further limit
the hours of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of M. McGillivray and others of Kingston ; also, of Aurora Coucil No. 44. R. T.
of T.; also, of Mount Albert Council No. 259, R. T. of T.; also, of John Dickinson and
others of York ; also, of Revd. Samuel Houston and others ; also, of John Wanless and
others, all of Kingston; also, of City Lodge I. 0. G. T.; also, of Revd. A. C. Hill and
others of St. Thomas ; also of Revd. A. T. Dykeman and others ; also, of C. H. Spence
and others ; also, of Frederick Bodkin and others all of Dorchester ; also, of St. Clarence
Avenue E. L. of C. E.; also, of St. Clarence Avenue Methodist Church all of Toronto ;
also, of R. M. Arnold and others of Addison ; also, of Siloam Epworth League ; also, of
East End Branch W. C. T. U. Toronto ; also, of Revd. H. W. Foley and others of
Peterborough, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting
the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

Of R. F. Willis of Uxbridge ; also, of P. F. Haddock ; also, of Albert Boyce of
Sydenham ; also, of R. H. Kirby ; also, of H. F. McCarthy, all of Ottawa ; also, of William
Madill; also, of R. S. Fife all of Peterborough; also, of E. A. Tanner; also, of John
A. Burgess, all of Lakefield, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License
Law, respecting the sale, by Druggists, of liquor and alcohol.

60 16TH DECEMBER. 1897.

Of John Brebb and others of Peterborough, praying certain amendments to the
Assessment Act, respecting the tax upon improvements.

Of W. Borthwick and others ; also, of James G. War nock and others of Ottawa ,
prayirg certain amendments to the law regulating the hours of labour in bake shops.

Of the County Council of Elgin, praying certain amendments to the law respecting
the nuisance of tramps.

Of the County Council of Elgin, praying certain amendments to the law respecting
the expense of Administration of Justice.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from the Standing Committee on Private Bills presented
their First Report which was read as follows : —

The Committee have carefully considered,

Bill (No. 13), "An Act respecting the City of Ottawa," and

Bill (No. 6), " An Act respecting the Incorporated Synod of the Diocese of Ottawa,"
and report the same without amendment.

The Committee have also considered,

Bill (No. 10), " An Act to incorporate The Canadian Consolidated Copper and
Nickel Company."

Bill (No. 2), " An Act lespecting the Shebandowan Mining Company, and incor-
porating the Frue Shebandowan Gold Mining Company Limited," and

Bill (No. 25), " An Act respecting the consolidated debt of the Town of Cobourg
-*nd for other purposes," and report the same respectively with amendments.

The Committee have also amended the preambles to the said Bills Nos. 10, 2, and
•J~) respectively so as to make the same conform with the facts as they appear to the
< ,' jmmittee.

The Committee would recommend that the fees, less the actual cost of printing, be
r mitted on the said Bill (No. 6) on the ground that the said Bill relates to a religious
institution.

The Committee would also recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House
be further suspended in this that the time for receiving petitions for Private Bills be
further extended until and inclusive of Thursday, the 23rd day of December, instant.
All of which is respectfully submitted.

Ordered, That the fees, less the aotual cost of printing, be remitted on Bill (No. 6),
Diocese of Ottawa.

Ordered, That the time for receiving Petitions for Private Bills be further ex-
i ended until and inclusive of Thursday the twenty -third day of December instant.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 53), intituled "An Act respecting Mining Claims." — Mr. Gibson (Hamilton.}

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

61 Vic, 16TH AND 17TH DECEMBER. 61

Bill (No. 54), intituled " An Act to establish Forest Reserves." — Mr. Gibson (Ham-
ilton )

Ordered^ That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 55), intituled " An Act respecting Departmental Stores." — Mr. Middleton.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

The Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned Debate on the Motion, " That
Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair," having been read,

The Debate was resumed,

And, after some time, it was

Ordered, That the Debate be further adjourned until To marrow.

Mr. Davis, presented to the House by command of His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor : —

Report of the Minister of Education for the year 1897, with the statistics for
1896. (Sessional Papers No. 1).

Also — Report of the Principal, and Statement of Bursar of Upper Canada College,
shewing receipts and expenditures for the year ending 30th June 1896. (Sessional
Papers No. 40).

Also — Return to an Order of the House of the thirteenth day of December instant
for a Return shewing the value of the hogs which died, or were slaughtered at the
Number piggery daring the outbreak of cholera in July, 1896. (Sessional Papers
No. 41.)

The House then adjourned at 11.15 p. m.

Friday, 17th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table :—

By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of East and West Flamboro* S. S. Association ; also, the
Peti ion of John Wakefield and others of Dundas.

By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of the Newcastle Methodist Church.
By Mr. Gibson (Huron), the Petition of Molesworth Methodist Church.
By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of St. Albaris Methodist Church, Toronto.
By Mr. McNicol, the Petition of the Hampden Presbyterian Church.

62 I?TH DECEMBEK. 1897

By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of the Hamilton Typographical Union No. 129.
By Mr. Shore, the Petition of the Byron Methodist Church.

By Mr. Currie, the Petition of MadilVs E. L. of C. E.; also, the Petition of Tossorontio
Calvin Presbyterian Church.

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of ffazzard's Corners Epworth League.

By Mr. Lang ford, the Petition of the Township Council of Oakley.

By Mr. Truax, the Petition of Lucknow Presbyterian Church ; also, the Petition of
Kinlough Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of Mildmay C. E. S.

By Mr. Baxter, the Petition of Zion E. A. 0. of South Cayuya

By Mr. McLean, the Petition of Wintfirop Caven Church, McKillop.

By Mr. Bush, the Petition of Ventnor E, L. No. 27.; also, the Petition of North
Augusta Methodist Church.

By Mr. Conmee, the Petition of Fort William W. 0. T. U.; also, the Petition of W.
J. Clarke of Port Arthur ; also, the Petition oiJohn Werner of Rat Portage.
By Mr. Beatty (Leeds), the Petition of R. King of Newboro\

By Mr. Moore, the Petition of Ayr Methodist Church.

By Mr. Dynes, the Petition of Mulmur Black Bank Presbyterian Church.

By Mr. Blezard, the Petition of the County Council of Peterborough.

By Mr. Meacham, the Petition of Violet E. L. of 0. E. of Lennox ; also, the Petition
of Wilton M. Y. P. S.

By Mr. Loughrin, the Petition of Sturgeon Falls U. S. S.; also, the Petition of
Warren Methodist Church.

By Mr. Carnegie, the Petition of R. S. Frost of Kinmount.
The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the County Council of Lanark praying certain amendments to the Hifijh School
law respecting the maintenance of County Pupils.

Of the County Council of Elgin, praying certain amendments to the Jury Law,
respecting the selection of Jurors.

Of J. W. Wood of Campbellford ; also, of John Dutlon of Stratford ; also, of J. F.
Johnson of Chatsworth ; also, of Thomas McKenny of Thornbury ; also, of W. W.
Stephens & Co. of Meaford ; also, of D. W. Shier of Lindsay, severally praying certain
amendment to the Liquor License Law respecting the sale, by Druggists, of alcohol
and liquor.

Of Ashburn Council No. 413, R. T. of T.; also, of Seagrave Division No. 83,
S. 0. T.; also, of Amherstburg Epworth League ; also, of Cottam Circuit Methodist
Church; also, of the Township Council of Mornington] also, of Attwood Methodist
Church ; also, of Milverton R. T. of T ; also, of Stratford W. C. T. U.; also, of Listowel
Baptist Church ; also, of Mitchell R. T. of T. ; also, of Listowel Council R. T. of T. ;
also, of Attwood Baptist Church ; also, of Cardinal E. L. of 0. E.; also, of Spencer ville

61 Vic. 17TH DECEMBER. 63

Division No. 351, S. O. T.; also, of Walters Falls Methodist Church; also, of Walters
Falls Council No. 449, R T. of T.; also, of Mildmay Methodist Church ; also, of Church-
mile Methodist Church; also, of Brampton Zion Congregation; also, of Huttonville
Church, Brampton; also, of Billings Bridge Lodge I. 0. G. T., No. 148 ; also, of Osgoode
Baptist Church ; also, of Leitrim Methodist Church ; also, of Billings Bridge Methodist
Church; also, of Taylorville Lodge No. 144, I. O. G. T.; also, of Bowerville Methodist
Church ; also, of Hawthorne Methodist Church ; also, of Fullarton Methodist Church ;
also, of Sebringville Y. P. A.; also, of N Ottawa Presbyterian Church ; also, of Angus
E. L. qf C. E ; also, of Oakwood W. 0. T. U.; also, of Lindsay Ministerial Association ;
also, of Mt. Zion Church, Kerwood, severally praying certain amendments to the
Liquor License Law respecting the power of a majority of the electors to further limit
the hours of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of John U. Darling and others of Warkworth ; also, of Napier Council No. 448
R. T. of T.; also, of Kingston Council No. 478, R. T. of T.; also, of C. W. King and
others of Kingston ; also, of George Burnside and others of Morrisburg ; also, of the
Revd. John Curry and others ; also, of A. F. Day and others, all of Cornwall ; also, of
Gait Council No. 65, R. T. of T.; also, of East Grey District Division S. O. T.; also, of
Georgian Bay Division No. 202, S. O. T.; also, of C. Bolender and others of Arnprior ;
also, of Culross Star Lodge No. 294, I. O. G. T.; also, of James Bond and others of Port
Credit • also, of Billings Bridge Lodge No. 148, I. 0. G. T.j also, of Collins Bay Presby-
terian Church ; also, of Henry Lye and others of Essex ; also, of George Wilder and others ;
also, of J. McD. Duncan and others, all of Lindsay ; also, of Auburn Knox Church ; also,
of Goderich Knox Church Y. P. S. C. E.; also, of Knox Church of Goderich j also, of
Clinton Willis Church ; also, of Egmondville Presbyterian Church ; also, of John Wilson
and others, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the
transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

Mr. McKay (Oxford) from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Fifth Report which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the following Petitions and find the notices
as published sufficient : —

Of the Township Council of Grey praying that an Act may pass to confirm and
amend By-Law No. 53 of the said Township ;

Of the Village Council of Huntsville praying that an Act may pass to validate
By-Law No. 147 relating to Water Works extension ;

Of the Town Council of Midland praying that an Act may pass to confirm an
Agreement between the Corporation and The Grand Trunk Railway Company of*
Canada ;

Of the Town Council of Sarnia praying that an Act may pass to confirm an Agree-
ment between the Corporation, The Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada and the
<St. Glair Tunnel Company ;

64 I?TH DECEMBER 189T

Of the City Council of Toronto praying that an Act may pass to validate certain
debentures and for other purposes.

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be further
suspended in this that the time for introducing Private Bills be extended until and in-
clusive of Thursday the 23rd day of December instant.

The Committee also recommend that the fees, less the actual cost of printing, b&
remitted on Bill (No. 34), respecting the Hamilton Steamboat Company, the Bill having
been withdrawn by the Promoters thereof, and no Petition having been presented w'th
reference to the same.

Mr. McKay (Oxford) from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Sixth Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the Petition of the Town Council of
Trenton praying that an Act may pass to authorize the sale for Taxes of certain lands
in the Town, and to validate certain Tax Sales and for other purposes and find that notice
of the proposed application to this Legislature has appeared for three weeks in the
" Ontario Gazette," and for four weeks in the " Trenton Advocate," a newspaper pub-
lished in the Town of Trenton ;

Also, the Petition of the City Council of London praying that an Act may pass to
confirm the annexation of the Village of London West to the City and to confirm By-Law
No. 1009 and for other purposes, and find that two notices of the proposed application
to the Legislature in this matter have been published, the first notice relating to the
annexation of the Village of London West to the City and the issue of debentures to
defray the existing debt of the said Village, and for other purposes, has appeared for five
weeks in both the " Ontario Gazette " and the " London News," a newspaper published
in the City of London ; the second notice, relating to the confirmation of By-Law No.
1009, and other matters, has appeared for four weeks both in the " Ontario Gazette "
and in the said " London News ;"

Also, the Petition of the Sandwich, Windsor and Amherstburg Railway Company
praying that an Act may pass to extend the time for the construction of the road and
for other purposes, and find that notice of the proposed application to this Legislature
has appeared for four weeks in both the " Ontario Gazette " and the "Amherstburg E;ho,"
a newspaper published in the Town of Amherstburg, and for three weeks in the " Windsor
Record," a newspaper published in the Town of Windsor ;

Also, the Petition of the Town Council of Ingersoll praying that an Act may pass-
to validate By-Law No. 479, granting an extension of time on certain mortgages held
% by the Town on certain manufactories, and find that notice of the proposed application to-
this Legislature has appeared for two weeks in the " Ontario Gazette " and for the same
period in the semi- weekly edition of the "Ingersoll Sun"; for three weeks in the daily
edition of the " Ingersoll Chronicle," and for the same period in the weekly edition of
the said " Ingersoll Chronicle," said three last mentioned newspapers being published at
the Town of Ingersoll ;

61 Vic. 17TH DECEMBER. 65

Also, the Petition of the Town Council of Berlin praying that an Act may pass to
validate By-Law No. 586 granting a bonus to D. Hibner & Co., and find that notice of the
proposed application to this Legislature has been published for three weeks in the
" Ontario Gazette " and for two weeks in the " Berlin News-Record," a newspaper pub-
lished at the Town of Berlin ;

Also, the Petition of Harry Garland Stubbs of Toronto praying ^that an Act may
pass declaring that 57 Vic. Cap. 107 was not intended to deprive him, and those entitled
under him, of their vested rights to possession and control of certain lands in the City of
Toronto, and find that notice of the proposed application to this Legislature has been
published for two weeks in the " Ontario Gazette " and for three weeks in the " Toronto
World," a newspaper published in the City of Toronto.

The Committee also find that in each of the foregoing matters the Notices and
Petitions agree but that for reasons similar to those set forth in the First Report of the
Committee, dated 10th December instant, the full term of Notice as required by the
Rules of this Honourable House has not expired. As, however, declarations have been
filed in each case shewing that the Publishers have received instructions to insert the
said Notices for six weeks, the Committee recommend that the Notices as published
be held sufficient, but that the Bills founded on the said Petitions do not pats their final
stage until the full term of notice shall have been given.

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders, presented
their Seventh Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the Petition of the Victoria University
praying that an Act may pass to amend the Acts relating to the University, and find
that notice of the proposed application to this Legislature has appeared in the " Ontario
Gazette" for five weeks and will be complete in the next issue of that paper on the 18th
instant, but that through inadvertence the said notice has not appeared until very
recently in any local paper ; said notice is now, however, being published in the Toronto
" Daily Globe."

The Committee are credibly informed that all parties affected by or interested in the
Bill are in favor of it, and as, in the opinion of the Committee, the object aimed at
partakes more of a public than private nature, they consider that sufficient notice
thereof has been given by the publication as aforesaid, and would therefore recommend
the suspension of the Rule in this case and that the notices be held sufficient.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from the Standing Committee on Private Bills, presented
their Second Report, which was read as follows and adopted :—

The Committee have carefully considered

Bill (No. 20), '• An Act respecting the Railway Debenture Debt of the Township of
Amabel" and report the same with amendments.

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be sus-
pended in this that the time for introducing Private Bills to this Honourable House
be extended until, and inclusive of, Thursday, the 23rd day of December, instant.
5 J.

66 17TH DECEMBER. 1897

Ordered, That the fees, less the actual cost of printing, be lemitted on Bill (No. 34),
Hamilton Steamboat Company.

Ordered, That the time for introducing Private Bills be extended until and inclusive
of Thursday, the twenty-third day of December, instant.

Mr. StrattDn, from the Standing Committee on Printing, presented their First Report,
which aras read as follows : —

The Committee recommend that the following documents be printed : —

Public Accounts of the Province of Ontario for ten months ended 3 1st October,
1897. (Sessional Papers No. 2.)

Estimates of the Province of Ontario for the year ending 31st December, 1898.
(Sessional Papers No. 3.}

Report of the Inspector of Insurance and Friendly Societies. (Sessional Papers No. 9.)
Report of Inspector on Education of the Blind. (Sessional Papers No. 14-)
Report of Inspector on Education of Deaf and Dumb. (Sessional Papers No. 15.)
Auditor's Report of the University of Toronto. (Sessional Papers No. 38.)
The Committee recommend that the following documents be not printed.

Order-in-Council that money be paid to His Honour Judge Mosgrove out of surplus
Surrogate Fees. (Sessional Papers No. 39.)

The Committee recommend that One Hundred copies of the Ninth volume, with
index, of Kingsford's History of Canada be purchased for the use of the members of the
Legislative Assembly.

Also, That the several Reports of the Toronto University be hereafter printed in
one volume, instead of separately, as at present, and that the President of the University
be requested to supply the material for such Reports to the proper officer, in order that
it may be compiled and printed under one cover.

Resolved, That this House doth concur in the First Report of the Committee on
Printing.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —
Bill (No. 26), intituled " An Act respecting the City of St. Thomas, and the St.
Thomas Street Railway Company." — Mr. Macnish.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 32), intituled " An Act to confirm By-law No. 479 of the Town of Inger-
*oll."—Ur. McKay (Oxford.)

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 11), intituled " An Act respecting certain By-laws concerning Drainage in
the townships of Grey, Elma and McKillop" — Mr. Gibson (Huron.)

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

61 Vic. 17TH DECEMBER.

Bill (No. 35), intituled " An Act to confirm By-law No. 586 of the Town of Berlin"
Mr. Robertson.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 17), intituled " An Act respecting the Estate of the late Richard Stubbs"
— Mr. Garrou>.

Referred to the Commissioners of Estate Bills.

Bill (No, 4), intituled " An Act respecting the City of Toronto" — Mr. Crawford.
Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 18), intituled " An Act respecting the Village of Huntsville." — Mr. Mid-
dleton.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 30), intituled " An Act respecting the Sandwich, Windsor and Amherstburg
Railway/'— Mr. McKee.

Referred to the Committee on Railways.

Bill (No. 7), intituled " An Act to confirm a certain agreement between the Grand
Trank Railway Company of Canada^ the St. Glair Tunnel Company and the Town of
Sarnia" — Mr. Biggar.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 8), intituled " An Act respecting the Town of Midland" — Mr. Biggar.
Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 33), intituled " An Act respecting the Town of Trenton.'1 — Mr. Biggar.
Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 3), intituled " An Act respecting the City of London." — Mr. Hobbs.
Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 39), intituled " An Act to confirm and legalize a By-law of the Town or
Collingwood." — Mr. Paton.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 38), intituled " An Act to amend the Acts relating the Victoria Univer
sity." — Mr. Davis.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 56), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. Kidd.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 57), intituled " An Act to prevent Gambling and Games of Chance at
Agricultural Exhibitions." — Mr. Dryden.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

68 * 17TH DECEMBER. 1897

Bill (No. 58), intituled " An Act respecting Water Powers." — Mr. Gibson (Hamilton.)
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.
On motion of Mr. Willougliby^ seconded by Mr. Kerns.

Resolved, That an humble Address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-
Go vernor praying that he will cause to be laid before this House a copy of the Peti-
tion presented to the Lieutenant-Governor in Oouncil asking for an Audit of the Books,
Vouchers, etc., of the Township of Manvers. A copy of the Commissioners' original
report, together with his supplementary report. Also, copies of all correspondence in
connection with the matter.

The Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned Debate on the Motion, u That
Mr. Speaker do now leave the Ohair," having been read,

The Debate was resumed,

And the House having to continued to sit until Twelve of the Clock, midnight,

SATURDAY, 18iH DECEMBER, 1897.
The Debate continued,
And after some time,

The Motion, liaving been again put, was carried, and the House accordingly resolved
itself into the Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the follow-
ing sum : —

1. To defray the expenses of Lieutenant-Governor's Office, Toronto $3,180 00

Mr. Speaker resumed the Ohair ; and Mr. Gharlton reported, That the Committee
had come to a Resolution ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for leave
to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received on Tuesday next.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again on Tuesday next.

The House then adjourned at 12.20 a.m.

61 Vic. 20TH DECEMBER. 69

Monday, 20th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of Glencoe Council No. 417, R. T. of T.

By Mr. Harty, the Petition of the Corporation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Loretto.

By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of the City Council of Hamilton ; also, the Petition
of the Hamilton Radial Electric Railway Company ; also, the Petition of the Cataract
Power Company of Hamilton.

By Mr. Palon, the Petition of the County Council of Simcoe.
By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of the Water down Methodist Church.

By Mr. Little, the Petition of Allandale Y. P. S. of C. E.; also, the Petition of the
Palgrave Tecumseth Methodist Church.

By Mr. Carpenter, the Petition of the Township Council of Middleton.
By Mr. Shore, the Petition of E. S. Hunt and others of London.
By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of the Township Council of Roxborough.
By Mr. Fallis, the Petition of Millbrook R. T. of T.

By Mr. Taylor, the Petition of Bethesda Methodist Church, Adelaide ; also, the
Petition of Komoka Court I. 0. G. T., No. 3076.

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of Queensboro' Epworth League.
By Mr. McNaughton, the Petition of J. McEwen and others.

By Mr. Matheson, the Petition of Playfair and Fallbrook Y. P. S. 0. E.; also, the
Petition of Bathurst, Bethel Methodist Church.

By Mr. Carnegie, the Petition of Kinmount Y. P. S. C. E.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of Clinton St. E. L. of 0. E., Toronto.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of J. C. Breithaupt and others of Berlin, praying that the Bill before the House
relating to the Town of Berlin may become law.

Of the Revd. W. T. Herridge and others of Ottawa, praying that an Act may pass
to incorporate the Committee of the Ottawa Presbyterian College as the Board of Trustees
of and under the name of " The Presbyterian Ladies College, Ottawa" with power to
acquire and hold property for the purpose of the College.

Of T. A. Riley and others ; also, of U. J. O'Keefe and others, all of Toronto, severally
praying certain amendments to the Assessment Act, respecting the tax upon improve-
ments.

Of the County Council of Lanark, praying certain amendments to the High Schools
Act, respecting the maintenance of County Pupils.

70 20TH DECEMBER. 1897

Of the Town Council of Dresden, praying certain amendments to the Municipal Act,
respecting the licensing of Hawkers.

Of J. Enoch Thompson and others ; also, of John R. Bonds and others ; also, of
Andrew Jeffrey and others ; also, of J. G. Tate and others ; also, of James Langdon and
others ; also, of H. Jones and others ; also, of A. Hamilton & Co. and others, all of To-
ronto ; also, of the Trades and Labour Council ; also, of M. Y. Keating and others, all of St.
Catharines^ severally praying for permissive legislation allowing Municipalities to impose
a progressive tax on any firm or business house carrying on more than one business.

Of W. J. Tucker of Manitowaning ; also, of /. R. McGregor of Gore Bay ; also, of
N. Musson of Allariburg ; also, of F. B. Bunting of Toronto ; also, of Francis R. R. Berry
of Providence Bay, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law
respecting the sale, by Druggists, of liquor and alcohol.

Of Kerwood Epworth League ; also, of Excelsior Division No. 28, S. 0. T. of Toronto ;
also, of Chippewa Presbyterian Church ; also, of Montrose Division S. O. T.; also, of
Ghippewa S. 0. T.; also, of Fonthill Methodist Church ; also, of Allanburg Methodist
Church ; also, of Willard Union ; also, of Sault Ste. Marie W. C. T. U.; also, of Rose of
Plummer Council R. T. of T.; also, of the Township Council of Tilbury East ; also of
West Flamboro' E. L. of C. E.; also, of Cottam E. L. Methodist Church ; also, of Niagara
Council R. T. of T.; also, of Merritton Presbyterian Church ; also, of St. Catharines Y,
P. S. Queen Street Baptist Church ; also, of the Township Council of Caistor ; also, of
Thompsonville Epworth League ; also, of Palgrave Methodist S. S.; also, of Hanover
Presbyterian Church ; also, of Norland Circuit E. L. of C. E.; also, of Norland Metho-
dist Church ; also, of St. David's Society E. L. of Dunsford Mission ; also,
of Marlbank W. 0. T. U.; also, of Marlbank Methodist Church; also,
of the Village Council of Stirling-, also, of North Street Methodist
Church E. L. ot C. E.; also, of White Oak E. L.; also, of Littlewood E. L. of West-
minster; also, of White Oak Methodist Church ; also, of Byron Methodist Church,
London District ; also, of Sharon Methodist Church ; also, of London District Methodist
Church ; also, of Littlewood Methodist Church ; also, of Dresden R. T. of T.; also, of
Dresden W. U. T. U.; also, of Ridgetown W. C. T. U.; also, of North Dresden Baptist
Church ; also, of Newcastle Methodist Church ; also, of the Village Council of Fergus ;
also, of Stirton Methodist Church ; also, of St. Albaris Methodist Church • also, of Rich-
mond Hill W. 0. T. U.; also, of Maple Methodist Church ; also, of Collin's Bay E. L. of
C. E.; also, of Portsmouth S. S.; also, of McKillop Duff Church; also, of Peterborough
City Lodge 1. 0. G. T.; also, of Embro Congregational Church C. E. S.; also, of Purple
Valley W. C. T. U.; also, of Tara Baptist Church ; also, of Ayr Circuit Methodist Church ;
also, of the Township Council of Drummond, severally praying certain amendments to
the Liquor License Law, respecting the power of a majority of electors to further limit
the hours of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of Toronto Central W. C. T. U.; also, of Montrose Division S. O. T; also, of Sault
Ste. Marie Methodist Church ; also, of Joseph Mennell and others of White Oak ; also,
of Mistress Salem Smith and others of Byron ; also, of the Revd. Bernard Bryan and
others of Parkdale ; also, of Alexander Mackie and others of Franksville ; also, of

61 Vic. 20TH DECEMBER. 71

Collins Bay E. L. of 0. E.; also, of Thomas H. Rogers and others of Georgetown ; also,
of J. Gulp and others of Waterloo, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's
Day Act, respecting the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 59), intituled " An Act to amend the Assessment Act." — Mr. MacnM.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second .time on Wednesday next.

Bill (No. 60), intituled " An Act respecting the manufacture of Pine Cut on the
Crown Domain." — Mr. Gibson (Hamilton.)

Ordered, that the Bill be read the second time on Wednesday next.

The following Bill was read the second time : —

Bill (No. 6), Respecting the Incorporated Synod of the Diocese of Ottawa.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

The Attorney-General delivered to Mr. Speaker a Message from the Lieutenant-
vernor, signed by himself ; and the said Message was read by Mr. Speaker, and is as
follows : —

0. MOWAT.

The Lieutenant-Governor transmits Estimates of certain sums required for the ser
vice of the Province, until the Estimates for the year 1898 are finally passed, and
recommends them to the Legislative Assembly.

GOVERNMENT HOUSE,

Toronto, December 20th, 1897.

(Sessional Papers No. 8.)

Ordered, That the Message of the Lieutenant-Governor, together with the Estimates
ompanying the same, be referred to the Committee of Supply.

The House, according to Order, again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That a sum not exceeding two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) be
ted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Civil Government, and for other
purposes (as mentioned in the statement accompanying the Message of the Lieutenant-
Governor to this House), and from the 1st day of January, 1898, to the passing of the
Appropriation Act for the year 1898, and not exceeding the last day of February, 1898.
Such expenditures to be confined to the ordinary necessary payments for the different
icos to which they respectively relate, and a detailed statement of such expenditure
be laid before the House before the second reading of the Appropriation Act of 1898,
d the details of the said several services to be included in the detailed Estimates to be
brought down to this House, as though this Resolution had not passed ; it being de-
clared that the expenditure under the head of " Public Works and Buildings " shall, in
all cases, be confined to lapsed appropriations for 1897.

72 20TH DECEMBER. 1897

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. McPherson reported, That the Committee
had come to a Eesolution ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for leave
to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received forthwith.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-morrow.

Mr. McPherson, from the Committee of Supply, reported a Resolution, which was
read as follows :-r-

Resolved, That a sum not exceeding two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000), be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Civil Government and for other
purposes (as mentioned in the statement accompanying the Message of the Lieutenant-
Governor to this House), from the 1st day of January, 1898, to the passing of the Appro-
priation Ace for the year 1898, and not exceeding the last day of February, 1898. Such
expenditures to be confined to the ordinary necessary payments for the different ser-
vices to which they respectively relate, and a detailed statement of such expenditures
to be laid before the House before the second reading of the Appropriation Act of 1898,
and the details of the said several services to be included in the detailed Estimates, to
be brought down to this House, as though this Resolution had not passed ; it being de-
clared that the expenditure under the head of " Public Works and Buildings " shall in
all cases be confined to lapsed appropriations for 1897.

The Resolution, having been read the second time, was agreed to.

The House, according to the Order, resolved itself into the Committee of Ways and
Means.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of this
Province a sum not exceeding two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000), to meet the
Supply to that extent granted to her Majesty.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. McPherson, reported, That the Committee
had come to a Resolution ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for leave
to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received forthwith.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-morrow.

Mr. McPherson from the Committee on Ways and Means, reported a Resolution,
which was read as follows : —

Resolved, That there be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of this Pro-
vince a sum not exceeding two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000), to meet the Supply
to that extent granted to Her Majesty.

61 Vic. 20TH AND 2 IST DECEMBER. 73

The Resolution, having been read the second time, was agreed to.

Mr. Davis presented to the House, by Command of His Honour the Lientenant-
Governor : —

Special Report on Examinations, being Appendix to Report of Minister. (Sessional
Papers No. 1.)

Also — Report of the Standing Committee on Finance, 1897-8, of University of
Toronto. (Sessional Papers No. 37.)

The House then adjourned at 5.15 p.m.

Tuesday, 21st December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Whitney, the Petition of the Iroquois Epworth League.

By Mr. Burt, the Petition of S. B. Wilson and others of Paris.

By Mr. McKay (Victoria), the Petition of Providence Lodge No. 30, 1. 0. G. T., Little
Britain.

By Mr. Dana, the Petition of John Robb and others of Athens.

By Mr. Bush, the Petition of Henry Conley and others of South Mountain] also, the
Petition of North Augusta Division No. 3, S. O. T.; also, the Petition of Erastus Grant
and others of Cardinal ; also, the Petition of James Stuart and others ; also, the Petition
of Herbert B. Patton and others, all of Prescott • also, the Petition of S. T. Foster and
others of Algonquin ; also, the Petition of Eben Scott and others of Augusta.

By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of Goldstone Epworth League ; also, the Petition of
Palmerston District Epworth League.

By Mr. Gamey, the Petition of C. R. Sing and others of Grey.

By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of Newcastle Methodist Church.

By Mr. Dynes, the Petition of the Township Council of East Luther.

By Mr. Moore, the Petition of New Hope Council No. 66, R. T of T.

By Mr. Langford, the Petition of the Township Council of Draper.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of A. T. Crombie and others ; also, the Petition of
Solomon Sylvester and others, all of Toronto.

74 21sx DECEMBER 1897

By Mr. Currie, the Petition of Bay Council No. 108, E. T. of T.

By Mr. McKay (Oxford), the Petition of East Oxford St. Andrew's Church.

By Mr. Carnegie, the Petition of Norland Circuit E. L. of C. E.

By Mr. Smith, the Petition of Port Credit W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Garrow, the Petition of John Norton and others of Colborne.

By Mr. Caven, the Petition of the Township Council of Hallowell.

By Mr. McLean, the Petition of W. A. Finlay and others of Alma j also, the Petition
of Seaforth W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Magwood, the Petition of Listowel W. 0. T. U.; also, the Petition of Trow-
bridge Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of the Listowel S. E. L. of 0. E.; also, the
Petition of Ezra Kneehtel and others of Perth.

By Mr. Preston, the Petition of the Township Council 'of Dalhousie and North
Sherbrooke.

By Mr. Meacham, the Petition of the Odessa Methodist Church.
By Mr. Stratton, the Petition of the Township Council of Harvey.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the Township Council of Oakley, praying certain amendments to the Assessment
Act, respecting the sale of land for Taxes.

Of R. S. Frost of Kinmount \ also, of R. King of Newboro' ; also, of John Werner of
Rat Portage ; also, of W. J. Clarke of Port Arthur, severally praying certain amendments
to the Liquor License Law respecting the sale, by Druggists, of alcohol and liquor.

Of East and West Flamboro' S. S. Association ; also, of Newcastle Methodist Church ;
also, of Molesworth Methodist Church ; also, of St. Albaris Methodist Church, Toronto ;
also, of Hampden Presbyterian Church ; also, of Byron Methodist Church ; also, of
MadiWs E. L. of 0. E.; also, of Tosserontio Calvin Presbyterian Church : also, of Hazzard's
Corners Epworth League ; also, of Lucknow Presbyterian Church ; also, of Kinlough
Methodist Church ; also, of Mildmay C. E. S. ; also, of South Cayuga Zion E. Associa-
tion ; also, of Winthrop Caven Church, McKiUop ; also, of Ventnor E. L. No. 27 ; also, of
North Augusta Methodist Church ; also, of Fort William W. C. T. U. ; also, of Ayr
Methodist Church ; also, of Mulmur Black Bank Presbyterian Church ; also, of Violet
E. L. of C. E. ; also, of Wilton M. Y. P. S., Lennox ; also, of Sturgeon Falls U. S. S. ;
also, of Warren Methodist Church, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor
License Law respecting the power of the electors to further limit the hours of sale of
liquor where license in force.

Of John Wakefield and others of Dundas ; also, of the Hamilton Typographical
Union No. 129, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting
the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

61 Vic. 21sT DECEMBER. 75

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from the Standing Committee on Private Bills presented
their Third Report which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully considered

Bill (No. 16), " An Act respecting the Sisters of St. Joseph for the Diocese of
Toronto in Upper Canada" and

Bill (No. 23), " An Act respecting by-law No. 205 of the Town of Rat Portage,"
and have made certain amendments thereto respectively.

The Committee have also amended the preamble to the said Bill (No. 16), so as to
make the same conform with the facts as they appear to the Committee.

The Committee would recommend that the fees, less the actual cost of printing, be
remitted on Bill (No. 1 6), on the ground that the Bill relates to a religious institution.

The Committee have also considered

Bill (No. 9), " An Act respecting the Hamilton and Dundas Street Railway Com-
pany."

Bill (No. 1), " An Act to consolidate the floating debt of the Town of North Bay"
and

Bill (No. 14), " An Act respecting The Sydenham Glass Company of Wallaceburg,
Limited," and have made certain amendments thereto.

The Committee have also amended the preambles to Bills Nos. 9 and 1 4 respectively,
so as to make them conform with the facts as they appear to the Committee.

Ordered, That the fees, less the actual cost of printing, be remitted on Bill (No. 16),
Sisters of St. Joseph.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 61), intituled " An Act for better defining the relations between Water
Supply Companies and Municipal Corporations." — Mr. Garrow.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

Bill (No. 62), intituled " An Act respecting County Council Elections."— Mr. Smith.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

Bill (No. 63), intituled "An Act respecting the registration of Deaths."— Mr.
Kidd.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

Bill (No. 64), intituled " An Act to amend the Ontario Game Protection Act."—
Mr. Kidd.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

Bill (No. 65), intituled " An Act respecting Town Councils." — Mr. Caven.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

21ST DECEMBER.

1897

Bill (No. 66), intituled "An Act respecting Coroners." — Mr. Dickenson.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

The Order of the Day for the House to again resolve itself into the Committee of
Supply, having been read,

Mr. Hareourt moved,

That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair.

Mr. Reid (Addington) moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Carnegie,

That all the words of the Motion after the word " That " be struck out and the fol-
lowing substituted " this House is of the opinion that moneys voted for Colonization
Roads in Districts where Municipal Government exists, should, as far as practicable,
and under such inspection as may be necessary to insure the application of such moneys
to the purposes for which they are voted, be expended by the Municipal authorities."

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division : —

YEAS.
Messieurs :

Beatty (Leeds

)) Haggerty,

McCallum,

Preston,

Brower,

Hiscott,

Magwood,

Reid (Addington},

Bush,

Kerns,

Marter,

Reid (Durham),

Carnegie,

Kidd,

Matheson,

St John,

Crawford,

Langford,

Mezcham,

Whitney,

Fallis,

Little,

Miscampbell,

Willoughby.—^.

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Currie,

Harty,

O'Keefe,

Barr,

Dana,

Little,

Pardo,

Baxter,

Davis,

Loughrin,

Paton,

Beatty (Parry Sound), Dickenson,
Bennett, Dryden,

Macnish,
McKay (Victoria),

Pattullo,
Richardson,

Blezard,

Farwell,

McKee,

Robertson,

Burt,

Ferguson,

McLean,

Robillard,

Campbell,

Flatt,

McNaughton,

Ross,

(Jarpenter,

Garrow,

McNeill,

Smith,

Caven,

Gibson (Hamilton), McPherson,

Taylor,

Charlton,

Gibson (Huron),

Middleton,

Truax,

Cleland,

Harcourt,

Moore,

Tucker.— 51.

Conmee,

Hardy,

Mutrie,

PAIRS.

Biqqar

Dunes.

* Hobbs ... ....

•**' y <wo.

Shore.

German ... . . ,

Gurd.

Craig ..... ....

McDonald.

Chappie .... . .

McLaren,

Stratton

, Ryerson.

61 Vic. 21ST DECEMBER. 77

The Original Motion, having been then put, was carried on the same division, and
the House again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the
following sums : —

2. To defray the expenses of the Executive Council and Attorney-Gen-

eral's Department $20,175 00

3. To defray the expenses of the Education Department $19,662 00

4. To defray the expenses of the Crown Lands Department $62,480 00

5. To defray the expenses of the Department of Public Works $22,200 00

6. To defray the expenses of the Treasury Department $32,675 00

7. To defray the expenses of the Provincial Board of Health $7,975 00

8. To defray the expenses of the Provincial Secretary's Department $31,225 00

9. To defray the expenses of the Inspection of Public Institutions $15,500 00

10. To defray the expenses of the Insurance Branch $8,200 00

11. To defray the expenses of the Department of Agriculture $18,060 00

12. To defray the expenses of the Immigration Office $1,800 00

13. To defray Miscellaneous Expenses , $9,800 00

14. To defray the expenses of Legislation $127,100 00

15. To defray the expenses of the Supreme Court of Judicature $67,218 00

16. To defray the expenses of Surrogate Judges and Local Masters $20,722 00

17. To defray the expenses of Miscellaneous, Criminal and Civil Justice. . $349,452 64

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Gharlton reported, That the Committee
had come to several Resolutions ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for
leave to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received To morrow.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-morrow.

The House then adjourned at 10.25 p.m.

78 22ND DECEMBER 1897

Wednesday, 22nd December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Davis, the Petition of the Stouftville Congregational Ohurch ; also, the
Petition of the Township Council of North Gwillimbury.

By Mr. Richardson, two Petitions of the County Council of York ; also, the Petition
of the Stouffville Congregational Ohurch ; also, the Petition of the Scarboro* Mt. Meldrum
S. 0. T.

By Mr. McNicol, the Petition of the Durham C. E. S.; also, the Petition of the
Durham W. F. M. S.

By Mr. Carpenter, two Petitions of Villa Nova Council No. 22, R. T. of T.
By Mr. Shore, the Petition of B. Parkinson and others of Birr.

By Mr. McLaren, the Petition of Division No. 69, S. 0. T.; also, the Petition of
E. L. of C. E.; also, the Petition of the S. 0. T., all of Marlbank.

By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of the Township Council of Storrington.
By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of Zion Church E. L. of C. E.
By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of Frederick Baker and others of Limerick.
By Mr. Moore, the Petition of Gait Y. P. S. of C. E.

By Mr. Beatty (Leeds), the Petition of Athens W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition of
the Township Council of Bastedo and Burgess ; also, the Petition of Lake Eliada W. 0.
T. U.; also, the Petition of Delta Epworth League.

By Mr. Fallis, the Petition of the Village Council of Millbrook.

By Mr. McNaughton, the Petition of the Wiarton Baptist Church.

By Mr. Bush, the Petition of North Augusta W. 0. T. U.

By Mr. Little, the Petition of Cataract Methodist Ohurch.

By Mr. Preston, the Petition of the Township Council of Lanark.

By Mr. Charlton, the Petition of Selkirk Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of
Rainham Centre Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of Cheapside Baptist Church.

By Mr. Baxter, the Petition of the South Cayuga Y. P. A. of E. W.
By Mr. McLean, the Petition of G. A. Poplestone and others of Exeter.

By Mr. German, the Petition of Allanburg Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of
Port Colborne Baptist Church ; also, the Petition of Port Robinson Division S. 0. T.

By Mr. Par do, the Petition of Dawn Mills Circuit Epworth League.

The following Petitions were read and received • —

Of the Hamilton Cataract Power Company, Limited, praying that an Act may pass
to confirm letters patent and certain Municipal By-laws.

61 Vic. 22ND DECEMBER. 79

Of the Hamilton Radial Electric Railway Company, praying that an Act may pass
to amend their Act of incorporation.

Of the City Council of Hamilton, praying that an Act may pass to confirm By-law
No. 842, relating to the Oity Hospital.

Of the Corporation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Loretto, praying that an Act may
pass to change the name of the Corporation to that of the Loretto Ladies' Colleges and
Schools.

Of the County Council ofc Simcoe, praying that an Act may pass to consolidate the
unprovided for debt of the County, and for other purposes.

Of the Waterdown Methodist Church ; also, of Clinton Street Methodist Church
E. L. of C. K; also, of Kinmount Y. P. S. C. E.; also, of Bathurst, Bethel Church ; also,
of Play fair and Fallbrook Y. P. S. C. E.; also, of Queensboro' E. L.; also, of Komoka
Court I. 0. F., No. 3076 ; also, of Bethesda , Methodist Church, Adelaide', also, ofjfill-
brook Council No. 74, R. T. of T.; also, of the Township Council of Roxborough • also,
of the Township Council cf Middleton ; also, of Palgrave, Tecumseth Methodist Church ;
also, of Allandale Y. P. S. of 0. E., severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor
License Law, respecting the power of electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor
where license in force.

Of Glencoe Council No. 417, R. T. of T.; also, of E. S. Hunt and others; also, of
J ' . McEwen and others, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act,
respecting the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

Mr. CJiarlton from the Standing Committee on Public Accounts presented their
First Report which was read as follows : —

The Committee recommend that authority be given the Committee to examine into
such of the accounts of the years 1894, 1895 and 1896 as relate to matters and accounts
to be brought before the Committee during the present Session.

Resolved, That this House doth concur in the first Report of the Committee on
Public Accounts.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton) from the Standing Committee on Private Bills presented
their Fourth Report which was read as follows and adopted :—

The Committee have carefully considered

Bill (No. 31), " An Act to incorporate the Ottawa Stock Exchange " and

Bill (No. 5), " An Act respecting the Town of Walkerton " and have made certain
amendments thereto respectively.

The Committee have also amended the preambles to the Bills Nos. 31 and 5 respec-
tively, so as to make them conform with the facts as they appeared to the Committee.

The Committee have also considered

Bill (No. 19), " An Act to confirm By-law No. 740 of the County of York," and
upon the representation of the Petitioners that they wished to withdraw the Bill at the
request of the representatives of the County of Ontario, in order to enable the repre-

80 22ND DECEMBER. 1897

sentatives of the Counties of York and Ontario to get further instructions from their
respective municipalities to effect negotiations without the aid of the Committee, the
Committee have consented to the Bill being withdrawn.

•

The Committee would recommend that the fees, less the actual cost of printing, be
remitted on the Bill, it having been withdrawn by the Promoters.

Ordered, That the fees, less the actual cost of printing, be remitted on Bill (No. 19),
County of York.

The following Bills were severally introduced and rdad the first time : —

Bill (No. 67), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. Carnegie.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

Bill (No. 68), intituled " An Act to amend the Voters' List Act."— Mr. Chappie.

Orderedt That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

On motion of Mr. Lang ford, seconded by Mr. Carnegie.

Ordered, That there be laid before this House, a Return of copies of papers, docu-
ments and all correspondence between any member or officer of the Government and any
other person or persons in reference to Lot No. 13, Concession 3, Township of Stisted,
and that the Return be brought down during the present Session.

On motion of Mr. German, seconded by Mr. ffobbs,

Ordered, That there be laid before this House, a copy of the Agreement entered
into between the Commissioners of the Queen Victoria, Niagara Falls Park, and the
Niagara Falls Electric Railway Company and the Canadian Niagara Power Company,
for the use of the surplus power of the said Railway Company in the generation of
electricity.

On motion of Mr. St. John, seconded by Mr. Magwood.

Ordered, That there be laid before this House, a Return of copies of all papers,
documents and correspondence betwaen the Government, or any Department thereof,
and any other person, persons or corporations in any way relating to the dealings
of the Moore Lumber Company with the Crown Lands Department or with the
Government ; together with a full return of copies of the evidence taken at the investiga-
tion of the said Company's dealings with the Government, or any Department thereof,
and of all other documents and correspondence in connection therewith, as well as a
copy of the report and finding of the Commissioners appointed to investigate the
same.

The following Bills were severally read the second time : —
Bill (No. 49), For the better auditing of Municipal Accounts.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

Bill (No. 13), Respecting the City of Ottawa.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

61 Vic. 22ND DECEMBER. 81

Bill (No. 25), Respecting the Consolidated Debt of the Town of Cobourg, and for
other purposes.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 2), Respecting the Shebandowan Mining Company, and incorporating
the Frue Shebandowan Gold Mining Company, Limited.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 23), Respecting By-law No. 205 of the Town of Rat Portage.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 1), To consolidate the Floating Debt of the Town of North Bay.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 10), To incorporate the Canadian Consolidated Copper and Nickel
Company.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 20), Respecting the Railway Debenture Debt of the Township of Amabel.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To morrow.

Bill (No. 16), Respecting the Sisters of St. Joseph for the Diocese of Toronto in
Upper Canada.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 9), Respecting the Hamilton and Dundas Street Railway Company.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 14), Respecting The Sydenham Glass Company of Wallaceburg, Limited.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 6), Respecting the
Incorporated Synod of the Diocese of Ottawa, and, after some time spent therein, Mr.
Speaker resumed the Chair; and, Mr. Charlton reported, That the Committee had
directed him to report the Bill without any amendment,

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House, according to Order, again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the
following sums : —

18. To defray the expenses of Public and Separate Schools $454,712 81

19. To defray the expenses of Collegiate Institutes and High Schools .... $114,550 00

6 J.

82 22ND DECEMBER. 1897

20. To defray the expenses of the Museum and Library $7,750 00

21. To defray the expenses of the School of Practical Science $21,870 00

22. To defray the expenses of Public Libraries, Art Schools, Literary and

Scientific $56,750 00

23. To defray Miscellaneous expenses of Education $4,050 00

24. To defray the expenses of Superannuated Teachers $61,300 00

25. To defray the expenses of the Asylum for the Insane, Toronto $97,739 00

26. To defray the expenses of the Asylum for the Insane, London $128,948 00

27. To defray the expenses of the Asylum for the Insane, Kingston $75,294 00

28. To defray the expenses of the Asylum for the Insane, Hamilton $117,943 00

30. To defray the expenses of the Asylum for the Insane, Brockmlle $66,305 00

31. To defray the expenses of the Asylum for Idiots, Orillia $61,098 00

32. To defray the expenses of Central Prison, Toronto $61,300 00

33. To defray the expenses of the Reformatory for Boys, Penetanguishene. $30,130 00

34 To defray the expenses of the Institution for the Deaf and Dumb,

Belleville $44,796 00

35. To defray the expenses of the Institution for the Blind, Brantford . . $32,925 00

37. To defray the expenses of Immigration $10,325 00

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Gharlton reported, That the Committee
had come to several resolutions ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for
leave to sit again.

Ordered^ That the Report be received Tc-morrow.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-morrow.

The House then adjourned at 11 35 p.m.

61 Vic. 23RD DECEMBER. 83

Thursday, 23rd December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Dryden, the Petition of Brooklyn Council No. 102, R. T. of T.

By Mr. Harty the Petition of the Oity Council of Kingston.

By Mr. Garrow, the Petition of the Town Council of Goderich.

By Mr. Macnish, the Petition of the Revd. H. Irvine and others of St. Thomas.

By Mr. Burt, the Petition of J. S. Armitage of Paris.

By Mr. McKay ( Victoria), the Petition of R. McLaughlin and others of Lindsay.

By Mr Gurd, the Petition of the Revd. F. 0. Nichol and others ; also, the Petition
of Wyoming Epworth League Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of Brigden Methodist
Church ; also, the Petition of Wyoming Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of Brad-
shaw Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of Sarnia Queen St. Methodist Church ; also,
the Petition of the Township Council of Enniskillen ; also, the Petition of Marthaville
W. 0. T. U.; also, the Petition of Wheeler Sabbath School ; also, the Petition of Birr
Circuit Presbyterian Church ; also, the Petition of Brigden S. of 0. E.

By Mr. Beatty (Parry Sound), the Petition of the Township Council of Joly ; also,
the Petition of Rosseau Council R. T. of T.; also, the Petition of Novar L. O. L. No. 329 ;
also, the Petition of William Crawford of Burks Falls ; also, the Petition of W. R.
Foot ; also, the Petition of J. Applebe of Parry Sound.

By Mr. McPherson, the Petition of Maxville W. C. T. CT ; also, the Petition of
Thomas Bolster and others of Lancaster ; also, the Petition of Burns, Martintown and
Hephzibah Presbyterian Churches ; also, the Petition of Maxville W. 0. T. U.j also, the
Petition of Alexandria 0. E. S.

By Mr. Q'Keefe, the Petition of H. Gehan and others ; also, the Petition of Edward
T. Reed and others ; also, the Petition of the West End Methodist Church ; also, the
Petition of Journeymen Tailors Union of America ; also, the Petition of the W. C. T. U.,
all of Ottawa.

By Mr. Dickenson, the Petition of Revd. E. B. Chestnut and others of Ancaster \
also, the Petition of David Brown and others of Binbrook ; also, the Petition of Revd.
D Chalmers and others of Ancaster ; also, the Petition of Joseph Turddle and others of
Saltfleet.

By Mr. Truax, the Petition of Sepoy Lodge No. 384, I. 0. G. T.; also, the Petition
of Teeswater W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition of Lucknow W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition
of Culross Star Lodge No. 294, Teeswater.

By Mr. Charltou, the Petition of William Knowles and others

84 23RD DECEMBER. 1897

By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of J. D. S. Anderson and others of Toronto ; also,
the Petition of Thomas Lovejoy and others ; also, the Petition of John McQueen and
others ; also, the Petition of D. McKenzie and others ; also, the Petition of Richard
Wallace and others, all of Hamilton.

By Mr. Mutrie, the Petition of the Guelph Ministerial Association.

By Mr. Carnegie, the Petition of the Phcenix Drug Coy. of Minden ; also, the
Petition of R. Ventress of Bobcaygeon.

By Mr. Stratton, the Petition of Hugh Spears of Toronto.

By Mr. McKay (Oxford)^ the Petition of C. Thompson of Tilsonburg ; also, the
Petition of G. A Jonson of Ingersoll.

By Mr. Campbell, the Petition of the Township Council of McNab.

By Mr. Robertson, the Petition of W. A. Kumpf and others of Waterloo.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of S. B. Wilson and others of Paris ; also, of A. T, Crombie and others ; also, of
Erastus Grant and others ; also, of James Stuart and others, of Prescott ; also, of S. T.
Foster and others of Algonquin ;. also, of Eben Scott and others of Maynard ; also, of
Herbert P. Patton and others ; also, of C. R. Sing and others of Grey ; also, of Solomon
Sylvester and others of Toronto ; also, of John Uorton and others of Colborne ; also, of
W. A. Finlay and others of Alma ; also, of Ezra Kneehtel and others; also, of J. G.
Grosch and others ; also, of Iroquois Epworth League; also, of John Robb and others of
Athens ; also, of Henry Conley and others of South Mountain, severally praying certain
amendments to the Liquor License Law respecting the transaction of business on the
Lord's Day.

Of Trowbridge Methodist Church ; also, of Goldstone Epworth League ; also, of
North Augusta. Division No. 3, R. T. of T. ; also, of Odessa Circuit Methodist Church ;
also, of Port Credit W. C. T. U. ; also, of the Township Council of Hallowell ; also, of
Listowel C. T. U. ; also, of Township Council of Dalhousie ; also, of Township Council
of Harvey ; also, of Palmerston Epworth League ; also, of Providence Lodge No. 30,
I. 0. G. T. ; also, of Norland Epworth League ; also, of East Oxford St. Andrew's Church ;
also, of Bay Council No. 108, R. T. of T. ; also, of the Township Council of Draper ; also,
of New Hope Council No. 66, R. T. of T. ; also, of the Township Council oiEast Luther ;
also, of Seatorth W. C. T. U. ; also, of Newcastle Methodist Church ; also, of Listowel
Epworth League, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law, respect-
ing the power of a majority of Electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where
license in force.

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from The Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Eighth Report, which was read as follows and adopted :—

The Committee have carefully examined the following Petitions and find the notices
as published in each case sufficient :—

Of the Reverend W. J. Herridge and others of Ottawa praying that an Act may pass
to incorporate the Committee of the Ottawa Presbyterian College as the Board of Trustees
under the name of " The Presbyterian Ladies' College, Ottawa" to acquire and hold
property for the purposes of the College ;

61 Vic. 23RD DECEMBER. 85

Of the City Council of Hamilton praying that an Act may pass to confirm By-law
No. 842, relating to the City Hospital ;

Of Angus Sinclair and others of Chatham praying that an Act 'may pass to amend
the Act incorporating the Chatham City and Suburban Railway Company ;

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be
further suspended in this, that the time for presenting Petitions for Private Bills be
further extended until and inclusive of Tuesday the 28bh day of December instant, and
that the time for introducing Private Bills be further extended until and inclusive of the
same date.

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Ninth Report which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the Petition of the Toronto and Scarboro*
Electric Railway, Light and Power Company praying that an Act may pass to amend
Cap. 102, 56 Vic , respecting certain By-laws relating to the Company and find that
notice of the proposed application to this Legislature has appeared for five weeks in
the " Ontario Gazette " and will be complete in the next issue of that paper. The Com-
mittee have also had filed before them a declaration shewing that the said notice has
also appeared in " The Toronto World," a newspaper published in the City of Toronto, in
its issues of dates December 1st, 8th and 15th instant, and that the same will be con-
tinued " in the three next ensuing Wednesday issues," and will be complete on the 5bh
day of January next.

The Committee consider the notices as published sufficient, but would, recommend
that the Bill do not pass its final stage until the full period shall have expired.

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Tenth Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the Petition of the Strathroy and Western
Counties Railway Company praying that an Act may pass to extend the time for the
commencement and completion of the road, and find that notice of the proposed appli-
cation to this Legislature has been published for three weeks in the " Ontario Gazette."
The Committee have also had produced before them a declaration shewing that the notice
has also appeared in the " Strathroy Despatch," a newspaper published in the County of
Middlesex, on the 8th day of December instant, and also in the " Sarnia Observer," a
newspaper published in the County of Lambton, and in the " St. Thomas Journal," a
newspaper published in the County of Elgin on the 10th day of December instant,
being a notice in each County affected ; the declaration further states that the notice
will be continued for six weeks in each of the said newspapers.

As the Petition asks ouly to extend the time for the commencement and com-
pletion of the railway, the Committee consider the notices as published sufficient, but
would recommend that the attention of the Railway Committee be directed to this
matter.

86 23RD DECEMBER. 1897

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Eleventh Report which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the Petition of Archibald Campbell and
others of Toronto praying that an Act may pass to incorporate the Toronto and York
Radial Railway Company, and find that notice of the proposed application to this Legis-
lature has been published in the u Ontario Gazette " for five weeks, and will be complete
in the next issue thereof, and a declaration produced before the Committee shews that
the notice has also appeared in " The Toronto World," a newspaper published in the
City of Toronto, on the 1st, 8th and 15th days of December instant, and that instructions
have been given to insert the notice in the issue of the paper, to be published on the
22nd and 29th of December, 1897, and the 5th of January, 1898

The Petition asks to combine under one management, certain electric railways now
operating and radiating from the City of Toronto, and as none of these railways, the
Committee are informed, is at present constructed beyond the limits of the County of
York, the Committee consider the notices as published sufficient, but would recommend
that the Bill do not pass its final stage until the full term of notice shall have expired.

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee oo Standing Orders presented
their Twelfth Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the Petition of the Coporation of The
Sisters of Our Lady of Loretto praying that an Act may pass to charge the name of
the Corporation to that of " The Lorette Ladies' Colleges and Schools," and have had
produced before them a declaration she wing that the publishers of the " Ontario Gazette "
and the " Catholic Register," a newspaper published in the City of Toronto, have each
received instructions to insert a notice of the proposed application to this Legislature
in the issues of the said newspapers for a period of six weeks.

Although the full term of notice required by the Rules of this Honourable House
is not completed, the Committee are of the opinion that this being a matter simply
relating to the Corporation themselves, and not affecting the Public, sufficient notice
thereof will have been given to all parties interested before the matter comes before the
Private Bills Committee, and would therefore recommend the suspension of the Rule in
this case.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from the Standing Committee on Private Bills presented
their Fifth Report which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully considered

Bill (No. 4), " An Act respecting the City of Toronto"

Bill (No. 8), "An Act respecting the Corporation of the Town of Midland."

Bill (No. 38), " An Act to amend the Acts relating to Victoria University."

Bill (No. 29), " An Act respecting Waterworks in the City of Windsor," and

Bill (No. 11), " An Act respecting certain By-laws concerning Drainage in the Town-
ships of Grey, Elmo, and McKillop," and have made certain ammiiaen.s thereto.

61 Vic. 23RD DECEMBER. 87

The Committee have also amended the preambles to the Bills Nos. 4, 8, 38, 29, and
11 respectively, so as to make them conform to the facts as they appeared to the Com-
mittee.

The Committee have also considered

Bill (No. 18), " An Act respecting the Village of ffuntsville" and

Bill (No. 7), " An Act to confirm a certain agreement between The Grand Trunk
Railway Company of Canada, the St. Clair Tunnel Company and the Town of Samia"
and report the same respectively without amendment.

The Committee would recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be
further suspended in this, that the time for receiving Petitions for Private Bills be
further extended until and inclusive of Tuesday the 28th day of December, instant, and
that the time for introducing Private Bills to this Honourable House be further extended
until and inclusive of Tuesday the said the 28th day of December instant.

Ordered, That the time for presenting Petitions for Private Bills be further extended
until and inclusive of Tuesday, the twenty-eighth day of December instant, and that the
time for introducing Private Bills be further extended until and inclusive of the same date.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time :• —

Bill (No. 37), intituled " An Act to amend the Act incorporating the Strathroy and
Western Counties Railway Company." — Mr. Ross.

Referred to the Committee on Railways.

Bill (No. 27), intituled '• An Act relating to the City Hospital of Hamilton:1— Mr.
Middleton.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 22), intituled "An Act to incorporate the Presbyterian Ladies' College
Ottawa."— Mr. O'Kee/e.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 40), intituled " An Act to amend the Act incorporating the Toronto and
Scarboro' Electric Railway, Light and Power Company, Limited." — Mr. German.

Referred to the Committee on Railways.

Bill (No. 15), intituled " An Act respecting the Chatham City and Surburban Rail-
way Company." — Mr. Par do.

Referred to the Committee on Railways.

Bill (No. 43), intituled " An Act to amend the Act incorporating the Sisters of Our
Lady of Loretto."—WLr. Harty.

Rf ferred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 41), intituled " An Act to incorporate the Toronto and York Radial Railway
Company." — Mr. Stratton.

Referred to the Committee on Railways.

88 23RD DECEMBER. 1897

Bill (No. 69), intituled " An Act respecting Public Libraries in Police Villages." —
Mr. Auld.

Ordered, That the Bill be read a second time on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 70), intituled " An Act relating to Judgment Summonses and other
matters." — The Attorney-General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 71), intituled " An Act to amend the Election Act."— The Attorney-
General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. Ross,

Ordered, That when this House adjourns To-day, it do stand adjourned until Tues-
day the 28th day of December instant.

On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. Ross,

Resolved, That on and after Tuesday the 4th January next, Government Business
shall have precedence over all other business on every day of the Session ; and that there
shall be a Sitting of the House, for Government Easiness only, on every Saturday of
the Session after Saturday the 1st of January next, to begin at Eleven o'clock in the
Forenoon.

The House, according to Order, again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the follow-
ing sums : —

38. To defray the expenses of grants in aid of Agriculture $195,299 00

40. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of Government

House $6,500 00

41. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the old Parlia

ment Buildings $750 00

42. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of new Parliament

and Departmental Buildings $27,820 00

43. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs, Attorney-General's

Department $550 00

44. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs, Grown Lands

Department $1,050 00

45. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs, Treasury Depart

ment $900 00

61 Vic. 23RD DECEMBER. 89

46. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs, Provincial Secre-

tary's Department .'".-. $1,400 00

47. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs, Department of

Agriculture $700 00

48. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs, Department of

Public Works $600 00

49. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs, new Parliament

Buildings, exclusive of Departments , $2,000 00

50. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the Education

Department, Normal School Buildings $8,800 00

51. To defray the expenses of miscellaneous expenditure of Government

and Departmental Buildings $3,480 00

52. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the Normal and

Model School, Ottawa < $4,150 00

53. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the School of

Practical Science, Toronto $4,025 00

54. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs to the Agricultural

College, Guelph $6,325 00

55. To defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs at Osgoode Hall,

Toronto $8,840 00

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had
come to several Resolutions ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for leave
to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received on Tuesday next.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again on Tuesday next.

Mr. Davis presented to the House by Command of His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor :

Report of the Commissioners appointed to revise and consolidate the Public Statutes.
of the Province. (Sessional Papers No. 4®>}

The Houne then adjourned at 5.45 p.m.

90 28TH DECEMBER. 1897

Tuesday, 28th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

Mr. Speaker informed the House

That the Clerk had laid upon the Table the following Certificate : —

Wo, the undersigned, two of the Commissioners of Estate Bills, beg to report to the

Honourable the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Ontario^ in pursuance of Rules

62 and 6.3 of the House, as follows :—

1. We have perused and considered a copy of a certain Bill (No. 17), intituled an
Act respecting the estate of the late Richard Stubbs, and also a copy of the Petition on
which the said Bill is founded, and we are of opinion that, assuming that it is shewn that
the said Harry Garland Stubbs is now of the full age of twenty-one years, and that the
other material facts stated in the preamble are proved to the satisfaction of the House,
it is reasonable that the said Bill do pass into law with certain amendments suggested
below.

2. We suggest that all the words of the Preamble commencing afier the words J< set
forth " in the twenty-second line down to the end be struck out, and the following
substituted therefor: "and whereas it is expedient that the said lands should be
revested in the persons entitled thereto under and by virtue of the said will, and the
persons lawfully claiming from or under them or any of them respectively, subject to the
said lease and the covenants, stipulations, and provisos therein contained respectively,
and also subject to any other leases or mortgages, if any, of the said lands, or any part
thereof lawfully made by the said Alexander King and Hugh Yorston before the passing
of this Act, and that, subject to any Acts lawfully done or rights acquired thereunder,
the said Act should be repealed."

3. We also recommend that clause one be struck out and the following substituted
therefor : —

"(1) Subject to the lease of the llth day of December, 1895, in the preamble
mentioned and the covenants, provisos, and conditions contained therein, and subject to
any other lease or leases, mortgage or mortgages before the passing of this Act lawfully
made by the said Alexander King and Hugh Yorston, under and by virtue of the powers
conferred upon them in and by the said Act 57 Fie., C. 107, and to the covenants,
provisos and conditions in them or any of them respectively contained, the lands and
pre nises devised ia and by the said will ot the said Richard Stubbs in the said Act
mentioned are hereby revested, for all the interest of the said Richard Stubbs at the time
of his death there io, in the persons entitled thereto under and by virtue of the said will
and the persons lawfully claiming from or under them or any of them, so as the said
persons and the persons claiming under them, respectively, shall have and take the same
estate and interes's in the said lands and no other or greater estate or interest, subject
as aforesaid, than are expressed in and by the said will."

€1 Vic. 28TH DECEMBER. 91

4. We also recommend the addition of the following clause : —

"(1) Except as aforesaid, and saving all Acts and things heretofore lawfully done
under and by virtue thereof the said Act 57 Vic., C. 107, is hereby repealed."

5. We think the Act of 57th Victoria should be repealed to the extent above
expressed, because leases can be made and the estate can be effectively dealt with here-
after under the Settled Estate Act, 1895.

GEO. W. BURTON,
December 23rd, 1897. JAMES MACL.ENNAN.

Ordered, That Bill (No. 17), An Act respecting the estate of the late Richard
Stubbs, be referred to the Standing Committee on Private Bills, with instructions to con-
sider the same with reference to the suggestions of the Commissioners of Estate Bills
thereon.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —
By Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), the Petition of J. G. Shearer and others of Hamilton.
By Mr. Harty, the Petition of the City Council of Kingston.

By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of J. E. Hockey and others of Waterdown ; also, the Petition
of Adam Eaton and others of Strabane.

By Mr. Hiscott, the Petition of the Stone Cutters' Branch, Beamsville.

By Mr. Ryerson, the Petition of the Y. P. S. of 0. E., St. John's Presbyterian
Church ; also, the Petition of James J. Montgomery and others; also, the Petition of Thomas
Butler and others ; also, the Petition of the King St. Methodist Church ; also, the Peti-
t ion of J. Kippin and others j also, the Petition of J. L. Nichol and others ; also, the Peti-
tion of J. Met*. Scott and others, all of Toronto.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of the Revd. J. F. Sweeny and others, of Toronto.

By Mr. Bennett, the Petition of William Wood and others, of Osnabruck ; also, the
Petition of the Rtvd. A. Russell and others.

By Mr. Magwood, the Petition of the Trowbridge Epworth League.

By Mr. Bush, the Petition of Revd. C. P. Emery and others, of Kemptville : also, the
Petition of William Wilson and others, of Prescott.

By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of George Crawford, of Moorefield; also, the Petition of
Hope Church, Minto.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the Town Ojuncil of Goderich, praying that an Act may pass authorizing the
Town to construct and operate a Grain Elevator and for other purposes.

Of the City Council of Kingston, praying certain amendments to the Municipal Act,
respecting the power of Municipalities to exempt Grain Elevators from taxation.

Of the County Council of York, praying certain amendments to the Voters' Lists
Act, rjsp"cting the eligibility of Firm°r'd Sons as Jurors.

92 28TH DECEMBER. 1897

Of the County Council of York, praying certain amendments to the Agriculture and
Arts Act, respecting the Expropriation powers of Societies.

Of J. D. S. Anderson and others of Toronto ; also, of W. A. Kumpf and others of
Waterloo, severally praying for permissive legislation allowing Municipalities to imj ose
a progressive tax on any firm or business house carrying on more than one business.

Of Hugh Spears of Toronto ; also, of G. A. Jonson of Ingersoll ; also, of C. Thomp-
son of Tilsonburg ; also, of R. Ventress of Bobcaygeon ; also, of J. Appleby of Parry
Sound ; also, of the Phcenix Drug Company of Minden ; also, of W. R. Foot of Parry
Sound ; also, of William Crawford of Burks Falls ; also, of /. S. Armitage of Paris>
severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Act, respecting the sale, by
Druggists, of liquor and alcohol.

Of the Stoufville Congregational Church; also, of Gait Y. P. S. C. E.; also, of Zion.
Church E. L. of C. E.; also, of Frederick Baker and others of Limerick ; also, of Davm
Mills Epworth League ; also, of Athens W. 0. T. U.; also, of the Township Council of
Bastard and Burgess ; also, of Lake Eliada W. C. T. U.; also, of Delta Methodist Church ;•
also, of the Village Council of Millbrook ; also, of Wiarton Baptist Church ; also, of
North Augusta W. C. T. TL; also, of Cataract Methodist Church; also, -of the Township
Council of Lanark ; also, of Selkirk Baptist Church ; also, of Rainham Centre Baptist
Church; also, of Cheapside Baptist Church; also, of South Cayuga Y. P. A..
also, of Allanburg Epworth League; also, of Port Colborne Baptist Church; also, of
Port Robinson S. 0. T.; also, of the Township Council of North Gwillimbury ; also, of
Villa Nova Council No. 22, R. T. of T.; also, cf Marlbank E. L. of C. E.; also, of Marl-
bank S. 0. T.; also, of the Township Council of Storrington ; also, of Wyoming E. L.;
also, of Brigden Methodist Church ; also, of Wyoming Methodist Church ; also, of Brad-
shaw Methodist Church; also, of Sarnia Methodist Church; also, of the Township
Council of Enniskillen ; also, of the Marthaville W. C. T. IL; also, of Wheeler S. S.;
also, of Birr Circuit Presbyterian Church ; also, of Brigden Presbyterian Church ; also,
of the Township Council of Joly ; also, of Novar L. O. L. No. 329 ; also, of Maxville
W. Q. T. U.; also, of Burns, Martintown and Hephzibah Presbyterian Churches; also»
of Glengarry W. C. T. U.; also, of Alexandria C. E. S ; also, of Ottawa W. 0. T. U.;
also, of the Township Council of McNab ; also, of Teeswater I. O. G. T., No. 3S4 ; also,
of Teeswater W. 0. T. U.; also, of Lvcknow W. C. T. TJ,; also, of Culross Star Lodge
No. 294, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law, respecting
the power of a majority of electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where
license in force.

Of L. A. Poplestone and others of Exeter ; also, of Mt. Meldrum Division S. 0. T.;
also, of Durham Auxiliary W. F. M. S.; also, of Villa Nova Council No. 22, R. T. of T.;
also, of B. Parkinson and others of London ; also, of Marlbank Division No. 69, S. O. T.;
also, of Durham W. 0 T. U.; also, of Stoufville Congregational Church; also, of the
Revd. F. 0. Nichol and others ; also, of R. McLaughlin and others ; also, of the Guelph
Ministerial Association ; also, of Revd. H. Irvine and others of St. Thomas ; also, of
Brooklin R. T. of T., No. 102 ; also, of Thomas Bolster and oth°rs of Lancaster ; also, of

€1 Vic. 28TH DECEMBER. 93

Edward T. Reed and others of Ottawa ; also, of Rosseau R. T. of T.; also, of Ottawa
Journeymen Tailor's Union of America No. 143 ; also, of David Brown and others of
Saltfleet ; also, of the Revd. E. B. Chestnut and others ; also, of the Revd. D. Chalmers
and others, all of Ancaster ; also, of Joseph Purddle and others of Saltfleet ; also, of
William Snowies and others ; also, of H. Gehan and others of East End Methodist
Church, all of Ottawa ; also, of Thomas Lovejoy and others ; also, of John McQueen and
others ; also, of Richard Wallace and others ; also, of D. McKenzie and others, all of
Hamilton, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the
transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

The following Bill was introduced and read the first time : —

Bill <No. 72), intituled " An Act to amend the Jurors Act." — Mr. Dynes.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

The following Bills were severally read the second time : —

Bill (No. 54), To establish Forest Reserves.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 58), Respecting Water Powers.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 57), To prevent Gambling and Games of Chance at Agricultural
Exhibitions.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

The House, according to Order, again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee.}

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the
following sums : —

8L To defray the expenses of Public Works $37,300 00

82. To defray the expenses of Colonization Roads $95,340 00

83. To defray the expenses of charges on Crown Lands $120,275 00

84. To defray the expenses of Mining Development $26,170 00

85. To defray the expenses of Mining Roads $10,500 00

86. To defray the expenses of the Refund Account, on Education Account $1,000 00

87. To defray the expenses of the Refund Acount, on Crown Lands

Account $19,500 00

88. To defray the expenses of Statute Consolidation $20,000 00

90. To defray Unforeseen and Unprovided Expenses $50,000 00

94 28TH AND 29TH DECEMBER. 1897

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. McPherson reported, That the Committee
had come to several Resolutions ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for
leave to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received To-morrow.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-morrow.

Mr. Davis presented to the House by command of His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor : —

Report of the Provincial Municipal Auditor, ending 30th November, 1897*
(Sessional Papers No. 43.)

The House then adjourned at 5.40 p.m.

Wednesday, 29th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M*
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —
By Mr. Harty, the Petition of R. Gilmour and others of Kingston.
By Mr. Davis, the Petition of the Newmarket W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Pardo, the Petition of the County Council of Kent ; also, the Petition of the
Township Council of Tilbury East.

By Mr. Beatty (Leeds), the Petition of J. D. Arnold and others of Westport.

By Mr. Shore, the Petition of James H. Mair and others ; also, the Petition of Henry
Anderson and others ; also, the Petition of J. M. Kairn and others \ also, the Petition of
R. Gf. Rose and others, all of Westminster.

By Mr. Gamey, the Petition of Flesherton Epworth League.

By Mr. Kidd, the Petition of Revd. W. J. Ellis and others of Riceville ; also, two
Petitions of the County Council of Carleton ; also, the Petition of James Lawson and
others of Billings Bridge.

By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of A. MacKie and others of Lucknow.

By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of the Canada Life Assurance Company and others
of Toronto.

61 Vic. 29TH DECEMBER. 95-

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Order* presented
their Thirteenth Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the following Petitions and find the notices
as published in each case sufficient : —

Of the County Council of Simcoe, praying that an Act may pass to consolidate the
unprovided for debt of the County and for other purposes.

Of the Town Council of Goderich, praying that an Act may pass authorizing the
Town to construct and operate a grain elevator and for other purposes.

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be further
suspended in this, that the time for introducing Private Bills be further extended until

and inclusive of Thursday the 30th day of December instant.

•

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from thejStanding Committee on Private Bills presented their
Sixth Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully considered

Bill (No. 24), " An Act respecting the Kingston, Portsmouth and Cataraqui Railway
Company."

Bill (No. 21), " An Act respecting the Synod of the Diocese of Niagara"

Bill (No. 3), " An Act respecting the City of London."

Bill (No. 32), " An Act to confirm By-law No. 479 of the Town of Ingersoll" and

Bill (No. 26), " An Act respecting the City of tit. Thomas and the St. Thomas Street
Railway Company," and have made certain amendments thereto.

The Committee have also amended the preambles to the said Bills Nos. 24, 21, 32
and 26, respectively, so as to make them conform with the facts as they appear to the
Committee.

The Committee have also considered

Bill (No. 35), " An Act to confirm By-law No. 586 of the Town of Berlin" and
have amended the preamble to the same so as to make it conform with the facts as they
appear to the Committee.

The Committee have also considered

Bill (No. 27), " An Act relating to the City Hospital of Hamilton" and

Bill (No. 22), " An Act to incorporate the Presbyterian Ladies' College, Ottawa,"
and report the same without amendment.

The Committee recommend that the fees, less the actual cost of printing, be remitted
on the said Bill (No. 22), on the ground that the same relates to a religious institution,

The Committee would also recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House
be further suspended in this, that the time for introducing Private Bills be further
extended until Thursday the 30th day of December instant.

96 29TH DECEMBER. • 1897

Ordered, That the time for introducing Private Bills be extended until Thursday the
Thirtieth day of December instant.

Ordered, That the fees, less the actual cost of printing, be remitted on Bill (No. 22),
Presbyterian Ladies' College, Ottawa.

On motion of Mr. jfiddleton, seconded by Mr. Auld,

Ordered, That the Rules of this House be suspended, and that the Petition of the
Canada Life Assurance Company and others of Toronto, relating to the re-arrangement
of the debt of the Town of Toronto Junction, be now read and received.

The following Petition was then read and received : —

Of the Canada Life Assurance Company and others of Toronto, praying that an Act
may pass to re-arrange the Debenture Debt of the Town of Toronto Junction, and for
other purposes.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 44), intituled " An Act respecting the Town of Goderich. — Mr. Garrow.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 28), intituled " An Act respecting the County of Simcoe. — Mr. Paton,
Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 73), intituled " An Act to secure the better observance of the Lord's Day."
— The Attorney- General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 74), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. Stratton.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

On motion of Mr. Miscampbell, seconded by Mr. St. John,

Ordered, That there be laid before this House a Return of copies of all correspond-
ence between the Commissioner of Crown Lands, or any official of the Department and
any person or persons, in reference to the cutting of timber under license or trespass, in
the tract of land known as " Coffin " Addition.

The following Bills were severally read the second time : —

Bill (No. 50), To amend the Municipal Act.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

Bill (No. 51), Respecting the Attachment of Moneys in the hands of the Crown.
Referred to the Legal Committee.

Bill (No. 61), For better defining the relations between Water Supply Companies
and Municipal Corporations.

Referred to the Municipal Committee.

61 Vic. 29TH DECEMBER. 97

Bill (No. 62), Respecting County Council Elections.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

Bill (No, 63), Respecting the Registration of Deaths.
Referred to the Legal Committee.

Bill (No. 65), Respecting Town Councils.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

Bill (No. 31), To incorporate the Ottawa Stock Exchange.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No, 5), Respecting the Town of Walkerton.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 4), Respecting the City of Toronto.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 8), Respecting the Corporation of the Town of Midland.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 38), To amend the Acts relating to Victoria University.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 29), Respecting Water Works in the City of Windsor.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 11), Respecting certain By-laws concerning Drainage in the Townships of
Grey, Elma and McKillop.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 18), Respecting the Village of Huntsville.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 7), To confirm a certain agreement between the Grand Trunk Railway
Company of Canada ; the St. Clair Tunnel Company ; and the Town of Sarnia.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee, severally to consider the following
Bills :—

Bill (No. 13), Respecting the City of Ottawa.

Bill (No. 10), To incorporate the Canadian Consolidated Copper and Nickel
Company.

Bill (No. 25), Respecting the Consolidated Debt of the Town of Cobourg, and for
other purposes.

7 J.

98 29TH AND 30TH DECEMBER. 1897

Bill (No. 20), Respecting the Railway Debenture Debt of the Township of Amabel.
Bill (No. 23), Respecting By-law No. 205 of the Town of Rat Portage.
Bill (No. 9), Respecting the Hamilton and Dundas Street Railway Company.
Bill (No. 1), To consolidate the Floating Debt of the Town of North Bay.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had directed him to report the several Bills with certain Amendments.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bills reported, be severally read the third time To-morrow.

The Order of the Day for the second reading of Bill (No. 52), To amend the Muni-
cipal Act, having been lead,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be withdrawn.

The Order of the Day for the second reading of Bill (No. 56), To amend the Muni-
cipal Act, having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be withdrawn.

The Order of the Day for the second reading of Bill (No. 64), To amend the Ontario
Game Protection Act, having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be withdrawn.
The House then adjourned at 10.45 p.m.

Thursday. 30th December, 1897.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By the Attorney-General, two Petitions of the County Council of Oxford ; also, the
Petition of John Wright and others of Brant County.

By Mr. Whitney, the Petition of Donald Stuart and others of Morrisburg.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of the Yonge St. Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of
Erskine Church ; also, the Petition of E. L. of 0. E. of Yonge St. Methodist Church, all of
Toronto.

61 Vic. 30TH DECEMBER. 99

By Mr. ffobbs, the Petition of Henry S. Saunders and others of London.
By Mr. Middleton, the Petition of John P. Hennessey of Hamilton.

By Mr. Gurd, the Petition of R. J. Geary of Sarnia ; also, the Petition of George Den-
ham of Petrolea,

By Mr. McNicol, the Petition of W. A. Christie and others.

By Mr. Mutrie, the Petition of the City Council of Guelph.

By Mr. Ferguson, the Petition of the County Council of Kent.

By Mr. Caven, the Petition of the Township Council of Hillier.

By Mr. Hiscott, the Petition of St. Catharines W. 0. T. TJ.

By Mr. Currie, the Petition of Lavender Division S. 0. T. No. 322.

By Mr. (JKeefe, the Petition of Louis Carisse and others ; also, the Petition of W.
Borthwick and others ; also, the Petition of Messieurs Lang & Kemp and others ; also,
the Petition of A. Beaudet and others, all of Ottawa.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the City Council of Kingston, praying certain amendments to the Municipal Act,
respecting the licensing of Hawkers.

Of George Crawford, of Moorefield, praying certain amendments to the Liquor License
Act, respecting the sale, by Druggists, of liquor and alcohol.

Of the Hope Methodist Church, Minto Circuit ; also, of Trowbridge Methodist
Church, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law, respecting the
power of a majority of electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where license in
force.

Of the Y. P. S. of C. E., of St. John's Presbyterian Church, Toronto ; also, of Stone
Cutters' Branch, Beamsville ; also, of the Eevd. C. P. Emery and others, of Kemptville ;
also, of William Wilson and others, of Prescott ; also, of Revd. A. Russell and others j
also, of J. Me P. Scott and others ; also, of Thomas Butler and others ; also, of J. L. Nichol
and others ; also, of Revd. J. F. Sweeney and others ; also, of J. Kippin and others ; also,
of John J. Montgomery and others j also, of King St. Methodist Church, all of Toronto ;
also, of William Wood and others, of Osnabruck ; also, of J. E. Hockey and others, of
Water down \ also, of Adam Eaton and others, of Strabane', also, of J. G. Shearer and
others, of Hamilton, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respect-
ing the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Fourteenth Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the Petition of Lewis F. Riggs of Toronto,
praying that an Act may pass to authorize him to practise Dentistry, and find that notice
of the proposed application to this Legislature has appeared in the " Ontario Gazette " of
dates December 11, 18, 25, and has also appeared in "The Toronto World " of dates

100 30TH DECEMBER. 1897

December 10, 17, 24. The Committee have had produced before them a declaration
shewing that instructions have been given the publishers of each of the said newspapers
to continue the said advertisement for three weeks longer.

The Committee consider that this is not a matter of public importance, and that all
parties interested have, by the publication aforesaid, had sufficient opportunity of be-
coming aware of the proposed legislation, and would, therefore, recommend the suspen-
sion of the Rule in this case, and that the notices be held sufficient.

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Fifteenth Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the Petition of the Hamilton Cataract
Power Company, Limited, praying that an Act may pass to confirm their Letters Patent
and certain Municipal By-laws, and find that notice of the proposed application to this
Legislature has appeared for two weeks in the " Ontario Gazette," also for two weeks in
" The Hamilton Evening Times," " The Hamilton Spectator," " The Hamilton Hera'd,"
" The Evening Star " of St. Catharines, " The Daily Standard " of St. Catharines, and
" The Evening Journal " of St. Catharines, also that the advertisement has received one
publication in " The Grimsby Independent," " The Seamsville Express " and " The
Thorold Post," and that the advertisement is still current in each of the newspapers,
and that the publishers of each of the newspapers have received instructions to
continue the advertisement in their newspapers for six consecutive weeks.

The Committee also find from the declaration produced that by the publications
above set forth, said advertisement has been published in a newspaper in each of the
municipalities affected by the proposed legislation.

The Committee have also had written evidence produced before them shewing that
various of the municipalities affected have expressed a desire for the passage of the
proposed legislation.

In view of the foregoing, the Committee are of the opinion that all parties interested
have had an opportunity of becoming aware of the proposed legislation, and would, there-
fore, recommend the suspension of the Rule in this case, and that the notices as published
be held sufficient.

Mr. McKay (Oxford), from the Standing Committee on Standing Orders presented
their Sixteenth Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully examined the Petition of the Canada Life Assurance
Company and others of Toronto, praying that an Act may pass to re- arrange the Deben-
ture debt of the Town of Toronto Junction and for other purposes, and find that the
Rules of this Honourable House with regard to publication of notice in this matter have
been complied with.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from the Standing Committee on Private Bills presented
their Seventh Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

61 Vic. 30TH DECEMBER. 101

The Committee have carefully considered

Bill (No. 43), " An Act to amend the Act incorporating the Sisters of Loretto" and
have made certain amendments thereto.

The Oommittee have also amended the preamble to the Bill so as to make the same
conform with the facts as they appear to the Oommittee.

The Committee have also considered

Bill (No. 17), " An Act respecting the Estate of the late Richard Stubbs," and have
made certain amendments thereto in accordanoe with the report of the Commissioners of
Estates Bills.

The Committee recommend that the fees, less the actual cost of printing, be re-
mitted on Bill (No. 43), " An Act to amend the Act incorporating the Sisters of Loretto "
on the ground that the same relates to a religious institution.

The Oommittee would also recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honouraol? House
be further suspended in this, that the time for receiving Reports of Committees rel \tive
to Private Bills be extended until and inclusive of Thursday the Sixth day of January,
1898.

Mr. Dryden, from the Standing Committee on Railways, presented their First Report,
which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Oommittee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be further sus-
pended in this that the time for receiving Reports of Committees relative to Private Bills
be extended until and inclusive of Thursday, the 6th day of January next.

Ordered, That the time for receiving Reports of Committees on Private Bills be
further extended until and inclusive of Thursday, the sixth day of January, 1898.

Ordered, That the fees, less the actual cost of printing, be remitted on Bill (No. 43)
Sisters of Loretto.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —
Bill (No. 36), intituled ll An Act to enable Lewis F. Riggs to practise Dentistry. "-
Mr. St. John.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 42), intituled " An Act respecting the Cataract Power Company, of Hamil-
ton (Limited) "—Mr. Middleton.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 45), intituled " An Act respecting the Debenture Debt of the Town of
Toronto Junction" — Mr. Middleton.

Referred to the Committee on Private Bills.

Bill (No. 75), intituled "An Act to amend the Ontario Game Protection Act." — Mr.
Carnegie.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

102 30TH DECEMBER. 1897

Bill (No. 76), intituled " An Act to amend the Ontario Companies Act." — Mr. Davis*

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 77), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act."— Mr. Middkton.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 78), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. Carnegie.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 79), intituled " An Act to amend the Manhood Suffrage Registration Act/
— The Attorney-General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

Bill {jtf o. 80), intituled " An Act respecting the sale of Patent and other Medicines^
and of Alcohol for the purposes of the Arts and Manufactures." — Mr. Harcourt.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Tuesday next.

On motion of Mr. Dry den, seconded by Mr. Gibson (Hamilton),

That this House will, on Tuesday next, resolve itself into a Committee to consider
the following Resolution : —

That there be paid out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of the Province, to the
owner of any plant destroyed under the provisions of the Act to prevent the spread
of the San Jose scale, a sum not exceeding one-fourth of the value of the plant so
destroyed.

The following Bills were severally read the second time : —
Bill (No. 47), To prevent the spread of the San Jose Scale.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 71), To amend the Election Act.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House on Tuesday next.

Bill (No. 48), To amend the Assessment Act.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.
Bill (No. 67 , To amend the Municipal Act.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. Ross.

Ordered, That when this House adjourns To-day it do stand adjourned until Tuesday
next, the fourth day of January, 1898, at three of the clock in the afternoon.

Mr. Davis presented to the House : —

Return to an Order of the House of the thirty-first day of March, 1897, for a Return
shewing the expenditure on Colonization Roads, Bridges and other Roads in the Province

61 Vic. 30TH DECEMBER AND 4TH JANUARY. 103

for the last five years, shewing in each case the Electoral District or Districts in which
each of the said Colonization Roads, Bridges and other Roads was situated. (Sessional
Papers No. 44.)

The House then adjourned at 5 30 p.m.

Tuesday, 4th January, 1898.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Whitney, the Petition of Harry Canerly and others of Dundas County.
By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of Thomas Henderson and others of Dundas.
By Mr. Little, the Petition of the Belfontaine Methodist Church ; also, the Petition
of W. S. Ferguson and others..

By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of the Y. P. S. C. E. of Chalmer's Church, Armour.

By Mr. Mathescn, the Petition of George Wilson and others ; also, the Petition of
Balderson Y. P. S. 0. E ; also, two Petitions of the Balderson and Drummond Church.
By Mr. McNichol, the Petition of William Nichol&nd others of Durham.
By Mr. Pattullo, the Petition of Embro Y. P. S. C. E. Knox Church.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of A. J. Keeler and others ; also, the Petition of
George Sheardown and others, all of Toronto.

By Mr. McKay (Oxford), the Petition of the Oxford Prohibition Association.
By Mr. Smith, the Petition of the Brampton W. C. T. U.

By Mr. German, three Petitions of the County Council of Welland ; also, the Petition
of the Township Council of Stamford.

By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of the Sunbury Y. P. S. 0. E.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the County Council of Carleton ; also of the County Council of Oxford, severally
praying certain amendments to the Act, respecting the Registration of Deaths.

Of the County Council of Carleton, praying certain amendments to the High School
Act, respecting the maintenance of County Pupils.

Of R. G. Rose and others ; also, of James H. Mair and others ; also, of J. F. Kaiser
and others ; also, of Henry Anderson and others, all of Westminster, praying for legisla-
tion sanctioning the establishment of Mutual Cyclone Insurance Companies.

Of the Township Council of Tilbury East, praying that an Act may pass authorizing
the passing of certain Debenture By-laws.

104 4TH JANUARY. 1898

Of the Newmarket W. 0. T. TL; also, of the Flesherton Methodist Church ; also, of
the St. Catherines W. 0. T. TL; also, of the Township Council of Hillier, severally praying
certain amendments to the Liquor License Law, respecting the power of a majority of the
electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of Henry S. Saunders of London ; also, of R. T. Geary of Sarnia ; also, of George
Denham of Petrolea ; also, of John P. Hennessey of Hamilton, severally praying certain
amendments to the Liquor License Law, respecting the sale, by Druggists, of liquor and
alcohol.

Of R. Gilmour and others of Kingston • also, of J. D. Arnold and others of West-
port ; also, of Revd. W. J. Ellis and others of Riceville ; also, of James Lawson and
others of Billings Bridge ; also, of A. Mackie and others of Lucknow \ also, of Donald
Stuart and others of Morrisburg • also, of John Wright and others of Brantford ; also, of
Lavender Division No. 322, S. 0. T.; also, of W. Christie and others ; also, of Yonge St.
Methodist Church ; also, of E. L. of C. E. Yonge St. Methodist Church ; also, of Erskine
Church, all of Toronto, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act,
respecting the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

Of Louis Carisse and others ; also, of A. Beaudet and others, all of Ottawa, severally
praying that the Bill before the House respecting Departmental Stores may become law.

Of Messieurs Lang & Kemp and others ; also, of William Borthwick and others, all
of Ottawa^ severally praying for permissive legislation allowing municipalities to impose
a progressive tax on any firm or business house carrying on more ihan one business.

Of the County Council of Oxford, praying certain amendments to the Act respecting
the purchase of Toll Roads.

Of the City Council of Guelph, praying certain amendments to the Municipal Act,
respecting the licensing of Hawkers.

Mr. Dryden, from the Standing Committee on Railways presented their Second
Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully considered the following Bills and have prepared cer-
tain amendments thereto respectively : —

Bill (No. 37), To amend the Act incorporating The Strathroy and Western bounties
Railway Company ; and

Bill (No. 12), To incorporate the Smith's Falls, Rideau and Southern Railway
Company.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 81), intituled " An Act to amend the Agriculture and Arts Act." — Mr.
McDonald,

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Thursday next.

€1 Vic. 4TH JANUARY. 105

Bill (No. 82), intituled " An Act respecting Gaols."— The Attorney-General.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

Bill (No. 83), intituled " An Act to amend the Act respecting the Public Service of
'Ontario" — The Attorney-General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

Bill (No. 84), intituled " An Act to make further provision respecting Maternity
Boarding Houses and the protection of Infant Children." — Mr. Davis.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 54), To establish
Forest Reserves, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and
Mr. Pattullo reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill with cer-
tain amendments.

•

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 58), Respecting
Water Powers, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and
Mr. Garrow reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill without
any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 57), To prevent
Gambling and Games of Chance at Agricultural Exhibitions, and, after some time spent
therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Pattullo reported that the Committee
had directed him to report the Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Committee to consider a
certain proposed Resolution respecting the remuneration to owners of Plants destroyed
under the provisions of the Act to prevent the spread of the San Jose Scale, having
been read,

The Attorney-General acquainted the House that His Honour the Lieutenant-Gover-
nor, having been informed of the subject matter of the proposed Resolution, recommends
it to the consideration of the House.

The House tlien resolved itself into the Committee.

106 4TH JANUARY. 1898

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be paid out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of the Province,
to the owner of any plant destroyed under the provisions of the Act to prevent the
spread of the San Jose scale, a sum not exceeding one-fourth of the value of the plant
so destroyed.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair, and Mr. Garrow reported, That the Committee had
come to a Eesolution.

Ordered, That the Report be now received.

Mr. Garrow reported the Resolution as follows : —

The Resolution, having been read the second time, was agreed to, and referred to the
Committee of the Whole House on Bill (No. 47), To prevent the spread of the San Jose
Scale.

The following Bills were severally read the second time : —

Bill (No. 70), Relating to Judgment Summonses and other matters.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 73), To secure the better observance of the Lord's Day.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (JNo. 80), Respecting the sale of Patent and other Medicines and of Alcohol for
the purposes of the Arts and Manufactures.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

The House, according to Order, again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the service of 1898, the follow-
ing sums : —

56. To defray the expenses of works at the Asylum for the Insane,

Toronto $4,135 00

57. To defray the expenses of works at Mimico Branch $6,900 00

58. To defray the expenses of works at the Asylum for the Insane,

London t $8,925 00

61 Vic. 4TH JANUARY. 10T

59. To defray the expenses of works at the Asylum for the Insane,

Hamilton , $8,450 00

60. To defray the expenses of works at the Asylum for the Insane,

Kingston 83,976 00

61. To defray the expenses of works at the Asylum for the Insane,

Brockville ., $9,175 00

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Ckarlton reported, That the Committee
had come to several Resolutions ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for
leave to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received To-day.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-day.

The following Bill was introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 85), intituled "An Act to amend the Surrogate Court's Act."— The At-
torney-General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

The Order of the Day, for the House to again resolve itself into the Committee of
Supply, having been read,

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair.

Mr. Crawford moved, in amendment, seconded by Mr. Preston,
That all the words of the Motion after the word "That " be omitted and the follow-
ing inserted in lieu thereof " this House is of opinion that the Tender System of purchas-
ing supplies for the Public Institutions of the Province should be adopted in lieu of the
system at present carried on."

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division : —

YEAS.

Messieurs :

Beatty (Leeds),

Haycock,

McDonald,

Reid (Durham),

Brower,

Hiscott,

Marter,

St. John,

Bush,

Kerns,

Matheson,

Shore,

Crawford,

Kidd,

Meacham,

Tucker,

Dynes,

Langford,

Preston,

Whitney,

Gurd,

Little,

Reid (Addington)t

Willoughby/ 26

Haggerty,

McCallum,

108

4iH JANUARY

1898

NAYS.
Messieurs :

Auld,
Barr,
Baxter,
Bennett^

Blezard,

J&urt,

Campbell,

Carpenter,

Caven,

Charlton,

Cleland,

Dana,

Davis,

Dickenson

Dry den,

Farwell,

Ferguson,

Field,

Flatt,

Garrow,

German,

Harcourt,

Hardy,

Harty,

Macniah,

McKay (Oxford),

McKee,

McLean,

McNaughton,

McNeill,

McNicol,

Gibson (Hamilton), Middlelon,
Gibson, (Huron,) Moore,

Mutrie,

O'Keefe,

Pardo,

Paton,

Pattullo,

Robertson,

Robillard,

Ross,

Smith,

Stratton,

Taylor,

Truax.—48.

PAIRS,
Loughrin .... .... .... .... Carnegie.

Conmee .... .... Gamey.

Hobbs .... .... .... ... McLwen.

Chappie . . .... .... .... .... Ryerson.

McKay ( Victoria) .... .... .... Miscampbell.

Bronson .... .... .... .... Magwood.

Craig .... .... .... .... Fallis.

Richardson .... .... .... .... Currie.

The Main Motion, having been then again put, was carried on the same division,
and the House again resolved itself into the Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the
following sums : —

64. To defray the expenses of works at the Reformatory, Penfitanguishene $200 00

65. To defray the expenses of works at the Andrew Mercer Reformatory

for Females, Toronto $1,250 00

66. To defray the expenses of works at the Deaf and Dumb Institute,

Belleville $1,800 00

67. To defray the expenses of works at the Blind Institute, Brantford. . $1,215 00

68. To defray the expenses of works at the Agricultural College, Guelph $1,950 00

69. To defray the expenses of works at the Normal and Model School,

Toronto $3,500 00

70. To defray the expenses of works at the Normal School, Ottawa $2,500 00

71. To defray the expenses of works at the School of Practical Science. . $4,200 00

72. To defray the expenses of works at Osgoode Hall, Toronto $2,275 00

61 Vic. 4TH AND 5TH JANUARY. 109

73. To defray the expenses of equipment, works, furnishing and fitting up

of new Parliament and Departmental Buildings $2,500 00

74. To defray the expenses of works in the District of Algoma $1,500 0$

75. To defray the expenses of works in the Thunder Bay District $250 00

76. To defray the expenses of works in the Muskoka District $200 00

77. To defray the expenses of works in the Parry Sound District. $250 00

78. To defray the expenses of works in the Nipissing District $250 00

79. To defray the expenses of works in the Rainy River District $300 00

80. To defray the expenses of Dairy School, Kingston $400 00

39. To defray the expenses of Hospitals and Charities $181,147 4T

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had come to several Resolutions ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for
leave to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received To-morrow.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-morrow.

On motion of Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), seconded by Mr. Harcourt,

Ordered, That the Order of the day for the second reading of Bill (No. 17), Respecting
the Estate of the late Richard Stubbs be discharged, and that the Bill be referred back
to the Standing Committee on Private Bills for further consideration and report.

Mr. Davis presented to the House by command of His Honour the Lieutenant
Governor : —

Preliminary Report of the Forestry Commissioners. (Sessional Papers No. 4$ •)
The House then adjourned at 10.45 p.m.

Wednesday, 5th January, 1898.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of the County Council of Middlesex ; also, the Petition of
the Belmont Methodist Church.

By Mr. Davis, the Petition of the Stouftville Y. P. S. C. E.

110 STH JANUARY. 1898

By Mr. German, the Petition of F. C. Dalton and others of Niagara Falls.

By Mr. Farwell, the Petition of the Township Council of Plummer Additional.

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of the Queensboro' Methodist Church.

By Mr. Biggar, the Petition of the County Council of Hastings ; also, the Petition
of Thomas Sullivan and others of Belleville ; also, the Petition of the Trenton E. L. of C. E. ;
also, the Petition of Belleville Baptist Church B. Y. P. U.; also, th3 Petition of the Tov^n-
ship Council of Sidney ; also, the Petition of the Trenton Methodist Church.

By Mr. Gibson (Huron), the Petition of Thomas J. Simpson and others of McKillop.
By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of the Clifford Methodist Church.

By Mr. Bush, the Petition of D. Cummins and others of Kemptville ; also, the
Petition of William Newman and others of Prescott.

By Mr. Truax, two Petitions of the County Council of Bruce.

By Mr. Reid (Durham), the Petition of the Hampton E. L of C. E.

By Mr. Caven, the Petition of the Township Council of Athol.

By Mr. Maqwood, the Petition of the Troiobridge Methodist Church.

By Mr. McDonald, the Petition of the County Council of Bruce.

By Mr. Currie, the Petition of Thornton Division S. O. T.

By Mr. McNaughton, two Petitions of the County Council of Bruce.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the County Council of Welland, praying that the Commissions of all Police
Magistrates, now and hereafter to be appointed, be extended to cover the whole County, or
Union of Counties, in which they reside.

Of the Sunbury Y. P. S. C. E.; also, of the Balderson Y. P. S. 0. E,; also, of Chalmers
Church Y. P. S. C. E. of Armour ; also, of the Bel fountain Methodist Church ; also, of
Brampton W. C. T. TJ.; also, of the Township Council of Stamford', also, of the Oxford
Prohibition Association ; also, of Balderson and Drummond Church ; also, of Embro Y. P.
S. C. E., severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Act, respecting the
power of a majority of the electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where
license in force.

Of George Sheardown and others of Toronto ; also, of George Wilson and others ;
also, of A. J. Keeler anil others of Toronto ; also, of Harry Canerley and others of Dundas
County ; also, of William Nichol and others of Durham ; also, of W. S. Ferguson and
others of Bond Head ; also, of Thomas Henderson and others of Dundas, severally pray-
ing certain amendmeji.os to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the transaction of business
on the Lord's Day.

Mr. Dry den, front the Standing Committee on Railways presented their Third Re-
port, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully considered the following Bills, and have prepared cer-
tain amendments thereto, respectively : —

€1 Vic. 5Tii JANUARY. Ill

Bill (No. 15), Respecting the Chatham City and Suburban Railway Company, and
Bill (No. 30), Respecting the Sandwich, Windsor and Amherstburg Railway.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from the Standing Committee on Private Bills presented
their Eighth Report, which was read as follows and adopted :—

The Committee have carefully considered

Bill (No. 28), " An Act respecting the County of Simcoe" and report the same with
out amendment.

The Committee have also considered

Bill (No. 39), " An Act to confirm and legalize a By-law of the Town of Colling
wood," and

Bill (No. 44), " An Act respecting the Town of Goderich and have made certain
amendments thereto respectively.

The Committee have also amended the preambles to the Bills Nos. 39 and 44 respec-
tively, BO as to make them conform with the facts as they appear to the Committee.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 86), intituled " An Act to amend the Act respecting the Federation of
the University of Toronto, and University College and other Universities and Colleges."
— Mr Ross.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

Bill (No. 87), intituled " An Act to amend the Ditches and Watercourses Act,
1894."— Mr. Taylor.

& ' Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Friday next.

Bill (No. 88), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. Stratton.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Friday next.

Bill (No. 89), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. McKay
{ Victoria}.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Friday next.

Bill (No. 90), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. Crawford.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Friday next.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 47), to prevent the
d of the San Jose Scale, and, after some time speat therein, Mr. Speaker resumed
:he Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report
ie Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.
The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

112 STH JANUARY. 1898.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 80), respecting the
sale of Patent and other Medicines and of Alcohol, for the purposes of the Arts and
Manufactures, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair; and
Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had made some progress, and directed him
to ask leave to sit again.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill No. 71), to amend the
Election Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and
Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill with
certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.
The amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The Order of the Day for the House to again resolve itself into the Committee of
Supply, having been read,

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair.

Mr. Matheson moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Willoughby,

That all the words of the Motion after the word " That " be omitted and the follow-
ing inserted in lieu thereof, " this House regrets that the present value of the Pro-
vincial Indebtedness for Annuities and Railway Certificates does not appear in the
statement of the liabilities of the Province over and above which a surplus of assets is
declared, and does not appear in the Public Accounts of the Province."

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division : —

YEAS.
Messieurs :

Beatty (Leeds), Haycock, McLaren, Preston,

Brower, Hiscott, McNaughton, Reid (Addington),

Bush, Kerns, McNicol, Reid (Durham),

Carnegie, Kidd, Magwood, St. John,

Crawford, Langford, Marter, Shore,

Dynes, Little, Matheson, Tucker,

Fallis, McGallum, Mezcham, Whitney,

Gurd, McDonald. Miscampbell, Willoughby.—Z$.

Haggerty,

61 Vic.

5TH JANUAKY.

113

NATS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Cleland,

Harcourt,

O'Keefe,

Barr,

Conmee,

Hardy,

Pardo,

Baxter,

Dana,

Harty,

Paton,

Beatty (Parry Sound), Davis,

Hobbs,

Pattullo,

Bennett,

Dickenson,

Macnish,

Richardson,

Biggar,

Dryden,

McKay (Oxford),

Robertson,

Blezard,

Harwell,

McKay (Victoria),

Robillard,

Burt,

Ferguson,

McKee,

Ross,

Campbell,

Field,

McLean,

Smith,

Carpenter,

'Garrow,

McPherson,

Stratton,

Caven,

German,

Middleton,

Taylor,

Chappie,

Gibson (Hamilton),

Moore,

Truax. — 51.

Charlton,

Gibson (Huron),

Mutrie,

PAIRS.

Loughrin . ...

Ryerson.

Craiq

Gameu.

tlatt

McNeiU.

Bronson

Currie.

The Main Motion having been then again put, was carried on the same division, and
the House again rf solved itself into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee )

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the
following sums :

29. To defray the expenses of the Branch Asylum at Mimico $76,236 00

36. To defray the expenses of the Andrew Mercer Reformatory, Toronto.. $22,175 00

63. To defray the expenses of works at the Central Prison, Toronto $13,300 00

62. To defray the expenses of works at the Asylum for Idiots, Orillia. . $4,100 00

Mr. Speaker resumed the Ohair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had come to several Resolutions ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for
leave to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received To morrow.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee severally to consider the following

(ills :—

8 J.

114 5TH JANUARY. 1898

Bill (No. 2), Respecting the Shebandowan Mining Company, and incorporating the
Frue Shebandowan Gold Mining Company (Limited).

Bill (No. 16), Respecting the Sisters of St. Joseph for the Diocese of Toronto in
Upper Canada.

Bill (No. 14), Respecting the Sydenham Glass Company of Wallaceburg (Limited).

Bill (No. 31), To incorporate she Ottawa Stock Exchange.

Bill (No. 5), Respecting the Town of Walkerton.

Bill (No. 4), Respecting the City of Toronto

Bill (No. 8), Respecting the Corporation of the Town of Midland.

Bill (No. 38), To amend the Acts relating to Victoria University

Bill (No. 18), Respecting the Village of Huntsville.

Bill (No. 7), To confirm a certain agreement between the Grand Trunk Railway
Company of Canada^ the St. Glair Tunnel Company and the Town of Sarnia.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had directed him to report the several Bills without any Amendment.

Ordered, That the Bills reported be severally read the third time To-morrow

The following Bills were severally read the second time :—

Bill (No. 53), Respecting Mining Claims.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 24), Respecting the Kingston, Portsmouth and Cataraqui Railway Com-
pany.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 21), Respecting the Synod of the Diocese of Niagara.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 3), Respecting the City of London.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 32), To confirm By-law No. 479 of the Town of Ingersoll.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 26), Respecting the City of St. Thomas and the St. Thomas Street Railway
Company.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

61 Vic. STH JANUARY. 115

Bill (No. 35), To confirm By-law No. 586 of the Town of Berlin.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 27), Relating to the City Hospital of Hamilton.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To morrow.

Bill (.Mo. 22), To incorporate the Presbyterian Ladies' College, Ottawa.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 43), To amend the Act incorporating the Sisters of Loretto.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 37), To amend the Act incorporating the Strathroy and Western Counties
Railway Company.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 12), To incorporate the Smith's Falls, Rideau and Southern Railway Com-
pany.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To morrow.

Bill (No. 59), To amend the Assessment Act.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

Bill (No. 69), Respecting Public Libraries in Police Villages.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

Bill (No. 74), To amend the Municipal Act.
Referred to the Municipal Committee

Bill (No. 77), To amend the Municipal Act.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

The Order of the Day for the second reading of Bill (No. 75) To amend the Ontario
Game Protection Act, having been read,

Ordered^ That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be withdrawn.

The Order of the Day for the second reading of Bill (No. 55), Respecting Depart-
mental Stores, having been read,

Mr. Middleton moved,

That the Bill be now read the second time.

And a Debate having ensued,

Ordered, That the Debate be adjourned until To morrow.
The House then adjourned at 11.55 p.m.

116 GTH JANUARY. 1898

Thursday, 6th December, 1898.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By the Attorney-General, the Petition of R. W. Robertson and others ; also, the
Petition of Frank W. Merrell and others all of Brantford.

By Mr. Ross, the Petition of Delaware Council R. T. of T., No. 162.

By Mr. German, the Petition of the Stamford Methodist Ohurch.

By Mr. Flatt, the Petition of the Township Council of East Flamborj.

By Mr. Robillard, the Petition of John L. Gardiner and others of Vankleek Hill.

By Mr. Burl, the Petition of the Presbyterian Church, St. George.

By Mr. McCallum, the Petition of the Town Council of Forest ; also, the Petition of
Warwick Shield Lodge No. 11 ; also, the Petition of Jubilee Year Division No. 78,
S. O. T; also, the Petition of the Township Council of Warwick ; also, the Petition of
D. Nairn of Florence ; also, the Petition of Ralph E. Scott of Forest ; also, the Petition
of T. P. Taylor ; also, the Petition of N. P. McLaren, all of Watford • also, the Petition
of George M. Ernest of Arkona ; also, the Petition of John B. Dale of Wyoming.

By Mr. Reid (Addington), the Petition of the Bethel E. L. Bath Circuit ; also, the
Petition of Enterprise Division S. O. T., No. 55.

By Mr. Carpenter, the Petition of the Township Council of Towmend.
By Mr. Little, the Petition of the Tottenham and Beeton Methodist Church.
By Mr. St. John, two Petitions of Harold H. Gibson and others of Wtflowdale.
By Mr. Field, the Petition of the Township Council of South Monaghan.
By Mr. Farwell, the Petition of the Chapleau Epworth League.
By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of the Gordon Methodist Church School.
By Mr. Moore, the Petition of the Dundee Methodist Church.

By Mr. Lang ford, the Petition of the Township Council of Ryde ; also, the Petition
of the Township Council of Macauley.

By Mr. Tucker, the Petition of the Minto Circuit Methodist Church.

By Mr. McNeil, the Petition of the Sebringville E. A. Church ; also, the Petition of
the Sebringville W. C. T. U.; also, the Petition of the Logan Methodist Church ; also,
the Petition of the Bethesda Methodist Church.

By Mr. Pattullo, the Petition of the Washington Methodist Church.

61 Vic. 6TH JANUARY. 117

Mr. Dryden, from the Standing Committee on Railways presented their Fourth
Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully considered Bill (No. 40), To amend the Act of Incor-
poration of the Toronto and Scarborough Electric Railway, Light and Power Company
(Limited), and have prepared certain amendments to the said Bill.

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be further
suspended in this, that the time for receiving Reports of Committees relative to Private
Bills be further extended until and inclusive of Friday the 7th Day of January instant.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from the Standing Committee on Private Bills, presented
their Ninth Report, 'which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully considered Bill (No. 33), " An Act respecting the Town
of Trenton," and

Bill (No. 36), " An Act to authorize Lewis Frederick Riggs to practise Dentistry,'
and have made certain amendments thereto respectively.

The Committee have also amended the Preambles to the Bills Nos. 33 and 36, respec-
tively, so as to make them conform with the facts as they appear to the Committee.

The Committee have also amended the Title to Bill No. 36, so that the same now
reads, " An Act to authorize the Royal College of Dental Surgeons of Ontario to admit
Lewis Frederick Riggs as a Student."

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be further
suspended in this, that the time for receiving reports from the Standing Committees
on Private Bills be further extended until and inclusive of Friday, the 7th day of Janu-
ary, instant.

Ordered, That the time for receiving Reports of Committees relative to Private Bills
be further extended until and inclusive of Friday, the seventh day of January, instant.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time :—

Bill (No. 91), intituled "An Act to amend the Woodman's Lien for Wages Act" —
Mr. Farwell.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

Bill (No. 92), intituled " An Act respecting the Revised Statutes of Ontario, 1897."
— The Attorney General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

Bill (No. 93), intituled " An Act to further facilitate the purchase of Toll Roads by
Municipalities." — The Attorney-General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

Bill (No. 94), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Water Works Act."— Mr.
Harty.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

118 6TH JANUARY. 1898

Bill (No. 95), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act,"— Mr. Hobbs.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 53), Respecting
Mining Claims, and, after some time spent therein, Mr Speaker resumed the Chair ; and
Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill with
certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.
The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The following Bills were severally read the second time :—
Bill (No. 76), To amend the Ontario Companies Act.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To morrow.

Bill (No. 82), Respecting Gaols.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 84), To make further provision respecting Maternity Boarding Houses and
the protection of Infant Children.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 85), To amend the Surrogate Courts Act.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow

Bill (No. 15), Respecting the Chatham City and Suburban Railway Company.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole Hou&e To-morrow.

Bill (No. 30), Respecting the Sandwich, Windsor and Amherstlmrg Railway.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 28), Respecting the County of Simcoe.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To morrow.

Bill (No. 39), To confirm and legalize a By-law of the Corporation cf the Town of
Colling wood.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 44), Respecting the Municipality of the Town of Goderich.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No 83), To amend the Act respecting the Public Service of Ontario.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

61 Vic. 6TH JANUARY.

Mr. Stratton, from the Committee of Supply, reported the following Resolutions : —

1. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Three thousand one hundred and eighty
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Lieutenant- Governor's
office, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

2. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Twenty thousand one hundred and seventy-
five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Executive Council
and Attorney- General's office, for the jear ending 31st December, 1898.

3. Resolved^ That a sum not exceeding Nineteen thousand six hundred and sixty-two
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Department of Educa-
tion, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

4. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Sixty-two thousand four hundred and eighty
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Crown Lands Depart-
ment, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

5. Resolved^ That a sum not exceeding Twenty-two thousand two hundred Collars
be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Department of Public Works,
for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

6. Resolved) That a sum not exceeding Thirty-two thousand six hundred and seventy-
five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Treasurer's office for
the year ending 31st December, 1898.

7. Resolved) That a sum not exceeding Seven thousand nine hundred and seventy-
five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Provincial Board of
Health, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

8. Resolved) That a sum not exceeding Thirty-one thousand two hundred and twenty-
five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expecses of the Secretary and Regis-
trar's office, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

9. Resolved) That a sum not exceeding Fifteen thousand five hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Inspection of Public Institutions,
for the year ending 3 1st December, 1898.

10. Resolved) That a sum not exceeding Eight thousand two hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expense* of the Insurance Branch, for the year
ending 31st December, 1898.

11. Resolved) That a sum not exceeding Eighteen thousand and sixty dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Department of Agriculture, for the
year ending 31st December, 1898.

12. Resolved, That a sum not exc. eding One thousand eight hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of ImmigratioD,^or the year ending 31st
December, 1898.

120 6TH JANUARY. 1898

13. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Nine thousand eight hundred dollars, be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the Miscellaneous Expenses of Oivil Government, for
the year ending 31st December, 1898.

14. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One hundred and twenty-seven thousand one
hundred dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Legislation, for the
year ending 31st December, 1898.

15. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Sixty -seven thousand two hundred and
eighteen dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Supreme Court
of Judicature, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

1 6. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Twenty thousand seven hundred and twenty-
two dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Surrogate Judges and
Local Masters, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

17. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Three hundred and forty -nine thousand four
hundred and fifty-two dollars and sixty-four cents be granted to Her Majesty to defray
the expenses of Miscellaneous, Criminal and Oivil Justice for the year ending 31st De-
cember, 1898;

18. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Four hundred and fifty- four thousand seven
hundred and twelve dollars and eighty-one cents be granted to Her Majesty to defray the
expenses of Public and Separate Schools, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

19. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One hundred and fourteen thousand five
hundred and fifty dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Oollegiate
Institutes and High Schools, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

20. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Seven thousand seven hundred and fifty
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Provincial Museum and
Library, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

21. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Twenty-one thousand eight hundred and
seventy dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the School of Practi-
cal Science, Toronto, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

22. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Fifty-six thousand seven hundred and fifty
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Public Libraries, Art Schools,
Literary and Scientific Institutions, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

23. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Four thousand and fifty dollars be granted
to Her Majesty to defray the Miscellaneous expenses of Education, for the year ending
31st December, 1898.

24. Resolved, ThtC a sum not exceeding Sixty-one thousand three hundred dollars
be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Superannuated Public and High
School Teachers, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

61 Vic. GTH JANUARY. 121

25. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Ninety-seven thousand seven hundred and
thirty -nine dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Asylum for
the Insane at Toronto for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

26. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One hundred and twenty-eight thousand nine
hundred and forty -eight dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the
Asylum for the Insane at London, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

27. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Seventy-five thousand two hundred and
ninety-four dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Asylum for
the Insane at Kingston, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

28. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One hundred and seventeen thousand nine
hundred and forty -three dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the
Asylum for the Insane at Hamilton, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

29. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Seventy-six thousand two hundred and
thirty-six dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Mimico Branch
of the Asylum for the Insane at Toronto, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

30. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Sixty-six thousand three hundred and five
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Asylum for the Insane at
Brockville, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

31. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Sixty-one thousand and ninety -eight dollars
be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Asylum for Idiots at Orillia,
for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

32. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Sixty-one thousand three hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Central Prison, Toronto, for the
year ending 31st December, 1898.

33. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Thirty thousand one hundred and thirty
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Ontario Reformatory at
Penetanguishene, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

34. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Forty-four thousand seven hundred and
ninety-six dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Institution for
the Deaf and Dumb, Belleville, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

35. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Thirty-two thousand nine hundred and
twenty-five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Institution
for the Blind at Brantford, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

36. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Twenty-two thousand one hundred and
seventy-five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the eipenses of the Andrew
Mercer Reformatory for Women and Refuge for Girls, Toronto, for the year ending 31st
December, 1898.

122 6TH JANUARY. 1898

37. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Ten thousand three hundred and twenty- five
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Immigration, for the year
ending 31st December, 1898.

38. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One hundred and ninety-five thousand two
hundred and ninety-nine dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of
grants in aid of Agriculture, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

39. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One hundred and eighty-one thousand one
hundred and forty-seven dollars and forty-seven cents be granted to Her Majesty to defray
the expenses of Hospitals and Charities, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

40. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Six thousand five hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of Government
House, for the year ending 31st December, 1898

41. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Seven hundred and fifty dollars be granted
to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of Old Parliament
Buildings, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

42. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Twenty-seven thousand eight hundred and
twenty dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and
repairs of New Parliament and Departmental Buildings, for the year ending 31st Decem-
ber, 1898.

43. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Five hundred and fifty dollars be granted
to Her Majesty to defray the expenses ot maintenance and'jjrepairs of the Attorney-
General's Department, for the year ending 81st December, 1898.

14. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One thousand and fifty dollars be granted
to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the Crown Lands
Department, for the >ear ending 31st December, 1898.

45. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Nine hundred dollars be granted to Her
Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the Treasury Depart-
ment, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

46. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One thousand four hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the Pro-
vincial Secretary's Department, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

47. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Seven hundred dollars be granted to
Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the Department of
Agriculture, foi the year ending 31st December, 1898.

48. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Six hundred dollars be granted to Her
Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the Department of Public
Works, for ihe year ending 31st December, 1898.

61 Vic. GTH JANUARY. 12

49. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Two thousand dollars be granted to Her
Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the new Parliament Build-
ings, exclusive of Departments, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

50. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Eight thousand eight hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs to the
Education Department (Normal School Building), for the year ending 31st December,
1898.

51. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Three thousand four hundred and eighty
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Miscellaneous Mainten-
ance and repairs, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

52. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Four thousand one hundred and fifty
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs
to the Normal and Model School, Ottawa, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

53. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Four thousand and twenty-five dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs of the School
of Practical Science, Toronto, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

54. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Six thousand three hundred and twenty-
five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and
repairs to Agricultural College and Experimental Farm, Guelph, for the year ending
31st December, 1898.

55. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Eight thousand eight. hundred and forty
dollars be grented to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of maintenance and repairs to
Osgoode Hall, Toronto, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

56. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Four thousand one hundred and thirty-five
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the works at the Asylum
for the Insane, Toronto, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

57. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Six thousand nine hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the works at the Asylum for r»e
Insane, Mimico, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

58. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Eight thousand nine hundred and twenty-five
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the works at the Asylum for
the Insane, London, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

59. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Eight thousand four hundred and fifty
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the works at the Asylum,
Hamilton, for the y< ar ending 31st December, 1898.

60. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Three thousand nine hundred and seventy,
five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works at the Asylum
f»r the Insane, Kingston, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

124 GTH JANUARY. 1898

61. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Nine thousand one hundred and seventy-
five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works at the Asylum
for the Insane, JBrockville, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

62. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Four thousand one hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of the Asylum for Idiots at Orillia, for
the year ending 31st December, 1898.

63. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Thirteen thousand three hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works at the Central Prison, Toronto*
for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

64. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Two hundred dollars be granted to Her
Majesty to defray the expenses of works at the Provincial Reformatory, Penetan-
guishene, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

65. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One thousand two hundred and fifty
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of work* at Andrew Mercer
Reformatory for Females, Toronto, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

66. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One thousand eight hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works at the Deaf and Dumb Institute,
Belleville, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

67. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One thousand two hundred and fifteen
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works at the Blind Institute,
Brantford, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

68. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One thousand nine hundred and fifty
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works at the School of
Agriculture, Guelph, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

69. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Three thousand five hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works at the Education Department
and Normal School, Toronto, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

70. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Two thousand five hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works at the Normal School, Ottawa,
for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

71. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Four thousand two hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works at the School of Practical
Science, Toronto, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

72. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Two thousand two hundred and seventy -five
dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works at Osgoode Hall,
Toronto, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

73. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Two thousand five hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works, equipment, furnishins', fitting
up, etc., of New Parliament and Departmental Buildings, for the year ending 31st
December, 1898.

61 Viet. GTH JANUARY. 125

74. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One thousand five hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works in the District of Algoma, for
the year ending 31st December, 1898.

75. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Two hundred and fifty dollars be granted
to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works in the Thunder Bay District, for the
year ending 31st December, 1898.

76. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Two hundred dollars be granted to Her
Majesty to defray the expenses of works in the Muskoka District, for the year ending
3 1st December, 1898.

77. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Two hundred and fifty dollars be granted
to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works in the Parry Sound District, for the
year ending 31st December, 1898.

78. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Two hundred and fifty dollars be granted
to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of works in the Nipissing Distric1', for the year
ending 31st December, 1898.

79. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Three hundred dollars be granted t^> Her
Majesty to defray the expenses of works in Rainy River District, for the year ending
31st December, 1898.

80. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Four hundred dollars be granted to Her
Majesty 1o defray the expenses of works at Dairy School, Kingston, for the year ending
31st December, 1898.

81. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Thirty-seven thousand three hundred dollars
be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Public Works, for the year ending
31st December, 1898.

82. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Ninety-five thousand three hundred and
forty dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of construction and
repairs of Colonization Roads, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

83. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One hundred and twenty thousand two
hundred and seventy-five dollais be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of
charges on Crown Lands, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

84. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Twenty-six thousand one hundred and
seventy dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Mining Develop-
ment, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

85. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Ten thousand five hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Mining Roads, for the year ending 31st
December, 1898.

86. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One thousand dollars be granted to Her
Majesty to defray the expenses of Refund Account, re Education, for the year ending
31st December, 1898.

26 GTH JANUARY. 1898

87. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Eighteen thousand five hundred dollars bo
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Refund Account, re Grown Lards, for
the year ending 31st December, 1898.

88. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Twenty thousand dollars.be granted to Her
Majesty to defray the expenses of Statute Consolidation, for the year ending Slat Decem-
ber, 1898.

90. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Fifty thousand dollars be granted to Her
Majesty to defray the Unforeseen and Unprovided expenses, for the year ending 31st
December, 1898.

The several Resolutions having been again read,

Ordered, That the further consideration of Fifth, Eighth, Ninth, Fourteen^, Fif-
teenth, Eighteenth, Twenty-sixth, Twenty-seventh, Thirty-Third, Thirty -seventh and Foity
Second Resolutions be postponed until To morrow.

The remaining Resolutions were agreed to.

The House resolved itself into a Committee, severally to consider the following
Bills :-

Bill (No. 24), Respecting the Kingston, Portsmouth and Cataraqui Railway Company.

Bill (To. 3), Respecting the City of London.

Bill (No. 32), To confirm By-law No. 479 of the Town of Ingersoll

Bill (No. 26), Respecting the City of St. Thomas and the St. Thomas Street Rail-
way Company.

Bill (No. 35), To confirm By-law No. 586 of the Town of Berlin.
Bill (No. 27), Relating to the City Hospital of Hamilton.

Bill (No. 22), To incorporate the Presbyterian Ladies' College, Ottawa.
Bill (No. 43), To amend the Act incorporating the Sisters of Loretto.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Garrow reported, That the Committee had
directed him to report the several Bills without any Amendment.

Ordered, That the Bills reported, be severally read the third time To-morrow.

Mr. Bennett moved, seconded by Mr. Haycock,

That there be laid before this House, a Return of copies of all correspondence,
subsequent to previous returns, between G. 0. Hays and other persons on his behalf
and the Commissioner of Crown Lands, and between G. 0. Hays and any member of
the Government with reference to the claim G. 0. Hays as having been the first dis-

61 Viet. 6TH JANUARY. 127

coverer of Gold on Lot No. 9 in the 9bh Con. of Marmora. Also, copies of affidavits
made by John W. Taylor and John Feigle, filed in support of such claim, and of all
other affidavits filed since the resignation of the Sandfield McDonald Government, with
the dates of filing. Also, copies of any report made, or the claim by any officials of the
Department of Crown Lands, or by any other person since the date of report made by J.
€. Miller. Also, copies of the decision or decisions, if any, arrived at by the Com mis
sioner, or by the Attorney General or the Government since the report of Mr. Miller,
with reference to such claim. And copies of all letters transmitting to or advising
said Hays of such decisions.

And the Motion, having been put, was lost on a division.

On motion of Mr. Reid (Addington), seconded by Mr. 'Bush,

Ordered, That there be laid before this House a Return shewing all payments made
to Captain John Sullivan, an employe of the Government since January 1st, 1897,
and shewing time list since that date, where he was employed and amount received
since that time. Such Return to state if paid by month, year, fees or day wages.

Mr. Davis presented to the House by command of His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor : —

Return to an Address to His Honour the Lieu tenant- Governor of the seventeenth
day of December, 1897, praying that he will cause to be laid before this House a copy of
the Petition presented to the Lieu tenant- Governor in Council asking for an Audit of the
Books, Vouchers, etc., of the Township of Manvers. A copy of the Commissioners
original report, together with his supplementary report. Also, copies of all correspond-
ence in connection with the matter. (Sessional Papers No. 46>)

Also — Return to an Order of the House of the thirteenth day of December, 1897,
for a Return of copies of all correspondence, papers and documents between the Govern-
ment, or any Department thereof, and all parties who have made application for mining
concessions of a similar nature to those now enjoyed by the Engledue Syndicate under
agreement with the Government ; or any other concessions not now provided for by or
within the provisions of the present Mining Act. (Sessional Papers No.

Also — Return to an Order of the House of the twenty-second day of December,
1897, for a copy of the Agreement entered into between the Commissioners of the Queen
Victoria Niagara Falls Park, and the Niagara Falls Electric Railway Company and the
Canadian Niagara Power Company, for the use of the surplus power of the said Rail-
way Company in the generation of electricity. (Sessional Papers No. 48>)

The House then adjourned at 6 p.m.

128 TTH JANUARY. 1898

Friday, 7th January, 1898.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Hobbs, the Petition of John Bell and others ; also, the Petition of Joseph
Fitzpatrick and others, all of London.

By Mr. Beatty (Leeds), the Petition of the Delta Circuit Methodist Church ; also*
the Petition of W. G. Denton and others of Apple Hill.

By Mr. McPherson, the Petition of the Williamstown Council No. 437, R. T. of T.
By Mr. Mutrie, the Petition of the Guelph Trinity Baptist Church.

By Mr. Beatty (Parry Sound), the Petition of the Township Council of Armour \
also, the Petition of R. J. Anderson and others ; also, the Petition of S. Childerhose and
others, all of Parry Sound ; also, the Petition of the Township Council of Nipissing.

By Mr. Auld} the Petition of W. McSween and others of Leamington.
By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of the South York D. D. S. 0. T.
By Mr. Gleland, the Petition of the Owen Sound Y. M. C. A.
By Mr. Haycock, the Petition of the Sand Hill Y. P. S. C. E.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the County Council of Bruce, praying certain amendments to the Act respecting
the Commitment of persons of tender years, respecting the maintenance of children.

Of the County Council of Middlesex ; also, of the County Council of Hastings,
severally praying certain amendments to the High Schools Act, respecting the mainten-
ance of County Pupils.

Of the County Council of Bruce, praying certain amendments to the Municipal Act
respecting By laws regulating the width of Waggon tires.

Of Thomas Sullivan and otht rs of Belleville, respecting the abolition of all restric-
tions in trade.

Of the County Council of Bruce, praying certain amendments to the County Councils
Act, respecting the representation in County Councils.

Of F. C. Dalton and others of Niagara, praying that the prayer of the Petition of
the Canadian Power Company, re discharge of the waters of its Canal across or under
the Niagara Falls Park, may be granted.

Of the Stou/ville Y. P. S. C. E.; also, of the Township Council of Athol ; also, of
the Trowbridge Methodist Church ; also, of Thornton S. O. T. No. 121 ; also, of the
Belmont Methodist Church ; also, of the Township Council of Plummer Additional ; also,
of the Township Council of Sidney ; also, of the Belleville B. Y. P. U.; also, of Trenton

61 Vic. TTH JANUARY. 129

Methodist Church ; also, of the Queensboro' Methodist Church ; also, ot the Clifford
Methodist Church ; also, of the Hampton E. L. of C. E, ; also, of the Trenton Methodist
Church, severally praying certain amendments to the Liqnor License Law, respecting the
power of a majority of the electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where
license in force.

Of William Newman and others of Prescott ; also, of D. Cummins and others of
Kemptville ; also, of Thomas J. Simpson and others of McKillop, severally praying certain
amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the transaction of business on the Lord's
Day.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from the Standing Committee on Private Bills presented
their Tenth Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —
The Committee have carefully considered

Bill (No. 42), An Act respecting the Cataract Power Company of Hamilton and have
made certain amendments thereto.

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be further
suspended in this, that the time for receiving Reports from the Standing Committees on
Private Bills be further extended until Saturday, the 8th day of January, 1898.

Mr. Dryden, from the Standing Committee on Railways presented their Fifth Re-
port, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be further
suspended in this, that the time for receiving reports of Committees relative to Private
Bills be further extended until Saturday, the 8th day of January, instant.

Ordered!, That the time for receiving Reports from Committees relative to Private
Bills be further extended until Saturday, the Eighth day of January, instant.

Mr. Stratton, from the Standing Committee on Printing presented their Secoi.d Re-
port, which was read as follows : —

The Committee recommend that the following documents be printed : —

Report of the Minister of Education and Appendixes. (Sessional Papers No. 1.)

Report of the Standing Committee on Finance, University of Toronto. (Sessional
Papers No. 31.)

Return showing value of Hogs slaughtered at Humber Piggery. (Sessional Papers
No. 41.)

Report of the Provincial Municipal Auditor. (Sessional Papers No. J3.)

Preliminary Report of the Royal Commission on Forestry. (Sessional Papers
No. 45.)

The Committee recommend that the following documents be not printed : —
Report of the Principal and Statement of the Bursar of Upper Canada College.
(Sessional Papers No. Ifi.)
9J.

130 7TH JANUARY. 1898

Report of the Commissioners appointed to revise the Public Statutes of Ontario.
(Sessional Papers No. 4%>)

Report showing expenditure on Colonization Roads and Bridges. (Sessional Papers

No. 44.)

The Committee recommend that one hundred copies of each of the following Publica-
tions be procured for the use of the members of the legislative Assembly : "The Story
of the Union Jack" by Barlow Cumberland, Esq ; " Humours of 'S7," by Miss K. M.
Lizars " ; " Historic Days of Canada" Calendar, by Miss Fifzgibbon and Miss Mickle.

The Committee also recommend that four thousand copies of the Seventh Report
of the Bureau of Mines ba procured for distribution — through the Bureau— in addition
to the regular number procured for the Legislative Assembly.

Resolved, That this House doth concur in the Second Report of the Committee on
Printing.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time —
Bill (No. 96), intituled <k An Act to amend the Municipal Water Works Act."— Mr.
Dana.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

Bill (No. 97), intituled " An Act to amend the Assessment Act." — Mr. German.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

Bill (No. 98), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. German.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

Bill (No. 99), intituled " An Act respecting Cemeteries."— Mr. Hobbs.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

The following Bills were severally read the third time and passed :—

Bill (No. 6), Respecting +he Incorporated Synod of the Diocese ot Ottawa.

Bill (No. 13), Respecting the City of Ottawa.

Bill (No. 57), To prevent Gambling and Games of Chance at Agricultural Exhibitions.

Bill (No. 58), Respecting Water Powers.

Bill (No. 14), Respecting the Sydenham Glass Company of Wallaceburg (Limited.)

Bill (No. 5), Respecting the Town of WalJcerton.

Bill (No. 4), Respecting the City of Toronto.

Bill (No. 38), To amend the Acts relating to Victoria University.

67 Vic 7TH JANUARY. 131

Bill (No. 18), Respecting the Village of Huntsville.

Bill (No. 26), Respecting the City of St. Thomas and the St. Thomas Street Rail-
way Company.

Bill (No. 35), To confirm By-law No. 586 of the Town of Berlin.
Bill (No. 43), To amend the Act incorporating the Sisters of Loretto.
On motion of Mr. Davis, seconded by Mr. Dryden.

Resolved, That this House doth ratify the following Orders in Council approved
by His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, the 15th day of December, A.D. 1897.

Upon consideration of . the report of Mr. Inspector Chamberlain, dated 15th
November, 1897, and upon the recommendation of the Honourable the Provincial Secre-
tary, the Committee of Council advise that, subject to the ratification of this Order by
the Legislative Assembly, the Royal Victoria Hospital, Barrie, be hereafter taken as
named in " Schedule A " of The Charity Aid Act, and do receive aid in accordance
therewith from the 1st day of September, 1897.

Certified,

J. LONSDALB CAPREOL,

Assistant Clerk, Executive Council.

Upon consideration of the report of Mr. Inspector Chamberlain, dated 19th Novem-
ber, 1897, and upon the recommendation of the Honourable the Provincial Secretary, the
Committee of Council advise that, subject to the ratification of this Order by the Legis-
lative Assembly, the Hotel Dieu Hospital, Cornwall, be hereafter taken as named in
4< Schedule A" of The Charity Aid Act, and do receive aid in accordance therewith from
thelstfdayof July, 1897.

Certified,

J. LONSDALE CAPREOL,

Assistant Clerk, Executive Council.

Upon consideration of the report of Mr. Inspector Chamberlain, dated 15th October
1897, and upon the recommendation of the Honourable the Provincial Secretary, the
Committee of Council advise that, subject to the ratification of this Order by the
Legislative Assembly, the General Hospital, Rat Portage, be hereafter taken as named
in " Schedule A " of The Charity Aid Act, and do receive aid in accordance therewith

from the 1st day of July, 1897.

Certified,

J. LONSDALE CAPREOL,

Assistant Clerk, Executive Council.

132 TTH JANUARY. 1898

Upon consideration of the report of Mr. Inspector Chamberlain, dated 25th
October, 1897, and upon the recommendation of the Honourable the Provincial Secre-
tan , the Committee of Council advise that, subject to the ratification of this Order by
the Legislative Assembly, the Sanitarium for Consumptives, Gravenhurst, be hereafter
taken as named in " Schedule A " of The Charity Act, and do receive aid in accordance
therewith from the 21st day of August, 1897.

Certified,

J. LONSDALE OAPRBOL,

Assistant Clerk, Executive Council.

Upon consideration of the report of Mr. Inspector Chamberlain, dated 5th October,
1897, and upon the recommendation of the Honourable the Provincial Secretary, the
Committee of Council advise that, subject to the ratification of this Order by the
Legislative Assembly, the St. Joseph Hospital, Sudbury, be hereafter taken as named in
" Schedule A " of The Charity Aid Act, and do receive aid in accordance therewith from

the 1st day of October, 1896.

Certified,

J. LONSDALB CAPREOL,

Assistant Clerk, Executive Council.

Upon consideration of the report of Mr. Inspector Chamberlain, dated llth October,
1897, and upon the recommendation of the Honourable the Provincial Secretary, the
Committee of Council advise that, subject to the ratification of this Order by the
Legislative Assembly, the Berlin Orphanage be hereafter taken as named in " Schedule
C" of The Charity Aid Act, and do receive aid in accordance therewith, from the 1st day

of January, 1897.

Certified,

J. LONSDALB OAPRBOL,

Assistant Clerk, Executive Council.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 83), to amend the
Act respecting the Public Service of Ontario, and, after some time spent therein, Mr.
Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed
him to report the Bill without any amendment.

Ordered^ That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 84), To make
further provision respecting Maternity Boarding Houses and the protection of Infant
Children, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr.
Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill with certain
amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

61 Vic. TTH AND STH JANUARY. 133

'I be House jesolvtd itteif into a Comuuu.ee to consider Bill (No. 85), To amend the
Surrogate Courts Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the < 'hair ;
and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill
without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The Order of the Day for resuming the Adjourned Debate on the Motion for the
Second Reading of Bill (No. 55), Respecting Departmental Stores, having been read,

The Debate was resumed,

And after some time it was,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged and that the Bill be withdrawn.

The following Bill was read the second time : —

Bill (No. 68), To amend the Voters' Lists Act.
Referred to the Legal Committee.

The House, according to Order, again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the
following sum : —
89. To defray the expenses of Miscellaneous Expenditure $116,425 00

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair; and Mr. McPherson reported, That the Committee
had come to a Resolution ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for leave
to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received To-morrow.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-morrow.

The House then adjourned at 4.50 p.m.

*
Saturday, 8th January, 1898.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petition was bi ought up and laid upon the Table : —
By Mr. Harty, the Petition of //. D. Bilby and others of Kingston.

134 «TH JANUARY. 1898

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of Frank W. Merville and others ; also, of R. W. Robertson and others, all of Brant-
, severally praying for permissive legislation allowing municipalities to impose a
progressive tax on any firm or business house carrying on more than one business.

Of the Town Council of Forest, praying certain amendments to the Municipal Act
in the direction of extending the Municipal Franchise to Married Women.

Of R. E. Scott of Forest ; also, of D. Nairn of Florence ; also, of John B. Dale of
Wyoming ; also, of George Earnest of Arkona ; also, of W. S. McLaren ; also, of T. B.
Taylor all of Watford, severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law,
respecting the sale, by Druggists, of liquor and alcohol.

Of the Stamford Methodist Church : also, of the Township Council of East Flam-
boro1 ; also, of the Presbyterian Church St. George ; also, of Warwick Shield Lodge No.
178 ; also, of Glen Rae S. 0. T. No. 78 ; also, of the Township Council of Warwick ; also,
of John L. Gardner and others of Vankleek Hill ; also, of the Washington Methodist
Church ; also, of the Bethel Epworth League ; also, of the Township Council of Townsend ;
also, of Beeton and Tottenham Circuit Methodist Church ; also, of Harold H. Gibson and
others ; also, of the Township Council of South Monaghan ; also, of the Chapleau
Methodist Church ; also, of Gordon's School House; also, of Dundee Methodist Church ;
also, of the Township Council of Ryde ; also, of the Township Council of Macaulay ;
also, of Hope Methodist Church; also, of Sebringville Evangelical Association; also, of
Logan Methodist Church ; also, of Sebringville W. C. T. U. ; also, of Bethesda Methodist
Church ; also, of Delaware Council R. T. of T. No. 162, severally praying certain amend-
ments to the Liquor License Law, respecting the ppwer of a majority of electors to
further limit the hours of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of Harold H. Gibson and others of Willowdale ; also, of Enterprise Division, No. 55
S. O. T., severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the
transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

Mr. Gibson, (Hamilton) from the Standing Committee on Private Bills presented
their Eleventh Report which was read as follows and adopted : —

Bill (No. 17), "An Act respecting the Estate of the late Richard Stubbs" having
been referred back to the Standing Committee on Private Bills for further consideration,
the Committee have further considered the Bill and report the same with further amend-
ments

The Committee have also considered

Bill (No. 45), " An Act respecting' the Debenture debt of the Town of Toronto
Junction, and report the same with certain amendments thereto.

The Committee have also amended the preamble to the said

Bill (No. 45), so as to make the same conform with the facts as they appear to tie
Committee.

61 Vic. STH JANUARY. 135

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be farther
suspended in this, that the time for receiving reports from the Standing Committee on
Private Bills be further extended until and inclusive of Tuesday, the eleventh day of
January, instant.

Mr. Dryden, from the Standing Committee on Railways, presented their Sixth
Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee recommend that Rule No. 51 of this Honourable House be further
suspended in this, that the time for receiving reports of Committees relative to
Private Bills be further extended until and inclusive of Tuesday, the llth day of
January, instant.

Ordered, That the time for receiving Reports from Committees on Private Bills
be further extended until and inclusive of Tuesday, the Eleventh day of January
instant.

The Attorney-General, from the Standing Committee on Municipal Law, presented
their First Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully considered Bill (No. 69), " An Act respecting Pub-
lic Libraries in Police Villages," and report the s?me without amendment.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time :—

Bill (No. 100), intituled " An Act to amend the Municipal Act." — Mr. Haycock.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

Bill No. (101), intituled "An Act to regulate the sale and analysis of Concen-
trated Commercial Feeding Stuffs." — Mr. Richardson.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

Bill (No. 102), intituled "An Act to amend the Act respecting the Association
of Ontario Land Surveyors.' Mr. Gibson (Hamilton)

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

Bill (No. 103), intituled " An Act respecting the investment of Court Funds."
— The Attorney-General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time on Monday next.

The following Bills were severally read the third time and passed : —
Bill (No. 47), To prevent the spread of the San Jose scale.

Bill (No. 84), To make further provision respecting Maternity Boarding Houses and
the Protection of Infant Children.

On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. ROB'S,

Resolved, That after Monday next there shall, unless otherwise ordered, be
Two Sittings of the House on each day, the first to begin at eleven of the clock
in the forenoon ; Mr. Speaker to leave the Chair at one of the clock without the question
being put.

136 STH AND IOTH JANUARY. 1898

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 76) To amend the
Ontario Companies Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the
Ohair ; and Mr. McPherson reported, that the Committee had made some progress, and
directed him to ask leave to sit again —

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again on Monday next.

The following Bills were severally read the second time : —

Bill (No. 79), To amend the Manhood Suffrage Registration Act.

Referred to the Committee of the whole House on Monday next.

Bill (No. 86), To amend the Act respecting the Federation of the University of
Toronto and University College with other Universities and Colleges.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

Bill (No. 93), Further to Facilitate the Purchase of Toll Roads by Municipalities.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

Bill (No. 92), Respecting the Revised Statutes of Ontario, 1897.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House forthwith.

The House accordingly resolved inself into a Committee, and, after some time spent
therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Ohair ; and Mr. Charlton reported, That the Committee
had directed him io report the Bill without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time on Monday next.

The House then adjourned at 1 p.m.

Monday, 10th January, 1898.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Craig, the Petition of the Fergus Council, R. T. of T. No. 124 ; also, the
Petition of Mount Forest W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Ferguson, the Petition of Showers' Corners C. E. S., Blenheim.

By Mr. Hiscott, the Petition of the St. Catharines Branch L. D. A.

By Mr. Haggerty, the Petition of the Crookston Branch of Journeymen Stone
Cutters ; also, the Petition of the Hermon and Fort Stewart Methodist Churches.

61 Vic. 10TH JANUARY. 137

By Mr. McDonald, two Petitions of the County Council of Bruce.
The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of Joseph FitzPatrick and others ; also, of John Bell and others, all of London,
severally praying certain amendments to the Assessment Act, respecting the income
exemption tax.

Of W. McSween and others of Leamington, praying certain amendments to the
Assessment Act, respecting the taxation of improvements.

Of the Delta Methodist Church ; also, of the Williamstown Council, No. 437, R. T.
of T.; also, of the Township Council of Armour; also, of the Township Council of
Nipissing\ also, of the South York D. D. S. 0. T.; also, of Sandhill Y. P. S. 0. E.; also,
of Owen Sound Y. M. C. A., severally praying certain amendments to the Liquor License
Act, respecting the power of a majority of electors to further limit the hours of sale of
liquor where license in force.

Of Guelph Trinity Baptist Church ; also, of R. J. Anderson and others ; also, of V.
Childerhose and others, all of Parry Sound ; also, of W. G. Denton and others of Apple
Hill, severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the
transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 104), intituled "An Act to provide for the Garnishment of the Salaries of
Civil Servants." — The Attorney -General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

Bill (No. 105), intituled " An Act respecting Eoads in Unincorporated Townships.''
— Mr. Beatty (Parry Sound.)

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

The following Bills were severally read the third time and passed : —

Bill (No. 9), Respecting the Hamilton and Dundas Street Railway Company.

Bill (No. 16), Respecting the Sisters of St. Joseph for the Diocese of Toronto in
Upper Canada.

Bill (No. 31), To incorporate the Ottawa Stock Exchange.
Bill (No 27), Relating to the City Hospital of Hamilton.
Bill (No. 92), Respecting the Revised Statutes of Ontario, 1897.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (No. 71), To amend the Election
Act having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Committee of the Whole, with instructions to amend the same.

138 I.OTH JANUARY. 1898

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committee ; and, after some time
spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the
Committee had amended the Bill as directed.

Ordered) That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 80), Respect-
ing the sale of Patent and other Medicines, and of Alcohol, for the purposes of the Arts
and Manufactures, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair,
and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill with
certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Orderedt That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 70), Relating
to Judgment Summonses and other matters, and, after some time spent therein, Mr.
Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed
him to report the Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered^ That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 79), To amend the
Manhood Suffrage Registration Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker
resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had made some pro-
gress, and directed him to ask leave to sit again.

Resolved^ That the Committee have leave to sit again To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 86), To amend the
Act respecting the Federation of the University of Toronto and University College with
other Universities and Colleges, and after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the
Chair • and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill
without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill {(No. 69), Respecting
Public Libraries in Police Villages, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker re-
sumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to
report the Bill without any amendment.

Ordered^ That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The following Bills were severally read the second time : —

Bill (No. 102), To amend the Act respecting the Association of Ontario Land Survey-
ors.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

61 Vic. 10m JANUARY. 139

Bill (No. 103), Respecting the investment of Court Funds.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 40), To amend the Act of incorporation of the Toronto and Scarboro' Elec-
tric Railway, Light and Power Company (Limited).

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 33), Respecting the Town of Trenton.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 36), To authorize the Royal College of Dental Surgeons of Ontario to admit
Lewis Frederick Riggs as a Student.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 42), Respecting the Cataract Power Company of Hamilton (Limited.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill ( No. 1 7), Respecting the Estate of the late Richard Stubbs.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 45), Respecting the Town of Toronto Junction.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 46), To amend the General Road Companies Act.
Referred to the M unicipal Committee.

Bill (No. 87), To amend the Ditches and Watercourses Act.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

Bill (No. 81), To amecd the Agriculture and Arts Act.
Referred to the Legal Committee.

Bill (No. 88), To amend the Municipal Act
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

Bill (No. 89), To amend the Municipal Act.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

Bill (No. 90), To amend the Municipal Act.
Referred to the Municipal Committee.

Bill (No. 91), To amend the Woodman's Lien for Wages Act.
Referred to the Legal Committee.

On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. Ross,

Ordered, That when this Housa adjourns To-day, it do stand adjourned until To-
morrow at Three of the Clock, in the afternoon.

140 IOTH JANUARY. 1898

The House resolved itself into a Committee, severally to c msider the following Bills : —
Bill (No. 29), Respecting Water Works in the City of Windsor.

Bill (No. 37), To amend the Act incorporating the Strathroy and Western Counties
Railway Company.

Bill (No. 12), To incorporate the Smith's Falls, Rideau and Southern Railway Com-
pany.

Bill (No. 15), Respecting the Chatham City and Suburban Railway Company, "
Bill (No. 30), Respecting the Sandwich, Windsor and Amherstburg Railway.
Bill (No. 28), Respecting the County of Simcoe.

Bill (No. 39), To confirm and legalize a By-law of the Corporation of the Town of
Collingwood,

Bill (No. 44), Respecting the Municipality of the Town of Goderich.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had directed him to report the several Bills with certain Amendments.

'£ .Q Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bills reported, be severally read the third time To-morrow.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton) presented to the House, by command of His Honour the
Lieutenant-Governor : —

Public Accounts of the Province for the year 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 2.)

Also — Report of the Ontario Agricultural College and Experimental Farm, 1897.
(Sessional Papers No. 17.)

Also — Report of the Fruit Growers' Association of Ontario for the year 1897.
(Sessional Papers No. 18.)

Also — Report of the Fruit Experiment Stations of Ontario for the year 1897.
(Sessional Papers No. 19.)

Also — Report of the Entomological Society of Ontario for the year 1897. (Sessional
Papers No. 20.)

Also — Report of the Bee Keepers' Association of Ontario for the year 1897. (Ses-
sional Papers No. 21.)

Also — Report of the Poultry Associations of Ontario for the year 1897. (Sessional
Papers No. 22.)

Also — Report of the Provincial Instructor in Road making, Ontario, for the year
1897. (Sessional Papers No. 23.)

61 Vic. tOTH AND 11 TH JANUARY. 141

Also — Report of the Batter and Cheese Association?, Ontario, for the year 1897
(Sessional Papers No. 24.)

Also — "Reports of the Live Stock Associations, Ontario, for the year 1897. (Ses-
sional Papers No. 25.)

Also — Report of the Superintendent of Farmers' Institutes, Ontario, for the year
1897. (Sessional Papers No. 26.)

Also— Reports of the Inspectors of Factories, Ontario, for the year 1897. (Sessional
Papers Aro. 27.)

Also — Report of the Ontario Game and Fish Commissioners for the year 1897.
(Sessional Papers No. 30.)

Also — Report of the Bureau of Industries for the Province of Ontario for the year
1897. ( Sessional Pfrpers No. 32.)

Also — Report of the Provincial Board of Health for the year 1897. (Sessional
Papers No 35 )

Also — Report of the Registrar of Loan Corporations, containing the Loan Corpora-
tions Statements for the year 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 36.)

Also — R port of the Superintendent of Spraying, Ontario, for the year 1897.
(Sessional Papers No. 49-)

The House then adjourned at 5 40 p.m.

Tuesday, January llth., 1898.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.

PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Farwell, the Petition of the Sault Ste. Marie St. Andrew's Church.

By Mr. Robertson, the Petition of the Berlin W. C. T. U.

By Mi. German, the Petition of the Revd. John Crawford and others.

By Mr. Crawford, the Petition of the Western W. C. T. U., Toronto.

By Mr. Marter, the Petition of George J. Bishop and others; also, the Petition of
the Ctntral Methodist Church Epworth League, all of Toronto.

The following Petition was read and received : —

Of H. D. Bibby and others of Kingston, praying certain amend tnents to the Assess-
ment Act, respecting the taxation of improvements.

142 HTM JANUARY. 1898

Mr. Dryden, from the Standing Committee on Railways presented their Seventh
Report, which was read as follows and adopted : —

The Committee have carefully considered Bill (No. 41), To incorporate the Toronto
and York Radial Railway Company, and have prepared certain amendments to the Bill.

The following Bill was introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 106), intituled "An Act to amend the Timber Slide Companies' Act."—
Mr. Gibson (Hamilton.)

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

The following Bills were severally read the third time and passed : —

Bill (No. 10), To incorporate the Canadian Consolidated Copper and Nickel Com-
pany.

Bill (No. 25)t Respecting the consolidated debt of the Town of Cobourg and for
other purposes.

Bill (No. 1), To consolidate the floating debt of the Town of North Bay.

Bill (No. 2), Respecting the Shebandowan Mining Company, and incorporating the
Frue Shebandowan Gold Mining Company (Limited.)

Bill (No. 7), To confirm a certain agreement between the Grand Trunk Railway
Company of Canada ; the St. Glair Tunnel Company and the Town of Sarnia.

Bill (No. 24), Respecting the Kingston, Portsmouth and Cataraqid Railway Company.

Bill (No. 37), To amend the Act incorporating the Strathroy and Western Counties
Railway Company.

Bill (No. 15), Respecting the Chatham City and Suburban Railway Company.
Bill (No. 30), Respecting the Sandwich, Windsor and Amherstburg Railway.
Bill (No. 69), Respecting Public Libraries in Police Villages.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (N"o. 8), Respecting the Corpora-
tion of the Town of Midland, having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Committee of the Whole, with instructions to amend the same.

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committee; and, after some time
spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the
Committee had amended the Bill as directed.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House resolved Itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 82), Respecting
Gaols, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr.
Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill with certain
amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

61 Vic. HTH JANUARY. 143

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The? House again resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 76), To amend
the Ontario Companies Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the
Chair ; and Mr. Straiten reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the
Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.
The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 102), To amend the
Act respecting the Association of Ontario Land Surveyors, and, after some time spent
therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had directed him to report the Bill without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House, according to Order, proceeded to take into farther consideration the
Resolutions reported from the Committee of Supply on Thursday last, the consideration
whereof had been postponed.

The Fifth Resolution, respecting the expenses of the Department of Public Works,
having been again read,

Mr. Har court moved,

That the Resolution be now concurred in.

Mr. Willoughby moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Kerns,

That the Resolution be not now concurred in, but be forthwith referred back to the
Committee of Supply with instructions to reduce the item by $4,000, being in reduction
of the sum of $16,400 proposed for salaries of the Officers of the Public Works Depart-
ment.

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division :—

YEAS.
Messieurs :

Beatty (Leeds), Haggerty, McDonald, Preston,

Brower, Haycock, McXeill, Reid (AcMington),

Bush, Hiscott, McNicol, Reid (Durham),

Carnegie, Kerns, Magwood, St. John,

Caven, Kidd, Marter, Shore,

Crawford, Langford, Matheson, Tucker,

Dynes, Little, Meacham, Whitney,

Fallis, McCallum, Miscampbell, Willoughby.—M.

Gurd,

144

HTH JANUARY.

1898

Auld, Craig,

Barr, Dana,

Baxter, Dams,
Beatty (Parry Sound), Dickenson,

Bennett, Dryden,

Blezard, Farwell,

Burt, Ferguson,

Campbell, Field,

Carpenter, Flatt,

Chappie, German,

Charlton, Gibson (Hamilton),

Cleland, Harcourt,
Conmee,

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Hardy,

VKeefe,

Harty,

Pardo,

Hobbs

Paton,

Loughrin,

Pattullo,

Macnish,

Richardson,

McKay (Oxford),

Robertson,

McKay ( Victoria),

Robillard,

McLean,

Ross,

Me IJherson,

Smith,

Middleton,

Stratton,

n), Moore,

Taylor,

Mutrie,

Truax.—W.

PAIRS.

Garrow,
Gibson (Huron)
Biggar

Currie.

McLaren.

Ryerson.

The Resolution was then concurred in.

The Eighth Resolution, respecting the expenses of the Secretary and Registrar's
office, having been again read,

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That the Resolution be now concurred in.

Mr. Bush moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Reid (Addington),

That the Resolution be not now concurred in, but be forthwith referred back to
Committee of Supply with instructions to reduce the item by $900, being salary of addi-
tional Olerk in Registrar General's Branch.

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division : —

YEAS.

Messieurs :

Brower,

Bush,

Carnegie,

Crawford,

Dynes,

Fallis,

Gurd,

Haggerty,

Iliscott,

Kvrns,

Kidd,

Langford,

Little,

McCallum,

McDonald,

Magwood,

Marter,

Meacham,

Miscampbell,

Preston,

Reid (Addington),

Reid ( Durham),

Ryerson,

St. John,

Shore,

Whitney,

WdLoughby.—^.

61 Vic.

1 ITH JANUARY.

145

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Craig,

Hardy,

O'Keefe,

Barr,

Currie,

Harty,

Pardo,

Baxter,

Dana,

Haycock,

Paton,

Beatty (Parry Sound), Davis,

Hobbs,

Pattullo,

Bennett,

Dickenson,

Loughriw,

Richardson,

Blezard,

Dryden,

Macnish,

Robertson,

Burt,

Farwell,

McKay (Oxford),

Robillard,

Campbell,

Ferguson,

McKee,

Ross,

Carpenter,

Field,

McLean,

Smith,

Caven,

Flatt,

McNeill,

Stratton,

Chappie,

(jrerman,

McNicol,

Taylor,

Charlton,

Gibson (Hamilton),

Middleton,

Truax,

Cleland,

Gibson (Huron),

Moore,

Tucker.— tt.

Conmee,

' Harcourt,

Mutrie,

PAIRS.

Garrow,
Bronson, .
Biggar,

McLaren.
Gamey.
Beatty (Leeds.}

The Resolution was then concurred in.

The Ninth Resolution, respecting the expenses of Inspection of Public Institutions,
having been again read,

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That the Resolution be now concurred in.

Mr. Kidd moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Little,

That the Resolution be not now concurred in, but be forthwith referred back to the
Committee of Supply with instructions to reduce the item by $2,400, being the salary of
the Third Inspector of Public Institutions.

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division :—

YEAS.

Messieurs :

Brower,

Haycock,

McLean,

Bush,

Hiscott,

McNeill,

Carnegie,

Kerns,

Magwood,

Crawford,

Kida,

Marter,

Currie,
Dynes,
Fallis,

Langford,
Little.
McCallum,

MathesoK*
Meacham,
Miscampbell,

Gurd,

McDonald,

Pre&ton,

Haggerty,

10 J.

Reid (Addington),

Reid (Durham),

Ryerson,

St. John,

Shore,

Tucker,

Whitney,

Willoughby. — M.

146

HTH JANUARY.

189S

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Craig,

Hardy,

Mutrie,

Barr,

Dana,

Harty,

O'Keefe,

Baxter,

Davis,

Hobbs,

Pardo,

Beatty (Parry

Sound), Dickenson,

Loughrin,

Paton,

Bennett,

Dryden,

Macnish,

Pattullo,

Blezard,

Farwell,

McKay (Oxford),

Richardson,

Burt,

Ferguson,

McKay, (Victoria),

Robertson,

Campbell,

Field,

McRee,

Robillard,

Carpenter,

Flatt,

McLean,

Ross,

Caven,

German,

McNicol,

Smith,

Chappie,

Gibson (Hamilton),

McPherson,

Stratton,

Charlton,

Gibson (Huron),

Middleton,

Taylor,

Cleland,

Harcourt,

Moore,

Truax —53.

Conmee,

PAIRS.

Garrow

Bronson

Biggar

McNaughton.
Gamey.
Beatty (Leeds.)

The Resolution was then concurred in.

The Fourteenth Resolution, respecting Legislation, having been again read,

Mr. Harcourt moved,*

That the Resolution be now concurred in.

Mr. Brower moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Reid (Durham),

That the Resolution be not now concurred in, but be forthwith referred back to the
Committee of Supply, with instructions to reduce the item by $3,000, being a portion of
the estimated expenditure for Sessional Clerks.

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division :

YEAS.

Messieurs :

Brower,

Bush,

Carnegie,

Crawford,

Currie,

Dynes,

Fallis,

Gurd,

Haggerty,

Haycock,

Hiscott,

Kerns,

Kidd,

Langford,

Little,

McCallum,

McDonald,

McLaren,

McNeill,

Magwood,

Marter,

Matheson,

Meacham,

Miscampbell,

Preston,

Reid (Addington),

Reid (Durham),

Ryerson,

St. John,

Shore,

Tucker,

Whitney,

61 Vic.

HTH JANUARY.

147

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Craig,

Hardy,

Mutrie,

Barr,

Dana,

Harty,

O'Keefe,

Baxter,

Davis,

Hobbs,

Pardo,

Beatty {Parry

Sound), Dickenson,

Loughrin,

Paton,

Bennett '•,

. Dry den,

Macnish,

Pattullo,

Blezard,

Farwell,

McKay (Oxford),

Richardson,

Burt,

Ferguson,

McKay ( Victoria),

Robertson,

Campbell,

Field,

McKee,

Robillard,

Carpenter,

Flatt,

McLean,

Ross,

Caven,

German,

McNicol,

Smith,

Chappie,

Gibson (Hamilton),

McPherson,

Strafton,

Charlton,

Gibson, (Huron,)

Middleton,

Taylor,

Cleland,

Har court,

Moore,

Truax.—b3.

Conmee,

McNaughton.
Gamey.
.Beatty (Leeds.)

PAIRS.

Garrow .... .... ....

Bronson .... .... .... ....

Biggar . . .... .... ....

The Resolution was then concurred in.

The Fifteenth Resolution, respecting the Expenses of the Supreme Court of Judica-
ire, having been again read, was concurred in.

The Eighteenth Resolution, respecting the Expenses of Public and Separate Schools,
having been again read,

Mr, Har court moved,

That the Resolution be now concurred in.

Mr. Preston moved, in amendment, seconded by Mr. Matheson,

That the Resolution be not now concurred in, but be forthwith referred back to the
>mmittee of Supply, with instructions to reduce the item by $2,250, being the salary
id travelling expenses of the Director of Teachers' Institutes, and by $15,000, in reduc-
ion of the estimate of $20,000 for examiners for Departmental examinations.

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division :

trower,

larnegie,
Crawford,

Gurd,

Haggerty,

Hiscott,

Kerns,

Kidd,

Lang ford,

Little,

YEAS.
Messieurs :

McCallum,
Mag wood,
Marter,
Matheson,
Me2cham,

Preston,

Reid (Addington),

St. John.

Whitney,

148

HTH JANUARY.

1898

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Currie,

Harty,

Moore,

Barr,

Dana,

Haycock,

Mutrie,

Baxter,

Davis,

Hobbs,

O'Kee/e,

Beatty ( Parry

Sound ), Dickemon,

Loughrin,

Pardo,

Bennett,

Dryden,

Macnish,

Patort,

Blezard,

Dynes,

McDonald,

Pattullo,

Burt,

Farwell,

McKay (Oxford),

Richardson,

Campbell,

Ftrquson,

McKay ( Victoria),

Robertson,

Carpenter,

Field,

McKee,

Robillard,

Caven,

Flatt,

McLaren,

Ross,

Chappie,

German,

McLean,

Shore,

Charlton,

Gibson (Hamilton),

McNeill,

Smith,

Cleland,

Gibson (Huron),

McNicol,

Taylor,

Conmee,

Harcourt,

McPherson,

Truax,

Craig,

Hardy,

Middleton,

Tucker.— 60.

PAIRS,

Garrow

Biggar

Stratton

Gamey.

Beatty (Leeds )
Ryerson.

The Resolution was then concurred in.

The Twenty -sixth Resolution, reaped ing the Expenses of the Asylum for the Insane
at London, having been again read, "

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That the Resolution be now concurred in.

Mr. Magwood moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Meacham,
That the Resolution be not now concurred in, but be forthwith referred back to the
Committee of Supply with instructions to reduce the item by $1,700, in reduction of the
estimate of $3,700 for farm expenses, feed and fodder at the London Asylum.

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division :

YEAS.

Messieurs :

Bennett,

Brower,

Bush,

Carnegie,

Crawford,

Currie,

Dynes,

Fallis,

Gurd,

Haggerty,

Haycock,

Hiscott,

Kerns,

Kidd,

Langford,

Little,

McCallum,

McDonatd,

McLaren,

McNeill,

McNicol,

Magwood,

Marter,

Matheson

Meacham,

Miscampbell,

Preston,

Reid (Addington),

Reid (Durham),

St. John,

Tucker,

Whitney,

61 Vic.

HTH JANUARY.

149

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Craig,

Hardy,

OKeefe,

Barr,

Dana,

Harty,

Pardo,

Baxter,

•Davis,

Hcbbs,

Paton,

Beatty (Parry

Sound) , D Ickenson ,

Loughrin,

Pattullo,

Blezard,

Dryden,

Macnish,

Richardson,

Burt,

Farwell,

McKay (Oxford),

Robertson,

Campbell,

Ferguson,

McKay ( Victoria),

Robillard,

Carpenter,

Field,

McKee,

Ross,

Caven,

Flatt,

McLean.

Smith,

Chappie,

(r erman,

McPherson,

Taylor,

Charlton,

Gibson (Hamilton),

Middleton,

Truax.—50.

Cleland,

jGibsin (Huron),

Moore,

Conmee,

Harcourt,

Mutrie,

PAIRS.

Garrow .... .... .... .... Shore.

Biggar ... .... .... .... .... Beatty (Leeds.)

Bronson .... ... .... .... Gamey.

Stratton . .... .... .... ... Ryerson.

The Resolution was then concurred in.

The Twenty-seventh Resolution, respecting the expenses of Asylum at Kingston, hav-
ing been again read,

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That the Resolution be now concurred in.

Mr. Langford moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Crawford,

That the Resolution be not now concurred in, but be forthwith referred back to
Committee of Supply with instructions to reduce the item by $1,300, in reduction of the
estimate of $3,800 for farm expenses, food and fodder at the Kingston Asylum.

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division :

YBAS.

Messieurs :

Bennett,

Brower,

Bush,

Carnegie,

Crawford,

Currie,

Dynes,

Fallis,

Gurd,

Haggerty,

Haycock,

Hiscott,

Kerns,

Kidd,

Langford,

Little,

McCallurti,

McDonald,

McLaren,

McNeill,

McNicol,

Magwood,

Marter,

Matheson,\

Meacham,

Miscampbell,

Preston,

Reid (Addington),

Reid (Durham),

St. John,

Tucker,

Whitney,

Willoughby.—33.

150

HTH JANUARY.

1898

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Craig,

Hardy,

Mutrie,

Barr,

Dana,

Harty,

O'Keefe,

Baxter,

Davis,

Hobbs,

Pardo,

Beatty (Parry

Sound), Dickenson,

Loughrin,

Paton,

Blezard,

Dry den,

Macnish,

Pattullo,

Burt,

Farwell,

McKay (Oxford),

Richardson,

Campbell,

Ferguson,

McKay ( Victoria),

Robertson,

Carpenter,

Field,

McKee,

Robillard,

Caien,

Flatt,

McLean,

Ross,

Chappie,

German,

Me Pherson,

Smith,

Charlton,

Gibson (Hamilton),

Middleton,

Taylor,

Cleland,

Gibson (Huron),

Moore,

Truax.—50

Conmee,

Harcourt,

PAIRS.

Garrow .... .... .... .... Shore.

Biggar .... .... .... .... .... Beatty (Leeds.)

Bronson .... .... .... .... Gamey

Stratton .... .... .... .... .... Ryerson.

The Resolution was then concurred in.

The Thirty-third Resolution, respecting the expenses of the Ontario Reformatory
at Penetanguishene, having been again read,

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That the Resolution be now concurred in.

Mr. Little moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Kiddt

That the Resolution be not now concurred in, but be forthwith referred back to
Committee of Supply, with instructions to reduce the item by |2,5CO, being $1,200 re-
duction from salary and table allowance of Superintendent, $950 salary of Bursar and
$350 in reduction of salary of Surgeon.

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division :

YEAS.
Messieurs :

Bennett^

Brower,

Bush,

Carnegie,

Crawford,

Currie,

Dynes,

Fallis,

Gurd,

Haggerty,

Haycock,

Hiscott,

Kerns,

Kidd,

Langford,

Little,

McCallum,

McDonald,

McLaren,

McNeil,

Mctficott,

Magwood,

Marter,

Matheson,

Meacham,

Miscampbell,

Preston,

Reid (Addington

Reid (Durham) t

St. John,

Tucker.

Whitney,

Willoughby.—33.

61 Vic.

HTH JANUARY.

151

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Craig,

Hardy,

O'Keefe,

Barr,

Dana,

Harty,

Pardo,

Baxter,

• Davis,

Hobbs,

Paton,

Beatty (Parry

Sound\Dicken&on,

Loughrin,

Pattullo,

Blezard,

Dryden,

Macnish,

Richardson,

Burt,

Farwell,

McKay (Oxford},

Robertson,

Campbell,

Ferguson,

McKay ( Victoria},

Robillard,

Carpenter,

Field,

McKee,

Ross,

Caven,

Flatt,

McLean,

Smith,

Chappie,

German,

McPherson,

Taylor,

Charlton,

/ Gibson (Hamilton),

Middlelon,

Truax.—5Q.

Cleland,

Gibson (Huron),

Moore,

Conmee,

Harcourt,

Mutrie,

PAIRS.
Garrow .... .... ....

Biggar

Bronson ....

Stratton ....
The Resolution was then concurred in.

Shore.

Beatty (Leeds.)

Gamey.

Ryerson.

The Thirty- seventh Resolution, respecting the expenses of Immigration, having been
Again read, was concurred in.

The Forty-second Resolution, respecting the expenses of Maintenance and Repairs of
New Parliament and Departmental Buildings, having been again read,

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That the Resolution be now concurred in.

Mr. Meacham moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Magwood,

That the Resolution be not now concurred in, but be forthwith referred back to
Committee of Supply to reduce the item by $4,000, portion of the estimate of $8,000 for
fuel.

- And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on the following division :

YEAS.

Bennett,

Brower,

Bush,

Carnegie,

Crawford,

Currie,

Dynes,

Fallis,

Gurd,

Messieurs :

H agger til,

McDonald,

Haycock,

McLaren,

Hiscott,

McNeill,

Kerns,

McNicol,

Kidd,

Magwood ,

Langford,

Marter,

Little,

Matheson,

McCallum,

MeacJiam,

Miscampbcll,
Preston,

Reid Addington),
Reid ( Durham),
St. John,
Tucker,
Whitney.
Willoughby. — M.

152

HTH JANUARY.

1898

NATS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Craig,

Hardy,

Mutrie,

Barr,

Dana,

Harly,

O'Keefe,

Baxter,

Davis,

Hobbs,

Pardo,

Beatty (Parry

So nnd)t Dickenson, "

Loughrin,

Paton,

Blezard,

Dryden,

Aiacnislt,

Pattullo,

Burt,

Farweil,

McKay (Oxford),

Richardson,

Campbell,

Ferguson,

McKay ( Victoria),

Robertson,

Carpenter,

Field,

McKee,

Robillarci,

Caven,

Flatt,

McLean,

Ross,

Chappie,

German,

McPhvrson,

Smith,

Charlton,

Gibson (Hamilton},

Middleton,

Taylor^

Cleland,

Gibson ( Huron),

Moore,

Truax.—5Q.

Conmee,

Harcourt,

PAIRS.

Garrow
Biggar .
Bronson
Stratton

Shore.

Beatty (Leeds.)

Gamey.

Ryerson.

The Resolution was then concurred in.

Mr. Stratton, from the Committee of Supply, reported the following Resolution:

89. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One hundred and sixteen thousand four
hundred and twenty-five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of $Mis-
cellaneous Expenditure, for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

The Resolution, having been read the second time,

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That the Resolution be now concurred in.

And the House having continued to sit until twelve of the clock, midnight,

WEDNESDAY, 12th January, 1898.

Mr. Carnegie moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Lang ford,

That the Resolution be not now concurred in, but be forthwith referred back to the
Committee of Supply, with instructions to reduce the item by $10,000, being $5,000
reduction of estimate for Arbitration Expenses and $5,000 reduction of Algonquin
National Park estimate.

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on a division and the Resolution
was then concurred in.

HTH JANUARY.

On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. Ross,

Ordered, That when this House adjourns To-day, it do stand adjourned until Three
of the Clock in the afternoon.

The House resolved itself into a Oommittee, severally to consider the following
Bills :—

Bill (No. 11), Respecting certain By-laws concerning Drainage in the Townships of
Grey, Elma and McKillop.

Bill (No. 36), To authorize the Royal College of Dental Surgeons of Ontario to
admit Lewis Frederick Riggs as a Student.

Bill (No. 42), Respecting the Cataract Power Company of Hamilton (Limited).
Bill (No. 17), Respecting the Estate of the late Richard Stubbs.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair, and Mr. Charlton reported, That the Committee
had directed him to report the several Bills with certain Amendments.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bills reported, be severally read the third time To-day.

Mr. Davis presented to the House, by cDoomand of His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor : —

Report of the Clerk of Forestry, Ontario, for the year 1897. (Sessional, Papers
No. 84.)

Also — Copy of an Order in Council amending the Regulations respecting the shoot-
ing and taking of wild duck and other water fowl in the waters within two miles of
Rondeau Provincial Park in Rondeau Harbour. (Sessional Papers No. 50.)

Also — Copy of an Order in Council respecting the sale of watches, jewellery or other
goods of a like kind in the Algonquin National Park. (Sessional Papers No. 51.)

The House then adjourned at 12.05 a.m.

154 12TH JANUARY. 1898

PRAYERS.

Wednesday, 12th January 1898.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Dana, the Petition of Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, Brockvil/e,
No. 118.

By Mr. Chappie, the Petition of the County Council of Ontario.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the County Council of Bruce, praying certain amendments to the Municipal Act
respecting the power of County Councils to regulate the width of waggon tires.

Of the County Council of Bruce, praying certain amendments to the Act relating to
the commitment of persons of tender years, respecting the maintenance of children.

Of Mount Forest W. C. T. Q,; also, of Fergus R T. of T., No. 124 ; also, of Shower's
Corners 0. E. S., Blenheim ; also, of Hermon and Fort Stewart Methodist Church, severally
praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Act, respecting the power of a maj ority
of electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where license in force.

Of Crockston Branch of Journeymen Stone Cutters Association of North A merica ;
also, of St. Catharines Branch, Lord's Day Alliance, severally praying certain amend-
ments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the transaction of business on the Lord's Day.

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time ; —

Bill (No 107), intituled " An Act to amend the High Schools Act,"— Mr. Ross.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-day.

Bill (No. 108), intituled " An Act respecting Disputes concerned with the purchase
and sale of Cheese." — Mr. Taylor,

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

Bill (No. 109), intituled "An Act to amend the County Crown Attorney's Act." —
The Attorney -General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

The following Bills were severally read the third time and passed : —
Bill (No. 54), To establish Forest Reserves.

Bill (No. 83), To amend the Act respecting the Public Service of Ontario.
Bill (No. 85), To amend the Surrogate Courts Act.

Vic, 12TH JANUARY.

Bill (No. 86), To amend the Act respecting the Federation of the University of
Toronto and University College with other Universities and Colleges.

Bill (No. 44), Respecting the Municipality of the Town of Goderich.
Bill (No. 28), Respecting the County of Simcoe.

Bill (No. 36), To authorize the Royal College of Dental Surgeons of Ontario to admit
Louis Frederick Riggs as a Student.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (No. 3), Respecting the City of
London having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Committee of the Whole, with instructions to amend the same.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (No. 80), Respecting the] sale of
Patent and other Medicines and of Alcohol, for the purposes of the Arts and Manufac-
tures having been read,

Ordered, That the Order bs discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Committee of the Whole, with* instructions to amend the same.

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committee ; and. after some time
spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the
Oommittee had amended the Bill as directed.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

On motion of Mr. Har court, seconded by Mr. Dry den,

Resolved, That this House will, on To-morrow, resolve itself into a Committee to
consider the following Resolutions granting aid to certain Railways : —

1. That there be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund to the undermen-
tioned railway companies for the construction of the portions of railways hereinafter
mentioned, the sums following, that is to say : —

(1) To the Ontario and Rainy River Railway, frou » point at the westerly end
)f the 165 miles heretofore aided to a point at or near Fort Francis, a distance not

weeding 40 miles, a cash subsidy of $3,000 a mile,— $120,000.

(2) To the Pembroke Southern Railway, between Pembroke and Golden Lake, from
point in the north-east part of the Township of Alice to the north-eastern boundary

of the said Township, a distance of 3£ miles, a cash subsidy of $3,000 a mile — $10,000.

156 12TH JANUARY. 1898

(3) To the Irondale, Bancroft and Ottawa Railway, from a point 45 miles from Iron-
dale at the end of the portion oi the railway to which aid was granted in 1896, and
thence due east for a distance of 10 miles, a cash subsidy of $3 000 a mile — $30,000.

(4) (Re-vote.) To the Bay of Quinte Railway (formerly the Kingston, Napanee and
Western Railway), for such extension or branches of irs projected and authorized line
of railway north of the Village of Tweed as will not exceed thirty miles in all, and will
enable the said company to connect its existing line of railway with the iron ore deposits
lying northward of the said Village of Tweed, in renewal of the amount granted to the
said Kingston, Napanee and Western Railway in the year 1893, a cash subsidy of $3,000
a mile— $90,000.

(5) To the James' Bay Railway, to aid in the construction of ninety miles of the
said railway from Parry Sound to a point at or near Sudbury, $3,000 a mile for a distance
not exceeding forty miles ($120,000), and the unearned subsidy of $3,000 a mile for a
distance not exceeding fifty miles which was granted to the Nipissing and James' Bay
Railway in 1 889, which said unearned subsidy is hereby transferred to the James' Bay

Railway. (New vote, $120,000; transferred from other road, $150,000)— $270,000.

2. That all the provisions of section 2 of chapter 35 of the Act passed in the 52nd
year of H< r Majesty's reign, respecting the option of substituting half yearly payments
for forty years in lieu of a cash payment, and all the conditions provided by section 3 of
the said Act shall apply to the said grants.

3. That so much of the subsidies granted to each of the said railways as is not
earned within five years from the time of the passing of the Act granting the same, shall
lapse and revert to the Consolidated Revenue Fund of the Province.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 93), Further to
facilitate the purchase of Toll Roads by Municipalities, and, after some time spent therein,
Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had
directed him to report the Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 103), Respecting
the investment of Court Funds, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed
the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the
Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

61 Vic. 12TH JANUARY. 157

The Attorney -General delivered to Mr. Speaker a Message from the Lieutenant-
Governor, signed by himself ; and the said Message was read by Mr. Speaker, and is as
follows : —

0. MO WAT.

Tne Li 3u tenant-Governor transmits Supplementary Estimates of certain further
ms required to complete the services of the Province, for the year 1898, and recom-
mends them to the Legislative Assembly.
GOVERNMENT HOUSE,

Toronto, llth January, 1898.

(Sessional Papers No. 3.)

Ordered, That the Message of the Lieu tenant- Governor, together with the Estimates
accompanying same, be referred to the Committee of Supply.

The following Bills were severally read the second time : —

Bill (No. 6C), Respecting the Manufacture of Pine cut on the Grown Domain.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 41), To incorporate the Toronto and York Radial Railway Company.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow,

Bill (No. 107), To amend the High Schools Act.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 106), To amend the Timber Slide Companies' Act.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 1C4), To provide for the Garnishment of the salaries of Civil Servants.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 94), To amend the Municipal Water Works Act.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

Bill (No. 105), Respecting Roads in Unincorporated Townships.
Referred to the Legal Committee.

Bill (No. 99), Respecting Cemeteries.
Referred to the Legal Committee.

The House resolved itself into a Committee, severally to consider the following
Bills :—

Bill (No 21), Respecting the Synod of the Diocese of Niagara.

Bill (No. 33), Respecting the Town of Irenton.

Bill (No. 45), Respecting the Town of Toronto Junction.

158 12TH JANUARY. 1898

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had directed him to report the several Bills with certain Amendments.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bills reported, be severally read the third time To-morrow.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton) presented to the House :

Return to an Order of the House of the twenty-second day of December last for a-
Return of copies of all papers, documents and correspondence between the Government,
or any Department thereof, and any other person, persons or corporations in any way
relating to the dealings of the Moore Lumber Company with the Crown Lands Depa fc-
ment or with the Government ; together with a full return of copies of the evidence
taken at the investigation of the said Company's dealings with the Government, or any
Department thereof, and of all other documents and correspondence in connection there-
with, as well as a copy of the report and finding of the Commissioners appointed to
investigate the same. (Sessional Papers No. 59.)

Mr. Davis presented to the House, by command of His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor : —

Report of the Agricultural and Experimental Union for the year 1897. (Sessional
Papers No. 6&)

Also — Report upon the Lunatic and Idiot Asylums of the Province for the y- ar
ending 30th September, 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 10.)

Also — Report upon the Common Gaols, Prisons and Reformatories of the Province
for the year ending 30th September, 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 11.)

Also — Report upon the Houses of Refuge, Orphan and Magdalen Asylums aided by
the Province for the year ending 30th September, 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 12.)

Also — Report upon the Hospitals of the Province for the year ending 30th Septem-
ber, 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 13.)

Also — Report of the Inspector of Division Courts for the year 1897. (Sessional
Papers No. 6.)

Also — Report of the working of the Tavern and Shop Licenses Acts for the j ear
1897. (Sessional Papers No. 7.)

Also — Report of the Commissioner of Public Works for the year 1897. (Sessional
Papers No. 8.)

Also — Report of the Inspector of Legal Offices for the year 1897. (Sessional Papers
No. 28.

Also — Report of the Registrar-General for the year 1896. (Sessional Papers No. 29.)
Also — Report of the Bureau of Mines for the year 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 33.}

61 Vic. 12TH AND 13TH JANUARY. 159*

Also — Report of the Secretary and Registrar of the Province for the year 1897.
(Sessional Papers No, 56.}

Also — Return of all Fees and Emoluments received by the Registrars of Deeds of
the Province for the year 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 57.)

Also — Documents re the Manufacture, in Canada, of Pine Timber cut on the Crown
Domain. (Sessional Papers No. 58.)

Also — Return to an Order of the House of the twenty-accord day of December last
for a Return of copies of papers, documents and all correspondence between any member
or officer of the Government and any other person or persons in reference to Lot No. 13,
Concession 3, Township of Stisted, and that the Return be brought down during the
present Session. (Sessional Papers No. 58.)

Also — Return to an Order of the House of the twenty -ninth day of December last
for a return of copies of all correspondence between the Commissioner of Crown Lands, or
any official of the Department, and any person or persons in reference to the cutting of
timber under license or trespass in the tract of land known as " Coffin " Addition. (Ses-
sional Papers No. 54-)

Also — Return to an Order of the House of the sixth day of January instant for a
Return shewing all payments made to Captain John Sullivan, an employe of the Govern-
ment since January 1st, 1897, and shewing time list since that date, where he was
employed and amount received since that time, Such Return to state if paid by month,
year, fees or day wages. (Sessional Papers No. 55.)

The House then adjourned at 12 midnight.

Thursday, 13th January, 1898.

11 O'CLOCK A.M.
PRAYERS.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table :—

By Mr. Davis, the Petition of Enterprise Division S. 0. T., No. 259.
By Mr. Carnegie, the Petition of the Township Council of Verulam.

By Mr. Gamey, the Petition of the East Grey D. D. S. O. T.; also, the Petition of the
St. John's Methodist Church ; also, the Petition of the Thornbury W. C. T. U.

By Mr. Magwood, the Petition of J. S. Johnson and others of Stratford.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the Berlin W. 0. T. U., praying certain amendments to the Liquor License Law,
sting the power of electors to further limit the hours of sale of liquor where license
force.

160 13TH JANUARY. 1898

Of the Western W. C. T. U., Toronto ; also, of the Rev ]. John Crawford and others ;
also, of St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church, Sault Ste. Marie ; aLo, of the Central Metho-
dist Ohurch Epworth League; also, of George J. Bishop and others, all of Toronto,
severally praying certain amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the transaction
of business on the Lord's Day.

The following Bills were severally read the third time and passed : —
Bill (No. 23), Respecting By-law No. 205 of the Town of Rat Portage.

Bill (No. 22), To incorporate the Presbyterian Ladies' College, Ottawa.
Bill (No. 82), Respecting Gaols.

Bill (No. 102), To amend the Act respecting the Association of Ontario Lwd .Sur-
veyors.

Bill (No. 42), Respecting the Cataract Power Company of Hamilton (Limit d.)
Bill (No. 17), Respecting the Estate of the late Richard Stubbs.
Bill (No. 93), Further to facilitate the purchase of Toll Roads by Municipalities.
Bill (No. 103), Respecting the investment of Court Funds.

Bill (No. 21), Respecting the Synod of the Diocese of Niagara.
On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. Ross,

Resolved, That This House will, To-day, resolve itself into a Committee to consider
the following Resolutions : —

That there be paid out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of the Province to the
Chairman of any Revising Board of Manhood Suffrage Registrars other than for a ( 'ity,
in any year when an election is held for the Legislative Assembly in the Elector U Dis-
trict of which the municipality forms a part, the sum of five dollars for his services under
the Manhood Suffrage Act.

On motion of Mr. Harcourt, seconded by Mr. Dryden,

Resolved, That this House will, To day, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole
to consider the following Resolutions : —

That there shall be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund the sum of $35,000
towards the construction of an International Railway Bridge across the River St. Law-
rence at or near Cornwall on the line of the Ottawa and New York Railway : Provided
that aid be granted also, by the Government of Canada. And the said grant shall be
subject to any conditions that the Lieutenant- Governor in Council may appoint or
approve, and shall be paid on completion of the Bridge.

That all the provisions of section 2 of chapter 35 of the Act passed in the 52nd year
of Her Majesty's reign, respecting the option of substituting half yearly payments for
forty years in lieu of a cash payment, and all the conditions provided by section 3 of the
said Act shall apply to the said grants.

61 Vic. 13TH JANUARY. 161

That so much of the said subsidy as is not earned within five years from the time
of the passing of the Act granting the same, shall lapse and revert to the Con-
solidated Revenue Fund of the Province.

The House, according to Order, again resolved itself into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved^ That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the
following sums : —

91. To defray the expenses of Civil Government $1,560 00

92. To defray the expenses of Administration of Justice 1,850 00

93. To defray the expenses of Education, Miscellaneous 700 00

94. To defray the expenses of Public Institutions Maintenance 250 00

96. To defray the expenses of Hospitals and Charities 3,437 00

97. To defray the expenses of Repairs and Maintenance 2,070 00

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had come to several Resolutions ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for
leave to sit again.

Ordered, That the Report be received To-day.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-day.

Mr. Davis presented to the House, by command of His Honour the Lieu tenant-
Governor : —

Report of the Commissioner of Crown Lands for the year 1897. (Sessional Papers
No. 4.)

Also— Report of work under the Children's Protection Act for the year 1897. (Ses-
sional Papers No. 16.)

Also — Special Report on the Immigration of British Children. (Sessional Papers
No. 60.)

The House then adjourned at 1 p.m.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the table : —
By Mr. McCallum, the Petition of Warwick Shield Lodge, No. 11, I.O.G.T.
By Mr. Hobbs, the Petition of the London Christian Citizenship Union, and others.

The Attorney-General, from the Standing Committee on Municipal Law, presented
their Second Report, which was read as follows : —

The Committee have carefully considered Bills Nos. 49, 50, 62, 65, 67, 69, 74, 88 and
89, being Acts to amend the Municipal Act, and report that it has embodied such
11 J.

162 13TH JANUARY. 189

portions thereof as the Committee has approved of in an Act, intituled " The Municipal
Amendment Act, 1898."

The Attorney-General, from the Standing Committee on Municipal Law, presented
their Third Report, which was read as follows : —

The Committee has carefully considered Bill No. 48, An Act to amend The Assess-
ment Act, and report the same with amendments as " Th3 Assessment Amendment A.ct,
1898."

The following Bills were severally introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 110), intituled "The Municipal Amendment Act, 1898." — The Attorney-
•General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

Bill (No. Ill), intituled " The Assessment Amendment Act, 1898." — The Attorney-
Oeteral.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), from the Standing Committee on Legal Bills, presented their
report, which was read as follows : —

The Committee have carefully considered

Bill (No. 68), " An Act to amend the Act respecting Voters' Lists," and

Bill (No. 91), "An Act to amend the Woodman's Lien for Wages Act," and have
made certain amendments thereto, respectively.

The Committee have also considered

Bill (No. 99), " An Act respecting Cemeteries,"

Bill (No. 81), " An Act to amend the Agriculture and Arts Act," and

Bill (No. 105), " An Act respecting Roads in Unincorporated Townships," and
report the same without amendment.

The following Bills were severally read the third time and passed : —

Bill (No. 20), Respecting the Railway Debenture Debt of the Township of Amabel

Bill (No. 12), To incorporate the Smith's Falls, Rideau and Southern Railway
Company.

The House, according to Order, again resolved itsel'f into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee.}

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the follow-
ing sums : —

95. To defray the expenses of Agriculture $ 7,500 00

61 Vic. 13TH JANUARY. 163

98. To defray the expenses of Public Buildings , 56,238 01

•99. To defray the expenses of Public Works 23,000 00

100. To defray the expenses of Colonization Roads 15,050 00

101. To defray the expenses of charges on Crown Lands 12,700 00

102. To defray the expenses of Refunds 3,326 82

103. To defray the expenses of Miscellaneous 99,175 00

Mr. Speaker resumed the Ohair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had come to several Resolutions ; also, That the Committee had directed him to abk for
leave to sit again.

Ordered^ That the Report be received To-day.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-day.

The Order of the Day for the House to resolved itself into a Committee to consider
certain proposed Resolutions respecting Railway Aid, having been read,

The Attorney-General acquainted the House that His Honour the Lieutenant-Gover-
nor, having been informed of the subject matter of the proposed Resolutions, recommends
them to the consideration of the House.

The House then resolved itself into the Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund to the under-
mentioned railway companies for the construction of the portions of railways hereinafter
mentioned, the sums following, that is to say : —

(1) To the Ontario and Rainy River Railway, from a point at the westerly end
of the 165 miles heretofore aided to a point at or near Fort Francis, a distance not
exceeding 40 miles, a cash subsidy of $3,000 a mile — $120,000.

(2) To the Pembroke Southern Railway, between Pembroke and Golden Lake, from
a point in the north-east part of the Township of Alice to the north-eastern boundary
of the said Township, a distance of about 3J miles, a cash subsidy of $3,000 a mile—
$10,000.

(3) To the Irondale, Bancroft and Ottawa Railway, from a point 45 miles from Iron-
dale at the end of the portion of the railway to which aid was granted in 1896, and
thence easterly for a distance of 10 miles, a cash subsidy of $3,000 a mile— $30,000.

(4) (Re-vote.) To the Bay of Quinte Railway (formerly the Kingston, Napanee and
Western Railway), for such extension or branches of or additions to its projected and
authorized line of railway northerly of the Village of Tweed as will not exceed thirty
miles in all, and will enable the said company to connect its existing line of railway

164 13TH JANUARY. 1898

with the iron ore deposits or other mineral lands lying northward of the said Village of
Tweed, in renewal of the amount granted to the said Kingston, Napanee and Western Rail-
way in the year 1893, a cash subsidy of $3,000 a mile— $90,000.

(5) To the James' Bay Railway, to aid in the construction of ninety miles of the
said railway from Parry Sound to a point at or near Sudbury, $3,000 a mile for a dis-
tance not exceeding forty miles ($120,000), and the unearned subsidy of $3,000 a mile
for a distance not exceeding fifty miles which was granted to the Nipissing and James*
Bay Railway in 1889, which said unearned subsidy is hereby transferred to the James*
Bay Railway. (New vote, $120,000 ; transferred from other road, $150,000)— $270,000.

2. That all the provisions of section 2 of chapter 35 of the Act passed in the 52nd
year of Her Majesty's reign, respecting the option of substituting half yearly payments
for forty years in lieu of a cash payment, and all the conditions provided by section 3 of
the said Act shall apply to the said grant.

3. That so much of the subsidies granted to each of the said railways as is not earned
within five years from the time of the passing of the Act granting the same, shall lapse
and revert to the Consolidated Revenue Fund of the Province.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Ohair, and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had
come to certain resolutions.

Ordered, That the Report be now received.

Mr. Stratton reported the Resolutions as follows : —

Resolved, That there be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund to the
undermentioned railway companies for the construction of the portions of railways
hereinafter mentioned, the sums following, that is to say : —

(1) To the Ontario and Rainy River Railway, from a point at the westerly
end of the 165 miles heretofore aided to a point at or near Fort Francis, a distance
not exceeding 40 miles, a cash subsidy of $3,000 a mile— $120,000.

(4) (Re- vote.) To the Bay of Quinte Railway (formerly the Kingston, Napznee and
Western Railway), for such extension or branches of or additions to its projected and
authorized line of railway northerly of the Village of Tweed as will not exceed thirty
miles in all, and will enable the said company to connect its existing line of railway

61 Vic, 13TH JANUARY. 165

with the iron ore deposits or other mineral lands lying northward of the said Village of
Tweed, in renewal of the amount granted to the said Kingston, Napanee and Western
Railway in the year 1893, a cash subsidy of $3,000 a mile — $90,00u.

(5) To the James' Bay Railway, to aid in the construction of ninety miles of the
paid railway from Parry Sound to a point at or near Sudbury, $3,000 a mile for a dis-
tance not exceeding forty miles ($120,000), and the unearned subsidy of $3,000 a mile
for a distance not exceeding fifty miles which was granted to the Nipissing and James1
Bay Railway in 1889, which said unearned subsidy is hereby transferred to the James'
Bay Railway. (N-ew vote, $120,000 ; transferred from other road, $150,000)— $270,000.

3. That so much of the subsidies granted to each of the said railways as is not earned
within five years from the time of the passing of the Act granting the same, shall lapse
and revert to the Consolidated Revenue Fund of the Province.

The Resolutions, having been read the second time, were agreed to, and referred to
the Committee of the Whole House on Bill (No. 112), Respecting Aid to certain Rail-
ways.

The Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Committee to consider a
certain proposed Resolution respecting the remuneration to the Chairman of any Revising
Board of Manhood Suffrage Registrars, other than for a city, having bee a read,

The Attorney-General acquainted the House that His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor, having been informed of the subject matter of the proposed Resolution, recom
mends it to the consideration of the House.

The House then resolved itself into the Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be paid out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of the Province
to the Chairman of any Revising Board of Manhood Suffrage Registrars other than for a
City, in any year when an election is held for the Legislative Assembly in the Electoral
District of which the municipality forms a part, the sum of five dollars for his services
under the Manhood Suffrage Registration Act.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair, and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had
come to a Resolution.

Ordered, That the Report be now received.

166 13TH JANUARY. 1898

Mr. Stratton reported the Resolution aa follows : —

Resolved, That there be paid out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of the Province
to the Chairman of any Revising Board of Manhood Suffrage Registrars, other than for a
city, in any year when an election is held for the Legislative Assembly in the Electoral
District of which the municipality forms a part, the sum of five dollars for his services
under the Manhood Suffrage Registration Act.

The Resolution, having been read the second time, was agreed to, and referred to the
Committee of the Whole House on Bill (No. 79), To amend the Manhood Suffrage Regis-
tration Act.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 79), To
amend the Manhood Suffrage Registration Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr.
Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed
him to report the Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 60), Respecting the
Manufacture of Pine cut on the Crown Domain, and, after some time spent therein, Mr.
Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee bad directed
him to report the Bill without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time at the next sitting of the House To-
day.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill No. (106), To amend the
Timber Slide Companies' Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed
the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, that the Committee had directed him to report the
Bill without any amendment.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time at the next sitting of the House To-
day.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (No. 70), Relating to Judgment
Summonses and Other Matters having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Committee of the Whole, with instructions to amend the same.

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committee; and, after some time
spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Com-
mittee had amended the Bill as directed.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

61 Vic. 13TH JANUARY. 167

The House resolved itself into a Oommittee to consider Bill (No. 94), To amend the
Municipal Waterworks Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed
the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Oommittee had directed him to report
the Eill without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time at the next sitting of the House To-
day.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 104), To provide
for the Garnishment of the Salaries of Civil Servants, and, after some time spent therein,.
Mr. Speaker resumed the Ohair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had
directed him to report the Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.

The Bill was then read the third time, and passed.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (No. 32), To confirm By-law No,
479 of the Town of Ingersoll having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Oommittee of the Whole, with instructions to amend the same.

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Oommittee ; and, after some time
spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Charlton reported, That the
Committees had amended the Bill as directed.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.

The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

The following Bills were severally read the third time and passed :—
Bill (No. 11), Eespecting certain By-laws concerning Drainage in the Townships of
Grey, Elma and McKillop,

Bill (No. 33), Respecting the Town of Trenton.

The Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Oommittee to consider
certain proposed Resolutions respecting the construction of an International Railway
Bridge across the River St. Lawrence at or near Cornwall, having been read,

The Attorney-General acquainted the House that His Honour the Lieutenant-Gover-
nor, having been informed of the subject matter of the proposed Resolutions recommends
them to the consideration of the House.

The House then resolved itself into the Committee.

168 13TH JANUARY. 1898

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there shall be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund the
sum of $35,000 towards the construction of an International Railway Bridge across the
River »%. Lawrence at or near Cornwall on the line of the Ottawa and New York Rail-
way : Provided that aid be granted also by the Government of Canada. And the said
grant shall be subject to any conditions that the Lieutenant-Governor in Council may
appoint or approve, and shall be paid on completion of the Bridge.

That all the provisions of section 2 of chapter 35 of the Act passed in the 52nd
year of Her Majesty's reign, respecting the option of substituting half yearly payments
for forty years in lieu of a cash payment, and all the conditions provided by section 3 of
the said Act shall apply, to the said grants.

That so much of the said subsidy as is not earned within five years from the time of the
passing of the Act granting the same, shall lapse and revert to the Consolidated Revenue
Fund of the Province.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had come to certain Resolutions.

Ordered, That the Report be now received.

Mr. Stratton reported the Resolutions as follows : —

Resolved, That there shall be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund the
flum of $35,000 towards the construction of an International Railway Bridge across the
River St Lawrence at or near Cornwall on the line of the Ottawa and New York Rail-
way : Provided that aid be granted also by the Government of Canada. And the said
grant shall be subject to any conditions that the Lieutenant-Governor in Council may
appoint or approve, and shall be paid on completion of the Bridge.

That all the provisions of section 2 of chapter 35 of the Act passed in the. 52nd
year of Her Majesty's reign, respecting the option of substituting half yearly payments
for forty years in lieu of a cash payment, and all the conditions provided by section 3 of
the said Act shall apply to the said grants.

That so much of the said subsidy as is not earned within five years from the time of
the passing of the Act granting the same, shall lapse and reverb to the Consolidated
Revenue Fund of the Province.

The Resolutions, having been read the second time, were agreed to, and referred to the
Committee of the Whole House on Bill (No. 112), Respecting Aid to certain Railways.

The Order of the Day for the second reading of Bill (No. 66), Respecting Coroners,
having been read,

Ordered^ That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill ba withdrawn.

61 Vic. 13iH JANUARY. 169

The following Bills were severally read the second time : —
Bill (No. 100), To amend the Municipal Act.
Referred to the Legal Committee.

Bill (No. 109), To amend the County Crown Attorneys Act.
Referred to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

The following Bill was introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 112 , intituled " An Act respecting Aid to certain Railways." — Mr. Har-
court.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time To-morrow.

The House resolved itself into a Oommittee to consider Bill (No. 107), To amend
the High Schools Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ;
and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Oommittee had directed him to report the Bill with
certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time To-morrow.

Mr. Davis presented to the House, by command of His Honour the Lieutenant-
Oovernor : —

Report of the Department of Immigration for the year 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 5.)

Also— Account of the Official Guardian ad litem for the year 1897. (Sessional
Papers No. 61.)

Also — Return to an Order of the House of the thirty-first day of March, 1897, for
a Return shewing how many acres of land are contained in the " Farm Proper " at the
Ontario Agricultural College, and how many horses, cattle, sheep and pigs were kept on
the farm in the year 1896. Shewing as well, if the farm produced sufficient food or
fodder to maintain the stock for the whole year. And shewing how much it cost, over
and above what was raised on the farm, to maintain the stock for the year. (Sessional
Papers No. 62 )

Also — Return to an Order of the House of the eighth day of March, 1897, for a
Return shewing the business done during each of the years 1892, 1893, 1894, 1895 and
1896 in the following Courts, in this Province, namely : —

1. The High Court of Justice : 1. The number of writs issued out of the High
Court of Justice in each of the above years. 2. The number of Records entered for
trial in each of the said years. 3. The number of cases set down for appeal to the
Divisional Courts of the High Court in each of the above years. 4 The number of
cases set down for appeal to the Court of Appeal for each of the above years. 5. The
number of cases appealed to the Supreme Court at Ottawa for each of the above years.

170 13TH AND 14iH JANUARY. 1898

2. The County Courts : 1. The number of writs issued out of the County Courts
of the Counties of the Province in each of the above years. 2. The number of Eecords
entered for trial in the County Courts of this Province in each of the above yearn,
3. The number of County Court cases set down for appeal from the said County Courts
to the Court of Appeal in each of the above years.

3. The Division Courts : 1. The number of writs issued in the Division Courts
of this Province in each of the said years. 2. The number of cases tried in the Courts
in each of the said years. 3. The number of appeals taken from the Division Courts, to
a higher Court, in each of the above years. 4. The number of Judgments by default
entered during each of the above years, in the Division Courts, (Sessional Papers
No. 63.)

The House then adjourned at 9 p.m.

Friday, 14th January, 1898.

11 O'CLOCK A.M..

The following Petitions were severally brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Truax, the Petition of William M. Duthie and others of Lucknow \ also, the
Petition of Rock of Friendship Lodge No. 40, I. 0. G. T., Westford.

The following Petitions were read and received : —

Of the County Council of Ontario, praying certain amendments to the Jurors' Act,
respecting the Selection of Jurors.

Of Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, Brockville, No. 118, praying certain
amendments to the Lord's Day Act, respecting the transaction of business on the Lord's
Day.

Mr. Stratton, from the Standing Committee on Printing presented their Third Re-
port, which was read as follows : —

The Committee recommend that the following documents be printed : —
Report of the Ontario Agricultural College. (Sessional Papers No. 17.)
Report of the Fruit Growers' Association. (Sessional Papers No. 18.)

61 Vic. 14TH JANUARY. 171

Report of the Fruit Experiment Station. (Sessional Papers No. 19.)

Report of the Entomological Society. (Sessional Papers No. 20.)

Report of the Beekeepers' Association. (Sessional Papers No. 21.)

Report of the Poultry Association. (Sessional Papers No. 22.)

Report of the Instructor in Road-making. (Sessional Papers No. 23.)

Report of the Butter and Cheese Association. (Sessional Papers No. 24.)

Report of the Live Stock Association. (Sessional Papers No. 25 )

Report of the Superintendent of Farmers' Institutes. (Sessional Paper* No. 26.}

Report of the Inspectors of Factories. (Sessional Papers No. 27.)

Report of the Game and Fish Commissioners. (Sessional Papers No. 30.)

Report of the Bureau of Industries. (Sessional Papers No. 32.)

Report of the Provincial Board of Health. (Sessional Papers No. 35.}

Report of the Registrar of Loan Associations. (Sessional Papers No. 86.}

Report of the Superintendent of Spraying. (Sessional Papers No. 49.)

Public Accounts for the Province of Ontario ending 31st December, 1897. (Sessional
Papers No. 2.)

Report of the Agricultural and Experimental Union. (Sessional Papers No. 52.)
Report of the Clerk of Forestry for Ontario, (Sessional Papers No 34 )
Report of the Commissioner of Public Works. (Sessional Papers No. 8 )
Report on Tavern and Shop Licenses Acts. (Sessional Papers No. 7. )
Report upon Prisons and Public Charities. (Sessional Papers No. 10.)

Report relating to registration of Births, Marriages and Deaths. (Sessional Papers
No. 29 )

Report upon Common Gaols, Prisons and Reformatories. (Sessional Papers No. 11.}.

Re port upon Houses of Refuge and Orphan Asylums. (Sessional Papers No. 12.)

Report upon the Hospitals of Ontario. (Sessional Papers No. IS.)

Report of the Inspector of Legal Offices. (Sessional Papers No. 28 )

Report of the Bureau of Mines. (Sessional Papers No. 33.)

Report of the Inspector of Division Courts. (Sessional Papers No. 6.)

Return of the Secretary and Registrar. (Sessional Papers No. 56.)

172 14TH JANUARY. 1898

Return of Fees received by Registrars of Deeds. (Sessional Papers No. 57.)
Documents re Manufacture in Canada of Pine Timber. (Sessional Papers No. 58 )
Report of the Commissioner of Crown Lands. (Sessional Papers No. 4-)
Report of Work under Children's Protection Act. (Sessional Papers No. 16.)

Special Report upon the Immigration of British Children. (Sessional Papers
No. 60.)

Report of the Department of Immigration, 1897. (Sessional Papers No. 5.)

Report of the Commissioners on question of. Prices of School Books, Royalties, etc.
(Sessional Papers No. 64>)

Report of the Commissioners Queen Victoria Niagara Falls Park. (Sessional Papers

No. 81.)

The Committee recommend that the following documents be not printed : —

Return relating to Audit of accounts Township of Manvers. (Sessional Papers
No. 46.)

Return of correspondence re Mining Concessions. (Sessional Papers No. Jfl. )

Return of Agreement with Commissioners of Niagara Falls Park. (Sessional Papers
No. 48.)

Order in Council respecting the Shooting of Wild Ducks in the waters near Rondeau
Park. (Sessional Papers No. 50.)

Order in Council respecting sale of watches and jewellery in Algonquin Park.
(Sessional Papers No. 51.)

Return of Correspondence re Lot No. 13 in the Township of Stisted. (Sessional
Papers No. 53.)

Return of correspondence relating to cutting of timber on " Coffin " Addition.
(Sessional Papers No. 54>)

Return shewing payments made to Captain John Sullivan. (Sessional Papers
No. 55.)

Return relating to dealings with Moore Lumber Company. (Sessional Papers No. 59. )
Account of the Official Guardian ad litem. (Sessional Papers No. 61.)

Return shewing acres in Farm Proper at Agricultural Farm, Guelph. (Sessional
Papers No. 62.)

Return shewing business done in Courts of the Province. (Sessional Papers No. 68.)

61 Vic. 14TH JANUARY. 173

The Committee recommend that the following extra copies be printed : of Coloniza-
tion Pamphlet, " Ontario the Premier Province of Canada" 10,000 copies — Bulletin,
" Does it Pay to Spray," 28,000 copies— " Report of the Forestry Commission," 1,000
copies — " Report of the Clerk of Forestry," 3,000 copies.

Also 2,000 copies of the Report of Commissioners on the question of Prices of School
Books, Royalties, etc.

Resolved, That this House doth concur in the Third Report of the Committee on
Printing.

The following Bills were severally read the third time, and passed : —
Bill (No. 8), Respecting the Corporation of the Town of Midland.

Bill (No. 39), To confirm and Legalize a By-law of the Corporation of the Town of
Collingwood.

Bill (No. 45), Respecting the Town of Toronto Junction.

•

Bill (No. 94), To amend the Municipal Water Works Act.
Bill (No. 106), To amend the Timber Slide Companies Act.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (No. 29), Respecting Water
Works in the City of Windsor and amending the Acts relating to said Water Works,
having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Committee of the Whole, with instructions to amend the same.

Ordered^ That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.

The Bill was then read the third time, and passed.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 109), To amend
the County Crown Attorneys Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker
resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to
report the Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.

The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.

The Bill was then read the third time, and passed.

The following Bill was read the second time : —

Bill (No. 110), The Municipal Amendment Act, 1898.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House forthwith.

174 14TH JANUARY. 1898

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committee, and, after some time
spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the
Committee had directed him to report the Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.
The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.
Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time, and passed,

The following Bill was read the second time : —

Bill (No. Ill), The Assessment Amendment Act, 1898.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House forthwith.

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committee, and, after some time
'spent therein, M r. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the
Committee had directed him to report the Bill without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time, and passed.

The following Bill was read the second time : —
Bill (No. 112), Respecting Aid to certain Railways.

Referred to a Committee of the Whole House at the next Sittings of the House
Today.

The Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole
to consider Bill (No. 73), To secure the better observance of the Lord's Day, having
been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be withdrawn.

Mr. Davis presented to the House, by command of His Honour the Lieutenant-
Governor : —

Report of the Commissioners of Queen Victoria Niagara Falls Park for the year
1897. (Sessional Papers No. 81.)

Also — Report of the Commission appointed to enquire into the matter relative to the
price of School Books. (Sessional Papers No. 64* )

The House then adjourned at 1 p.m.

€1 Vic. 14TH JANUARY. 175

3 O'CLOCK P.M.

The following Petition was brought up and laid upon the Table : —

By Mr. Dryden, the Petition of the Columbus and Brooklin Presbyterian Ohurch.

Mr. Charlton, from the Standing Committee on Public Accounts presented their
Second Report, which was read. (Apdendix No. 1.)

On motion of Mr. Har court, seconded by Mr. Dry den,

Ordered, That the Accountant of this House do pay the full Sessional Indemnity to
Messieurs Bronson, Burt, Gamey, Harty, Loughrin, Conmee, Garrow, Craig, Robillard,
and Magwood, absent during the Session, or part thereof, from ill health or other require-
ments.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (No. 71), To amend the Election
Act having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Committee of the "Whole, with instructions to amend the same.

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Oommittee \ and, after some time
spent therein^ Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Com-
mittee had amended the Bill as directed.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (No. 53), Respecting Mining
Claims, having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Committee of the Whole, with instructions to amend the same.

The House accordingly resolved itselt into, the Committee ; and, after some time
spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Com-
mittee had amended the Bill as directed.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (No. 70), Relating to Judgment
Summonses and other matters, having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Oommittee of the Whole, with instructions to amend the same.

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committee ; and, after some time
spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Com-
mittee had amended the Bill as directed.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.

176 14TH JANUARY. 1898

Resolved, That the Bill do pass and be intituled " An Act relating to the Division
Courts."

The Order of the Day for the third reading, of Bill (No. 79), To amend the Manhood
Suffrage Registration Act, having been read,

Ordered, That the Order be discharged, and that the Bill be forthwith referred back
to a Committee of the Whole, with instructions to amend the same.

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committee ; and, after some time
spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Com-
mittee had amended the Bill as directed.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

The following Bills were severally read the third time and passed :—
Bill (No. 76), To amend the Ontario Companies Act.
Bill (No. 107), To amend the High Schools Act.

The following Bill was introduced and read the first time : —

Bill No. 113), intituled " An Act relating to certain Municipal Elections in l'898."—
The Attorney- General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the second time.

Ordered, That the Bill be now read the third time.
The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

The Order of the Day for the third reading of Bill (No. 60), Respecting the Manu-
facture of Pine cut on the Crown Domain, having been read,

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton) moved,

That the Bill be now read the third time.

Mr. Whitney moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Marter, That all the words of
the Motion, after the word " That " be omitted, and the following substituted : the Bill
be not now read the third time but be forthwith referred back to a Committee of the
Whole House with instructions to amend section One thereof so as to provide that
"The Manufacturing Condition mentioned therein shall apply to all existing Timber
Licenses except those mentioned in paragraph (5) of Schedule A to the said Bill."

61 Vic.

14TH JANUARY.

177

And the Amendment, having been put, was Io3t on the following division : —

YEAS.

Messieurs :

Beatty (Leeds),

Gurd,

Little,

Preston,

Beatty (Parry Sound), Haggerty,

Magwood

Reid (Addington),

Brower,

Hiscott,

Marter,

Ryerson,

Bush,

Kerns,

Matheson*

St. John,

Carnegie,

Kidd,

Meacham,

Whitney,

Crawford,

Langford,

Miscampbell,

Willoughby.—25.

Fallis,

NAYS.

Messieurs :

Auld,

Dana,

Haycock,

Moore,

Barr,

Davis,

Hobbs

Mutrie,

Baxter,

Dickenson,

Loughrin,

Q'Keefe,

Bennett,

Dryden,

Macnish,

Pardo,

Biggar,

Dynes,

McDonald,

Paton,

Burt,

Farwell,

McKay (Oxford),

Pattullo,

Campbell,

Ferguson,

McKay ( Victoria),

Richardson,

Carpenter,

Field,

McKee,

Robertson,

Caven,

Flatt,

McLaren,

Robillard,

Chappie,

Garrow,

McLean,

Ross,

Charlton,

German,

McNaughton,

Shore,

Cleland,

Gibson (Hamilton), McNeill,

Stratton,

Conmee,

Gibson (Huron),

McNicol,

Taylor,

Craig,

Harcourt,

Me Pherson,

Truax,

Currie,

Hardy,

Middleton,

Tucker.— 60.

PAIRS.

Smith,

M^c Callu m

Early,

Reid (Durham^.

And the Motion for the third reading of the Bill having been again put, was carried,
and the Bill was then read the third time and passed.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 112), Respecting
Aid to certain Railways, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the
Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the
Bill with certain amendments.

Ordered, That the Amendments be taken into consideration forthwith.
The Amendments, having been read the second time, were agreed to.

Mr. Harcourt then moved,

That the Bill be now read the third time.
12 J.

178 14TH JANUARY. 1898

Mr. Carnegie moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Crawford^

That all the words of the Motion after the word "That" be omitted, and the fol-
lowing substituted : " the Bill be not now read the third time but be forthwith referred
"back to a Committee of the Whole House with instructions to amend the same by adding
to section 6 thereof the words " and also subject to the conditions that all employees
employed in the construction of the siid railways aided, shall be British subjects or resi-
dents of Canada for a period of one year."

Mr. German moved in amendment to the Amendment, seconded by Mr. Hobbs,

That all the words of the Amendment after the word "conditions" therein, be
omitted, and the following inserted in lieu tbeieof : " that no persons shall be employed in
the construction of the said roads who are subjects of any country which has an alien
labour law which practically excludes Canadians from employment upon Public Works
of such country, or on other works therein."

The amendment to the Amendment, having been put, was carried.

The Amendment, as amended, having been then put, was carried, and the House accord-
ingly resolved itself into the Committee, and, after some time spent therein, Mr Speaker
resum d the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had amended the
Bill as directed.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time, and passed.

The Order of the Day for the House to again resolve itself into the Committee of
Supply, having been read,
Mr. Harcourt moved,
That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair.

Mr. Kerns moved in amendment, seconded by Mr. Willoughby,

That all the words of the Motion after the word " That " be struck ou' , and the
following substituted : " This House regrets the large and steady increase in the Ordinary
Expenditure of the Province, greatly exceeding the increase in 'the revenue. And also
regrets that the expenditure of the Province has not been kept within the revenue. And
that the Province has to depend, to a very large extent, on Crown Lands receipts to
meet the Ordinary Expenditure."

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on a division.

The Original Motion, having been then put, was carried, and the House again
resolved itself into the Committee of Supply.

(In the Committee,)

Resolved^ That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the

following sum : —

•

104. To defray the expenses of Statute Consolidation $14,000 00

61 Vie. 14TH JANUARY.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair, and Mr. Straiten reported, That the Committee had
come to a Resolution ; also, That the Committee had directed him to ask for leave to sit
again.

Ordered, That the Report be received To-day.

Resolved, That the Committee have leave to sit again To-day.

The following Bill was read the second time : —

Bill (No. 108), Respecting Disputes concerned with the Purchase and Sale of
Cheese.

The Order of the Day, for the House to again resolve itself into the Committee of
Supply, having been read,

Mr. Harcourt moved,

That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair.

Mr. Whitney moved, in amendment, seconded by Mr. Matheson,
That all the words of the Motion after the word " That" be omitted and the follow-
ing inserted in lieu thereof : " this House observes with anxiety the evidences of dissatis-
faction in the public mind with the working and result of the educational system of the
Province, and is of opinion that a scheme should be devised by which the sphere of the
Public Schools may be remodeled, and where necessary, widened and enlarged with the
view of affording to those pupils, whose education begins and ends in such schools, such
further and increased educational advantages as may be practicable.

" This House is also of opinion that, among other desirable changes, there should be
created a consultative or advisory Council for the assistance of the Minister of Kducation,
on which Council should be represented all the teaching bodies in the Province.

" And this House is also of opinion that steps should be taken to reduce the price of
school books and thus lessen materially the burden now imposed upon and * orne by the
• people of the Province by reason of the large sums they are compelled to pay for such
books.1'

And the Amendment, having been put, was lost on a division.

The Main Motion, having been then put, was carried, and the House again resolved
itself into the Committee.

(In the Committee.}

Resolved, That there be granted to Her Majesty, for the services of 1898, the
following sum : —
105. To defray the expenses of Legislation, etc., for January, 1889 ...... $80,000 CO

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Ooumittee
had come to a Resolution. .

Ordered, That the Report be received forthwith.

14TH JANUARY. 1898

Mr. Stratton, from the Committee of Supply, reported the following farther
[Resolutions : —

91. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One thousand five hundred and sixty dollars
fee granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenaes of Oivil Government for the year
ending 31st December, 1898.

92. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding One thousand eight hundred and fifty dollars
be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Administration of Justice for the
year ending 31st December, 1898.

93. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Seven hundred dollars be granted to Her
Majesty to defray the expenses of Education, Miscellaneous, for the year ending 31st
December, 1898.

9 4. Resolved, Th it a sum not exceeding Two hundred and fifty dollars be granted to
Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Public Institutions Maintenance for the year
ending 31st December, 1898.

95. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Seven thousand five hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Agriculture for the year ending 31st
December, 1898.

96. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Three thousand four hundred and thirty-
seven dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Hospitals and Charities
for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

97. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Two thousand and seventy dollars be granted
to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Repairs and Maintenance for the year ending
31st December, 1898.

98. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Fifty-six thousand two hundred and thirty-
eight dollars and one cent be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Public
Buildings for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

99. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Twenty-three thousand dollars be granted to
Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Public Works for the year ending 31st Decem-
ber, 1898.

100. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Fifteen thousand and fifty dollars be granted
to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Colonization Roa,ds for the year ending 3 1st
Decfmber, 1898.

101. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Twelve thousand seven hundred dollars be
granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Charges on Crown Lands for the year
ending 31st December, 1898.

102. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Three thousand three hundred and twenty-
six d >llars and eighty-two cents be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of
Refunds for the year ending 31st December, 1898.

61 Vic. 14TH JANUARY. 181

103. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Ninety-nine thousand one hundred and
seventy-five dollars be granted to Her Majesty to defray Miscellaneous expenses for the
year ending 31st December, 1898.

104. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Fourteen thousand dollars be granted to
Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Statute Consolidation for the year ending 31st
December, 1898.

105. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding Eighty thousand dollars be granted to Her
Majesty to defray the expenses of Legislation, Public Institutions Maintenance and for
salaries of the Government and Civil Service for the month of January, 1899.

The several Resolutions having been again read, were concurred in.

The House, according to the Order, again resolved itself into the Committee of
Ways and Means.

(In the Committee.)

Resolved, That there be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of this
Provii ce a sum not exceeding Three millions seven hundred and seventeen thousand
eight hundred and twenty-four dollars and seventy-five cents ($3,717,824.75), to meet
the Supply to lhat extent granted to Her Majesty.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had come to a Resolution.

Ordered, That the Report be received forthwith.

Mr. Stratton, from the Committee on Ways and Means, reported a Resolution, which
was read as follows : —

Resolved, That there be granted out of the Oonsalidated Revenue Fund of this
Province a sum not exceeding Three millions seven hundred and seventeen thousand
eight hundred and twenty-four dollars and seventy-five cents ($3,717,824.75), to meet the
Supply to that extent granted to Her Majesty.

The Resolution, having been read the second time, was agreed to.

The following Bill was then introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 114), intituled, "An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of
money to defray the expenses of Civil Government for the year one thousand eight
hundred and ninety eight, and for other purposes therein mentioned." — Mr. Harcourt.

Ordered, That the Bill be now read the second time.

The Bill was then read the second time.

Ordered, That the Bill be now read the third time.

The Bill was then read the third time, and passed.

182 14TH JANUARY. 1898

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider the Bill (No. 41), to incor-
porate the Toronto and York Radial Railway Company, and, after some time spent
therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee
had directed him to report the Bill without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time, and passed.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 40), to amend the
Act of incorporation of the Toronto and Scarboro* Electric Railway, Light and Power
Company (Limited), and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ;
and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill with
certain amendments.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 68), To amend the
Act respecting Voters' Lists, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed
the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report
the Bill with certain amendments.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 91), To amend the
Woodman's Lien for Wages Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed
the Chair; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report
the Bill without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time, and passed.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (No. 99), Respecting
Cemeteries, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair; and
Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the Bill without
any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third timo, and passed.

61 Vic 14TH JANUARY. 183

The House resolved itself into a Committee to CDnsider Bill (No. 81), To amend the
Agriculture and Arts Act, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the
Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to report the
Bill without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time, and passed.

The House resolved itself into a Committee to consider Bill (N"o. 105), .Respecting
Roads in Unincorporated Townships, and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker
resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Stratton reported, That the Committee had directed him to
report the Bill without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.
The Bill was then read the third time, and passed.

Mr. German moved, seconded by Mr. Hobbs,

That in the opinion of this House the water power of the Niagara Falls and
Rapids, being one of the great natural resources of this Province, should be developed
and utilized for the benefit of the Canadian people, and that to this end the Govern-
ment should favour all bonafide enterprises proposing the developments of this power.

Also, that the action of the Government in refusing to grant the Canadian Niagara
Power Company an extension of its franchises meets with the approval of this House ;
and that no considerations of rental or revenue for Park purposes should restrain the
Government from holding thit Co;npany to a strict compliance with the terms of its
contract with the Park Commissioners, or from terminating the same for non-compliance
with its terms.

And a Debate, ensuing,

Ordered, That the Debate be adjourned.

On motion of Mr. Dickenson, seconded by Mr. O'Keefe,

Ordered, That there be laid before this House, a Return of copies of all corres-
pondence or reports in the possession of the Government respecting the operations of the
Engeldve Syndicate during the p*st season on the locations or concessions granted at
the beginning of the year.

Mr. Gibson (Hamilton), presented to the House:—

Return to an Order of the House of the Fourteenth day of January, instant, for a
Return of copies of all correspondence or reports in the possession of the Government
respecting the operations of the Eitgeldue Syndicate during the p*3t season on the
locations or concessions granted at the beginning of the year. (Sessional Papers No. 66.)

On motion of the Attorney-General, seconded by Mr. Ross,

Resolved, That when this House adjourns To-day, it do stand adjourned until
Monday next at Three of the Clock in the afternoon.

184 14TH AND 17TH JAUARY. 1898

Mr. Davis presented to the House : —

Return to an Order of the House of the twenty-fourth day of March, 1897, for a
Return shewing the cost of, or purchase money paid for the Ontario Agricultural College ;
acreage of the property, together with the amount of land now under cultivation ; expendi-
ture thereon, since its establishment, upon buildings, stock, fencing, drainage and all
other accounts. Together with receipts from students in fees, sale of stock, produce and
other sources. (Sessional Papers No. 65.)

The House then adjourned at 12 midnight.

Monday, January 17th, 1898.

3 O'CLOCK P.M.
PRAYERS.

Mr. Straiten, from the Standing Committee on Printing presented their Fourth
Report, which was read as follows : —

The Committee recommend that the following documents be printed : —
Return showing money paid for the Ontario Agricultural Farm and expenditure
thereon since its establishment. (Sessional Papers No. 65.)

Return of correspondence respecting the Engledue Syndicate. (Sessional Papers
No. 66.)

Resolved, That this House doth concur in the Fourth Report of the Committee on
Printing.

The following Bill was introduced and read the first time : —

Bill (No. 115), intituled " An Act respecting the sale of Patent and other Medicines,
and of Alcohol for the purposes of Arts and Manufactures." — The Attorney-General.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the second time forthwith.

The Bill was then read the second time and referred forthwith to a Committee of
the Whole House.

The House accordingly resolved itself into the Committee, and, after some time spent
therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair ; and Mr. Charlton reported, That the Committee
had directed him to report the Bill without any amendment.

Ordered, That the Bill be read the third time forthwith.

The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

The House then adjourned during pleasure.

61 Vic. I?TH JANUARY. 185

3.30 O'CLOCK P.M.

His Honour the Honourable Sir Oliver Mowat, G.C.M.G., Member of our Privy
Council of Canada, etc., etc,, the Lieutenant-Governor proceeded in State to the Chamber
of the Legislative Assembly and took his seat on the Throne.

The Clerk Assistant then read the titles of the Bills that had been passed, severally as
follows : —

2. An Act respecting the Revised Statutes of Ontario, 1897.

3. An Act to amend the Act respecting Voters' Lists.

4. An Act to amend the Manhood Suffrage Registration Act.

5. An Act to amend the Election Act.

6. An Act to amend the Act respecting the Public Service of Ontario.

7. An Act to provide for the Garnishment of the Salaries of Civil Servants.

8. An Act respecting Water Powers.

9. An Act respecting the Manufacture of Pine cut on the Crown Domain.

10. An Act to establish Forest Reserves.

11. An Act respecting Mining Claims.

1 2. An Act to amend the Agriculture and Arts Act.
18. An Act respecting the Investment of Court Funds.

14. An Act to amend the Surrogate Courts Act.

15. An Act relating to the Division Courts.

16. An Act to amend the County Crown Attorney's Act.

17. An Act to amend the Woodman's Lien for Wages Act.

18. An Act to amend the Act respecting the Association of Ontario Land Surveyors.

19. An Act to amend the Ontario Companies' Act.

20. An Act to amend the Timber Slide Companies' Act.

21. An Act respecting Cemeteries.

22. An Act respecting Aid to Certain Railways.

23. The Municipal Amendment Act, 1898.

24. An Act relating to Certain Municipal Elections in 1898.

25. The Assessment Amendment Act, 1898.
13 J.

186 I?TH JANUARY. 1898

26. An Act respecting Roads in Unincorporated Townships.

27. An Act respecting Public Libraries in Police Villages.

28. An Act to amend the Municipal Water Works Act.

29. An Act to further facilitate the purchase of Toll Roads by Municipalities.

30. An Act respecting the sale of Patent and other Medicines, and of Alcohol for
the purposes of Arts and Manufactures.

31. An Act to prevent Gambling and Games of Chance at Agricultural Exhibitions.

32. An Act to make further provision respecting Maternity Boarding Houses, and
the Protection of Infant Children.

33. An Act to prevent the spread of the San Jose Scale.

34. An Act to amend the High Schools Act.

35. An Act to amend Chapter 298, R. S. 0. 1897, entitled, " An Act respecting the
University of Toronto and University College, and the Federation thereof with other
Universities and Colleges."

36. An Act respecting Gaols.

37. An Act respecting the Railway Debenture Debt of the Township of Amabel.

38. An Act to confirm By-law No. 586 of the Town of Berlin.

39. An Act respecting the Consolidated Debt of the Town of Cobourg and for other
purpose?.

40. An Act to confirm and legalize a By-law of the Town of Collingwood.

41. An Act respecting the Town of Goderich.

42. An Act respecting certain By laws concerning Drainage in the Townships of
Grey, Elma and McKillop.

43. An Act relating to the City Hospital of Hamilton.

44. An Act respecting the Village of Huntsville.

45. An Act to confirm By-law No. 479 of the Town rf Ing er soil.

46. An Act respecting the City of London.

47. An Act respecting the Corporation of the Town of Midland.

48. An Act to consolidate the Floating Debt of the Town of North Bay.

49. An Act respecting the City of Ottawa.

50. An Act respecting By-law No. 205 of the Town of Rat Portage.

61 Vic. I?TH JANUARY. 1ST

51. An Act respecting the City of St. Thomas and the St. Thomas Street Railway
Company.

52. An Act to confirm a certain Agreement between the Grand Trunk Railway
Company of Canada, the St. Clair Tunnel Company, and the Town of Sarnia.

53. An Act respecting the County of Simcoe.

54. An Act respecting the City of Toronto.

55. An Act respecting the Town of Toronto Junction.

56. An Act respecting the Town of Trenton.

57. An Act respecting the Town of Walkerton.

58. An Act respecting Waterworks in the City of Windsor, and amending the Acts
relating to said Waterworks.

59. An Act respecting the Chatham City and Suburban Railway Company.

60. An Act respecting the Hamilton and Duudas Street Railway Company.

61. An Act respecting the Kingston, Portsmouth and Cataraqui Electric Railway
Company.

62. An Act respecting the Sandwich, Windsor and Amherstburg Railway Company.

63. An Act to incorporate the Smith'-p Falls, Rideau and Southern Railway Company.

64. An Act to amend the Act incorporating the Strathroy and Western Counties
Railway Company.

65. An Act to amend the Act of incorporation of the Toronto and Scarborough Elec-
tric Railway, Light and Power Company (Limited.)

66. An Act to incorporate the Toronto and York Radial Railway Company.

67. An Act to incorporate the Canadian Consolidated Copper and Nickel Company.

68. An Act respecting the Cataract Power Company of Hamilton (Limited.)

69. An Act to incorporate the Ottawa Stock Exchange.

70. An Act respecting the Shebandowan Mining Company and incorporating the
JFrue Shebandowan Mining Company (Limited.)

71. An Act respecting the Sydenham Glass Company of Wallaceburg (Limited.)

72. An Act respecting the Synod of the Diocese of Niagara.

73. An Act respecting the incorporated Synod of the Diocese of Ottawa.

74. An Act to incorporate the Presbyterian Ladies' College, Ottawa.

188 17TH JANUARY. 1898-

75. An Act respecting the Act incorporating the Sisters of Our Lady of Loretto, 20
Victoria, chapter 187.

76. An Act respecting the Sisters of St. Joseph for the Diocese of Toronto in Upper
Canada.

77. An Act to amend the Acts relating to Victoria University.

78. An Act to authorize the Royal College of Dental Surgeons to admit Lewis
Frederick Riqgs as a Student.

79. An Act respecting the estate of the late Richard Stubbs.

To these Bills the Royal Assent was announced by the Olerk of the Legislative
Assembly in the following words : —

" In Her Majesty's name, His Honour the Lieutenant-Go vernor doth assent to these
Bills."

The title of the following Bill was then read :—

80. An Act respecting the sale of Patent and other Medicines, and of Alcohol for
the purposes of Arts and Manufactures.

To this Bill the Olerk of the Legislative Assembly did say : —

His Honour the Lieutenant Governor doth withhold Her Majesty's assent to this
Bill, on advice of his Council, it being understood that the Legislative Assembly also
desires such withholdir-g of assent thereto, by reason of the Bill having been ascertained,
since the passing thereof, to cover, by its terms, cases not contemplated on the passing" of
the Bill.

Mr. Speaker then said : —
May it please Your Honour : —

We, Her Majesty's most dutiful and faithful subjects, the Legislative Assembly of
the Province of Ontario, in Session assembled, approach Your Honour at the close of our
labours with sentiments of unfeigned devotion and loyalty to Her Majesty's person and
Government, and humbly beg to present for Your Honour's acceptance a Bill intituled
" An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money to defray the expenses of
Civil Government for the year 1898, and for other purposes therein."

To this Bill the Royal Assent was announced by the Clerk of the Legislative Assem-
bly in the following words : —

<c His Honour the Lieutenant-Go vernor doth thank Her Majesty's dutiful and loyal
subjects, accept their benevolence and assent to this Bill in Her Majesty's name."

61 Vic. 17TH JANUARY. 189

His Honour was then pleased to deliver the following speech :—
Mr. Speaker and Gentlemen of the Legislative Assembly : —

In relieving you from further attendance upon your legislative duties, it affords me
pleasure to express my appreciation of the diligence and zeal with which you have applied
yourselves to public business during the session now brought to a close.

It is a source of satisfaction that the entire body of the public laws of the Province
has been again consolidated and revised, and that you have confirmed and approved the
work so faithfully performed by the Commissioners appointed for that purpose. The
new volumes of the statutes will, without doubt, prove to be of great convenience to the
public, and especially to the Bench, the Bar and the Magistracy.

I hope and trust that experience will prove the wisdom of the Bill passed for the
purpose of securing the manufacture of the pine products of our forests in our own coun-
try, and I cheerfully assent to it.

I have perused with interest the report of the Royal Commission on Reforestry, laid
before the Assembly during the session, and have been gratified to learn that several
inexpensive yet efficient methods for encouraging reforestry have been suggested, and I
trust that the Bill founded thereon which you have passed may greatly contribute to the
end which you have had in view.

I assent with pleasure to the important Bill having for its object the prevention of
the spread of the San Jose Scale, and trust that its effect will be to save our orchards
from the destruction with which they are just now threatened.

The Bills to amend the Election Law and the Manhood Suffrage Registration Act
will, I do not doubt, be found to contribute to the more efficient working of these laws.

The measures respecting gaols and the public service will, I trust, contribute to the
more economical administration of the affairs of the counties and of the Province, and I
readily assent to them.

The measures which you have adopted relating to the Municipal and Assessment
Laws, to Education, to Mining, to the Division Courts and the examination of Judgment
Debtors, and to Prevent Gambling at Agricultural Exhibitions will, I am satisfied, prove
to be advantageous to the public.

The appropriation made by you to aid railway enterprises will, I feel confident, con-
duce to the material progress and advancement of the country, and to the extension of
settlements in the newer parts of the Province.

I thank you for the liberal yet judicious appropriations made for the public service
for the present year.

At the close of this l*st session of the Eighth Parliament of the Province, I cannot
help congratulating you upon the wisdom and prudence which have guided your delibera-
tions during the several sessions of this legislative term — upon the many good and useful
14 J.

190 • 17TH JANUARY. 1898

laws which have been passed, upon the desire for economy in the administration of pub-
lic affairs which you have constantly manifested, and upon the loyalty and patriotism
which have characterized all your proceedings. I venture to hope that your successors
may prove not less zealous in these respects than you have been, and that they may show
as wise an appreciation of public duty, and as earnest a solicitude for the protection of
the great interests committed by the Constitution to the Provincial Legislature, as have
marked your course during the Parliamentary term now about to close.

The Commissioner of Crown Lands then said :

Mr. Speaker and Gentlemen of the Legislative Assembly : —

It is His Honour's will and pleasure that this Legislative Assembly be prorogued ;
and this Legislative Assembly is accordingly prorogued.

APPENDIX

No. 1.— REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.

15 J.

REPORT

OF THE

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

PROVINCE OF ONTARIO,

1897-8.

PRINTED BY ORDER OF

THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO.

TORONTO:

WABWIOK BRO'd & RUTTER, PRINTERS AND BOOKBINDERS, 68 AND 70 FRONT ST. WKS-P

1898.

REPORT

OP THE

COM MITT-TEE

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS,

1897-8.

To the Honourable the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Ontario ;

The Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts beg leave to present the fol-
lowing as their second

REPORT.

The Committee have had produced before them the following accounts and vouchers
in connection with the Public Accounts of the Province for the year 1897, which they
have carefully examined and considered, viz :

Fourteen accounts in connection with expenditure for Colonization Roads ;
Oertain accounts in relation to Algonquin Park ;

Accounts showing disbursements of the losal treasurer of the District of Nipissing in
connection with the Administration of Justice ;

All accounts in connection with the Experimental Farm Proper, the Experimental
Dairy and the Dairy School, Guelph. Also similar accounts in connection with the
Eastern and Western Dairy Schools ;

Certain accounts for supplies for the Asylum for the Insane at London, Toronto,
Mimico and Kingston.

The Committee have also carefully examined the accounts of the Inspector of
Prisons and Charities for travelling expenses for the years 1894, 1895 and 1896. The
Provincial Auditor was examined under oath with reference to certain of these accounts.

The Committee have also carefully examined all accounts relating to the construction
of the piggery at Humber Bay, and the purchase and sale of hogs in connection therewith,
during the years 1894, 1895, 1896 and 1897, Messieurs James Noxon, inspector of

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

prisons ; F. Williams, shipping clerk at Central Prison ; I. Warner, caretaker of piggery ;
Patrick McElroy, Robert Oster and Henry Oster, were examined under oatb in regard to
the accuracy of these accounts.

The Committee have also very carefully examined into the disposition of hogs at the
Humber piggery in July, 1896.

The following witnesses were examined under oath with respect to this matter, viz.t
Messieurs James NOXOD, inspector of prisons ; Professor Andrew Smith, V.S., Dominion
veterinary inspector ; Professor 0. H. Sweetapple, V,S.; R. Hunter, Government cattle
buyer ; W. T. Harris, wholesale butcher ; I. Warner, caretaker of piggery ; Charles
Moore, Fred. Newton and Wm. Newton, butchers ; and Frank Dunn, T. Smith, T.
Whitehead and Neil McKinnon. Mr. J. Featherston, M.P., was also examined in regard
to his experience with cholera in his own herd.

The Committee have held thirteen meetings during the present session. They
submit herewith the minutes of their proceedings, and the evidence given, as taken by »
stenographer.

All which is. respectfully submitted,

W. A. CHARLTON,

Chairman.
COMMITTEE ROOM,

January 14th, 1898.

MINUTES AND PROCEEDINGS

OP THE

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

WITH EVIDENCE AND STATEMENTS.

FOURTH SESSION - EIGHTH LEGISLATURE.

±80T-8.

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE ROOM,

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY,
TORONTO, Wednesday, December 22, 1897.

The Select Standing Committee to whom was referred the examination of the Public
Accounts of the Province, for the year 1897, and composed of the following members : —
The Attorney-General and Messieurs Auld, Charlton, Cleland, Conmee, Crawford, Davis,
Field, Garrow, German, Harcourt, Harty, Haycock, Kerns, Kidd, Loughrin, Macphersota,
McNicol, Macnish, Marter, Matheson, Meacham, Middleton, Stratton, St, John, Whit-
ney and Willoughby, met this day at 11 a.m. for organization and business.

Present :

Messieurs Auld, Oharlton, Cleland, Crawford, Davip, Field, Garrow, Harcourt.
Harty, Kerns, Loughrin, Macpherson, Macnish, Marter, Matheson, Middleton, Wil-
loughby, Stratton and St. John.— 19.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

On motion of Mr. Macnish, seconded by Mr. Marter, Mr. W. A. Charlton was ap-
pointed Chairman of the Committee.

Mr. Charlton in the Chair.

On motion o£ Mr. Matheson, seconded by Mr. Kerns, Ordered : That the following
accounts and vouchers relating to Colonization Roads expenditure in 1897 be laid before
the Commit cee :

M. Keech, page 345 $480 00

Wm. Miller, " " 370 00

Wm. Stewart, " " 480 00

Geo. Black, " " 200 00

J. Sullivan, " 342 46 37

Ed. Mellon, " " 57000

A. P. Wickware, " " 375 00

Lutterworth Road, " 345 280 00

Island Road, " 344 . ; 280 00

F. Austin, " 346 840 00

J. C. Fraser, " 345 503 66

Ryde Centre, " 347 380 00

Woodyatt Road, " 348 750 00

Draper, " 343 160 00

On motion of Mr. Macnish, seconded by Mr. Field, Ordered : That the following
accounts of supplies for London Asylum for 1897 be laid before the Committee :

Robinson, Little & Co., page 174 $2,962 24

On motion of Mr. Field, seconded by Mr. Macnish, Ordered : That the following
accounts of supplies for Toronto Asylum for 1897 be laid before the Committee :

J. W. Lang & Co., page 166 $1,588 44

J. McDonald & Co., " " 772 96

@n motion of Mr. Harcourt, seconded by Mr. Davis, Ordered:; That the Chairman

be instructed to ask the House to authorize this Committee to examine into such of the

accounts of the years 1894, 1895 and 1896 as relate to matters and accounts to be laid

before the Committee during its present session.

On motion of Mr. Matheson, seconded by Mr. Willoughby, Ordered : That the

accounts and vouchers of Dr. Chamberlain for travelling expenses for the years 1894,

1895, 1896 and 1897 be laid before this Committee.

On motion of Mr. Kerns, seconded by Mr. Matheson, Ordered : That the following

accounts for supplies for the Asylum for the Insane at Mimico for 1897 be laid before

this Committee :

Alexander & Anderson, page 189 $1,880 68

James Butler, " " 230 00

M. Doyle, " 190 621 00

H. P. Eckhardt & Co., " 191 1,104 79

Eby, Blain Co., " " 1,903 86

J. W. Lang & Co., " " 1,886 84

P. 0. Larkin & Co., " " 224 00

Pugsley, Dingman & Co., " 193 1,201 95

Wm. Ryan Co., " " 1,605 08

Steele, Briggs Co., " " , 196 84

On motion of Mr. Field, seconded by Mr. Macnish, Ordered : That the following
accounts for supplies for Asylum for the Insane at Mimico for 1897 be laid before the
Committee :

H. P. Eckhardt & Co., page 191 $1,104 79

Eby, Blain & Co., " " 1,903 86

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1S97-8

On motion of Mr. St. John, seconded by Mr. Marter, Ordered : That the following
accounts be laid before this Committee for 1897 :

Deepening well at piggery, page 402 $ 30 30

" » " " " 146 20

Ten months salary as caretaker " 403 416 60

together with all other accounts relating in any way to the construction of the Humber
piggery, for the years 1894, 1895, 1896 and 1897, and all other buildings, erections and
appurtenances in connection therewith, together with whatever may relate to the pur-
chase and sale of all animals kept therein or disposed of therefrom for the same period,
and that the same be laid on the table for examination, and that Mr. Noxon produce all
other accounts having any relation to the same.

On motion of Mr. Garrow, seconded by Mr. Macnish, Ordered : That Professor
Smith, Inspector Sweetapple, Wm. Harris, J. Warner, as well as the butcher at the
Central Prison, be summoned to give evidence in regard to the disposition of hogs at the
flumber piggery in July, 1896.

On motion of Mr. St. John, seconded by Mr. Marter, Ordered : That the following
persons be summoned to give evidence in respect to the disposition of hogs at the Hum-
ber piggery in July, 1896, viz : Fred Newton, William Newton, Frank Dunn, R. Hunter,
Tom Whitehead, Denny Sullivan, Neil McKinnon and Isaac Moore.

On motion of Mr. McPherson, seconded by Mr. Auld, Ordered : That all accounts
and vouchers relating to the Agricultural College Farm proper be laid before this
Committee.

Committee adjourned at 11.45 a.m. until to-morrow (Thureday) at 11 a.m.

COMMITTEE ROOM,

Thursday, Dec. 23, 1897.

Committee met at 11 a.m. pursuant to adjournment,

Present :
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

Messieurs Cleland, Crawford, Davis, Field, German, Harcourt, Kerns, Loughrin,
McPherson, McNicol, Macnish, Matheson, Willoughby.— 14.

On motion of Mr. Field, seconded by Mr. McNicol, Ordered : That the following
accounts for supplies for London Asylum for 1897 be laid before this Committee :

G. Leith, pagel71 ^'J1? 22

J. W. Craig, " 170

On motion of Mr. Matheson, seconded by Mr, Crawford, Ordered : That the accounts
of the Local Treasurer of the District of Nipissing in connection with the administration
of justice be laid before this Committee as follows :

December qr. 1896, page T5 $486 87

March « 1897, « "

June " " " "

September « " " " 42° 89

61 Victoria. . Appendix (No. 1.) 1899-8

On motion of Mr. Willoughby, seconded by Mr. Kerns, Ordered : That the following
accounts for salaries in connection with Algonquin Park for 1897, be laid before this
Committee :

J. Simpson, page 385 , $568 40

T. O. Leary, " " 409 00

S. Waters, " " 343 00

0. K. Grigg, " " 343 00

On motion of Mr. Kerne, seconded by Mr. Matheson, Ordered : That the following
accounts for supplies for Kingston Asylum for 1897, be laid before this Committee :

J. J. Behan, page 177 $12236

A. Chown & Co., " " 604 93

D. Cowper, " " *. 342 56

John Gilbert " 178 231 53

Hardy & Co., " " 307 58

W.RMcRae&Co., " 179 1,172 42

R. McFaul, « " 428 98

John Oster, " 180 343 59

James Redden, " " 1,734 22

Steacy <fe Steacy, " 181 , 1,502 10

A, Strachan, " " 369 07

Vanluven & Co., " " 504 05

The accounts of the Inspector of Prisons and Charities for the years 1894, 1895 and
1896 were produced and laid before the Committee.

Mr. Sproule, Provincial Auditor, was sworn and examined in regard to certain of
these accounts. See Index.

Committee adjourned at 12.15 p.m., until Tuesday next, the 28th instant, at 11 a.ru,

COMMITTEE ROOM,

Tuesday, Dec. 28, 1897.

Committee met pursuant to adjournment, at 11 a.m.

Present :
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

Messieurs Auld, Garrow, Harcourt, Kerne, Loughrin, McPherson, Marter, Matheson,
Willeughby, St. John. — 11.

The following accounts ordered by the Committee were laid on the table : Accounts
for expenditure on colonization roads ; accounts for supplies for the Asylums at London,
Toronto, Mimico and Kingston ; accounts for salaries of rangers at Algonquin Park.

On motion of Mr. St. John, seconded by Mr. Marter, Ordered : That Thomas Smith,
Pat McElroy, Henry Oster, Robert Oster, Edward Kearney, Edward Cahill and Robert
Jackson be summoned to give evidence before this Committee in regard to the H umber
piggery.

On motion of Mr. McPhersor, seconded by Mr. Auld, Ordered : That all accounts
relating to the Experimental Dairy and the Dairy School at Guelph and the Eastern and
Western Dairy Schools be laid betore this Committee.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

On motion of Mr. St. John, seconded by Mr. Marter, Ordered : That the accounts
of M. Mansfield for milk and supplies for Colonization Roads, 1896, 4th and 5th con.,
476-85, be laid before this Committee.

Committee adjourned at 12 20 p.m. until to-morrow at 10.30 a.m.

COMMITTEE ROOM,

Wednesday, Dec 29, 1897,
Committee met a1 10 30 a m. pursuant to adjournment.

Present :
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

M^ssi^urs Auld, Cleland, Crawford, Davis, Field, Garrow, German, Harcourt, Hay-
cock, Kerns, Kidd, Loughrin, McPherson, McNicol, Marter, Matheson, Meacham, Strat-
ton, St. John, Willoughby.— 21.

The following witnesses were in attendance : Prof. Andrew Smith, V. S., Prof. 0. H.
Sweetapple, V. S , Messrs Robert Oster, T. Whitehead, Henry Oster, P. McElroy, Thos.
Smith, Neil McKinnon, Charles Moore, Isaiah Warner, Fred Newton, Wm. Newton,
Frank Dunn, Edward Ktaney, R. Hunter, James Noxon.

A discussion having arisen in regard to the order of calling witness, re piggery
investigation, it was

Moved by Mr. St, John, seconded by Mr. Matheson, That Fred Newton he first
called to give evidence in relation to the matters of the Humber piggery.
The motion was declared lost on the following division :

Yeas — Messieurs Crawford, Haycock, Kerns, Kidd, Marter, Matheson, Meacham,
St. John, Willoughby.— 9.

Nays — Messieurs Auld, Oleland, Davis, Field, Garrow, German, Harcourt, Lough-
rin, McPherson, McNicol, Stratton. — 11.

Mr. James Noxon, Inspector of Prisons, was sworn and examined in regard to the
first appearance of cholera at the piggery and the measures taken in respect thereto. See
Index.

Mr. Fred Newton was next called and sworn. He had charge of killing and dress-
ing the good hogs. See Index.

Professor Andrew Smith, V.S., Dominion Veterinary Inspector, was then called
and sworn. He was called to inspect the herd at the inception of the disease, and upon
being satisfied, after thorough examination, that it was cholera, took charge of the herd
and gave instructions in respect to its disposition. See Index.

Committee adjourned at 12.45 p.m. until to-morrow at 10 a.m.

COMMITTEE ROOM,

Thursday, Dec. 30, 1897.
Committee met at 10 a.m. pursuant to adjournment.

Present :
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

Messieurs Auld, Oteland, Crawford, Davis, Field, Garrow, German, Harcourt, Harty,
Haycock, Kearris, Kidd, loughrin, MoPherson, McNicol, Macnish, Marter, Matheson,
Meacham, Middleton, Stratton, Sb. John, Willoughby.— 24.

01 Victoria. Appendix (No. L.) 1897-8

The following witnesses were in attendance : — Messrs. I. Warner, P. McElroy, R.
Oster, H. Oster, R. Jackson, Ed. Kearney, Cha^. Moore, Neil McKinnon, Fred Newton,
Wm. Newton, Thos. Whitehead, Frank Dunn, Thos. Smith, 0. H. Sweetapple, V.S.,
Prof Smith, V.S., W. T. Harris, R. Hunter and Jas. Noxon.

W. T. Harris, wholesale butcher, was called and sworn. He had purchased ninety-
seven dressed hogs from Mr. Hunter and inspected them at the cold storage room at
Central Prison, finding all hogs sound and free from disease. See Index.

Profossor Sweetapple, V.S., was next called and sworn. He had assisted Prof
Smith in the first inspection of the herd, and had also inspected the dressed hog at the
Central Prison cold storage. See Index.

R. Hunter, Government cattle buyer, was then called.

Mr. St. John objected to the calling of Mr. Hunter at this stage of the enquiry.

Mr. German moved, seconded by Mr. Loughrin : That the evidence of Mr. Hunter
be now taken.

Moved in amendment by Mr. St. John, seconded by Mr. Matheson : That Frank
Dunn be next called as a witness.

A vote was taken on the amendment.

Yeas — Messieurs Crawford, Kerns, Kidd. Marter, Matheson, Meacham, St. John,
Willoughby.— 8.

Nays — Messieurs Auld, Oleland, Davis, Field, Garrow, German, Harcourt, Harty,
Loughrin, McPherson, McNicol, Macnish, Middleton. — 13.

The original motion was declared carried, and Mr. Hunter was sworn and examined,,
See Index.

Committee adjourned at 12.45 p.m. until Wednesday, 5th June, 1898, at 10 a. m,

COMMITTEE ROOM,

Wednesday, Jan. 5, 1898.

Committee met at 10 a.m. pursuant to adjournment.

Present ;
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

Messieurs Auld, Cleland, Crawford, Davis, Garrow, German, Harcourt, Harty,
Haycock, Kerns, Kidd, McNicol, Macnish, Marter, Matheson, Meacham, Middleton,
Stratton, St. John, Willoughby.— 21.

All accounts relating to the piggery were laid on the table. Also certain accounts
for supplies for the Asylum for the Insane, Mimico, and also for the administration of
justice in the District of Nipissing.

The following witnesses were in attendance : Messrs. I. Warner, P. McElroy, R.
Oster, H. Oster, Fred. Newton, Wm. Newton, R. Hunter, Ed. Kearney, Frank Dunn,
Neil McKinnon, Thos. Smith, Thos. Whitehead, R. Jackson, C. Moore.

On motion of Mr. Matheson, seconded by Mr. Marter, Ordered : That there be laid
before this Committee a statement of the amounts over $50 received as revenue by the
Central Prison Industries during 1897, and the parties or industries from which the
same were received.

W. T. Harris was recalled and further examined in regard to his purchase of hoge
from Central Prison storage. See Index.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Fred. Newton was recalled and cross-examined in regard to the killing of hogs. See
Index.

Frank Dunn was called and sworn. He gave evidence in regard to killing and
dressing the hogs. See Index.

On motion of Mr. Macnish, seconded by Mr. McNicol, Ordered : That Thomas Moore
'be summoned as a witness in connection with disposition of hogs at Humber piggery.

Committee adjourned at 12.55 p.m. until to-morrow at 10 a.m.

COMMITTEE ROOM,

Thursday, Jan. 6, 1897.

Committee met at 10 a.m, pursuant to adjournment.

Present :
Mr. Charlton,. Chairman.

Messieurs Cleland, Coninee, Crawford, Davis, Field, Garrow, German, Harcourt,
Haycock, Kerns, Kidd, McPherson, McNicol, Macnish, Marter, Matheson, Stratton,
St. John, Willoughby.— 20.

The following witnesses were in attendance : Messrs. R. Oster, H. Oster, I. Warner,
Neil McKinnon, Chas. Moore, P. McElroy, T. Whitehead, Ed. Kearney, T. Smith, Frank
Dunn, R. Jackson, Fred. Newton, Wm. Newton, Prof. Sweetappie.

Frank Dunn was recalled and his examination further continued. See Index.

Mr. St. John asked if the Committee would like to have laid before them Frank
Dunn's written statement to him previous to this examination.

Moved by Mr. Garrow, seconded by Mr. Haycock, and Ordered : That Mr. St. John
be invited or requested to submit to the committee the written statements in his hands
obtained from the witnesses Newton and Dunn and signed by them, who have been
examined upon the enquiry respecting the Humber piggery.

Mr. St. John submitted and read the statement made by Dunn, but refused to sub-
mit the statement in his posession made by Newton.

Moved by Mr. Macnish, seconded by Mr. Macpherson : That Mr. Warner be next
examined.

Moved in amendment by Mr. St. John, seconded by Mr. Matheson : That William
Newton be next called as a witness.

The vote was taken on the amendment, which was declared lost on the following
division :

Yeas. — Messieurs Crawford, Haycock, Kerns, McNicol, Matheson, St. John — t>.

Nays. — Messieurs Cleland, Conmee, Davis, Field, Garrow, German, Harcourt,
Harty, Macpherson, Macnish — 10.

Isaiah Warner, caretaker of the piggery, was then called and sworn. He gave
evidence in regard to the first appearance of the disease, the inspection by Prof. Smith,
and the disposition of the hogs. See Index.

Committee adjourned at 12.55 p.m., until to-morrow at 10.30 a.m.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1807-8

COMMITTEE ROOM,

Friday, January 7, 1898.

Committee met at 10.30 a.m., pursuant to adjournment.

Present :
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

Messieurs Cleland, Davis, Field, Harcourt, Harty, Haycock, Kerns, Kidd, Macpher-
son, McNieol, Macnisb, Matheson, Meacham, Stratton, St. John, Willoughby — 17.

The following witnesses were in attendance.

Messrs. Neil McKinnon, R. Oster, H. Oster, T. Whitehead, C. Moore, P. McElroy,
T. Smith, Ed. Keaney, R. Jackson. Prof. Sweetapple, I. Warner, Wm. Newton, Frank
Dunn.

I. Warner was recalled and his examination completed. .See Index.

Thomas Smith and Thomas "Whitehead were severally sworn and gave evidence in
regard to the killing and dressing of the hogs. See Index.

Wm. Newton was also sworn and gave evidence as to the condition of the dressed
hogs, which he drew from the piggery to the cold storage at the Central Prison. See
Index.

On motion of Mr. Macnish, seconded by Mr. Field, Ordered : That J. E. Bret hour
and J. Feath* rston be called to give evidence on Tuesday next.

On motion of Mr. St. John, seconded by Matheson, Ordered : That Mr. Henderson,
George Simpson and Dr. Hurd be called as witnesses next Tuesday morning.

Committee adjouined at 12.40 until to morrow at 10 a.m.

COMMITTEE ROOM,

Saturday, January 8, 1898.

Committee met pursuant to adjournment, at 10 a.m.

Present :
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

Messieurs Auld, Oleland, Davis, Field, Harcourt, Harty, Kerns, Kidd, Macnish,
Marter, Matheson, St. John, Willoughby— 14.

The following witnesses were in attendance :

Messrs. Neil McKinnon, Charles Moore, P. McElroy, T. Whitehead, H. Oster, R.
Oster, Ed. Keaney, R. Jackson, Thomas Moore, Thomas Smith, I. Warner, Prof. Sweet-
apple, R. Hunter, Fred. Newton.

A statement of the revenue from Central Prison industries was laid on the table.

On motion of Mr. Matheson, seconded by Mr. Kerns, Ordered : That there be laid
before this committee the details of the following revenue accounts from Central Prison
industries :

The T. Eaton Co., Limited $2,665 20

Central Prison maintenance 8,143 24

Nelson Sons & Co 20,55 1 00

Stanley Wells & Co 458 53

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Charles Moore, butcher at Central Prison, was called and sworn. He gave evidence
as to the condition of the hogs when received at the Central Prison. See Index.

Prof. Sweetapple was recalled and gave further evidence. See Index.
Committee adjourned at 11 a.m., until 10 a.m. on Tuesday next.

COMMITTEE ROOM,

Tuesday, January 11, 1398.

Committee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to adjournment.

Present :
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

Messieurs Auld, Cleland, Conmee, Crawford, Davis, Field, German, Kearns, Mc-
Pherson, McNicol, Macnish, Marter, Matheson, Meacham, Middleton, Stratton, St.
John, Willoughby— 19.

The following witnesses were in attendance :

Messrs. I, Warner, H. Oster, R. Oster, Dr. Kurd, P, McElroy, Ed. Keaney, P.
Smith, T. Wbitehead, F. Dunn, Neil McKinnon, C, Moore, R Jackson, Prof. Sweetapple,
J. Featherston, M.P., A. B. Race, Fred. Newton.

Thomas Whi ehead, Neil McKinnon, Charles Moore and Prof. Sweetapple were
severally further examined. See Index.

Mr. Featherston, M.P , was sworn, and gave evidence with respect to his experience
with cholera in his own herd. See Index.

Mr. Noxon was requested to appear before the committee to-morrow and produce all
the books of account of the Central Prison.

Committee adjourned at 1.15 p.m. until to-morrow at 10 a.m.

• COMMITTEE ROOM,

Wednesday, January 12, 1898.

Committee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to adjournment.

Present :
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

Messieurs Cleland, Davis, Field, German, Harcourt, Harty, Haycock, Kerns, Mac
pherson, McNicol, Macnish, Matheson, Meacham, St. John, Willoughby — 16.

The following witnesses were in attendance : Messrs. J. Noxon, F. Williams, P. Me
Elroy, I. Warner, Ed. Kearney, A. B. Race.

Mr. Noxon produced the books of account of the Central Prison, and was examined
in regard to the cost of construction of piggery. See Index.

F. Williams, shipping clerk of Central Prison, was also examined in regard to this
matter. See Index.

P. McElroy was also examined in regard to the cost of sinking well at Piggery. See
Index.

Committee adjourned at 12.40 p.m., until to morrow at 10a.m.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. I.) 1897-8-

OOMMITTBE ROOM,

Thursday, January 13, 1898.
Committee met at 10 a.m. pursuant to adjournment.

Present :
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

Messieurs Auld, Cleland, Crawford, Davis, Field, German, Harcourt, Harty, Hay-
cock, Kerns, Macpherson, MoNicol, Macnish, Marter, Matheson, Stratton, St. John,
Willoughhy— 19.

The following witnesses were in attendance : Messrs. I. Warner, R. Oster, H. Oster,
F. Williams, R. Jackson, P. McElroy.

Messrs. Robert Oster, Henry Oster, I. Warner' and James Noxon were further
examined in regard to various matters in connection with the piggery. See Index.

Committee adjourned at 11.20 a.m., until to-morrow at 10 a.m.

COMMITTEE ROOM,

Friday, January 14, 1898.

Committee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to adjournment.

Present :
Mr. Charlton, Chairman.

Messieurs. Cleland, Crawford, Field, German, Harcourt, Kerns, Macpherson, McNicol,
Marter, Meacham, St. John — 12.

The chairman submitted and read draft' of report which, upon motion of Mr. German,
seconded by Mr. Macpherson, was adopted as the report of the committee, and ordered to
be presented to the House, along with the minutes of their proceedings and the evidence
given as taken by a stenographer.

Committee then adjourned sine die.

EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE.

23rd December, 1897,

Mr. 0. H. SPROULE, sworn.
Examined by Mr. MATHESON.

Q. Did you bring the book with Dr. Chamberlain's travelling expenses 1
A. No, I have no book.

Q. Are not the travelling expenses charged in some account book I Is not there an
account kept with him ?

A. No, there is no special account — no personal account. Entries are made into the
appropriation ledger from these vouchers direct, where all the expenses of Dr. Chamber-
lain's office are entered.

.
(jl Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-& .

Q. Well, when you give him an accountable warrant, do you not keep an account
with him so as to account for the warrant 1

A. Does not that show there 1

Mr. SPROULE at this point went over to where Mr. MATHESON was sitting and con-
ferred with him.

Mr. SPROULE was requested by the Chairman to resume his seat so that the com-
mittee could hear.

•
Q. What is your practice as to advancing money for travelling expenses to officials I

A. An official applies for an advance when funds are required for the purpose of
travelling.

Q. You give him an accountable warrant 1

A. He gets a cheque for an amount of from $50 to $100, according to the distance
he is required to travel, within a reasonable time.

Q. And do you enter that in any book 1

A. Certainly, it is charged to the appropriation just the same as any other payment ;
everything is charged ; that is the rule followed.

Q. Do you keep an account with the official, in any book, charging him with the
amount of the warrant he has received, and crediting him with the amount of the
vouchers he puts in ?

A. Certainly ; it is in the appropriation ledger. The appropriation ledger is kept
as directed under the Audit Act. We open an account for the expenses, say ot the
Inspector's office, with an appropriation of so much. Against that we charge all advances
made, whether for travelling expenses or for other purposes. When a voucher is account-
able it stands there marked in the book, " accountable," and ot course when the returns
come in it is accounted for.

Q. You look at this paper, Mr. Sproule. These are Dr. Chamberlain's travelling
expenses for 1894. What is that $12 marked "refund" there?

A. That is the difference between the returns and the advances shown on the state-
ment.

Q. But the balance does not amount to that sum, apparently. Why did he
refund $12?

Hon. Mr. HARCOURT. — He didn't expend it, that is all.

By Mr. MATHESON — Q. But he returned more than the balance due.

A. Balance unexpended appears to be $10.95. I do not know just now how that
occurred. I can look into that and explain it ; he refunded a dollar or more than he should
have refunded, apparently. There is no necessity for putting anything like that down
in the records. At the end of the year all officials are notified to make their returns ; if
they have not made them, to get them out at once, and this is just one of those cases. I
can explain that, Mr. Matheson, if you come down to the office.

Q. In the year 1895 he was advanced $1,050, and he accounts for how much 1
A. $1,064. It runs the other way this time, and a balance is due him, so he gets a
cheque.

16 J. 17

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Among that $1,064 which he was allowed, is there an item of $40 for an accident
insurance policy 1

A. You say " for which he was allowed." That raises an old question, and I have
to go over this, as I have been placed in an entirely false position with regard to this
payment. Mr. Matheson treats it as an item which he has been allowed ; I have never
allowed this account yet.

Q. Is it part of that account ?
A. Yes.

Q Has he at anytime refunded that amount, or has it been charged up to him 1
A. No.

Q So that it has practically been paid by the Province ?
A. Yes.

Q. As a matter of fact, the Province has paid that $40 1
A. Yes.

Q. Mr. Sproule, are these accounts in any way different from the way in which they
were when sent to this Committee in 1896 ?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. My recollection is that I myself saw an item for a field glass here.
A. What year's return is that 1

Q For 1895.

A. There is no such item as that in the 1895 accounts. Last year I asked where it
was. It was under discussion, then. It was not brought before me, then, and I have
never seen it since.

Mr. MATHESON at this point sent for the Journals of the House for 1896, and
examined them at some length.

Mr. SPROULE. — It is not in the accounts for 1895, and never was there. It does
not appear in 1895 or since. Of course, I do not speak of previous years.

Q This is a most extraordinary thing. My own recollection is distinct that I saw
it there in the same way as travelling expenses. Do you know whether that account of
a field glass was brought before you at all ?

A. Well, that is a question I will have to refer back to the accounts before I can
answer it.

Q Speaking from your memory, has it been brought before you since the investiga-
tion 1

A. Only in a general way.

Q Do you know whether it was refunded or not ?

A. It was not refunded. If it was paid, it was paid prior to 1894-5. I understood
from statements made with regard to it that it was paid in the 1895 accounts; so I
looked only in the 1894 and 1895 to see if I could trace it.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1S97-8

Q. Who has had custody of these documents since last year 1

A. They are filed in the Treasury Department vault ; open to inspection by anyone
who applies for them through the proper channel. I am not the custodian.

Q. That is what I want to understand. You have them to inspect them, and then
return them to the department ?

A. Oh, no ! no ! When they come to the audit office they are already official docu-
ments of the Treasury Department. They cannot afterwards be taken from the Treasury
Department unless for inspection. If anyone wished to see a voucher, he applies either
directly or indirectly to the Treasurer, the head of the department. There is no item for
a field glass in 1894, 1895 or 1896. You need not look there for it.

Q. There is not now, but I am nearly certain there was in 1896.
A, No ; there never was.

Q. Well, how did we find it out, then ?

Hon. Mr. HARCOURT. — It came out in the evidence of Dr. Chamberlain.

Mr. MATHESON — My recollection is that I saw the item in the travelling expenses ;
but of course I won't swear to it.

Hon. 3ir. HARCOURT. — I never saw the item, that is one thing sure, and Mr. Sproule
says he has not seen it.

Mr. MATHESON again searched at some length through the evidence given by Mr.
Sproule before the Committee, as recorded in the Journals of the House, and expressed
the opinion that all the evidence then given was not printed.

Mr. WILLOUQHBY. — I am satisfied that there was more evidence given at that time
than appears in the Journals of the House.

Mr. MACNISH. — My recollection is that the item did not appear.

Mr. MATHESON — I am certain now that the account has been altered. I saw the
account there, and I asked Mr. Sproule " was your attention drawn to the fact that he
gave a field glass to the captain of one of the boats 1 " and Mr. Sproule replied that the
return had not been examined until it came before the Public Accounts Committee, and
he had not seen the item. Now I am certain that item of a field glass was charged there
at the bottom of the account. That is on the page 81 of the Appendix to the Journals
of 1896.

A. I can swear positively that that was never in. the Accounts for 1895 or 1896. I
have not examined the years before. I have examined the vouchers for the years 1894,
1895 and 1896, and it is not in either one year and never was. I can swear that.

Q. It was not at the time you examined them. How do you explain this ?
A. It was under discussion, but it never was there.

Q I asked you " was your attention drawn to the fact that he gave a field glass to
the captain of one of the boats ? " and you answered " For the reason that this return
had not been examined until it came before the Public Accounts Committee, I have not
taken action upon it since. I did not know of this item of a field glass."

A. Excuse me. If you run through other places in ay evidence you will see that I
made it plain that I had not passed the item, and had not seen it at the time I was exam-
ined. I wanted to see the account, and it could not be brought to my hand.

(51 Victoria, Appendix (Xo. 1.) 1S97-8

Q My recollection is that I handed it to you ?

A. No, my recollection is that it could not be found.

Q. How should I ask you if your attention had been drawn to this item, if I had
not it there ?

A. That I do not know anything about. You must get someone else to answer that ;
I do not know how it came. It certainly was not in the accounts of the year under ex-
amination at the time.

Q. It is not at present ?

A. Well, it never was in 1895 accounts, which were under examination at the time.
1 examined them carefully all through, and from the check marks of my assistants 1 am
satisfied it never was in there.

Q. Mr. Harcourt also disapproved of the item of insurance ]

Hon. Mr. HARCOURT. — 1 said it was irregular, because he did not have the initials of
his chief to the account.

Mr. MATHESON. — I do not hold that the ministers should be responsible for every act
of every official unless they endorse it, but if they do, then they must be held responsible.
I would be very sorry to make Mr. Harcourt responsible for the acts of his officials, un-
less lie endorses them.

Mr. SPROULE.— That is not a fair statement at all. I ca'n assure you that these
accounts are looked after as carefully as any accounts are anywhere.

By Mr. MATHESON. — Q I would like to ask you again. I asked you in 1896, p. 81
appendix of the Journals of the House. " Was your attention drawn to the fact that Dr.
Chamberlain gave a field glass to the captain of one of the boata 1" and your answer then
was {k for the reason that this return had not been examined until it came before the
Public Accounts Committee I have not taken action upon it since. I do not know as to
this item of a field glass " Now, when I spoke the words " this return," did I not mean
the item in the account for a field glass ?

A. I cannot tell what you meant at all.

29th December, 1897.
Mr. JAMES NOXON, sworn :

By Mr. GARROW.— rQ. I believe it is the pleasure of the Committee to have you state
now all about the origination and cost of that piggery, but at the present confine your-
self to the specific point that the Committee is dealing with this morning. I would like
you to begin at that portion of the history that relates to the outbreak and the mode of
disposal of the hogs.

A. On the disease appearing among the herd at the piggery, the caretaker came to
me to know what should be done. I went out myself to the piggery.

Q. When was that ]

A. About the latter part of June or early part of July, 1896.

Mr. KIDD at this point raised the objection that the proper form of oath had not
been administered.

(il Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1S97-8

Mr. NOXON was re-sworn and continued his evidence.

About the latter part of June or early part of July, 1896, it was reported to me that
there was disease amongst the hogs at the piggery. I went out myself and made an
inspection of the hogs. One or two of the hogs were sick and Tad vised the caretaker to
call in a veterinary surgeon to see what the trouble was. He did so, and it was after-
wards reported to me that the veterinarian said that the illness was caused by over-f ced-
ing, the strength of the food given to the bogs, and that by feeding bran or less heavy
food they would soon be all right again. I told him to go on and act upon the instruc-
tions given by the veterinary surgeon, and bran was got to feed them. Later it was
reported to me that the trouble had not diminished, but was increasing. We then called
in Prof Smith, who made a thorough examination. I told the caretaker to see Mr.
Hunter, who is the Government buyer, and for Mr. Hunter to see me after he had
inspected the hogs. Mr. Hunter called on me shortly afterwards and I then repeated to
him what I had said to Warner, that he should call in Prof. Smith and get his opinion.
On m^ instructions, Dr. Smith went out to the piggery to see what was the matter. The
next report to me was that he had been there and declared that the disease was cholera ;
I gave instructions to act upon whatever directions Dr. Smith might give for the purpose
of eradicating the disease and removing all possibility of its spreading in the locality. I
directed that his instructions should be implicitly obeyed. I was told by the caretaker
that those instructions were that no hogs were fco be allowed to leave the premises alive.
All were to be killed on the premises ; those that were in good health were to be made
use of, and those showing any indications whatever of disease were to be burned.

Q. Did you see that the instructions of Dr. Smith were carried out ?

A. The next step was, I was informed that they had been carried out, and that a
number of hogs had been found wholesome and healthy, and that these, to the number of
ninety-seven, had been taken to the slaughter house at the Central Prison and examined
by Dr. Sweetapple, who was acting under the instructions of Dr. Smith, and who pro-
nounced them to be entirely free from disease and fit for food. These were sold by Mr.
Hunter to Mr. Harris of this city.

By Mr. McPnERSON. — Q. Will you kindly state how these hogs were purchased and
where ?

A. On the Toronto market, in the latter part of May.

Q. What class of pigs were they 1

A. Store pigs, weighing from seventy to eighty pounds

By Mr. FIELD. — Q. What is the name of the veterinary gentleman you first called
in?

A. Mr. Hurd.

By Mr. McPnfiRSON. — Q. Will you kindly state from whom the pigs were purchased I
A. I think from Mr. Harris, the man who eventually bought them, and who has
practically control of the whole live stock trade in the city as regards pigs.

Q. What price did you pay 1

A. I can't say without reference to accounts.

By Mr. CRAWFORD. — Q, How long was it before the nature and extent of the disease
was known 1

A. I can't say positively, — possibly ten days from the time the disease first appeared
amongst the hogs until they were slaughtered. I can't say exactly.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-H

Q I suppose it was reported to you as soon as it was found out 1

A. It might have been the same day. I can't say, but it probably would be.

By Mr. McPnERSON.— Q. Are you aware whether any other lots of hogs had cholera
about that time ?

A. Only what I was told.

By Mr. G ARROW.— Q. Did you hear that pork was disposed of which was alleged to
have been diseased ? Your instructions were to sell those found fit for sale and to destroy
those that were not.

A. Certainly.

Q. Did you hear for a considerable time afterwards any complaint about diseased
pjrk? »

A. Not at all.

Q • Not to you or to any representatives of the Government ?
A. Not at all.

Q. When did you know that there was any suggestion of that kind ?
A. When I saw it in the public print two or three months ago.

By Hon. Mr. HARCOURT. — Q. Who is Prof. Smith and who is Dr. Sweetapplef

A. Prof. Smith is the head of the Veterinary College in this city, and Dr. Sweet-
apple is one of the professors there.

Q Who is Mr. Harris ?

A. He is a very extensive dealer in hogs in the city.

By Mr. AULD. — Q. Are you aware that Prof. Smith has charge of Ontario for the
Dominion Government in reference to the diseases of cattle ?

A. So I am told. He assures me himself that he has.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS. — Q. After you knew that cholera was in the herd, how lor g
was it before the hogs were destroyed ?

A. Within a couple of days. I think we knew it on Saturday, and they were
destroyed on Monday and Tuesday.

By Mr. CRAWFORD.— Q. I understood you to say it was about ten days.

A. I was speaking from the time sickness appeaed amongst the herd. I did not
know what the sickness was at first. One of the veterinarians said it was from over-
feeding.

Q. It was about eight days before you commenced to slaughter the hogs 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many died in that time ?

A. I do not know : a good many died.

Q. Was the disease spread amongst the herd ?

A. Of course ; there were a number of pens. The disease occurred in some of the
pens, and not in the others.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-S

Q. Had you some that died of disease in the different pens 1
A. In some of the pens, but not all the pens.

Q. Had some of these hogs died before Prof. Smith was called in ?
A. I believe some did.

By Mr. McPnERSON. — Q. How many hogs were in each pen 1
A. Ten or twelve.

Q. How many hogs altogether ?

A. 268 hogs altogether. We had some hogs outside in pens as well.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Have you superintended the piggery from the beginning 1
A. It has been under my charge.

Q. You were responsible for everything up to the time of breaking out of the cholera,
and since ?

A. Yes.

Q. Have you any personal knowledge of the condition of the hogs on Monday when
you commenced to kill them 1

A. No.

Q. You made no personal inspection yourself 1

A. I did. I was at the piggery two or three times between the time the disease was
first reported to me and when it was pronounced to be cholera.

Q. You did not pretend to assert what state they were in ?
A. They appeared to be sick.

Q. Oan you tell me the date you first went there ?
A. I cannot tell you.

Q. Was Mr. Warner there ?
A. He was there.

Q. Were they sick before Warner arrived 1
A. He was there when I went there.

Q. Was Warner there during the month of June as caretaker ?

A. I cannot say that he was there every day in that month. I do not know.

Q. He is the caretaker ?
A. Yes, he is the caretaker.

Q. Was he not away during the month of June down east engaged in the Dominion

elections 1

A. He was away in June, but I do not know what he was away for.

Q. Do you not think it was your duty to find out why he was away.

A. I think he made application for leave of absence in order to sell his farm.

HI Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Can't you tell me when he was away ?
A. J cannot say.

Q. Cannot you find out 1
A. Only by the statement he might give me.

Q Have you no report when he came back 1

A. Not to say correctly ; of course I do not know.

Q. I have been led to believe that the hogs were dying before he got back ?
A. It may be possible : I do not know.

Q. Do you know the date on which Dr. Hurd inspected the herd ?
A . I do not know.

Q. Have you no way of finding it out 1

A. Yes, from the records kept by Mr. Warner the caretaker.

Q. They are here I presume ?
A. I suppose he has them.

Q. Have you any knowledge of how many hogs died before Saturday, the 10th July,
1896?

A. I cannot say.

Q. You know that there were some which had died ?
A. I believe there were.

Q. You do not know how many 1
A. I do not know.

Q. What was done with them ?
A. I believe they were buried.

Q. Do you know the date on which Dr. Smith inspected the hogs ?

A. Only by the date which he has given me. If it was Saturday, it would be Sat-
urday the lO.th July.

Q. Were you out that day 1
A. No.

Q.. You did not go there at all that day ?
A. No.

Q. So that you have no personal knowledge of the inspection 1
A. No.

Q. How many hogs were there there, on Saturday, the 10th July.
A. I cannot tell you.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Where were the hogs located 1
A. At the Humber piggery.

Q Were they within the building 1
A. Not all of them.

Q. How many were within the building, and how many without 1
A. I can't tell you that.

Q You have no chance of finding that out — of your own knowledge ?

A. No.

Q. Where were the hogs that were without the building ]
A. In the pens outside.

Q How many were in the pens outside ?
A. I do not know.

Q. Were not the pigs outside principally breeding sows and the little suckers ?
A. Yes.

Q. Small pigs were outside 1

A. Others as well. There were other pigs outside as well.

Q. Did you look at them when you were there t
A Of course T saw them.

Q Did they look sick ?
A. No, not at all.

Q. Would the date you were there be long before Saturday, the 10th July ?

A. I cannot say. It was somewhere between the first and the tenth. I am only
speaking at random if I give any date at all.

Q. And they did not look diseased then ?

A. There were only one or two that looked sick.

Q. Where were those that were slaughtered and buried 1
A. I do not know.

Q. Were they within the building ?
A. 1 do not know.

Q. How many pens were within the building ?
A. I cannot say that.

Q. You have not gone into the details, then, of this building ?
A. Not as much you have.

Q. Very likely you have not. That is what I imagined. Were the pens single 1
A. They were contiguous to one another.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. McPHERSON —

Q. And no separation between them 1
A. There was an ordinary partition.

By Mr. ST. JOHN —

Q. About three or four feet high ?
A. That is so.

Q. They were all breathing in the common air of the building 1
A. Yes, with all the doors and windows open.

Q. What did Warner tell you when he came to see you 1
A. That the hogs appeared to be sick.

Q, Did he tell you what was the matter ?
A. No.

Q. Did he tell you that some of them had died 1
A. I do not think he did the first time he came.

Q. The next time he came to see you he told you 1
A. I think he did.

Q. That was before Saturday, the lOtfi July ?

Q Have you any knowledge of how many hogs were killed within the building that
were not dressed for food ?

A. I do not know.

Q. Or how many pigs within the building that were attempted to be dressed for
food?

A. I cannot say.

Q Are you able to state whether or not any selection was made during the killing
of the sound from the sick ones ?

A. Only from what I have been told.

Q. During the days of the killing was there any inspector there selecting the sound
from the diseased hogs ?

A. I do not know.

Q. Who made the selection ?
A. 1 cannot say.

Q. To whom did you relegate the supervision of the selection 1
A. To Prof. Smith.

Q. Was he there or was anbody there on his behalf ?
A. 1 do not know. I placed the whole thing under h:s charge.

61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Was he there 1
A. I cannot say,

Q Has Prof. Smith told you whether he or Prof. Sweetapple was present?
A. He has not told me whether he had been there or had not I do not know.

There was here some discussion as to the admissibility of the evidence.
Examination continued by Mr. ST. JOHN.

Q. You have made urgent inquiries as regard the killing of these hogs and the dis-
posal of the meat.

A. I have made inquiries as to whether Prof. Smith's instructions were carried out,
and they told me that they had been.

Q. Did Prof. Smith report to you ?
A. Verbally.

Q No written report 1
A. No.

Q. What report did you receive ?

A. The report I received was that there was no doubt that the disease of cholera had
attacked the herd.

Q What did Prof. Smith say to you?

A. What I am saying now is in reference to what occurred at the time. That's
what I am speaking about.

Q. What report did you get ?

A. I got a written report from Dr. Smith.

Q. What is the date of that report ?
A. 21st December, 1897.

Q. What report did you get on the 10th July, 1896, when the inspection was made ?
A. A verbal report.

Q. You have already stated that you got no written report ?
A. Not at that time.

Q. So that as you have got no written report, I am compelled to ask you what you
got verbally, because if you had any written document I would be compelled to call for
that written document 1

A. It was not in the form of a verbal report. There was a conversation about what
had been done,

Q. What did Prof. Smith tell you 1 '

A. I did not see him on the 10th July. It was after the thing was all over, and the
pigs had been destroyed and all that.
Q. How long after that 1

A. I cannot say.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No 1.) 1897-8

Q. When were the pigs destroyed 1

A. I think on the 12fch and 13th July, 1896.

Q. You don't know how long after that before you heard from Dr. Smith ?
A. No.

Q. You mean to say that after the time you had the conversation with 'Dr. Smith
and Mr. Warner and Mr. Hunter, until several days after the killing of those hogs, you
had made no further inquiries to what had been done 1

A. Yes, I inquired from Mr. Hunter who was acting for me.

Q. When did you make those inquiries.
A. Immediately after the slaughtering.

Q. What did Mr. Hunter report to you ?

A. That Prof. Smith had given instructions to bum the hogs that were diseased, and
that use might be made of those that were not diseased.

Q. And as you understood, no hog was to be cleaned for food that was diseased ?
A. Yes, that was so.

Q. And what else ?

A. That the instructions had been carried out, and that the hogs that were sold were
entirely free from disease.

Q. Mr. Hunter did not give you any report of the number of pigs killed there ?
A. No.

Q. Did he tell you whether he was there himself during the killing?

A. I do not know. I don't think he was. Of course I am not speaking from
knowledge.

Q. As a matter of fact he was 1
A. I did not know that.

Q. Was Warner there during the killing ?
A. He was, so I am told.

Q. So as to the state of the hogs that were killed you have no personal knowledge ?
A. No.

Q. How did you know that the hogs that were killed and dressed averaged from 70
to 80 lba.1

A. By the weights that were returned the hogs averaged 90 Ibs. dressed.

Q. Did you inspect them ?
A. I have seen the account.

Q. When were the hogs sold ?

A. I imagine it must have been the 12th or 13th July, 1896.

6 1 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1. 1897-8

Q. That is, they wereksold to Harris on the same day as the killing.
A. I suppose so.

A. Who made the contract with Harris to purchase the hogs 1
Q. Mr. Hunter. I had nothing to do with that.

Q. When was the report of the sale made to you 1

A. The report would be the account I saw going through.

Q What was the revenue derived from the sale of these hogs ?
A, I canEot say exactly — between four and five 'hundred dollars.

Q. Who estimated the value of the 261 pigs in the original report ]
A. Mr. Warner and Mr. Hunter.

Q. Was that $400 or $500 included in the amounts received from hogs in 1896 in
that statement ?

A. Yes.

Q Then the 261 pigs was the full number, the full complement of pigs at the killing?
A. I think there were 263 altogether.

Q. Then as a matter of fact the hogs were valued twice over in that statement 1
A. I do not know about that.

Q. I must ask you to look at that statement. If you look on page 4 of that state-
ment you will see the item "Pigs sold, 1896. $2,008.3$. " Does that include the $400 or
$500 for the sale of these hogs ?

A. It does.

Q Then are not these hogs accounted for again in showing the profit that would
have been made had the cholera not broken out 1

A. That to have been made clear should have been put " loss value."

Q. The 261 pigs were clear l'f
A. Yes.

Q. Then the value of these 26 1 pigs has been placed twice 1

A. No; the intention was to value the loss, and if it had said "loss" it would have
been all right.

Q. But it does not say that 1

A. It is the loss that I am dealing with.

Q. You say now that that does not mean what you say. That it should have been
the loss ?

A. That was intended and it was spoken of as being the loss.

Q. Who made that valuation 1
A. Mr. Hunter and Mr. Warner.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-$

Q. You say there were 263 pigs all told. Where did you make it out 1
A. There may have been 261,

Q. As a matter of fact there was one hog that was not killed at all ?
A. Yes.

Q. Why was that hog not killed ?

A. I cannot tell you. I supposed it had been killed.

<^. Why in the face of that order was it not killed ?

A. I did not know that it had not been killed for months after^arda.

Q. Where were the pigs taken ?
A. After the slaughter you mean ?

Q. Yes.

A. Those that weie diseased were burned on the premises.

Q. Do you know that some were slaughtered on the premises and taken to the cold
storage room at the Central Prison 1

A. I am told so.

Q. Did you know that the orders were to to burn the diseased and to clean and
dress for human food the sound hogs ?

A. So I am told.

Q. Did you know that before the killing ?
A. I did.

Q. Did you not think that a rather remarkable thing ?
A. I thought it reasonable.

Q. Did you think it reasonable to kill hogs within the same building and dress them
for human food and burn the others that were diseased 1

A. Yes.

Q. Would you eat that kind of hog yourself ?
A. I would.

Mr. ST. JOHN : That will do.
FRED NEWTON, sworn.
Examined by Mr. ST. JOHN.

Q. What is your business, Newton 1
A. Wholesale butcher.

Q. How long have you been in that business ?
A. In the neighborhood of 15 years.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Have you any knowledge in regard to the killing of pigs at the Humber piggery
in July, 1896?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who employed you ?
A. Robert Hunter.

Q. Who is he 1

A. The Government cattle buyer, I believe.

•

Q Did Mr. Hunter make arrangements with you ?
A. He sent his son out to see me on Sunday morning.

Q. He sent his son ; did you know his name t
A. No, I don't know his name.

Q What time ?

A. About 9 o'clock in the morning.

Q. What did he want you to do ?

A. He told me that his father wanted to see me. I asked him what his father
wanted me for, and he said I had better go down and see his father at once.

Q. Who were present when that interview took place ?
A. My brother, William.

Q. Where were you when that interview took place ?
A, At my place on Somerset avenue, Dovercourt village.

Q. In pursuance of that conversation, what did you do ?

A. I went down to Hunter's place with his son, in his own rig. Down to Hunter's
place on Lakeview avenue.

Q. What took place there ?

A. Hunter asked me if I would be busy on to-morrow and the next day, and I said
I did not think I would. He then asked me to bring along my brother with me and go
to the piggery to kill pigs, and also to fetch along a horse and wagon with me.

Q. What further conversation took place ?

A. I spoke to him about another man who I could get to help me, and he said, " you
had better bring him'"

Q. Who was that man?
A. Frank Dunn.

Q. And you secured him ?
A. Yes.

Q. What instructions did you get from Hunter about killing the pigs 1
A. He told me to get there about 3 o'clock Monday morning.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What did he tell you to do 1

A. To get out there and start to kill the hogs and get it done as quickly as I could,

Q. Did he tell you what was the matter with the hogs 1

Q. You did not know on Sunday what was the matter ]
A. No.

Q. Did you 30 out on Monday 1
A. Yes.

Q. And what were you to do 1

A. I was to kill all the hogs that were large and fat enough.

Q. Those were the instructions of Hunter 1
A. Yes.

Q. When did you arrive at the piggery 1

A. In the neighborhood of 3 o'clock on Monday morning.

Q. What did you find when you arrived at the piggery 1

A. Mr. Warner was there and several others. I do not know who they were.

Q. Mr. Warner was there when you arrived 1
A. Yes.

Q. Were any preparations made for the killing ?

A. Yes, the water was all boiling ready to scald them, and there was a big vat
turned upside down to scrape the hogs on.

Q. The water was boiling at 3 o'clock ?
A. Yes.

Q. And they had provision made for the scalding of the hogs ?
A. Yes, there was a large barrel there.

Q. Who arrived with you at that hour — 3 o'clock in the morning ?

A. Dunn and 1 went together in his rig, and my brother William came along after-
wards with his wagon ; he arrived a few minutes after we did.

Q. Did you commence killing hogs as soon as you arrived ?

A. No, I started getting myself ready, getting up the scaffolding.

Q. You did not start killing until Hunter arrived 1

A. No. When he arrived he told me to get started. That he thought we would
have been started before.

Q. Was there any inspector present ?
A. No, sir.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What were your instructions from Hunter 1
A. To kill the hogs.

Q. What hogs 1

A. In the pens inside the building.

Q. Had you any instructions for dressing the hogs ?

A. No. He told me to go ahead and dress the hogs that were large and fat enough.

Q, Where were the hogs located ?

A. There were a number of hogs in the pens and there were some sows outside with
little ones.

Q. When did you start killing ?

A. I guess it would take up about an hour's time getting ready.

Q. Was Hunter there when you started 1
A. Ye*.

Q. You started about 4 o'clock ?
A,. Yes.

Q. Did Hunter remain all day ?

A. No, he did not. He only remained a short time.

Q. When did you next see Mr. Hunter ?

A. I think he came up again in the forenoon, about 11 o'clock. I believe he did.

Q. Did he give you any further instructions at that time 1'^
A. Just to keep going.

Q. Where did you start killing ?

A. In the first pen ou the right hand side.

Q. What end of the building 1
A. At the north end.

Q. How many hogs were in there ?

A. I cannot just say the number. I know there were six or seven. I think so.

Q. Who assisted you in the killing 1

A. Frank Dunn, and a number of others.

Q. Who were the others ?

A. I did not know just who they were ?

Q. Did they assist you up there 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q Were they always there when you were sticking the hogs ?
A. Not all of them. Frank Dunn was there most of the time.

17 J. 33

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What state were these hogs in that you killed !
A. They were in a pretty bad state.

Q. Were any hogs in the pen that you killed and dressed that day in a sound state t
A, Not one.

Q. Take the first pen you have now spoken of. How did you know they were not
sound ?

A. Well, I don't know about that. The first bunch of hogs I went in and knocked
and Hunter said, •' Don't knock any more. You mark them up too much."

Q. And the first batch you knocked, and then you stopped after knocking them ?
A. Yes.

Q How many did you do like that ?!
A. About six.

Q. What was the condition of those six hogs ?

A. Well the first hog put up on the hooks had a big hunk between the hams, and
there was a big carbuncle on the flank with corruption coming out of it. I went to work
and opened this hog, and cut this cancer or carbuncle out of it, and burst it in baking it
out, and the stink of it would knock you higher nor a kite. I went along and took the
insides out, and they were all discolored.

Q. Will you describe the state you found the insides in T

A. The first hogs were not discolored BO bad as they were as I went along further ?

Q. Were they discolored ?
A. They were.

Q. How?

A. They were all kind of purple, inflamed and very heated inside.

By Mr. OHARLTON :

Q. Is that the meat or the intestines ?
A. The intestines.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. Taking the entrails, describe the natural color.

A. The natural should be a nice bright pink color. Instead of that they were dark
red color and all the rest of the guts was the same.

Q What quantity of food did you find in them 1
A. There was scarcely any food in them.

Q. What signs of inflammation did you find 1
A. On the inside of the hogs that were diseased ?

Q. Yes.

A. They were all inflamed, as I said before. Terribly unhealthy.

Gl Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Were there any outward appearances of disease on the first hogs ?

A. Yes, there was that carbuncle. On the others I do not believe there was any
marks to amount to much. There might have been a few small marks.

Q. How many did you knock altogether in the first batch 1
A. Six hogs.

Q. Just tell me what you did from the beginning to the end of the whole killing. I
want the whole of the facts and nothing else. Did you kill all the hogs ?

A. I did, except perhaps one or two that Frank Dunn killed.

Q. State from the beginning to the end what did yon do, and in what condition did
did you find them ?

A. I started up at 3 o'clock in the morning, or at least that is what he wanted me to
start at, and I worked around there getting myself ready. When Hunter came there he
says, «' Go on, boys, get started." I got in there with my hammer and knocked five or
six pigs. I stuck them, got them up and scalded them. Put this one with the carbuncle
up on the hooks. My brother says, " That hog looks as if he has been fighting." He
said this to Mr. Hunter, who says, " No, that's a hog we cut, and he didn't heal up prop-
erly.' We got this bunch of .hogs stuck and hung up and they were shipped to the
Central prison. I went on to the next pen and found them in a pretty bad state, with
big purple spots about their necks, shoulders, and about the bellies.

Q. And as you were dressing them, in what conditio'n did you find them ?

A. Worse, ratter than otherwise. The entrails were badly inflamed indeed, and I
found it the same throughout the whole building for the resb of the trip.

Q. And were they better or worse on the second day than on the first.
A. They were worse on the second day.

Q. How many pigs did you kill within that enclosure altogether for any purpose ?
A. Killed and burned or anything else ? I think in the neighborhood of 300 hogs.

Q. Were there any hogs from which you were killing hogs that you didn't stick t
A. There would be the ones previously wheeled out dead that I didn't stick 1

Q, Hogs within the building died 1
A. Yes,

Q. Did yo.u know what the disease was *?
A. Not at that time.

Q. When did you know ?
A. I knew on Monday night.

Q. Did they give you any intimation of what they were going to do ?
A. Yes.

Q. How many pigs did you dress altogether 1

A. I dressed about — there were ninety-seven of them shipped.

61 Victoria. . Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you dress some that were not shipped 1

A. I dressed some that put up such a bad appearance they had to be taken out and
burned after I had got them cleaned. There were in the neighborhood of five or six or
eight that were actually dressed and presented such a bad appearance that they were
taken down from the hooks and put into the fire.

Q. Who took them down ?
A. Mr. Warner.

Q. Were there any pigs outside of those that you stuck and scalded that presented
such a bad appearance that you did not dress them 1

A. Yes.

Q Were there any pigs sent to the Central Prison that were perfectly clean and
Bound ?

A. No there was not one.

Q. What were the condition of the pigs that were sent ?

A. Every pig I dressed was diseased inside. They were inflamed and there were a
number of dark purple spots on the outside of the hogs. And again there were spDts in
places that I could cut out.

Q. Purple spots, diseased spots, were they, that you cut out ?•
A. Yes.

Q. Were there any parts cut out of these ninety-seven hogs that were shipped to the
Central Prieon ?

A. That's what I say.

Q. How many of them had pieces cut out ?
A. In the neighborhood of a dozen.

Q. Where were they cut out 1

A. In the neckf, shoulders and bellies. Wherever I could get at them to cut them
ont that they wouldn't show up too bad.

Q. Who asked you to cut them out ?
A. Mr. Warner.

Q, Did you ask him, or how did he come to instruct you to do this ?

A. When I was dressing these hogs I would call his attention to them and he would
eay, u I guess you can cut this out."

Q. Can you tell me the condition of any hogs that you dressed and cleaned 1
A. Yes, they were dying.

Q. How did you know they were dying ?
A. Because I could see them dying,

Q. How did you know 1

A. They were lying on their sides scratching away and coughing and dying. You
could see them.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q, Row many in that cjndition did you kill '?
A. Two or three.

Q. Waa there any in a worse condition than that ?
A. Yes, there was one dead."

Q. Did you stick that hog ?

A. Yes. Warner was there and he said, " Stick him anyway. He's not long dead.'

Q. Well, now, as a matter of fact, is that true, that there was a hog there that wasn't
long dead 1

A. Yes.

Q. Do 1 understand you to say that you would go in and kill a certain number of
hogs and would take them out of the pens, and that when you came back you found a
hog dead 1

A. Yes, dead and dying.

Q How often did that occur during your two days' operations.
A. It didn't occur very often the first day.

Q. Did it occur the first day 1

A. Yes, on two or three occasions.

Q That when you went back for another selection of hogs you would find hogs that
were living when you went out would be dying when you came back ?

A. Yes.

Q. What appearance did they have ? Did you notice when you went out that there
was any difference between those you were dressing and those you left ?

A. No, not any difference. I went in and picked them out indifferently.

Q. Now how many instances did you find of that thing on the second day 1
A. A good many different instances.

Q. Can you tell me what you did with this particular hog that was dead ?
A. That hog bled fairly well.

Q. He bled fairly well 1
A. Yes.

Q. No doubt about it 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. In what condition was it 1

A. Pretty bad. I gouged in and took half the jaws off him.

Q. And what happened with him afterwards ?
A. I believe he was shipped.

61- Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1S97-8

Q. Was he or WAS be not shipped 1

A. I would not like to swear to that. I believe he was, and that I would be safe in
saying that he was shipped.

Q. Who ordered you to gouge the jaws out of that fellow 1
A. Mr. Warner.

Q. Well, now, how many hogs did you kill and dress and ship to the Central Prison
on the first day ?

A. I just can't remember the number. Something over forty.

Q. Something over forty on the first day, and the balance on the second day, ninety
seven in all 1

A. Yes.

Q. What arrangements were made for shipping hogs ?

A. As they were killed, my brother took them away in the wagon, as fast as I
could get them ready for him.

Q. What did Mr. Warner do during the operations ?

A. He was bringing out the dying and diseased hogs and the ones that had been
parily dressed and the guts,

Q. Bringing out everything excepting the solid hogs for the Central Prison.
A, Excepting the ones that were shipped.

Q. He burned everything and superintended the burning 1
A. Yes.

Q. And you have already said he told you to stick one hog in a dying condition t
A. Yes.

Q. And what other inatructions did you get apart from what you have already
stated from anybody, if you got any ?

A. I didn't have any.

Q. You were directed, as you have stated, to kill and dress every hog that was fat
and big enough ?

A. Yes.

Q. You had no knowledge, you have already stated, of what they were going to do
with these hogs ?

A. No.

Q. When did you get through ?
A . Tuesday afternoon.

Q. Have you any knowledge of how many hogs you killed that were burned ?
A. That I killed and scalded and that' were burned ?

Q. Yes.

A. There must have been fifteen or so.

61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Altogether.

A. Well, that would be the ones that were dressed and then taken off the hooks.

Q. Are you speaking now of the hogs that were inside the building ]
A. Yes.

Q. How many were killed outside ?
A. I can't tell you.

Q. Describe the age and condition of the hogs 1

A. There was an awful lot of little runts in the house.

Q. What condition were these young ones in?

A. In a prdtty bad condition. All jumping up and coughing and choking. In a
dying condition, I killed them with a hammer.

Q What about those hogs that you killed previously. Were they in a coughing and
choking condition 1

A. Many of them were. You would imagine that there was more as you were
passing down. You would hear them barking and coughing away.

Q. How many hogs out of the ninety-seven that were shipped had cholera spots on
them?

A. There would be an awful lot of them. The majority of them.

Q. Describe these spots to the committee 1

A. Well, there would be little red spots and large red spots, dark purple spots, big
spots as big as your hand in places on the hams and backs and in places where you could'nt
cut them out. When on the necks and bellies that I could cut them out, I did take them
out.

Q. And that was known to Mr. Warner 1
A. He was there all the time.

Q Did he discus* that with you ?

A. He would say, " You can't get that fellow fixed up. You had better burn him. "

Q. That was done in how many instances ?

A. I can't just tell how many. Several, anyhow.

Q, Do you know anything about the inspection of hogs in the storage room ?
A. There was no hogs inspected while I was there.

Q. Were you there at all ?

A. I went there on Tuesday night at the last load that was delivered.

Q. Was Dr. Sweetapple there 1
A. I do not know him.

At St. John's request, Dr. Sweetapple, who was in the room stood up, but witness
did not recognise him

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did Mr. Hunter give you any instructions about the killing and dressing?
A. Only what I have stated.

Q. Or Mr. Warner, or Mr. Noxon, or any of these men at all ?
A. I have never met Mr. Noxon.

Q. Have you had any conversation at all during the killing or since, with them 1
A. I had a conversation with Mr. Hunter about these pigs ?

Q. Have you had any with Noxon ?
A. I never met him.

Q. With Mr. Warner ?
A. No, sir.

<^. What was the nature of your conversation with Mr. Hunter ?

A. I went to Mr. Hunter in the cattle market and told him there was some parties
after me to get information with regard to the killing of the hogs.

Q. What did he say ?

A. If I am to speak it out as plain as I got it from him ?

Q. Certainly.

A. He said, " Let them go to hell."

Q. Was that all the conversation you had ?

A. I said I can't tell them that, and he says, " Don't tell them anything. If he
asks you very hard, tell them there was an inspector there." I never said I would tell
them that or anything of the kind. Before I went away, I said, " What will I do ?" and
he says, " Don't tell them anything."

By Mr. STRATTON. — Q. Do you swear that Hunter told you not to tell anything ?
A. I swear that.

Q. Positively?
A. Yes.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Did you have any other conversation about it ?
A. I met him again.

Q. When?

A. A short time afterwards — a week or two afterwards. And he asked me if I had
seen those parties again and I said no.

Q When did that conversation take place ?
A. I can't tell you the day.

Q. Now, Mr. Newton, I ask' you as an experienced butcher of fifteen or sixteen
years, was there any one hog of that ninety-seven that was taken to the Central Prison
that was fit for food ?

A. I would not like to eat them.

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Had you any knowledge that they were being prepared for food ?
A. I didn;c know anything about it.

Q When did you first learn that they were killed for food 1
A. On Monday night.

Q How did you hear 1

A. Dunn asked me to save the caul fat. 1 did so and put it in the basket and told
him I didn't like the looks of it. That there was something wrong and I didn't like the
looks of that fat. In the evening, Warner told me that the hogs had cholera and not to
use that fat. I told him I was saving it for Dunn, and I told Dunn what Warner said.
He took it home and buried it, I believe, afterwards.

Q. What knowledge have you got as to taking the pigs away from the piggery to the
Central Prison ?

A. My brother took them there.

Q. Did he take them as fast as you cleaned and dressed them ?
A. Yes.

Q At night, or how did you arrange ifc 1

A. We took all the hogs that were dressed away at night.

Q. What instructions did you get ?

A. Mr. Hunter told me to take away all the hogs we had dressed to the Central
Prison when 1 got through at night.

Dr. ANDREW SMITH, sworn :

Examined by Mr. GABROW. — Q. You are Prof. Smith, veterinary surgeon and head
of the Ontario Veterinary College 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Describe in your own words all that you know of your own knowledge rf this
matter.

A. On July llth, 1896, I was requested by Mr. Hunter, through trn 'phone, to visit
the Humber piggery, as a number of pigs had died ard several were sick. I went there
immediately, and Dr. Sweetapple accompanied me.

Q Who is Dr. Sweetapple 1

A. He is one of my assistants. The teacher on diseases of cattle and swine, etc., in
the Veterinary College.

I made a carrful examination of the hogs that w« re sick, and also ascertained that a
number had died from June 4th up till that date. There were two dead pig*, and we
made a very careful post mortem examination of them and also killed one sick pijj and
made a careful examination of it, and from the symptoms presented we came to the con-
clusion that it was hog cholera. 1 then conferred with Mr. Warner, who is superintendent,
and explained to him what I thought was best to do in the matter. There were some ten
or twelve sick hogs at the time I made my inspection, not more than twelve as far as I
could see.

By Mr. McPnERSON. — Q. In how many pens'?

A. I can'c tell exactly, but there were about 220 altogether, I should say.

61 Victoria. Appennix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. HAYCOCK. — Q. Were the ten or twelve sick ones in different pens or in one
particular pen ?

A. They were in two or three different pens. The hogs affected were mostly young
and small hogs. The older hogs were apparently healthy ; that is a characteristic. It
takes the small and weak hogs first, the larger animals resisting.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. The larger hogs do not show it as readily ?
A They do not take it.

Q. What conclusion did you reach ?

A. We came to the conclusion that it would be better to destroy all the hogs. I
must explain. I did not go at first as Government inspector, but as a veterinary surgeon.
I talked the matter over with Mr. Warner and Mr. Hunter, and ordered that the weakly
animals and those that were sick were to be burned, and those healthy animals, if there
was no evidence of disease, were to be used for food, as is always done everywhere.

By Mr. GARROW. — Q. You have some official position ?

A. I am inspector for Ontario under the Dominion Government.

Q. In what capacity were you speaking when you gave these instructions ?
A. As an inspector.

Q. You made an examination first as a veterinary 1

A. Yea. The position I have held for a number of years is this. If you see dis-
ease you want to tajie the best means to get rid of it.

Ey Mr. McPnERSON. — Q. Did you quarantine the stable at that time ?

A. Yes. I explained what was best to be done. They were a fine lot of hogs, and
in a very fine condition, and most of them were not diseased.

Q. On what date?
A. July llth.

Q By the 13th would the whole drove be so thoroughly diseased as this last witness
speaks of ?

A. No, sir. I do not know of anything in my experience like it. There were not
over twelve hogs diseased the day we were there.

By Mr. GARROW. — What time in the day would it be when you were there ?
A. On the forenoon of the llth.

Q. After death, what are the post mortem symptoms ?

A. Ulcers in the bowels, principally in that portion of the bowels called coecum

Q The last witness described the entrails as being extremely red and inflamed.

A. That is no unusual thing. Generally the disease is confined to one part of the
large intestine, and that presents peculiar ulcers characteristic of the disease. It is a
disease that produces ulcers in some cases.

Q. Would it develop round the head and neck ?
A. Not always.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q, It is not a disease that shows itself externally ?

A. Not as ulcers ; sometimes it shows redness in some cases.

Q. What arrangements did you make for the inspection ?

A. I conferred with Mr. Hunter and Mr. Warner, and it was arranged that the
whole hogs would be slaughtered. Those in good condition were to be butchered, and if
they looked well they were to be brought to the Central Prison, as there is cold storage
there, and inspected, and if, after inspection, they were found fit for food, they were to be
used.

Q. Who was to inspect them ?
A. Dr. Sweetapple.

Q. Do you know if that was afterwards done ?

A. Yes. Dr. Sweetapple inspected most of the hogs. He reported to me that be
inspected a good many, but that the next day when he went up the remainder had been
taken out. A few he did not see.

Q. But as far as the arrangements with the Government officials were concerned,
they were to be taken there for inspection ?

A.. Yes.

Q. And you say he did inspect them 1
A. All but a few.

Q. You made some report concerning what you had done in the matter?

A. I reported to the Dominion Government at the time, a few days afterwards. Dr.
Sweetapple visited the piggery on the 15th and found that every animal had been
destroyed with the exception of one boar. The pens were being torn down, and they
they were disinfecting the place thoroughly.

Q. You made a written report of what you had done to this Government ?
A. No, not to this Government ; it was all through Mr. Hunter.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS — Q. You made a report at the time in your official capacity to
the Dominion Government 1

A. To the Dominion Government.

Q. Then, when this matter came up recently here, not finding any written report
here, as you were not bound to /eport to us, I asked the inspector to call upon you, and
to ask you to put in writing what you remembered about the case. Is this your state-
ment 1

' A. Yes.

Hon. Mr. DAVIS — I would like to have this entered upon the Journals of the House.
Objection raised by Mr. St. John and Mr. Matheson.

Examination of witness continued by Hon. Mr. DAVIS :

Q. Do you swear that i* the written report you have made to us ?

A. Yes.

Mr. ST. JOHN. — That is no report at all.

(>1 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Hon Mr. DAVIS. — Am I within my rights as a member of this Committee to ask
Dr. Smith this question ?

The CHAIRMAN. — Go on.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS — Prof. Smith, is that your written report to the Department
of a few days ago 1
A. It is.

Q. The facts you state there are correct ?
A. Yep.

The report was then put in and read by the chairman as follows :

DOMINION OF CANADA,

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE,

OFFICE OF GOVERNMENT VETERINARY INSPECTOR
FOR PROVINCE OF ONTARIO,

TORONTO, December 21st, 1897.
ANDREW SMITH, F.R.C.V.S.,

Veterinary College, 42 Temperance street.

SIR, — On July llth 1896, I was requested to visit the Humber piggery, as some
hogs had died and several were sick. I went there immediately and found as stated
that several hogs had died and ten or twelve were sick. I made a careful examina-
tion of all the hogs ; and also made a post mortem examination of the carcases of two
that had died, and also of the carcase of one sick hog that I caused to be kilhd.

From the symptoms exhibited by the sick hogs, and the post mortem appearances
of the dead animals, 1 found the disease to be " hog cholera."

I conferred with the superintendent as what was best to be done in the matter.
I also spoke to Mr. Hunter by 'phone, and recommended immediate slaughter of all
the hogs, the carcases of the diseased to be disposed of by burning, and the whole
buildings to be thoroughly cleansed and disinfected.

There were many of the hogs in an excellent condition, and apparently free from
disease ; and such animals might be butchered and used for food if, on inspection after
butchering, no evidence of disease could be found. The arrangements were that the
healthy carcases were to be brought to the cold storage room at Central Prison for
inspection. On July 13tb, Mr. Sweetapple, veterinary surgeon, went to Central Prison
and inspected a large number ot the carcases and found no evidence of disease. There
were a tew more to be brought in that night and Mr. Sweetapple again went there on
Tuesday morning, the 14th, to inspect the remainder, but they were removed ear)y in
the morning.

I may state that Mr. Sweetapple accompanied me to the Humber piggery on the
llth, and assisted in the examination.

1 believe the superintendent of the piggery and Mr. Hunter carried out the arrange-
ments in an efficient manner.

On July 15th, Mr. Sweetapple again visited the piggery and found all animals had
been slaughtered with the exception of one boar ; the pens were being torn down, and
the whole premises were being disinfected.

I am, Sir,

Your obedient servant,

JAMLS NOXON, ESQ., ANDREW SMITH.

Inepc otor.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. DAVIS. — Q. When you visited the piggery in the first instance it was as a
veterinary surgeon, and, after you found hog cholera there, you assumed the responsi-
bility of the whole inspection as Dominion inspector?

A. Yes.

Q. You swear that 1
A. Yes.

Q. You gave instructions to Warner and Hunter as to what was best to be done
with the hogs 1

A. Yes.

Q Did you understand that the instructions were that they were all to be destroyed
on the premises in the first place ?

A. Yea.

Q. And those that showed signs of disease were to be burned 1

A. Yes, and those animals that were too small and were not in condition.

Q. And a number of hogs that were in conditidn for food could be sent down
to the cold storage at the Central Prison, and if, after inspection, there was no evidence
of disease, they were to be sold for food ?

A. Yes.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. But you know nothing about the piggery?
A. It doesn't matter about that ; it's the cold storage.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS. — Q. In your official capacity as inspector you believed these
actions to be carried out ?

A. I do. I have every confidence in these gentlemen.

Q. In your official capacity you assumed the responsibility of giving instructions
at the piggery ?

A. Yes.

Q. You realised your responsibility and gave instructions 1

A V^«

A. Yes.

By Mr. STRATTON. — Q. Did you inspect the carcases to see whether they were fit
for use 1

A. Mr. Sweetapple did that. I have stated that I ordered that the animals shoul \
be slaughtered, and such as were in good condition and not diseased were to be used
for food.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS. — Q. Did you take the same course with respect to hog cholera
at the llumber piggery as you did at other places under your jurisdiction ?

A. I think we had them slaughtered more readily there and more quickly than any-
where else. I conferred with Mr. Hunter on the matter, and told him what to do. and
I do not believe there was any deception. I am a fair judge of human nature, and
Warner and Hunter are men in whom I would put confidence.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Do you remember if, after the hogs were placed in cold storage, Hunter requested
you to have them inspected there ?

A. That was the arrangement with Hunter that the carcasf s should be brought
there to be inspected.

Q. Dr. Sweetapple is one of your assistants 1

A. 5fes. He teaches on diseases of cattle, swine and all those things in the College.

Q. Did you consider Dr. Sweetapple a competent man to inspect the hogs after they
were killed 1

A I did, and have every confidence that he is a fit man to say whether they were
fit for food or not.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. What does that mean, when the Hon. Minister asks you if you realised your
responsibility ?

A. Oh, I don't know.

Q. As a matter of fact, Doctor, you said these pigs had cholera ?
A. Y"es. Ten or twelve of them.

Q. Many had already died before you inspected ?
A. A number had died.

Q. You don't know how many 1
A. Pretty nearly.

Q. How many ?

A. I think about forty.

Q. Of cholera.
A. I don't know.

Q. Well, what would you gay ?

A- I presume so from the character of the disease.

Q. How many did you see dead 1
A. Two.

Q Having learned that forty hogs out of 304 had died, and you found some in a
dying coi dition and some dead, have you any doubt but cholera was the cause of the
death of those forty hogs 1

A. I don't know about that. I expect it was.

Q. Have you any doubt 1
A, I believe it was.

Q. And you found how many dead ?
A. Two.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q How many did you find sick 1
A. Ten or twelve.

Q Did you inspect any of the others 1
A. Yes.

Q. How many ?

A. We looked them all over, the same as we inspected any others. That's the only
way we can inspect them, by just looking at them.

Q. How long were you there altogether 1
A. Two hours.

Q. Having learned that forty hogs had died out of a herd of 304, that two were dead
at inspection and twelve were sick, were you prepared to say that all the rest of that herd,
when you went there, were in a perfectly sound condition ?

A. From the peculiarity of that disease, you cannot say, without seeing them, how
many of the remaining hogs were or were not diseased in the intestines. I believe that
all those fine adult hogs in good condition appeared healthy. The peculiarity of the dis-
ease is that possibly not more than forty per cent, will become affected in their health.

Q. But you cannot give any positive statement that they were not infected with

disease ?

A. As much as it's possible to do with a living animal, I can.

Q. But you can'c give any idea ?

A. No. It's not necessary to kill all the animals to ascertain whether they are
diseased.

Q But you can't tell whether they have disease or not 1
A. I do not believe they have it.

Q From the first stages of the disease you cannot tell whether all these hogs were
perfectly sound or not ?

A. What I saw were apparently sound.

Q. You know nothing of the condition of these hogs on the Monday morning after
inspection 1

A. No.

Q. Why did you order them to bill them all ?

A. Because there is a danger of infection. Whenever the disease breaks out in a
herd, they are generally slaughtered immediately, with a view to preventing that disease
from spreading to any other place.

Q. Was it right for them to have kept one hog alive ? »
A. I cannot say that hog was diseased.

Q. lam going to ask you another question. Was this the first or second outbreak
in the county of York 1

A. No. The first was in Markham near Richmond Hill.

6J Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-H

Q. It was the first outbreak in the west 1
A. Yes.

Q After inspecting Ihese hogs, and finding that the number had died- and were sick,
you made no further inspection ? Your duty was done ?

A. I made no further inspection.

Q If your instructions were closely carried out, would Hunter or Warner be justi-
fied in having hogs with diseased entrails killed and dressed and sent to the Central
prison ?

A. No, I don't think they would.

Q. Much less a hog in a dying condition 1
A. No, I don't think they would.

Q Much less hogs where pieces of diseased meat were cut out ?
A . Of course not, if there is any evidence of disease.

Q. What was your report to the Dominion Government ?

A. That we had found disease and that active steps had been taken to suppress it ;
that a number of animals had been slaughtered and those in good condition had been used
for food.

Q. Did Dr. Sweetapple report that he had made an inspection, and when ?
A. On Monday afternoon, I think.

Q How many hogs were there?
A. I do not know.

Q He did not make any inspection of those hogs which it had been given in evidence
were in a much worse condition of the second day ?

A. I don't know. He went the next day.

Q. And the hogs that came on the second day were not inspected by you at all ?
A . I think you had better let Dr. Sweetapple explain that.

Mr. GARROW objected to the line of cross examination.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Since the Provincial Secretary desires to throw the whole
responsibility on you, what report did Dr. Sweetapple make to you ?

Mr. GARROW renewed his objection.

By Mr. ST. JOHN.— Q. What did Dr. Sweetapple report to you. On the basis of
the report Dr. Smith has admitted in his report that certain things were based on the
statement of Dr. Sweetapple. He says : " I may state that Mr. Sweetapple accompanied
me to the Humber piggery on the 1 Ith and assisted in the examination/' and " on July
15th Mr. Sweetapple again visited the piggery and found all animals had been slaughtered
with the exception of one boar ; the pens were being torn down and the whole premises
were being disinfected." That is based upon the report of Dr. Sweetapple to you i

A. Based upon what he said to me ? Yes. I didn't have a written report ; that i»
in effect what he said to me.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No, 1.) 1897-8

Q. You liad made arrangements for Sweetapple to inspect these hogs 1
A. Yes.

Q. I want now to ask you a square question and to consider it and the full bearing
and responsibility -of it. Do you assume the responsibility for the condition of the hogs
when the Government removed all the hogs away and sold them, and didn't give Mr.
Sweetapple an opportunity of inspecting all the hogs killed on the second day and a part
of the hogs killed on the first day 1

A. I assume the responsibility of those hogs that Mr. Sweetapple inspected.

Q. Do you assume any responsibility for the hogs that he did not inspect 1
A. You need nob ask me such a question.

Q I do ask it. Do you assume any responsibility 1
A. No, I do not.

Q. Then you did not assume any responsibility where the Government did not carry
out your instructions r(

A. No.

Q. And not to give you an opportunity of inspection 1 Your instructions were that
all the hogs were to be inspected ?

A. That was the arrangement.

Q. Dr. Sweetapple did not inspect all the hogs 7
A. No, a few he did not.

Q. You took no responsibility for the hogs that were removed without your instruc-
tions ?

A. No. I may mention they were inspected by Harris. He is a pretty good judge

Q. This disease is a specific contagious fever of swine. It is propagated by contagion 1
A. Go on, I will explain afterwards.

Hon. Mr. DAVIS. — You had better put in the book altogether, Mr. St. John.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. It is poisonous ?

A. What book is that you are reading from ?

Q. A book written by Prof. James Law. He is a man of some repute ?

A Yes. What edition is that ? There is a good dea'. of change in the last ten or
fifteen years.

Q. This is the '92 edition. He says that the disease — the poison — will blow a half
a mile in the wind and is with difficulty destroyed. You do not take issue with that *\

A. I doubt about the half a mile business.

Q. You have never measured the distance, I suppose ? He makes the statement
that incubation ranges from three to fourteen days \

A. From four to twenty days.

18 J. 49

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. So that the hog that died on Monday would have a fairly good appearance on the
Saturday before, when in the warm weather three days may do it ?

A. The period of incubation is, I say, before the disease develops itself. The animal
does not die so suddenly, as a general thing.

Q. You have already said that in a few days the hog may die ?
A. No. The period in which the disease may develop itself.

Q. Two hogs were dead on Saturday, the 10th July. Can you tell me the appear-
ance these hogs had two days previous 1

A. No. But I have an idea of what they might be. That is a different thing.

Q. Then you are not prepared to say, doctor ? Hogs that were in a dying condition
on Monday or Tuesday, are you prepared to say what they would look like on Saturday
previous ^

A. Dying on Monday 1 Yes. I expect they would show the disease on Saturday,
if they were dying on Monday.

Q. If any hog had diseased entrails when they were being dressed, would you have
allowed them, with a knowledge of that, to have been cleaned for human food ?

A. No.

By Mr. AULD. — Q. Taking these 263 hogs that were there, what per centage of
those grown hogs would never have died at all ?

A. Perhaps fifty per cent.

By Mr. GERMAN. — Q. You saw the hogs there Saturday 1 You have heard what
this young man's evidence was here before the Committee to day. Speaking from a
professional point of view, do you think it possible, from your knowledge of the con-
dition of the hogs on Saturday, that they should have exhibited the same conditions as
this young man says they did on Monday ?

A. No, sir. I do not think it is possible. I think he is mistaken altogether.

By Mr. GARROW. — Q You say, you told Mr. Auld, that a certain proportion would
recover ; is there also a certain proportion in every herd that never take the disease at
all?

A. Yes.

Q. What proportion?

A. Varying ; from thirty-five to fifty or sixty per cent, never take the disease at all.

Q. And from thirty to fifty per cent, of those which take the disease recover from it?
A. Yes.

By Mr. AULD. — Q. Do you know of an instance in Essex county where there was
only a running board fence between the farms, and where the hogs on one side of the
fence had the disease, and those on the other side did not take it at all ?

A, I have heard of it.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — You are aware that we had two other herds of hogs where hog
cholera existed — the one of George Everest in Davisville, and one of Moodey of St. Clair
and Dufferin, I think. What was done with their respective hogs ?

A. They were all slaughtered.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q And burned 1
A. Yes.

Q. Have you any other instances of cholera in this Province where they have been
allowed to kill part- of the hogs and use them for human food 1

A. Yes.

Q. Have they been allowed in the county of York — in the Markham case 1
A. They were all young pigs,

Q. But he had some large pigs, 700 pounds weight 1
A. He had all small pigs except a breeding sow.

Q. Everist tells me that some of them were 700 1
A. Oh, that's pretty big hogs.

Q. What condition would those twelve hogs be in on Monday or Taesday that you
found sick ?

A. I expect that the symptoms would be developed to a greater extent.

Q. Would they be fit to be cleaned and dressed 1
A. No.

Q. Do you know whether any of these twelve hogs were killed or dressed ?
A. No.

By Hon. Mr. HARCOURT. — Q. Do you know that these twelve were burned 1
A. No, I do not know.

By Mr. MBACHAM. — Q. Taken for granted the statement by the first witness to be
true, that the pigs practically all had inflamed entrails, would not you, if asked to give
an opinion, based on that one point, that every animal had inflamed entrails had cholera 1

A. I cannot believe that it would be true that all of them had inflamed entrailsi
according to my experience of the disease.

Q. If you had never been there at all, and had been brought here in perfect ignor-
ance, would you believe that all these pigs had cholera from the description given ?

A. No.

By. Mr. WILLOUGHBY.— Q. Would they be fit for food 1

A. Now you are going into the question of " fit for food." If you take England,
for instance, they use them there after they are inspected.

By Mr. MEACHAM. — Q. Leaving out the question of cholera, supposing we take the
evidence of the butcher, would you consider that they were fit for food, apart from the
question of cholera altogether ?

A. Repeat the question, please.

The question was repeated.

A. The result of some disease, you mean 1

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. No matter what it was the result of.

A. I would think not, but you must allow me to qualify this a little. It would be
impossible to have so many hogs suffering in this way ; it must be from poison or some-
thing of that kind. It is against all experience of this disease.

By Mr. KIDD. — Q. You state that when you went there forty had died and twelve
were dying. You say that forty had died before you went there to make the examina-
tion, and twelve were dying.

A. They were sick ; I did not say they were dying.

Q. Did you ever know that hogs that had cholera got better ?
A. Some animals recover from it.

Q. There were 300 hogs to be examined, and you made this examination in two
hours.

A. Yes.

Q. Do you mean to tell the Committee that you can make a thorough examination,
taking into consideration the seriousness of the case, of almost 250 hogs ; that you can,
in fact, personally look once at each of that number of hogs in two hours 1

A. Yes. There were only about 220.

Q. That two hours was sufficient to make a thorough examination ?
A. Yes.

Q. Have you ever, as Dominion Government inspector, examined any other pens in
the Province of Ontario ?

A. Yes.

Q. Have you allowed them the privilege of slaughtering and marketing in similar

cases ?

A. In one or two cases we did, where the animals were apparently healthy, and it
has been done for years by other inspectors, as well as by myself.

30th December, 1897.
Mr. W. T. HARRIS, sworn :

Examined by the Hon. Mr. DAYIS. — Q. What is your business ?
A. Dealer in dressed hogs.

Q. Wholesale or retail ?
A. Wholesale.

Q. Do you remember purchasing some hogs from the Humber piggery in 1896 ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who arranged with you for the purchase of these hogs ?
A. Mr. Hunter.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.)' 1897-8

Q. Did he explain to you anything about the killing of the hogs there ?

A. No. Not as I understood it at the time. Only that the hogs were to be
slaughtered.

Q, Where did' you get the hogs ?

A. From the Central Prison chill rooms.

Q. Did you know anything as to the character of the hogs ; that is, their condition 1
A. I went up to examine the hogs and bought the hogs that way.

Q. You examined them all ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are a practical man ?

A. I should think so. I handle 500 dressed hogs a week, the year round.

Q. You would be able to detect anything wrong with the hogs 1
A. If there was anything seriously wrong.

Q. Were there pieces cut out of them ?

A. No, sir. I thoroughly examined every hog.

Q. No evidence of any disease ?

A. No evidence at all ; of course there was little blood running down some of the hogs?

Q. From your experience as a large dealer, do you say these hogs were fit for food .
A. 1 would not be afraid to eat any piece of the hogs I handled there.

Q. From your experience as a dealer, you would be prepared to eat yourself any of
those hogs you bought at the cold storage rooms of the Central Prison 1

A. Yes, sir. Besides that, we had not one word of complaint. They all went into
our sale rooms and we sold them, and had no complaint at all from anybody. It's a
pretty hard thing to suit a lot of butchers. We supply the butcher trade. They come
down and pick their hogs out of the sale room. They took what they liked, and we
had no complaint.

Q. You sell to butchers ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And the butchers purchasing from you are all practical men 1

A. Yes, sir. They are supposed to be.

•

Q. How many hogs were there 1
A. Ninety-seven.

Q. Do you remember the time, as near as you can, that you purchased them ?
A. I believe it was on the 15th July, 1896. I did not fetch my book with me. I
would not be quite positive to two or three days either way.

Q. Do you remember the price you paid for them ?

A. The price netted about 5J cents, I should think. There were eight or ten heavy
hogs which brought the price down.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you pay the market price for them 1

A. Yes, sir. In the summer time we kill many ourselves, because the farmers do
not like handling them because of the hot weather.

Q. Who made the bargain with you ?

A. Mr. Hunter, I dealt with. That's the only man I bad any connection with at all.

Q. Do you know of your personal knowledge whether they were insjDfcted at the
storage room by anybody ?

A. No, I do not know of any inspection by anybody.

Q. But you are sure you examined every hog 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And they were all fit for food ?
A. Certainly.

Q And you would eat any one of them yourself 1
A. Certainly.

Q. When you placed these in your own storage room, had you any other hogs there?

A. That I would not be sure of. There might be ten or twenty hogs in the stalls
at the time. Farmers' hogs coming in. I would not be sure. 1 did not take notice
particularly that day.

Q. Did you know or find out or hear at any time that there was hog cholera at the
piggery 1

A. At a later date I heard from several parties but I never took any notice ; we did
not expect anything wrong from that place. We bought the hogs as fit for food, and
any butcher would say they were.

By Mr. GARROW. — Q. Are you personally able to say that you handled every hog?

A. Every one of them I saw weighed and lifted on the waggon by the prisoners. I
stayed there and saw every hog weighed.

Q. Did you sell them yourself to the other butchers ?

A. No, I did not myself. Our man at the storage room sold them.

By Mr. FIELD. — Q. You say you handle 500 a week ?
A. About 500 a week all the year round.

By Mr. HAYCOCK. — Q. You buy a large.number of live hogs 1
A. That is my brother.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS — Q. I would like to ask you again, for fear there should be any
doubt on this point. You are perfectly sure that there were no hogs there with pieces
cut out of them ?

A. I examined every one of them personally, and there were none cut out. Cer-
tainly none would buy a hog if there were pieces cut out of it. I have never seen hogs
cut out at any time. There might be bruises on them, but they never cut that out. I
am certain there was nothing cut out of them. They were laid on the public market as
they came down on the waggon the first thing in the market.

61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Oan you fix the date of the purchase of these hogs'?

A, T should certainly say about the 15th of the month. It was on the Wednesday.
1 am not sure of that.

Q. Have you no record 1

A. We have. But I haven't it here.

Q I want you to produce that.
A. Certainly.

Q. When did you see Hunter to purchase these hogs ? How many days before you
started to cart away the hogs elapsed from the time that you agreed to buy them ?

A. I bought the hogs on Tuesday, and Wednesday morning I went up and lifted
them, I believe it was.

Q, So that you inspected all the hogs on Tuesday ?

A. No, sir. I looked at a few of them, but they were not all there.

Q. 'I think you had better get your dates. Will you be able, also, to get the evi-
dence of those men to whom you sold the pork ?

A. No, I have no track of that at all.

Q You have no trace in your books showing to whom you sold that pork or any
part of it ?

A. Certainly. I might pick out a few hogs here and there.

Q. You can identify some of those hogs as sold to any particular purchaser 1
A. I can produce the sale book and show the hogs I Bold that week.

Q. Will you go and get your book now 1 How long will it take you ?

A. Is there any possibility of laying this over for a little while? I am very busy
and my business is of importance.

Q. At any time had you any intimation that there was anything wrong with these
hogs?

A. Not previous to the delivery.

Q. Up till the time you received the hogs and sold them, you had no notice or sus-
picion that there was anything wrong ?

A. No.

By Mr. GARROW — Q. And you have had no complaint since then 1

A. No complaint since then.

Mr. Harris was requested to produce his book on Wednesday next.

PROFESSOR CHARLES H. SWEETAPPLE, sworn :

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS. — Q. You are a veterinary surgeon, Mr. Sweetapple ?
A. I am.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You are inspector under Dr. Smith 1

A. 1 have acted as Dominion inspector for him frequently, at his request, and at
the request of the Dominion Government. Let me explain, please. I do noc understand
that I went to this case in question in consequence of instructions from the Dominion
Government. I went at the request of Dr. Smith.

Q. Exactly, And Dr. Smith, as Dominion inspector, swore that he took charge of
that institution the moment he found cholera there.

A. I have acted as Dominion inspector for him on this and other occasions within
the last three months.

Q. Kindly state your recollection of your visit to the piggery with Prof. Smith.

A. We went on the llth July. I recollect that being the day in consequence of
there being an Orange procession that day in Toronto, and we were stopped on the cars
coming back by the procession meeting us on the corner of Dufferin street.

Q. What did you do there ?

A. We found two dead hogs, on which we made a post mortem examination, and
we also killed one that was sick and found it was undoubtedly hog cholera. There was
a number of hogs there, and of that number there would be about, roughly speaking, a
dozen that were sick.

Q. Out of this great number you found, as near as you could judge, there were
about a dozen sick ?

A. There might have been more affected that did not show evidences of disease. In
hog cholera — I will give you just a word or two here in connection with hog cholera— it
may come on in a very acute form and cause the animal's death in a very few dayp, and
it may be chronic and linger on for a length of time, and in some cases the animals may
recover. There is the acute, sub acute and chronic form.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. And very chronic 1

A. Very chronic — put it in that way if you like. Instructions were given that the
whole herd was to be destroyed, and the healthy animals might be used for food and the
others burned. Proper disinfectant measures were to be used, and all that were not
healthy, and that showed evidences of disease after butchering, were to be burned. Those
that showed no evidence of disease were to be marketed, and I had instructions from Dr.
Smith to go to the cold storage house at the Central Prison and inspect those that were
brought up. I went at the beginning of the week and inspected a number. I found no
evidences of disease whatever upon any one, and I looked over them carefully, nor any
evidence of mutilation of the carcasses with a view of hiding any disease that might
exist. There was nothing cut away on those I saw. In connection with the inspection
of butchers' meat, there are several different conditions to be looked at. The blood must
be properly drained from the body, or 1 would have objected to these because I knew
they were coming from a suspicious herd. There are several other conditions of hog
cholera, A medical practitioner would call it rigor mortis ; bloodstains in the carcass and
spots or stains in the abdominal cavity. If these had been removed or scraped oft I
would have suspected something and would have objected to the carcass. They were
entire and intact.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS, — Q Have you any idea of how many you examined ?

A. I have not any note of it, but it was quite a large number. There would not be
100, but certainly over fifty, perhaps between seventy-five and 100, that I examined.
That is only a rough guess. I examined them carefully, as I am accustomed to examine
carcasses for the Oity Board of Health for Toronto, for Mr. Awde or Dr. Sheard. Where
Mr Awde objects to pass any meat, I do a good deal of inspection for the city.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. And having examined every hog in the cold storage at the time you were there,
you state that they were all perfectly sound and fit for food, and somewhere between
seventy and 100 1

A. Certainly.

By Mr. ST. JOHN.— Q. You say nearly 100 1

A. I will not say the exact number, but I she uld think it is that, roughly.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS. — Q. Is that your statement, Mr. Sweetapple 1
A. Yes.

By Mr. ST. JOHW. — When was it made ?
A. A few days ago.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS. — Q. Is that statement correct ]
A. Certainly.

Q. And you swear to it ?
A. Certainly. It is correct.

Q. According to your judgment and experience as an inspector, if some man swore
that every hog of those you saw in the Central Prison was diseased, what would you say ?

A. I would stick to my own evidence. It makes no difference what another man
said, no matter who the man was.

By Mr. GARROW. — Q. Were you in this matter from the beginning — from the time
Dr. Smith was instructed to take charge 1

A. I was with him.

Q. And I suppose you felt that the whole responsibility rested upon your shoulders,
*first, to see that the disease did not spread, and secondly, that no harm came from those
that were slaughtered there ?

A. Certainly.

Q. It was your duty 1
A. Certainly.

Q You were not trying to protect the Government t
A. Not at all.

Q. Not to protect the Government ?

A. Certainly not. In fact I felt that there was less fear of deception as it is no t
beneficial to any party or the Government to hide anything or to sell any diseased meat;
that was the view I took.

Q. Were you acting at all for the Government or for Dr. Smith 1
A. I was acting for Dr. Smith.

By. Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Does Dr. Smith act for the Dominion Government in the
question of dressed meat ?

A I would rather he would reply to your question for himself.

61 Victoria, Appendix (No 1.) 1897-8

<^. I ask you.

A. I know nothing about Dr. Smith in that way.

Q. When you have acted for Dr. Smith or for the Dominion Government, it was
only with respect to live animals 1

A. I cannot think of any case specially where we have had to deal with carcases
for the Dominion Government.

Q. Just the live animals ?

A. Yes. But I have inspected in the market here.

Q. But I am speaking of the Dominion Government. Do not confuse this with
what you did for the city of Toronto. Are you prepared to say that you examined dead
meat acting for the Dominion Government 1

A. I am not aware that either Dr. Smith or myself have done so for the Dominion
Government. I am not aware of it, you understand. I can't say that he did not.

By Mr, GARROW.— Q. In this case, you did examine the animals alive ?

A. Yes. We did not make a careful examination. You see, we detected hog
cholera in the herd, and did not deem it necessary to examine everyone very closely,
having detected the disease.

Q. Then in examining the live animals and pronouncing it hog cholera, you had
done your duty for the Dominion Government ?

A. I did not pronounce all the animals infected with hog cholera. I pronounced
many of them as being healthy and sound. There were some that had disease. I was
acting simply for Dr. Smith.

Q. But Dr. Smith ordered that all the hogs should be destroyed 1
A. That the disease should be stamped out,

Q. Did you not say that all the hogs should be destroyed 1
A. No, killed.

Q. You went there on Monday, the 13th 1
A. I believe so.

Q. Do you not know 1

A. No, I won't swear at this distance of time. I can only be certain as to the
Saturday.

Q. Then I will put it this way — you were there on the first day of the killing 1
A. I won't be certain about that.

Q. Then why did you state in this writing that " On Monday the 1 3th I went to
the cold storage room at the Central Prison." Is that true or not?

A. I certainly believe that is the day. It was the beginning of the week, and I
believe it was on Monday.

Q. Were all the hogs killed and delivered there at the time you inspected ?
A. No. They were not.

(Jl Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Then they were not all killed and dressed at the time you were there 1
A. They might have been killed, but they were not all there.

Q. Who gave you that date, the 13th July ?

A. I think I had that from some notes or memoranda.

Q. Where is the memorandum ?
A. I do not know that I have any.

Q. And where did you get that date 1

A. It is only approximate — that is the day. I do not think the animals were all
killed when I went there.

Q. Did you not know they were not all killed when you went there ?
A I was told that there were more to come up.

Q. Who told you 1

A. The parties about the cold storage.

Q. Who were those parties ?
A. I do not know.

Q. When you were there on inspection, was not Charles Moore the butcher at the
prison there'?

A. I do not know. There were people there I never saw before, and I do not
know them.

Q. Do you mean to tell me that, working for the Dominion Government as a veterin-
ary surgeon and being engaged on most important business in the interests of the health
of this Province, you cannot tell me the date you made an inspection of that herd of
hogs ?

A. No, that is to the best of my recollection. I have no memorandum to guide me.

Q. Has Dr. Smith ?

A. You had better ask him.

Q. Has he to your knowledge ?

A. I won't swear even to anything that might be put down in the bookkeeper's
books.

Q. Do you mean to tell me that you did not keep a memorandum of the Dominion
Government inspections 1

A. Yes.

Q. Where is the copy of your memorandum of this ?

A. I was not acting for the Dominion Government there, but for Dr. $mitb.

Q. When you went to the cold storage room to look at this dead meat you were not
acting for the Dominion Government 1
A. I was acting for Dr. Smith.

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. And not for the Dominion Government ?

A. I was acting for Dr. Smith, but did not have instructions from the Dominion
Government.

Q. Who asked you to write this report 1
A. Dr. Smith.

Q. Who was with him ?

A. I don't think anybody was with him. He was in his private office. He was
writing out his own report and asked me to write mine.

Q. There was no one else there ]
A. No.

Q. You have written a pretty full report here. What did you consult to prepare
this report 1

A. Nothing whatever.

Q. Did you submit your report to anyone when you wrote it out 1
A. I think I read it over to Dr. Smith.

Q. Nobody else ?
A. Certainty not.

Q. That is the first writing of your report 1

A. Yes. That is the original writing that I made in the office.

Q. You Duade no draft outside of that ?

A. I made a copy from it in the copy book. Look here ; to show you that this is the
draft I made, if I had copied it I would have written it on the front of the sheet whtre
the heading is.

Q. There is no interlineation on this document whatever 1
A. No.

Q. And when you wrote that, you believed it was Monday you made that inspection?
A. That is from my memory. I talked it over with Dr. Smith. I think I did.

Q. And you consulted his report for the date ?
A. No.

Q. You were writing it side by side ?
A. No. He made out his own first.

Q. Why did you not write out a report for the Provincial Government before
December, 1897 1

A. Because I was not asked for it.

Q. You learned that forty hogs had already been dead when you made an inspec-
tion at the piggery on the llth ?

A. Probably one or two more than forty had died within the month or six weeks-
something like that.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You do not know anything about the date ? Have you no report of that 1

A. No ; but T recollect going into Mr. Warner's house and looking over his reports.
He has a full account of the pigs that died, and the dates of their death.

him.

Q. Who has that record ?

A. I believe he has. As far as I can recollect he has, and you can find out from

Q. And the instructions were to kill and destroy every hog that showed signs of
disease ?

A. And use those that were not diseased.

Q. Never mind till I ask you that.
A. And use those that—

Q. Wait a moment. To kill and destroy.
A. No ; I did not say kill and destroy.

Mr. ST. JOHN contended that witness had said " kill and destroy " and the notes of
his examination were referred to.

Examination by Mr. ST. JOHN continued :

Q. I want to ask you, was it not your instructions to the Government to destroy.
As I understand the word " destroy " it is to get rid of a pig • to burn him. Were not
your instructions to destroy every hog there that showed signs of disease 1

A. To destroy in that sense meant to kill and to use, and is made plain immediately
afterwards, those that showed no evidence of disease.

Q. Oan you not answer a simple question 1
A. I am answering it.

Q. I ask you that question again.
A. And I repeat the reply.

Q. You will answer it " yes " or " no."

Hon. Mr. HARCOURT. — As a professional .man, the witness must be allowed to answer
that question in his own way.

Discussion followed and the examination of the witness was resumed by Mr. ST.
JOHN.

Q. Were the instructions to destroy and get away with every hog there that showed
signs of disease ?

A. Yes, certainly, to destroy those that were diseased.

Q. And if there were any hogs there that showed no evidence of disease, to prepare
those for food ?

A, Certainly ; that's right.

Q. How long were you at the inspection of those sound hogs there on Saturday,
12th July 1

A. About a couple of hours, probably.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Would you swear to an hour and a half ?

A. I think we were longer than that. I do not know.

Q. You won't swear it positively ?

A. I won't swear to the exact time. We were there long enough to find the hog
cholera.

Q. Will you swear positively that you were there an hour at the active work of
inspection 1

A. I should think we were there longer than an hour.

Q. You won't swear positively,

A. How in the world am I supposed to know everything that occurred two years
ago?

Q. I ask you a straight question. There is no trouble between you and me. Give
a straight answer.

A. What was the question ?

Question repeated.

A. To say that we were looking about there, T should say we were there longer.
For we made a careful post mortem of the two dead hogs and had another hog killed,
and made careful post mortem of that, and we looked over the other hogs and saw about
twelve that were infected.

Q. Would you swear that you were there an hour in the actual inspection ?
A. 1 should think there is no doubt about that.

Q. An hour and a half ?
A. I won't swear that.

Q. Will you swear now positively that you were there engaged in the actual inspec-
tion of the hogs at least one hour and a half ?

A. I should think we were.

Q. But will you swear positively ?
A. No, I won't.

Q. What did you do with the two dead hogs ?

A. We did not do anything with them. We left instructions to destroy the diseased
animals.

Q. Didn't you examine them ]
A. Certainly.

Q. Did you take one hog at a time ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Just describe what you did with the first dead hog, where you found him and
what you did with him 1

A. These two hogs were brought from somewhere into the open space in the grounds.
Outside the building we opened it up, and saw evidence of that one being diseased.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You opened it up, the two of you 1
A. Yes.

Q. What examination did you make of that hog ?

A. We opened up the ab lominal cavity in the first place, took out the whole of the
abdominal viscera, examined it carefully and found evidence of hog cholera there ; looked
at the lymphatic glands, found them engorged. We found sufficient evidence of hog
cholera there and opened up the thoracic cavity ; took out the lungs, saw them engorged
and hepatized. To prove that there was hepatization, we cut off a portion of the lung
and put it in a pail of water, where it sank. That was sufficient to show hepatization.
That was about the extent of the examination, and we did the same with the other hog.

Q. You made a thorough examination of that hog. How long did it take to make
that inspection ?

A. Probably ten minutes or a quarter of an hour.

Q. Not more ?

A. I do not think it would be necessary in that case ; sometimes it takes more time.

Q. Will you swear that you were not half an hour with the first hog 1
A. No, I won't.

Q. And the same time on the second hog 1
A. Perhaps it was a little quicker.

Q. And you jumped at some conclusions'?

A. No ; We do not jump at conclusions in matters of science 1

Q. And then you picked out a sick fellow ]
A. Yes.

Q. And you opened him, too 1 What did you find of him ]
A. The same evidence of hog cholera.

Q. And with the same careful inspection as in the other ?

A. I won't say that, as after finding it in one it was sufficient to stamp it as cholera.

Q. Did you pick out a sound hog and examine him 1
A. No.

Q. Why didn't you 1

A. Some of them might show evidence of disease and some might nob.

Q. Why did you not make an inspection of a healthy hog 1
A. What was the use of it 1

Q. Some might have been sound, and some not. Forty- two had died, twelve were
sick on the face of them, and yet you didn't see fit to examine one hog that appeared
sound ?

A. It was not necessary.

Q. Have you a large experience in the examination of hogs with cholera ?

A. Yes ; I have a great deal.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

— ^

Q. Have you ever opened up a hog with the disease without its intestines all out of
order 1

A. Well what do you mean by intestines out of order ?

Q. I am not talking about physic now. Have you ever opened up hogs that appeared
perfectly sound that on opening up his entrails were diseased 1

A. I have opened up hogs that I thought were healthy, and on opening them I have
said that hog is not healthy, and is not fit for market.

Q. Why did you not do that here?

A. There was no need for it. What was the necessity 1 I was to examine —

Mr. ST. JOHN : — Stop, I have your answer.

Mr. GARROW : — I protest. (To witness) — It is not necessary for you to stop.
WITNESS : — .1 have nothing to hide in connection with the matter at all.
Examination by Mr. ST. JOHN continued after some discussion : —

Q. You have opened up hogs which to your judgment appeared perfectly healthy and
which on being opened were proved to be diseased with cholera ?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. Do you want to modify that ?

A. I have seen cases which on dressing showed signs of disease.

Q. Then I will ask the next question. Here in this herd with forty-two hogs dead
and twelve sick out of 300, you did not consider it necessary, on your inspection, your
professional inspection, to open up an apparently healthy hog, and see whether he was
diseased or not1?

A. Certainly not. What was I to gain by it 1 f could not identify any of these
hogs after they were dressed. If I said that hog is healthy — the inspection I made was
to guard that afterwards. If we had made a thorough examination of all these hogs, I
could not identify them after being dressed.

Q. Will you give an explanation why you were not protected in making your
inspection of all these hogs ?

A. 1 hardly understand the question of protection. What protection did I require ?
On what grounds 1 From whom was it necessary for me to be protected 1

Q. You did not understand that you were there for the purpose of protecting the
public from diseased meats ?

A. Certainly.

Q. Why was it, will you tell me, that the Government did not make provision by
which you might inspect those ninety-seven hogs 1

A. I can't reply to that. I do not know.

Q. As a matter of fact you did not examine them all 1
A. No I did not.

€1 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. The hogs that you inspected in the pens within the big building were partly free
and partly diseased ?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you and Dr. Smith walk down through the centre • passage of that building
and look at every hog ?

A. Yes. I think we looked at them all.

Q. I want you to speak positively. Did you and Dr. Sn ith inspect every hog in
every pen in the building and every hog outside the building 1

A. Yes. We made a careful inspection. We went through the pens and detected
hog cholera there. That was sufficient to condemn the place as containing hog cholera.

Q. There is a door leading into each pen from the centre aisle 1
A. I do not know.

Q. There is a door leading out of each pen into the outer enclosure. Do you know
that?

A. I do not know.

Q. How were the hogs kept in the pens for you to inspect them inside the building 1

A. They were all over the place.

Q. Did you get into each pen and handle the hogs 1
A. We saw them from the passage.

Q. Then you did not make a careful inspection of each hog 1
A. There was nothing to be gained by it.

Q. So that while you were walking up and down the aisle you spotted twelve that
were sick, and concluded that the rest were sick 1

A. No. We did not conclude that the rest were sick. It was proved that the rest
were not sound because there was a great number burned after being butchered and

dressed.

Q. So that outside that twelve hogs that were sick, it was proved there were several
others that were not sound ?

A. Oh, yes, it was proved.

'
Q. A large number were actually burned 1

A. Yes. A large number were.

Q. Out of the 261 hogs that were left, exclusive of the forty-two that were dead,
164 were burned on Monday and Tuesday ?

A. Were they 1

Q. They were.

A. Yes. That's all right. I don't know that.

Q. I want to ask you, are you prepared to swear on your personal inspection, that
these 164 hogs that it was necessary to burn on Monday and Tuesday were not highly
diseased when you were there on Saturday, the llth July ?

A. I can't say anything about that.

19 J. 65

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You won't swear ?
A. No.

Q. So that you are not prepared to tell this Committee that you and Dr. Smith
made a careful inspection ?

A. Yes. That I am prepared to say that Dr. Smith and myself made a careful
inspection. We saw some that showed evidence of disease and there might probably be
more.

Q. Outside those that you opened and examined scientifically, you did not handle
any other hogs 1

A. No. I don't think we handled any.

Q. No caretaker or employee held any animals for you to examine carefully?

A. No. It was not necessary. It is very little use to hold hogs for examination.
It excites them and tends to increase their temperature and pulsations, and you can see
better without handling the hogs than by handling them.

Q. Who decided at the piggery during the slaughtering as to which hogs were good
and which were bad ?

A. I was not there. I know nothing about that. I suppose there would be some-
body.

Q. Did you not consider it was your duty or Dr. Smith's to be there.
A. It was my duty to do as I was told by Dr. Smith.

Q. So that you had no responsibility upon your shoulders ?
A. No.

Q. It has been given in evidence that out of these 261 hogs that remained it was
necessary to actually burn 164 of them. Are you prepared, as a' professional man, to
state, in the face of that fact, that these ninety-seven that remained were absolutely
sound ?

A. I know nothing about ninety-seven. All I can testify is as to those I saw, and
those that I saw were perfectly sound. That is, those at the cold storage house. I
would not have objected to use any one of them in my. own family.

Q. Are you a nervous man ?

A. Probably you excite me a little sometimes. "

Q. You are not naturally nervous 1 You are not afraid of a big undertaking 7

A. No, I am not. To put it a little plainer, will I acknowledge to cowardice, is
that what you mean ?

Q. When you opened hogs that appeared to be perfectly sound and healthy by sight
and appearance and diseased with cholera inside, did you dress those hogs ?

A. L recollect one somewhere where a man was dressing it and I objected. There
was an eruption of the skin and I said "You must not take that to market."

Q. You told me of a hog which appeared to be perfectly sound in the flesh ?
A. It would not be sound.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Listen to my question, please. The hogs that you have opened up that appeared
to be perfectly healthy, when you opened them up were found to be diseased in the intes-
tines. What would be the condition of the intestines of that hog ?

A. 1 merely mentioned that I would have objected to pass those.

Q. Exactly so, because you found the intestines diseased.

A. No. If I found any evidence of disease of any part. The case I alluded to was
where spots were in the skin and the serous membranes would show these spots also.
You would look for that, and that would be sufficient to condemn it.

Q. How deep does the disease go through the skin in the case of hog cholera ?

A. Tt might not be deep and might just go through the skin, merely superficial, and
that is all you would notice in the carcase.

Q. In some cases it might not show evidence in the skin ?

A. No. You would expect to see it in extravasations and spots of blood on the
serous membrane, and engorgement of the lymphatic glands, and ulcers on the lining
membrane of the intestines.

Q. The intestines are the first things infected by the disease 1
A. Are they?

Q. Now, don't ask me. You're a professional man. I am asking the question.
A. You made an assertion.

Q. Are not the intestines the first place showing signs of the disease ?
A. Not invariably.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that all the entrails, including the liver, lights and
heart, are not first affected ?

A. No. Not always,

Q Are they not sometimes ?
A. They are affected sometimes.

Q. But not invariably the first to be infected ?
A. No they are not invariably.

Q. Are not the intestines the first parts affected by the disease 1

A . Sometimes, but not invariably. I am perfectly unbiased with my evidence. I
don't go for one side or the other. I have endeavored to give it as directly as I can, and
do not wish to favor one side more than the other.

Q. In some cases, might not the flesh appear sound even when the animals show
evidence of disease when the intestines were removed 1

A. That is a question in connection with meat inspection. One of the first things in
connection with meat inspection, one of the conditions of sound meat, is firmness or what
butchers call "set," or rigor mortis. In an animal killed in a febrile condition the absence
of "set" is one of the indications of disease at the time of butchering, and if this had been
absent I would have objected.

Q. Mr. Sweetapple, are you aware that that is not an answer to my question ?
A. I thought it was. Put it again and I will endeavor to answer it.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1807-8

Question repeated.

A. Oh, certainly. If the disease is only very slight there might not be evidence in
the carcase. That is, if the da ease was very slight.

Q. In order, then, whether a hog is diseased or not, to make proper examination, it is
necessary to examine the intestines ?

A. It is necessary for the inspection of meat properly to inspect every animal before
it is butchered as well as afterwards, and every animal that is butchered should be exam-
ined in that way. That is carried out thoroughly in Germany and some European coun
tries, and will eventually be carried out in America.

Q. But in this case it was not so carried out by you. You only examined the dead
meat in the cold storage ?

A. It is not carried out in the city or in this country. Can you mention a case in
which it is done ?

Q. Can you tell me what time of day it was when you inspected the meat 1
A. It was in the early afternoon, tc the best of my recollection.

Q. About two o'clock 1

A. Oh, well, probably two or three. It might be later, but I think it was in the
early afternoon.

Q. You think about two o'clock 1
A. Between two and three.

Q. That was the only time you inspected any hogs in the cold storage — of these
hogs?

A. I can only recollect that this was the only time I went up and found hogs there.
I went up there once and didn't find any hogs there.

Q Was it the next day you did not find the hogs there ?
A. The next day. I went up in the morning.

Q. Have you any recollection whether or not the Harris wagons were not there
ready to take them away when you went up early in the afternoon, that is, to take away
that portion that had already arrived ?

A. I have no recollection of seeing any wagons about there. I don't think they were
there. I think I would recollect seeing them there if they had been there. They were
not banging them up at the time or removing them.

Q. Was it the next day you went up again ?

A. Yes. It was the next morning after the first inspection.

Q. Did you carefully inspect every hog you saw there the first evening 1
A. Certainly.

Q. What was the nature of your inspection ? Just describe exactly what you did.

A. I went around them, felt them, to see if this firmness or "set" was present,
looked at the skin aod the lining membrane of the thoracic and abdominal cavities and
visible lymphatic glands, and also I looked to see that there was no mutilation of the
carcase, scraping away of anything, with a view of hiding or removing evidences of
disease.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you make any memorandum of your inspection ?
A. No, none whatever.

Q. Can you swear positively how many you inspected 1
A. No.

Q. Did you inspect thirty 1

A. Oh, yes, I think considerably more than thirty.

Q. I don't wish to have any thinking about this. Are you prepared to swear posi-
tively that you inspected more than thirty ?

A. Oh, yes, certainly.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that you examined more than forty ?
A. Oh, yes. I think 1 have no hesitation as far as 1 can recollect.

Q. It is only by recollection 1

A. Yes, I have no note whatever.

Q. There might have been leas 1
A. No. I don't think so.

Q. There might have been.
A. No. I don't think it.

Q. Will you swear that there could not possibly be less than forty ?

A. It is very hard to put a man so close a year and a half after the thing happens,

Q. I appreciate that.

A. And then I examined so many.

Q. What I want to draw your attention to is that evidence has already been given
that the killing operations were continued over two days. There were about fifty killed,
dressed and delivered all told the first day, right up to nearly six o'clock at night, and
that some forty-seven of them were killed on the second day and there were only ninety*
seven altogether. If that is a fact, I want to ask you now, with all this time interven-
ing, and giving all due allowance for lapse of memory and the fact that you have no
memorandum to base your recollection upon, are you now prepared to swear that
between two and three o'clock on Monday afternoon you inspectel forty hogs 1

A. That is Monday afternoon. I won't swear positively to Monday. I might be
mistaken.

Q. I think you are quite right. The evidence will hear out that it was on Monday,
as you have already stated. Are you prepared to swear that you inspected forty hogs
on that day ?

A. Well, I think I saw more than forty when I was there.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that now in the face of what I have told you 1

A. Just as I told you, it is a little difficult to recollect, and I don't want — I have
nothing to hide whatever in connection with the

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q I know that, but are you prepared to swear positively that you did. If you
say yes, I will take your statement.

A. I must hare inspected more than forty, but I can't recollect the number,

Q You could not have inspected any more than were there ?
A. Certainly not.

Q. You went back the next day, however 1

A I went back after the first day that 1 went there, or rather I went Vack again
in the evening of the first day, to see some more. On the evening of that day cr the
next day. that I am not quite sure about, but there were none there. The following
day 1 went in the morning and they were not there then.

Q. Did you go back on the evening of the first day of your inspection ?
A. 1 am not quite certain.

Q Did you make anv inquiry when you went there?
A. 1 inquired of some of the men.

Q. Would you know the men when you saw them 1
A. No, I would not.

Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Is Chas. Moore here ? Please stand up, Ylr. Moore. Did jou
see that gentleman present 1

A. I do not know.

Q. Was not that the man you were talking to 1
A. I do not know.

Q. Are you now prepared to say that you were not talking with Chas. Moore ?
A. No, I do not know him.

Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Is Neil McKinnon here !\ Let him stand up. Is this the man 1
A. I'll n >t swear to any man.

Q Was it either of these two men who told you there were no hogs there 1
A. Probably. I won't swear to it.

Q Did they tell you they would be down a littlw later ?

A. I said I would come in the morning, but when I went in the morning there
were no hogs there.

Q What time in the evening was it when you went ?
A. Somewhere about eight or nine o'clock, I think.

Q. They told you to come back in the morning ?
A. No, I said I would come back.

Q What did they say to you 1
A. That there were no hogs there.

<>1 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did they say it would be all right in the morning 1

A. Oh, ves, they said " coma back in the morning," or something like that. I left
them with the understanding that I would come back in the morning, and when 1 got
there in the morniDg there were no hogs there.

Q. Did you see any man there 1
A. I can't say.

Q Did you make any inquiries from anyone there ?
A I saw tome men about.

Q Did you ask for the hogs ?

A. They said the hogs were not there.

Q. Did it not strike you as peculiar that they were not there 1

A. No, for this reason. I did not see that there was any inducement for any man
to slip in diseased hogs. It was not as though it was private parties.

Q And you concluded that any hog there would be all right ?
A. Yes.

Q And when you didn't find any hogs there next day, you did not think it your
duty to make any further inquiries?

A. I reported to Dr. Smith that the hogs were not there,

Q. Did he make any report about that ?

A. I do not know anything about Dr. Smith ?

Q. And apart from tha few hogs you inspected

A. A few?

Q You did not inspect any more than you inspected on the first day ?

A. I do not recollect inspecting any more than on the first day. I inspected a
number then, not a few.

Q. This is a fact proved now beyond all doubt that all the hogs that were killed and
dressed on Monday and Tuesday and all were delivered at the Central Prison ?

A. I know nothing of it. It's outside my province altogether. I know nothing
about it except your statement

Q' Did you inspect any hogs that were killed on the second day ?

A. There's a thing I do not know. There's possibility it was on Tuesday I went.
You claim it was Tuesday — it was Taesday or some one day, but I ana not certain about
tha-. I took my statement for Monday, but I cannot recollect with ab olute certainty
about the exact time.

Q Then your written statement may be wrong1?

A. There is a possibility there may be an error in the day.

•

Q. And if Dr. Smith's evidence says it's Monday, his evidence must be wrong ?
A. He must answer for his own evidence. I would rather he would support his
evidence.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. GARROW. — Q. It was intended that you should inspect all the hogs ?
A. I understood so.

Q. As far as the Government's intention was known to you, it was the intention
that you should inspect them all before they passed into the purchaser's hands ?

A. The instructions 1 received were from Dr. Smith,

Q. And by some means or other, you did not see them all 1

A. I intended to see them all and I believe that I saw the greater number. I don't
like to say exactly.

Q. Is it not a fact that when you went to that place you either went with or met
Mr. Hunter, the cattle buyer for the Government, there ?

A. I think I waited about for Hunter some little time, and I think I rode home
with him part of the way.

Q. You are not prepared to state it was Monday or Tuesday 1
A. I cannot recollect.

Q. If Mr. Hunter says it was Tuesday, you would not object to that ?
A. No. If he has sufficient evidence to show that.

Q. You were familiar with all the circumstances at the time, that the killing
occupied two days 1

A. There is no doubt about that.

Q. Then, when you went up the second morning it was possible it might be on.
Wednesday morning 1

A. Certainly.

Q. That visit was intended to wind up your inspection ?
A. Certainly, a few more were to come down.

Q. Now, looking at these ninety-seven carcases that were there, we have been told
that Harris purchased them in the ordinary way and paid the ordinary price for them ;
supposing there had been disease, would an experienced purchaser have been able f.o
detect visible signs of that disease 1

A. Yes. If there was any disease to any extent at all.

Q. It would be sure to leave its marks so that experienced hands would be able to
find it as well as a veterinary surgeon ?

A. Certainly. If they had been taken into the market, to further elucidate what I
did, 1 fully expected that Mr. Awde would be looking them over. .He is the inspector for
the city Board of Health and if I had passed them and he had objected, it would make
me a little more cautious. I expected that they were going into the market.

Q. The suggestion is made that the Government neglected its duty. Can you
suggest anything that the Government [could have done in order to protect the public ?
A. No..

Q. Was there anything that they left undone to protect the public.

A. I think everything was done that could be done to protect the public.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Nothing neglected ?

A. No, not at all. I can see no reason that anyone would get any peculiar benefit
to himself by slipping in diseased meat.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. Mr. Awde is inspector of meat for Toronto ?
A. Yes. He is inspector for all food stuffs.

Q, Do you know whether he came after you or not 1 Do you know whether he
inspected these hogs 1

A. No.

Q. You have often been engaged by Mr. Awde himself ]
A. Yes. For the City Board of Health.

Q. Did you report to Mr. Awde at the time or during the time they were being sold ?
Did you mention to him that this meat was being sold in the public market 1

A. I can't recollect having done so. If 1 had seen him I might have told him.

By Mr. GERMAN :

Q. What kind of inspection of these hogs did you make ? Did you inspect them at
the piggery ?

A. No. I inspected them at the cold storage rooms at the Central Prison.

Q. Will disease exhibit itself in the carcase 1

A. Yes, it might ; it would be expected to do so, certainly.

Q If the disease had progiessed so far that pieces of meat had to be cut out and the
intestines were exceedingly diseased would that stage exhibit itself in the carcase ?

A. If pieces of meat had been cut out, I would have objected to the whole carcase
for this reason, — knowing where they came from I would have suspected immediately that
these animals were diseased, and I was careful to see that the carcases were intact, entire
and not mutilated.

The report by Dr. Sweetapple referred to in his evidence and handed in by Hon.
Mr. Davis is as follows :

To James Noxen, Esq, Inspector :

Sir : — I beg to state that on Monday, July 13th, 1896, at the request of Dr. Smith, I
went to the cold storage room at the Central Prison for 1 he purposes of inspecting the
carcaaes of a number of hogs that had been butchered at the H umber piggery. I made a
careful examination of all the hogs that had been brought in and could find no evidence
of disease ; nor any evidence that any parts had been cut away. The carcases were all
entire and perfectly healthy. I therefore passed them as sound and fit for food. There
were a few more to be brought in that evening so I went again on Tuesday morning but
they had been moved I could see no evidences whatever of any endeavour of any one to pass
a carcase of a diseased hog for a healthy one. I had given explicit instructions that no
carcase should be brought in that presented any evidences of disease, and I feel confi-
dent that these instructions were well carried out.

I am, Sir.

Yours respectifully,

(Sgd.) C. N SWEETAPPLEJ V.S.
TORONTO, Dec 21st, 1897.

61 Victoria, Appendix ( Xo. 1.) 1897-8

Mr ROBERT HUNTER : sworn.
Examined by Mr. GARROW :

Q. You are inspector of cattle for the Ontario Government 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are aware, of course, of what has happened at the Humber piggery with
reference to hog cholera ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. When did you first know the disease was up there 1

A. We had some sickness about the first of July ; but we were not aware what it was.

Q. Who was in charge of that place ?
A. Mr. Warner.

Q. At the beginning of July, 1896, you were aware that there was something wrong ?

A. Yes. We had a veterinary surgeon go out to examine them, and he said a little
change in the food was all that was needed, and that was the cause of the illness ; some-
thing like that A few days later, we found that they were not improving and some of
them died. I consulted with Inspector Noxon, and we sent out Dr. Smith to take charge
of it and he pronounced it cholera.

Q. What day was that 1

A llth day of July, on a Saturday.

Q. Were you out at the piggery with them ?

A. I was there and waited quite a while for them, and they did not come, and I
then went and telephoned to them. They said they had been delayed ; that some pro-
cession had delayed them.

Q. What comes next ?

A. Dr. Smith reported to me that he had given instructions to Warner what to do
with the hogs ; to destroy all the hogs that were diseased and burn them ; those that
were n« t diseased to kill them and put them in cold storage and make use of them — to
sell them.

Q Anything said about special inspection of the carcases ?

A. That they would inspect them at the cold storage afterwards.

Q. Was that done '1
A. Yes, sir, it was.

Q. You arranged for the killing of the hogs 1

A. Dr. Smith said it had to be done immediately, and I arranged with yoang Fred.
Newtot .

Q. The witness that was just called 1
A. Yes.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q What ia he ?

A. He is a bit of a jobber around. I don't really know what he does ; half the time
he does nothing.

Q. He calls himself a wholesale butcher ?

A. He has butchered some cattle, and I believe has worked in a wholesale
establishment.

Q. Sometimes idle, and sometimes working?

A. Yes. It was told to me that he was idle at the time I tried to get some men,
and I found it very difficult to do so at that time. They told me that Newton was idle,
and that I could get him to do the work.

Q. You say that he never had an establishment of his own ?

A Not that I am aware of. He might have a little place, but not that I am aware
of. I think he mostly worked for some wholesale men, and it was reported to me that
he was Hie at that time.

Q. What arrangements did you make with him1?

A. That he was to start killing early on Monday morning as we wanted to do the work
as quick as possible. 1 told him that there was disease, but did not tell him that it was
cholera. I told him that all the diseased hogs that were there were to be burned, and that
Mr. Warner would burn them. That he was not by any means to butcher and hang up any
h g that he would not eat himself.

Q. You told him that ?

A. Yes ; half a dozen times.

Q. Were you put to see that he obeyed your instructions 1

A. I was, very early in the morning just before they started killing, I think. I was
thereabout 6 o'clock, I think.

Q He says they were there at 4 o'clock.

A They might have been there, sharpening their knives and getting ready, but they
did not start to kill at that time. 1 told him that Dr. Smith had instructed me to get
aw*y with the hogs as quickly as possible, and that all those that had any signs of disease
were to be burned. I told him that plainly. I went back again about 11 o'clock to see
that they were working, and was there several times during the day on Monday, and I was
there on Tuesday as well.

Q Were you there on Tuesday ?
A. I was.

Q More than once 1

A. I would not be sure about that.

Q What was the object of your going there ?

A, I wanted to see that the instructions were carried out that Dr. Smith had
given me.

Q What particular part of the instructions was it that you were keeping your eye on ?
A. To see that there was nothing used that was not fit for food.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You quite intended to see that the instructions were carried out ?

A. I did ; and I heard Mr. Warner say to Newton once " be very careful and not
touch that hog, because it is not fit." Of course I expect they burned that hog after what
Warner said.

Q. Then there can be no doubt that the instructions to Newton were that he was
not to use any hog that was not perfectly fit for food 1
A. Those were his instructions.

Q. There is no doubt about that?
A. No.

Q. You were also present when the hogs were inspected at the Central prison. What
day was that inspection made by Dr. Sweetapple ?

A. On Tuesday, the Uth of July.

Q. According to what Dr. Sweetapple said, it was on Monday 1

A. He might have been there on Monday, but it was on Tuesday I saw him there.
I was going over about 4 o'clock and overtook Dr. Sweetappfe near the cattle market ;
I asked him where he was going, and he said he was going over to the prison to inspect
the hogs, and we went over there together. There were two men working there, the
butchers at the prison.

Q. That was on Tuesday between four and five o'clock 1
A. Yes.

Q. Could it be that there were many hogs to arrive after Dr. Sweetapple ma Je his.
inspection ?

A. Just one load. Dr. Sweetapple and myself saw over 90 hogs there ; there was
only one load of four or five to come in after that, but that load was hung up in the
slaughter house and was never put in the cold storage at all, and the hogs were left there
for Dr. Sweetapple to examine The next morning Harris came along about seven
o'clock to commence taking away the hogs. Dr. Sweetapple was not there .and Harris
wanted to get them away. I saw all these hogs myself, and examined them carefully,
and found that every one of them was clean and free from any signs of disease, and that
none of them had been cut.

Q. Then between Dr. Sweetapple and you every carcase was examined before passing
into Mr. Harris' hands 1
A. Every carcase.

Q Do you concur with Dr. Sweetapple that if there had been any signs of disease
any experienced man could have detected it ?

A Most decidedly, you could see at once if there was any cholera in the hog by the
appearance of the carcase ; once it touches hot water it turns blue and black and you
could not use it.

Q. Would a man of Mr. Harris' experience be likely to purchase hogs of that kind
and pay full market price for them ?

A. Not at all. There would be nothing in that for him.

>>1 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. I understand that was what was done. That it was sold in the market to the
man who buys that kind of meat 1

A. Yes It would have been much easier for me to burn all of the hogs instead of
trying to sell any of them, but if I had done so the Government would have properly
^ensured me for it.

Q. You acted under Dr. Smith's instructions?

A. Yes. I found that Dr. Sweetapple was very strict in his examination. He
turned the carcases over and thoroughly examined them. As to the five hogs he never
saw, I do not suppose it was his fault that he did not see them.

Q. Whose fault was it?

A. I do not know whose fault it was, but I saw them myself and am sure they
were quite equal to the others that Dr. Sweetapple had seen.

Q. We were told yesterday that this man Newton came to you after the thing was
over and complained that the people were chasing him for information. Is that a fact ?

A. He came to me in the cattle market one day and says to me " St. John or some-
body has sent for me, they want to see me and I wonder what they want me for." I
said " I suppose it is to get some particulars about that piggery business." I had heard
there was some talk of it at that time. He said " Oh ! to hell with them, I am going to
work for Hill this year," that is the Liberal candidate in West York.

Q. That puts the " hell " in the other mouth ?
A. That is correct.

Q Was there any suggestion that he should not give any information 1

A. Not at all, I told him to use his own judgment and said we have nothing
to conceal ; all that was done I did under Dr. Smith's instructions. You can use
your own judgment whether you go to see him or not.

Q. Was there anything to conceal ?
A. Not at all.

Q. The whole thing was open and above board ?
A. Open and above board.

Q How was he paid ?

A. Well, I paid him $1.50 a day and his board, and the same for each one of the
three of them, and $1.50 a day for the old horse and wagon that he had.

Q Was there any quarrel ?

A. Not at all. Only he wanted more money, and I said I am going to pay
you what is right, what I think you are worth.

Q. Wanted to get more money?

A. He never from that day to this has asked me for any more, but was always
running around wanting to know if I could give him a job.

Q. Did he not make a specific demand?

A. No, never to my recollection. I am not sure now if he did not ask for $25,
or it might have been $20 — it was some ridiculous amount, anyway — and I asked
bim if he thought the Government was a gold mine, and told him he could not get
any more than he earned.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1 897-8

Q. When did he make this demand ?

A. A day or two after the hogs were killed. He came down, and I settled with
him. I gave him what I thought was regular pay for a man of his «apacity ; what
I thought he was worth.

Q. I suppose anyone could do the work 1

A. As well as they did, anyway. Some hogs in the sticking of them, I noticed^
had the knife put in cross ways instead of running in, and left a gash, and they were
not over well dressed for a butcher that has been fifteen years in the business.

By Mr. GERMAN.

Q. Did you see the hogs after they were killed?
A. Every one of them.

Q. This man Newton yesterday swore that he had to cut the chops out of one
and chunks of meat out of the others — as I understood it, nearly all of them. Is
that true?

A. There is not a word of truth in it. My butcher is here and he can answer for
that.

Q. What this man Newton says is untrue ?
A. Most decidedly untrue.

Q. Were there knobs of meat cut out ?
A. Not at all.

Q. And there were no disease marks upon them ?

A. No. There might have been a little blood trickled back along the ribs, as there
may be in hogs taken fresh, but they were a nice clean lot of hogs.

Q. You .have been in the butcher business all your life 1
A. All my life.

Q. Have you ever seen hogs affected with cholera ?

A. I have had three cases of it, one at the Toronto Asylum, and on at the Central
Prison.

Q. Have you seen the meat of hogs that have been affected with cholera ?
A. Oh, yes, I have seen them opened up.

Q. Is it a thing that could be told 1 If you saw the carcase of a hog that had been
affected with cholera, could you tell it in the meat 1

A. Any man in the business could tell it.

Q. It is a thing that any ordinary butcher, any man dealing in that sort of thing,
could tell by looking at the meat 1

A. Most decidely. I never saw a carcase yet of that kind but would be discolored in
the belly.

Q. And did this meat show no evidence of disease at all ?

A. Not one particle. I would never have allowed it to go, if it had.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 181)7-8

Q. TLen what this young man that was swearing so strongly here yesterday said
must have been absolutely untrue ?

A. It was absolutely false.

By. Mr. LOUGHKIN. — Q. What about killing the dead hog ?
A. I don't know anything about that.

By Mr. MC^ISH. — Q. But are we to understand that the carcases were mutilated is
untrue 1

A. Certainly. Not one of them was mutilated.

By Mr. STRATTON. — Q. Who is this Mr. Harris ]

A. He is a son of Joseph Harris, the largest hog dealer in the Province, and he buys
dead hogs.

Q. Would he know whether these hogs were diseased, if he examined them at the
time1?

A. Most decidedly. He has been in the business and would have noticed any
indications of hog cholera.

Q. If they had been cut and slashed as the witness said yesterday they were, would
he have taken them *?

A. Mobt decidedly he would not.

By Mr. GARROW. — Q. Mr. Harris is one of the most experienced hog dealers in the
country, and one who would most readily detect anything wrong with the carcases ?

A. Certainly.

Q. What is his reputation ?

A. One of the most respectable dealers in Canada.

Q. Can you give us anything about the reputation of this young man 1
A. I do not wish to say anything about him. He will show up what he is himself,
after a while.

5th January, 1898.
WILLIAM T. HARRIS, examination continued by Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. There are three firms by the name of Harris dealing in hogs and pork ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Wm. Harris, Wm. Harris & Co., Wm. Harris, and yourself, Wm. T. Harris]
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are in no way identified with the other large firms in the pork business ]

A. Well, just related to them.

•
Q. But no identification in business ?

A. No connection whatever.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You own a business of your own1?

A. Yes.

•

Q. Do you now produce your book that was asked for the other day 1

A. I find it impossible to find the sales book. That was just a small memorandum
book which I used at the time.

Q. What do you now produce ?

A. The book that contains all the purchases.

Q. You have stated in your evidence, in chief, that you bought at the rate of 500
hogs a month on an average for the year through. How many hogs did you buy in the
month of July, 1896 1

A. You can see the book.

Q. Here's an entry on page 238 of your book, dated July llth?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are there any previous purchases on your book for the month of July 1

A. That's very hard to say. I am afraid that it has not been dated in some cases
— not always.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that there are no entries in your book prior to that
entry on page 238 ?

A. I am not prepared to swear. I think it is impossible to buy as many hogs from
any farmer's wagon in one day as shown in that entry there.

Q. You think that ?
A. I think that.

Q. But you won't swear that?
A. No.

Q. Supposing we include every entry of purchase that is not dated, so that we at
least will have every possible hog you could have purchased, how many bogs did you pur-
chase in July, 1896, apart from these you purchased from the piggery or got from the
Central Prison ?

A. It is in the book.

Q. Now, then, Mr. Harris, including every hog purchased during the month of July
and all other entries that are undated that may or may not be in the month of July,
your total purchases amounted to 155 hogs, apart from those ninety-seven?

A. Yes, sir. Now the question arises in my mind whether these hogs were for the
month of July or not. I do not hardly think they would come down in one day. I would
very often get our firm to kill some hogs to keep the trade going, and it looks to me that
that must be an account which came in during the month.

Q. That is all the records you can produce of purchases ?
A. Yes.

Q. By Mr. HAYCOCK. — Q. Do I Understand you to say that you are not positive
that you bought these sixty-four hogs on the last day of July ?

A. No, I am not.

61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Likewise you are not positive that you bought those sixty-
foui hogs in July or not. It must have been in the previous month, if this account had
just come in to you ?

A. Yes.

Q. From whom did you buy those ninety-seven hogs in question ?
A. Robert Hunter.

Q. I find an entry on page 238 in the following words, "July 15th, R. Hunter'
ninety-seven hogs, 8,642 Ibs. at $5.20, $448.90." When was that entry made ?

A. It must have been made that month, on the 15th. Well, I wouldn't think ao-
It must have been a day or two later because I did not get the hogs till then. I just
carried a small pass book and from there wrote it in.

Q. As a matter of fact, that day, July 15th, was a couple of days after you got the
A. No, sir. It would be marked in later, but that is the day I received the hogs.

Q. You are positive about that ?

A. That they came in on the 14th or 15th.

Q. When did you start your first load on the 14th?
A. The first thing in the morning.

Q. The first thing on the morning of the 14th yon commenced to take away the hogs ?
A. Yes, I'm sure of that.

Q. Had you any suspicion that there was anything wrong with these hogs ?
A. Not when I bought them.

Q. You had afterwards ?

A. Oh, everybody knew that afterwards.

By Mr. HAYCOCK :

Q. How long afterwards before you knew of it ?
A. Oh, I guess two or three weeks afterwards.

Q. You had them all sold before you had any suspicion 1

A. We sell them all in one day, in the hot weather, if we can.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. Was there anything about the appearance of those hogs that would lead you to
suspect that there was anything wrong ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Is that your writing ?
A. Yes, sir.

20 J. 81

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. It is very different writing and a very different class of ink from anything you see
before or after it.

A. I do not think so. That resembles it very much, (pointing to another entry.)
It is very likely that was written at home when I was finishing up with the books.

Q. You had that down July 6th, and you have changed it to August 6th afterwards?
A. July 6th. It is there now.

Q. Who did the weighing ?

A. There was some man at the prison weighed the hogs. I believe it was Mr. Moore
the butcher there, but I am not sure. I stood there to see them weighed.

Q. Did you check the weights 1

A. Yes, sir. I took the weights as they were called off. I had just a small pass
book in my pocket, and marked them down.

Q. You were present yourself when all the hogs were weighed ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you no memorandum of the weights ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Have you recollection of how many hogs you took away on Tuesday the 1 4th?
A. No, I took away, I believe, two loads, but have no account of it.

Q. Two double wagons ?

A. No, two single wagons, butcher wagons.

Q. Did you take away all the hogs in sight ?

A. I cannot recollect. I took away as many as I thought the load would take.

Q. Have you any recollection of handling any hogs you took away ?
A. Yes. I sold some of them myself in the store.

Q. How many would be in each wagon load ?
A. A full load, just what the wagon would take.

Q. What would be a fair load to take ?
A. Twenty-five hundred in each wagon.

Q. There might be fifty-six hundred pounds of hogs 1
A. There might be that ?

Q. Would there be at least five thousand pounds on the two loads ?
A. It would be very hard to tell.

Q, But you were there superintending everything ?

A, It's very hard to tell. I did not keep any track of it.

Q. They averaged less than ninety pounds per pig by your statement ?

A. No, sir. There were ninety-seven hogs altogether and I only took two wagon
loads that day.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. No, no, no. I mean the average weight of all the hogs.

A. 8,642 Ibs, was the total weight, I am not averaging them at all.

Q. Well, I am averaging them for you.
A. Yes, that's all right.

Q. Knowing the average weight, and that you took twenty-five hundred pounds at
least on each of the two wagons, can you tell me now how many you took ?

A. No. I cannot. Some of the hogs were bigger and some smaller.

Q. But were there enough hogs there by which you could take a fair load ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q And a fair load is how much ?

A. Twenty-five or twenty-six hundred pounds and you might get twenty -eight
hundred on.

Q. Supposing we do not make it a big load, let us get to the minimum. 2,500 Ibs,
is a large load 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. 5,000 Ibs. altogether ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q You would have then at least fifty-five hogs ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. On Tuesday morning, the 14th July, as you have stated 1
A. I believe so.

Q. Where did you take these hogs to 1
A. 33 \ Jarvis street.

Q. Have you a refrigerator there ?
A. No, sir.

Q. So that you were bound to dispose of these hogs at once 1

A. Yes, sir.

•

Q. When did you buy the hogs from Mr. Hunter ?
A. That 1 cannot gay positively.

Q. It was before Tuesday morning the 14th 1

A. 1 would not say positively what day. It must have been before that day, the 14th.

Q. Where were you when you made the purchase 1
A. I can't remember.

Q. You do not remember where you were when you made the big purchase like this ?
A. I cannot.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Can you possibly recollect the time and place ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Did you ever buy hogs from the Humber piggery before 1
A. No, sir.

Q. This was the only deal you have had with the Government on this piggery ?
A. The only deal in dressed hogs.

Q. Have you any — can you produce any documents to show where these hogs went to]
A. No, sir.

Q. To whom did you sell those hogs ]
A. I cannot say.

Q. You can't say ! Do you mean to say, Harris, that buying those ninety-seven
hogs in the month of July, and having no refrigerator, and being compelled to make
immediate disposition of them, you cannot tell me where they went 1

A. I have an idea where they went to — several of them, but cannot say what
quantity or number.

Q. Did you sell generally to the trade ?
A. I did.

Q. Name the trade to whom you sold hogs that month.
A. I decline to answer that question.

Q. Do you decline to state where you sold any hogs 1
A. Yes, dr.

Q. Having no suspicion that these hogs might be diseased, did you make a close
inspection 1

A. Yes, sir, thoroughly, while I stood there. The same as I would take hogs off
any farmer's wagon that I know of.

Q. When you took these fifty-five hogs on Tuesday morning, the 14th July, you
took them the same as you would take them off any farmer's wagon that you had no
suspicion of ?

A. Yes, sir ; I never suspect any man's hogs, but you can never tell what a farmer
has in his wagon or anybody else. If we are on a public market we* have to examine
every hog thoroughly or we will get left somewhere. Undressed hogs of course (live
hogs) are different.

Q. You produce a cheque dated 23rd July, 1896, payable to the order of R. Hunter,
$448.90. Are you prepared to swear that this is for the purchase of those hogs ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was this transaction a transaction of your own ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And of course paid for by yourself ?
A. By that cheque.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Then how is it that the cheque is drawn by Wm. Harris and not by yourself?

A. I drew on my father for the money. I got the money for him. He was away
in the old country at the time, and I had power to sign his name.

Q. But there is nothing on this cheque to show that it was for the purpose of hogs
from the Humber piggery, and you produce a cheque from Wm. Harris that does not
belong to your business dated 23rd July, 1896.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are you piepared to swear that that entry was made before the date on that
cheque, the 23rd July, 1896 1
A. Yes, eir.

Q. Where did you get the particulars from which you placed those items in the
book?

A. Off that book I carried in my pocket.

Q. Have you looked for that book ?
A. Yes, sir, certainly.

Q. That contained entries of your business ?

A. Just a small business that I did outside in the summer time. I have to look
all over to buy hogs.

Q. And you can't find that book ?

A, No, sir ; I have made a thorough search for it.

Q. And the statements you have made this morning are, to the best of your belief,
accurate ?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. HARCOURT. — Q. I understand you to say that it was on Tuesday, the 14th
that you commenced to take away the hogs ?

A. Tuesday, the 14th. Our market day is on Tuesday, and I believe it was on
market morning that I went.

Q, As to this cheque, what did you say about your relations with your father 1

A. He was away in the old country at the time, and I had authority to sign his
name for him.

Q. When did he leave ?

A. He left on the 10th July.

Q. And this transaction was shortly after ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And is this the only cheque you drew on him in that way ?

A. No ; I was doing his business and this is one of a number of cheques on that
account. I can show you scores of cheques drawn that way.

Q. So that there is nothing peculiar about the drawing of that cheque?
A. No ; I drew a number of cheques.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You did with that cheque what you did with scores of other cheques during your
father's Absence'?

A. Certainly.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Did you examine your father's books in relation to that
cheque 1

A. I went over the bank book and cheques that were returned from the bank.

Q. Did you look in your father's books with regard to that ?
A Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know whether that cheque on your father's account is charged up to
your account or not in his books ?

A. I cannot say.

Q. Will you produce your father's books to us ?

A. I do not think he can prcduce a book ; it is all cash transactions in our business.

Q. Oan you not tell whether your father can produce a book to show whether that
cheque is charged to your account ?

A. No, sir.

By Mr. GABRCW. — Q. A witness here has stated that out of this total of hogs that
were sent to the cold storage there were at least a dozen that were mutilated, parts cut
out, carbuncles removed, and bits cut out as well. Did you see anything of that kind
in these hogs you bought ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Could it be possible for anything of that kind on the pigs that you purchased
without you obsei ving it ?

A. No ; it would be impossible. The outer skin could not be cut at all without
my noticing it.

At this point Mr. ST. JOHN objected to Mr. Garrow being in possession of the
extended notes of the evidence previously given when the stenographer had positively
refused to furnish him with a copy immediately before the meeting of the committee.

Discussion ensued, and the chairman ruled that the practice of the committee was
that any member of the committee might have access to the evidence that had been
transcribed in the committee room during the session of the committee, but that the
stenographer had no authority to furnish copies to individual members for their own
personal use, until the report of the committee had been laid before the House.

Mr. ST. JOHN enquired of the stenographer whether his application for the evidence
had been refused.

By instruction of the committee, the stenographer stated that Mr. St. John had pre-
viously applied to him for a copy of the evidence, and, meeting him outside the committee
room immediately before the committee met that morning, he had asked whether the
evidence was ready. The stenographer informed him that he had some portion of it
completed, but that he could not furnish him with a copy until the report of the com-
mittee had been presented to the House, as he found that to do so would be a breach of
privilrge.

]n reply to a question from Mr. Haycock, the stenographer ttated that he would
have refused the request of Mr. Garrow or any other member of the committee for a
copy of the evidence, under the same circumstances as he had refused to furnish one to
Mr. St John.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. GARROW — Q. Newton said there would be an awful lot of them that had
pieces cut out. Can that be true 1

A. No, sir.

Q. You would have seen if there had been any spots on them ?
A. Certainly.

Q. You have no interest in this matter at all. Are you related to Hunter or any-
thing like that 1

A. No. No connection whatever.

Q. You bought the hogs in the open market at the market price ?
A. Yes. sir.

Q. And sold them in the same way — in the open market at market values, without
making any loss on them 1

A. No. We did not lose on them. We do not work for nothing.

Q. Not a word of complaint about any of the hogs that you sold 1
A. No, sir.

Q. And you have also told us that there were no pieces cut out of them — no mutil-
ated carcases 1

A. I have said so.

Q. The hogs were stiff and flesh hardened as a healthy carcase would be ?
A. Yes, sir.

FRED. NEWTON again took the stand and was cross-examined by Mr. Garrow.

Q. You remember you were sworn the other day and are still under oath 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is your age ?

A. Coming twenty-eight years of age.

Q. I understood you had been a wholesale butcher for some years.
A. Connected with the business fifteen years, and I have been in the business for
myself four years.

Q Did I understand you to say you were fifteen years a wholesale butcher ?
A. That was a mistake.

Q. This is what you said. I will read it to you. " What is your business, Newton.
And you answered, wholesale butcher. And then I asked you how long had you been
in that business and you replied : In the neighborhood of fifteen years."

A. That is correct. That is not the question that you put to me just now.

Q Yea, it is. I asked you your age and how long you had been in the business,
and you told me something different to what you said the other day.

A. I have been connected with the business. That is correct. I have not been in
the business for myself that time.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. From the age of thirteen you have been a wholesale butcher ?

A. That is not whafc jou say when you say connected with the business.

Q. Where is this magnificent business of yours ?
A. " Magnificent business."

Q. Well, business?

A. 1 have a slaughter house in Dovercourt village, where I kill my animals.

Q. Has it a number 1

A. No. It is in the country and there are no numbers there. I have been in that
slaughter house two years in March.

Q. Are you running it just now ?

A. Yes. I have one animal there now and there will be three animals there this
afternoon, if I get out of here in time.

Q. Is it there you carry on your wholesale business ?

A. It is there. I slaughter there and take the meat away to the market. That is
my headquarters. I do the killing there, and I do my selling on the market or wherever
I can sell.

Q. But that is your head office ?
A. Yes.

Q. At the slaughter house in Dovercourt village ? What is the name of the firm ?
A. Frederick Newton.

Q. Is your sign up 1
A. No.

Q. Nothing to advertise your business 1 You don't advertise ?
A. No, sir.

Q. You were hired here to kill hogs at $L50 per day]
A. No, sir, I was not.

Q. That is what you were paid.
A. No, I was paid $2 per day.

Q. Is that the wholesale rate ]

A. No, sir. It was not quite sufficient ?

Q. And you kicked ?

A. No. I will tell you how it happened. I did not put a bill in, but Mr. Hunter
eays to me " How much do I owe you ? " and I forget how much I told him — whether it
was $25 or $26. He says " Great Christ, do you want to rob me?" and he says " If
that's what you want, I think $2 per day is ungodly wagea." So I says to him " I'm
leaving it to you," and he gave me $ — . So I kept $4 for myself, gave $4 to my brother,
gave $4 to Dunn and the rest was for the horse and wagon.

Q. That looks more like a retail than a wholesale rate '?
A. I do not know what you can get.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What were you doing then 1

A. I was in the business then. In the wholesale business.

Q. What were you doing at that time 1

A. I was buying the bullock if I had the price to pay for it, and killing it and sell-
ing it on the market.

Q. And that is the wholesale business ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. I live in the country, and don't know anything about that you know. I do not
know what constitutes a wholesale business in Toronto.

A. It seems as though you know a lot about it.

Q. Then you were idle at this time 1

A. No, sir. I wasn't very busy in regard to taking a job

Q. You had been doing nothing but butchering all your life ?
A. Well, I did at times.

Q What is your business ? You are an experienced butcher 1 I think you had .
been connected with your father's business ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Hadn't you been connected with some other business for a short time 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. So that you might be called an experienced butcher ? Wholesale, of course, as
well as anybody else ?

. A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know why Hunter sent for you at all ?
A. No, I do not.

Q. Were you friends 1
A. No, sir.

Q. You never visited each other 1

A. No, sir. We never visited each other.

Q. You were merely acquaintances ?
A. Yes. Just acquaintances.

Q. I am told he sent for jou because he heard that you were not bu*y 1
A. No, sir, I was not busy.

Q. Was there any reason why he should send for you ?
A. No, I do not know any reason.

Q. You yourself know that you are not the kind of man he would send for to do
the work if he had a dirty kind of job to do 1

A. I do not know about that.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You did not occupy a confidential relation towards him ?
A. He might have thought so. I don't know.

Q. But you did not as far as he was concerned ?
A. No.

Q. You were merely acquaintances ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And knowing that, he sent for you ?
A Yes, sir.

Q. Did he refuse to pay you according to your reckoning 1
A. There was no arrangement as to pay.

*Q. And he did not pay you what you thought you ought to get ?
A. No. I did not make any complaint.

Q. How long have you known Mr. Hunter ?
A. I have known him quite a long time.

Q; How long. Twenty-eight years is not a long time, you know ?

A. Quite long enough for me. I have known him about twelve or fourteen years.

Q. He is a very decent, respectable man, so Mr. Crawford says.
A. Yes, air.

Q. Did you ever work for him before 1
A, No, sir.

Q. Ever have any Government work of any kind before 1
A. No.

Q. You never had a whack at the public before ?

A. I never had a whack at anything. I never looked for it. I wasn't looking for
a job then.

Q Your brother helped you. What does he do ?
A. He works for himself,

Q. A wholesale butcher, too ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Has an establishment as large as yours ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is Dunn a wholesale butcher, too ?
A. No.

Q. What business is he in ?
A. Chicken business, I think.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Mr. ST. JOHN. — Ask Mr. Dunn that question.

Mr. GARROW. — I will ask this witness if I choose.

Mr. ST. JOHN. — (To witness). Don't answer.

Mr. GARROW. — I want to find out about this gang, I will ask him the question.

Mr. St. John protested against Mr. Garrow applying the term " gang " to witnesses
appearing before the Committee.

Discussion ensued, after which Mr. Garrow withdrew the expression, and stated that
he did not want to insult any witness or hurt his feelings, but this witness had already
been contradicted by men whom he believed.

Examination continued by Mr. GARROW. — Q. We will get down to the killing. Did
Hunter tell you that there was illness or sickness among the hogs ?

A. He never made any such statement.

Q. He says so on his oath.

A. He didn't on my oath.

Q. Did he tell you that you were to kill and dress the hogs that were well ?
A. He told me to go ahead and kill them all.

Q. Not those that were well ?
A. No, sir.

Q Did he tell you that you were only to kill and dress the hogs that you your-
self would be willing to eat ?

A. No, sir, he did not.

Q. So that there is a plain contradiction as to that 1

Q. We were told that ninety-seven hogs were killed and sent down to the Central
Prison cold storage. Is that right ?

A. I believe there was.

Q. What means had you of knowing what went there and what did not go 1

A. All the hogs that were killed and dressed were hung up on a rail to my left,
a ad all the hogs that were taken off that rail were sent to the Central Prison.

Q. How did you know that 1

A. I did not know at all, except that I understood that all that were there were
sent to the prison

Q But you were busy 1

A. I was not so busy but I could see them go.

Q. But the business that you were charged with was the cleaning and dressing of

hogs?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Somebody else was iii charge of the work of taking them off the hooks and
sending them to the Central Prison 1
A. Yes, sir.

. 91

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Who was doing that?
A. My brother.

Q, Was Dunn engaged in that ?
A. No. He was assisting me.

Q. Out of the total of ninety- seven hogs, how many would there be that you
mutilated by cutting off parts and whittling out in that way which you spoke of '?

A. Well, that which appeared in the papers is all chewed since I gave my evidence
last. I never said anything about their being cut and slashed. Where I could cut them
out I did take them out. That is true. But I did not say anything about slashing.

Q. How many hogs out of the ninety-six had cholera spots on ? Do you remember
answering that ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. That there would be an awful lot of them. Is that true .'
A. That is true.

Q. How many did you get in that way 1

A. I cannot say the exact number. It would be in the neighborhood of — Oh, I
don't know, between ten and fifteen anyhow. It was over ten.

Q. That you cut pieces out of, diseased pieces, a carbuncle in one case /
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Anybody could see that, couldn't they 1

A. No. Except an experienced butcher. These hogs were all soft and delivered
hot and if they had been set it would be more noticeable, but the carcases were all ftabby
and did not set and would not set for some time.

Q They would not be soft after being in the cold storage all night ]
A. Yes. In regard to the cutting and slashing, I will tell you how that was done.
When you are ripping a hog down, to take the insides out of it, you could take an inch
off each side or half an inch, no matter what it might be, and the best butcher could not
know that that was done.

Q. Ofi what side t

A. Off each side of the belly, and you can take a piece of skin off, and scallop off
the meat right along, and again in the neck you can take a chunk off each side. I mean>
you can take a piece of the skin off and turn the knife in that way and scoop it right
out.

Q. Out of the outside?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you think an experienced man like Harris would never notice a thing of
that kindl

A. I do not think he would.

Q. You told us in your examination that there was not a single sound hrg among
them ?

A. There was not a single one.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Prof. Smith says that the average of every herd that does not take the disease is
about 50% I

A. They were all diseased.

Q. Of hog cholera?

A. That is what they say it was.

Q. You are unfortunately opposed to Dr. Smith as well as Dr. Sweetapple on that
point ?

A. I do not know about that.

Q. Did you suppose the hogs were dressed for human food ?
A. I did not.

Q. What was the object of dressing them then ] ,

A. I was not supposed to know. I did not know what they were going to do with
the hogs at all.

Q. You knew that they were going to a cold storage ?
A. I knew that they were going to the Central Prison.

Q. You supposed they were going to be used for human food ?
A. If I did, I think they shouldn't be used.

Q. Did you expect they were going to be used for human food ?
A. I judged they would.

Q. There would be no object in dressing them if they were not ?
A. Unless they were to be sold for soap grease.

Q. Do you dress hogs for soap grease !

A. They would have to be dressed for soap grease, I would judge.

Q. But your impression was that they would be used for human food ?

A. My impression was, that I didn't know what they were going to do with these

hogs.

Q. What impression did you form ? You would not be working there two days
without forming some impression on that point.

A. When I first started, I naturally thought they were going to be used for food,
but after I saw the state of the hogs I thought they were going to be used for soap
grease.

Q. The job was a very short one and ended when the hogs were killed. There was
nothing else in view as far as you were concerned ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you remonstrate with anybody about using these hogs for food ? Did you
say to Warner you must not use them, I won't be a party to using these for human food 1

A. I did not.

Q. Did you feel called upon to say anything about it — to object to dressing the hoga
that were in a diseased condition ?

A. No, sir.

61 "Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You are quite willing to dress a dead hog 1 I mean one that died.
A. When I am instructed to do so.

Q. And fix it up ready for selling ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q, Did you think it was exactly a manly part to do so ?
A. I did not think it was for human food ; certainly not.

Q. You have told us that in one case the hog was actually dead, and Warner told
you to stick him 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Would a wholesale butcher do that ?
A. Not for his own trade.

Q. Why did you do it?

A. Because I was ordered to do it.

Q. Surely you must have had some idea that these hogs were to be used for human
fo«d?

A. If I had known that they were going to be used for human food, I would not
have done it.

Q. What was the object of sending them to the cold storage ?

A. I did not know that they were going to the cold storage, but thought it was to
the slaughter house.

Q. You did not make any inquiries ? or remonstrances ? You did not find fault ?
A. No, sir.

Q. How many hogs had you killed before that ? Thousands of them 1
A. No, sir.

Q. How many ?

A. I can't tell you the number. Quite a few, anyhow,

Q. I mean in your past experience as a butcher ?
A. Over a hundred.

Q. You know enough as a man that a diseased hog was unfit for human food ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you- not ask during the two days you were there whether they were going
to use them for food or not 1

A. I think Warner said the first evening something about sending them to the
slaughter house down there at the Central Prison to be inspected.

Q. He told you on the first evening that the hogs were to be sent to the slaughter
house to be inspected 1

A. Yes.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. By Dr, Smith ?

A. He did not say who.

Q. Did you know they were being killed under the provisions of the Dominion Act
respecting infectious diseases ?

A. I didn't know anything of the kind.

Q. Did you know Dr. Smith had been there 1
A. No, sir.

Q. But you said if you had known they were going to be used for human food, you
would have remonstrated ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you would have refused to work on them ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You can only justify your continuing to work by the idea that they were not
going to be sold for human food ?

A. I did not know what they were going to do with them at all.

Q. But you believed they were not going to be used for food 1

A. I knew they were not fit for food, and anybody else should know the same thing.

Q. And if you had known the Government were going to use them for that purpose
you would not have gone on ?

A. Certainly not.

Q. And if you had supposed for the moment that they were going to be used for
food, you would not have gone on at all t\

A. No.

By MR. HAYCOCK :

Q. What did you suppose they were going to inspect the hogs for Monday night if
they were not to be used for human food ?

A. I do not know, I am sure. For different things. I will tell you. This was all
an underhanded business ; it was all whispering and whispering, and Warner would come
to me and whisper, as if he didn't want the other men to hear.

Q. I only want to get* at the facts in this matter. As I understand, you stated here
a few moments ago that you were told by Warner on Monday night that they were
going down to the store house to be inspected. Now that was on Monday night ?

A. I believe it was. I can't swear to it.

Q. And on Tuesday you continued killing ?
A. Yes.

Q. And you said if you had known they were going to be used for human food, you
would not have continued killing ? Just tell us for what other purposes they would be
inspected than for human food.

A. I do not know. They might be inspected for soap grease.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Inspected for soap grease ?
A. Certainly.

Q. Do you know of any other purpose they would be inspected for, executing human
food?

A. Certainly. You would have to inspect them, I would judge, even if they were
selling them for soap grease.

By Mr. GARBOW :—

Q. There was one hog that you spoke of in particular. This is what you said : — I
asked you " Can you tell me what you did with this particular hog that was dead?" and
you answered " That hog bled fairly well." and I asked you " No doubt about it ?" and
you said there was not. Then I asked you " In what condition was it 1" and you said
" It was pretty bad. I gouged in and took half the jaws off him." and the next question
was, " And what happened with him ? " and you answered, " I Delieve he was shipped."
and the next question was " Was he or was he not shipped ? " and the answer you made
to that was " I would not like to swear to that. I believe he was, and that I would be
safe in saying that he was shipped." Then I asked you, " Who ordered you to gouge the
jaws out of that fellow ? " and you replied, " Mr. Warner." Now is all that right ?

A. Yes sir.

Q. How did he have the jaws gouged out of him ? I have heard of gouging eyes
out but the hog that had his jaws removed in any way would be very noticeable 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. 80 that any one could see that he was mutilated ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And as far as you know, he went just the same way as the others did ?
A. I did not swear that that hog was shipped to the Central Prison.

Q. Was there any distinction between that hog and the others you dressed ?
A. Certainly.

Q. Was he kept apart or any thing of that kind ?
A. No. He was put up on the rail.

Q. And went away with the others 1
J±. I cannot say.

Q. As far as you know ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. When did you get your pay 1

A. I think on Wednesday or Thursday morning. I just forget which.

Q. Immediately after you did the work ?
A. A day after.

Q. Who from ?
A. Mr. Hunter.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Hunter and yon had a conversation at that time concerning the additional money
you wanted from him 1

A. He asked me how much I wanted, and I told him. I just forget whether it was
$20 or $25. Something in that neighborhood, anyway.

Q. Why did you want 825 ?

A. I'll tell you. A man working from 3 o'clock in the morning to 8 o'clock in the
evening, and employing two other men with a horse and wagon, I do not think anyone
would want to work for less than that.

Q. You were the contractor then 1

A. Yes. I suppose so. I had the other men with me.

Q. Hunter thought you would be well paid by $2 per day ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you have any quarrel with him ?
A. Not at all.

Q. You were friendly ?
A. Just friendly.

Q. That would be on the 14th or 15th of July t
A. I believe it was.

Q. Then the thing passed away. You bad nothing more to do with it.
A. Yes.

Q. What was the next thing you heard about the matter ?

A. I believe it was last fall. I forget just when. There was a man came to my
place to buy a mare off me.

Q. Who was the man ?

A. I won't mention the man's name. I don't think it is necessary. We had some
talk. He says "Your face is familiar to me." I said " Yes, yours is to me." He says
" You're the man that killed them hogs," and he talked about one thing and another,
just forget what he said. He says to me " There is a big thing in it for you," and I
said " Is that so ? " He wanted me to go and see some parties in the city with regards to
this, but I never went.

Q. Who did he tell you to go and see ?
A. A lawyer in this city.

Q. Who is the man ?
A. Mr. Bradford.

Q. Tell us that man's name now.
No answer.

Mr. ST. JOHN (to witness). Give the name.
A. Mr. McKinnon.

21 J. 97

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. GARROW : —

Q. Why did you tell Mr. St. John the man's name, and would not tell me ?
A. I do not know.

Q. Are you in any way under Mr. St. John ?
A. No sir.

Q. You were told that there was money in it for you, and to go and see Bradford ?
A. Yes.

Q. And who is Bradford ?

A. He is a lawyer in this city.

Q. You did not go 1
A. No.

Q Will you explain now in what way there was money in it for you ?
A. He did not explain for me, but that if I would go to see Bradford he would, but
I did not bother my head about it. I went to Mr. Hunter and told him.

Q. Why did you go to Mr. Hunter 1

A. Because I am a Reformer, and I says to Hunter, "There is a man after me to
give information in regard to that pig killing business," and you will find there in the
evidence what I told him and what he said to me.

Q. Mr. Hunter says you told him that. It was you told him that.
A. Well, he's putting it on the other foot.

Q. What conversation took place with Hunter 1

A. He told me to tell them that there was an inspector there and that would shut
them up.

Q. I do not think you told us that before.

A. Well, if I did not, it was because I was not allowed to do so.

Q. Now that was a rather more sensible thins; than telling them to go to hell.
A. He put that in himself.

Q. Tell us now what he said ?

A. I went to Hunter and told him that there was parties after me for information
with regards to the killing of those hogs. He said " Let them go to hell ; tell them
anything." I says " I'm not telling them that." and he says " Tell tfcem there was an
inspector there. That will shut them up."

Q. Did that shut these people up ?
A. No. It did not.

Q. Who were the people that wanted you to go and see Mr. Bradford and Mr. St.
John?

A. McKinnon wanted me to go to Mr. Bradford. He gave me a card personally to
go and see Mr. Bradford ?

61 Victoria. , Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. He did not want anything more than that from you ?
A. I do not know whether he did or not.

Q. He was there selling horses, was he ?
A. No. I was selling the horse.

Q. Do you think he was there for the purpose of buying horses or to pump you ?
A. I do not know whether it would be either.

Q. He was just a chance acquaintance 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And he told you there was nxoney in this hog business ?

A. Yes, sir

Q. What did he mean ? Was it for holding your tongue or for speaking, which ?

A. I do not know what he meant. I understood that he said there would be money.

Q. Did it occur to you that there was money in it if you would hold your tongue 1
A. It did not.

Q. That ends there. There is nothing more about that question. What next 1

A. McKinnon said, " I'll see Bradford myself." I says to him, " I know nothing
about law. Don't want to be bothered with this thing at all, " and finally he said he
would see Bradford himself. McKinnon came up to the house afterwards and left word
with my wife for me to go down to his house that night. The way the Missis gave me
his words, I said " It's pretty cheeky. I won't go at all. " The words I got were as if I
had to go and I never went. A few days afterwards he met me on the street and handed
me one of Bradford's cards, and said " Go down and see him " but I did not go.

Q. Nothing more ?

A. No. Not at that time, at least.

Q. That was the end of the whole matter ?
A. At that time.

Q. Go on to the next stage.

A. Recently, hearing that this thing has been going on, I went to McKinnon's house
and had a talk with him there.

Q. Who is McKinnon. Let us understand. Give his first name.

A. I do not know his first name. He is a man who worked in the Central Prison
slaughter house and assisted Ohas. Moore.

Q. Does he work there now ?
A. No.

Q. What is he doing now ?
A. I can't tell you.

Q. Is he a discharged official ?

A. I can't tell you. He says he left of his own accord.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) - 1897-8

Q. Was he in the Government employ at the time he came to see you ?
A. I do not believe he was.

Q. Was a dissatisfied person ?

A. I can't tell you anything about it.

Q. On which side was he ? Was he anxious to hurt or help the Government 1
A. It appeared to me that he and Hunter had had some words about something.

Q. That he was an enemy of Hunter's and wanted to hurt the Government 1
A. Yes.

Q. You didn't help anyone at that time ?
A. I went and told Hunter.

Q. You gave no information to McKinnon 1
A. No, sir.

Q. You didn't tell him you had done what you were ashamed of, the dressing of
diseased hogs?

A. No.

Q. Nor give him any information at all ?

A. No, sir. Not in regards to anything of that kind.

Q. That incident was complete in that way ?
A. I believe it was.

Q. Until recently. Now give us the time when something further took place 1
A. Two or three weeks ago. On one Saturday night — I forget the day of the month
—myself and my brother went down to his house.

Q. Why did you go 1

A. Well, this thing had been going on and Mr. St. John had sent for me several
different times, and finally I went down to see what he wanted.

Q. At St. John's office ?
A. Yes.

Q. Why did Mr. St. John want to see you particularly ?

A. I did not know then, but I found out afterwards why he had sent for me.

Q. Why did he send for you ?
A, I can't tell you.

Q. But he had sent for you several times to go to his office 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you did finally go 1
A. Yes, sir,

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Was it a verbal message that came or a letter 1
A. No it was a man that gave me the message.

<j. Who was the man ?

A. I decline to tell the man's name. I don't know whether I'll tell the man's name
at all or not.

Q But Mr. St. John asked you to tell it a minute or two ago.
A. It was Henderson.

Q. Was he the only messenger that came to you 1
A. There was another man that came to me.

Q. Who was that man 1
A. Mr. Burns.

Q. These were the messengers that passed between Mr. St. John and you ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And who are they ?

A. Henderson lives in the Junction and Burns lives on Ossington avenue.

Q. Are they all strong Liberals rl
A. I do not know.

Q. Were there any other messengers than theee that passed betwaen you ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Did you finally go to Mr. St. John at his solicitation 1

A. I talked the matter over with my wife, and she says, " You had better go and
see what they want, as if there is going to be trouble you will have to go anyway." So
I went down to see Mr. St. John, and when I went in he says, " do you wish to see me,"
and I says no, but you wish to see me and told them who I was, and he says, " You're the
man that killed those hogs," and we went into the private office. I thought I was doing
what was right.

Q. I suppose he made you swear to it and all that before you went any further ?
Did you make an affidavit or a declaration 1

A. No, sir. He just asked me questions.

Q. Was it in writing ?

A. Yes. He wrote it down.

Q. That would be when 1 How long ago ?

A. That would be — well I can't just tell you the day of the month.

Q Well, give us the month. Was it in October, November or December ?
A. I believe it was in November.

Q. How early in November 1

A. The latter end of November, I think.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Before the House met 1

A. The House was not in Session then.

Q. Are you sure of that 1
A. I do not think it was.

Q. Did you go to see him more than once 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many times 1
A. Several times.

Q. At his office ?
A. Yes.

Q. A dozen times?

A. Possibly, possibly Jess.

Q. And 1 suppose you talked it over ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You had no other business relations with him ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Why were you so willing to go to see Mr. St. John ]
A. I was not willing to go.

Q. Why did you go ?

A. He sent for me two or three times. I didn't want to go to see him because I had
an idea of what he wanted. I did not want to see him at all. My wife and myself talked
the matter over, and she said, " I think you had better go. If there is anything in it .
you will have to go anyway."

Q. You did not get any financial remuneration at all for going to see him 1
A. No.

Q. How many days did you lose rum ing up and down to see Mr. St. John in his

office 1

A. I never lost any day at all.

Q. Did you lose nights ?

A. No, I did not lose nights. I would be going down to market to do my business
and I would drive down and drop in for a minute or two. I would have to be down there
every day.

Q. And you would drop in and talk about the killing of the hogs 1
A. Possibly.

Q. Without any consideration of any kind at all ?
A. No.

Q. Without reward or hope of reward ?
A. No, sir.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You would like this Committee to believe that from a very strong Liberal ?
A. Is that so. I don't care how they believe it.

Q. And you have sworn that you are a Reformer ?
A. Yes, I judge I am.

Q. And you are supporting Hill in West York ? — -just as Hunter says you said " To
hell with them, I'm supporting Hill anyway."

A. I did not know that Hill was running at that time.

Q. You are not a supporter of Mr. St. John, and you are supporting his opponent ?
A. Yes, eir.

Q- And you are supporting an opponent, therefore, of Mr. St. John?
A. Yes. I believe so.

Q. And yet you go to Mr. St. John a dozen times to help him to stab the Govern-
ment 1

A. I did not help him at all.

Q. And yet you are here to help stab the Government ?

Mr. ST. JOHN protested against the expression "stab the Government."

By Mr. St. JOHN. — Q. You have been a member of the committee of Mr. W. J. Hill,
lay opponent, and have attended his committee meetings 1

A. I attended just one meeting.

Q. Tell me, Newton, is it not true as to the hogs in that building when the killing
took place on Monday and Tuesday — how many hogs were there in that building alive
that you did not stick and dress or attempt to dress ?

A. How many were in that building ?

Q. How many hogs were there alive that you dressed or attempted to dress 1
A. All that there were in the building.

Q. So that you stuck and dressed or attempted to dress every hog that was alive 1
A. Yes.

Q. Warner was there all the time and made the selections 1
A Yes.

Q. You heard the evidence of Dr. Smith where he says that when he was there on
Saturday all the hogs in sight were sound except twelve that he noticed were sick. Was
that true?

A. No, sir.

Q. That is not true 1
A. No.

Q So that how many hogs were dead in that building during the two days ? That
you found had died — put it that way. How many hogs had died during the two days ?

A. I can't tell exactly,

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. About how many ?

A. Fifteen probably, more or less.

Q You completely dressed 108, you have stated ?
A. Ninety-seven is all I dressed and shipped away.

Q. Did you complete the eleven that were taken down off the hooks after they
were dressed ?
A, Yes, sir.

Q. And there were five or six that were so discolored when put into the boiling pot
that they were thrown away 1

Q. And fifteen outside that died ? That would be altogether 129 hogs in the building?
A. I cannot tell.

Q That is as near as you can make out ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. So that the balance, there being 264 in all, 135 of them were outside the building
altogether ?

A One hundred and thirty-five were outside the building ]

Q About that number.

A. I do not know how many were outside. I hardly think there were that many.

Q. Dr. Smith said that all the large hogs were perfectly sound except the twelve that
he saw tick.

A. There was not a hog that I dressed that was sound.

Q. How many large sows were there outside 1

A. There was quite a number of them running around.

Q. About how many of them 1

A. I think there was quite a few of them.

Q. I have heard there were from ten to fifteen large sows outside.
A. Possibly there were.

Q. What was their condition ?
A. Pretty bad.

Q. How bad 1

A. Bad enough to kill and leave there.

Q. In what condition ?

A. They were weak in the hind quarters. Kind of weak and couldn't get round.

Q What was done with them ?
A. They were burned.

Q. Can the statement of Dr. Smith be correct that on Saturday every hog, including
the little ones, was sound excepting the twelve that were sick ?

A. I would not think so.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Would that be true on that point 1 There was one dead, twelve sick, and they
killed one ? Would that be correct 1 That all the others were well on Saturday ?

A. I'm not telling about Saturday, but on Monday there were three times twelve
sick on the face of them, all diseased.

Q. There were, I understand, between seventy and 100 young pigs there, suckers up
to six weeks old. How did you find them on Monday and Tuesday 5

A. The usual number of them died in the pens on Tuesday and the rest of them
were dying, coughing, choking and so on.

Q. As a matter of fact, they were in such a horrible condition on Monday and Tues-
day that everyone of them had to be killed and burned 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many of them were killed and dressed on Tuesday, I mean out of the sows'
pens?

A. Five or six, probably.

Q. When did you kill and dress those large sows ?
A. On the last afternoon.

Q. Why did you kill them ?

A. Mr. Warner did not know whether they were to be dressed or not because Hunter
had not given any orders about these sows.

Q. Did he state that to you 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Warner did 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then why did you dress them ?

A. Hunter came in and says " You had better kill them any way, and if they won't
do for anything else they will do for soap grease."

Q. And you did kill them and dress them ?
A. Yes.

Q. And they were shipped away ?
A. I believe they were.

Q. And you have no knowledge of whether they were sold for soap grease or not ?
A. No, sir.

Q. How long was Hunter there ?

A. He was there on Monday morning and he came back again about eleven. He
stayed longer the first time. I do not know whether he was there again that day or not.

Q. He did not stay there to watch the hogs being killed 1
A. Just for a few minutes.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. He did not examine the entrails as they were being opened 1
A. No. Not to my knowledge.

Q. He was not there continually watching ?
A. No, air.

Q. And you took your orders, first from Hunter and then from the caretaker ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was Warner present when you cut pieces out of the hogs 1
A. Yes. He would say, " Fix that fellow up."

Q. And he knew perfectly well that they were diseased ?
A. Certainly.

Q. As a matter of fact, what was the condition of the gullets of every hog that you
killed ?

A. Swollen, inflamed and ulcerated.

Q. What are the gullets ?
A. The top of the wind pipe.

Q. What you say is that every one of these ninety -seven hogs' gullets were inflamed,
swollen and ulcerated, every one of them ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q You would have some conversation about the gullets from time to time during
the day 1

A. Sometimes I would get an extraordinary bad one and I would say to Warner or
some one of them " That is a very bad one."

Q. What did he say about that ?

A. 1 do not know just exactly what he did say.

Q. Are you quite positive that Hunter said to Warner and you that there three or
four big sows should be killed anyway 1 after Warner hesitating as to whether they should
be killed or not 1 That they were to be killed and if fit for nothing else they would do
for soap grease ?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was it told you to stick the hog that was dead and dress him 1
A. Mr. Warner.

Q. Was he down in the pens when you were going to stick them 1
A. Mostly all the time.

Q The worst of the diseased hogs were outside the building altogether ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. That is correct ?
A. Yes.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Was it outside that there were a good many on Monday and Tuesday that were
very much diseased and dying and dead ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In fact, there was one hog lying there on Monday or Tuesday that had been dead,
and he appeared in a pretty lively condition 1

A. There was one lying there in the shrubs.

Q. In a pretty lively condition of decomposition 1
A. There was.

Q. If Hunter or anybody else had told you to only dress such hogs as appeared to
be perfectly sound, what would you have done ]

A. I would have had to end where I started.

(^. Had you known that it was the intention, if you had received any instructions
whatever that sound hogs only were to be dressed, what would you have done?

A. There was no sound hog there to dress.

Q. You had simply to carry out your instructions as a paid employee ?
A. Yes.

Q. You said that this whole business seemed to be under-handed, especially in
whispering between whom 1

A. Hunter and Warner would come to me and whisper things to me that he didn't
want the other men to hear.

Q What did he whisper to you 1

A. I just forget, it was little things in regards to the killing of the pigs. I forget
what they were.

Q. What had it reference to ?

A. To those hogp, about the dressing of them. He appeared to be concealing it
f om the rest of the men.

Q So that Warner knew perfectly well that the hogs were diseased ?
A. Anybody that was there would know that.

By Mr. G ARROW : —

Q. Did you say that he said to kill three or four sows that were diseased and they
would do for soap grease ?

A. They were not in the pens ; they were outside running around.

Q Then they were sick ?

A. I did not say anything about them being; sick, but that Warner did not know
whether they were to be dressed or not until Hunter came along, and said " You had
better kill them."

Q It was quite clear that they were not going into soap grease 1

A . I was not supposed to know anything at the time. These were the last we were

killing.

107

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. If three or four were going to be used for soap grease, it would seem to an ordi-
nary person that the rest were going to be used for food 1

A. Certainly.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : —

Q. The wholesale butchers of Toronto — what I understand by that is that they keep
their own slaughter house, and kill their own animals, and sell them by the carcase ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that is the prevalent manner in which wholesale butchers deal ?
A. That is the only way, except some very large firms.

Q. And the man who does that is known as a wholesale butcher ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is a retail butcher ?

A. He keeps a shop and buys from us and retails it afterwards.

By Mr. GERMAN : —

Q. What did you busy yourself with — at the sticking or cleaning ?
A. I busied myself at the killing and dressing.

Q. Was not your time pretty well taken up with the sticking ?

A. No, you could stick five or six hogs, draw them up, split them and then you
would go on and work on them.

Q. How many were killed altogether ?
A. You mean dressed and shipped away ?

Q. No. Gleaned?

A. I think in the neighborhood of 108.

Q. And several of them were diseased 1
A. They were all diseased.

Q. Did you examine them or inspect them all carefully ?

A. Well, when I was taking the entrails out I could easily see them.

Q. Is it or is it not a fact that the entrails of a hog might be inflamed without the
hog being necessarily diseased ?

A. Not taking the whole bunch of hogs.

Q. I am not talking about the whole bunch but one hog, or two or three. Is it or is
it not a fact that the entrails might be inflamed by over feeding '?

A. It might possibly be from that, or from a hog falling down, or something of that
kind.

Q. And by reason of the quality of the food given the hog's entrails might be
inflamed and the hog be perfectly good ?

A. Not as these were.

108

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. I am not asking yon as to these, but whether it is possible that the entrails of a
hog might be inflamed by reason of the food that is given it, and that it might not be
diseased ?

A. I do not quite understand that.

Q. Might not hogs show evidence of inflammation in the bowels without the meat
being diseased 1

A. Possibly it might.

Q. So that inflammation of the bowels would not necessarily be evidence of diseased
meat?

A. I am not in that particular line ; I am not a veterinary.

Q. What would you say about it, from your experience 1
A. I would think it would interfere with the meat.

Q. But you would not say distinctly as to that 1
A. No.

Q. You are not sufficiently versed in veterinary science to speak on that point 1
A. No.

Q. How many hogs were shipped to the Central Prison 1
A. 97, I believe.

Q. Yon know Harris, do you ?
A. Yes, sir,

Q. He is a mm as capable of judging the quality of meat as you are ?
A. I would judge so.

Q. He would probably be more so 1

A. He should be — it's in his line of business.

Q. And possibly he is ?
A. I believe he is.

Q. He would know by looking at these hogs whether or not they were diseased ?
A. Oh, yes, he should. That is, that part of these hogs that had spots on them,
He would know that they were.

Q. How many had spots on 1
A. Quite a few,

Q. How many ?

A. The majority of them.

Q. The majority had spots on 1
A. Yes,

<J. According to your statement, these spots were very distinguishable ?
A. Yes, some were large and some were small,

109

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q.- But Harris would easily detect them 1
A. Certainly.

Q. And it is not likely that he would buy diseased meat and pay the market price for it?
A. I do not think he would.

Q. It would not be reasonable that he would 1
A. No.

Q. And the only conclusion that one could arrive at was that it was not diseased or
that he did not detect the disease ?

A. That would be the case, I suppose.

Q. Who is this man McKinnon J

A. He is a man who had work in the Central Prison slaughter house.

Q. What does he do now ?
A. I do not know.

Q. How old a man is he f
A. 38 or 40 years, I suppose.

Q. How long have you known him ?

A. I met him that night at the Central Prison when we were taking the hogs there.
That was the first time I met him to my knowledge. I went there with the last load we
took there that night.

Q. Was he working at the Central Prison then ?

A. He was.

ft
Q. What was he doing 1

A. He was assisting Chas. Moure.

Q. What is Moore ?

A. He is the Central Prison butcher.

Q. What was he doing there ?
A. Killing cattle, I suppose.

Q. And you met him there for the first time on that occasion ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you have any conversation with him f
A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. How long after that was it before you met him again ?
A. I believe it was last fall or early in the spring.

Q. He came to you, did he 1
A. Yes, sir.

110

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q What did he come to you for ?

A. He heard that there was somebody up there that had a horse to sell, and there
was a man living across from me told hiia that I had a mare to sell.

Q. Did you have a horse to sell ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And did you sell it 1
A, Not to him.

Q. What did he say to you ?

A. That a young man there told him I had a horse to sell. I took him out to the
pasture field to look at the mare. He said he would have a man up next day to look at
the horse, and I believe he did on the next day.

Q. What else did he say ; nothing about this hog case 1
A. Not then.

Q. Nothing at all ?
A. Not a word.

Q. When did he come again ?

A. He came to the house and left word for me to go down, and I understood he
wanted me to bring the horse down too.

Q. That he wanted to have a talk to you ?

A. Yes, about the mare. He asked me what I wanted for the mare and I told him.
He says I have had a veterinary out there and he says she is not worth the amount that
you ask. I told him that I could get that much for her. He then got up in my buggy
to see how the mare drove and finally he talked about the hogs.

Q. Afid what did he say to you ?

A. He said " There's a good thing in it for you."

Q. You knew he meant financially 1

A. I did, when he explained it to me. I asked him how he meant. He says "There's
money in this for you. There is a big stink about these hogs and there is big money in
it," and he told me to go and see Bradford who is an attorney here in this city.

Q. Was Mr. Bradford to give you a good thing ?
A. No, I don't suppose he was.

Q. Who was ?

A. I never did find that out. I never looked for it.

Q. That is something to come in the future 1

A. I don't know. I never heard any talk about it.

Q. Nothing since Mr. McKinnon told you 1
A. No.

Q. And the good thing has not been produced yet
A. No.

Ill

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. So that it's in the future 1

A. I do not expect there ever will be. I don't believe there ever will be.

Q. Did you ever see Mr. Bradford ?
A. I did, just a little while.

Q, When?

A. Two or three weeks ago.

Q. Who was the next man you saw after talking with Mr. McKinnon, and having
a'conversation with him about these pigs ?

A. Mr. Hunter.

Q. Leaving out Mr. Hunter ?

A. This thing dropped for some time then, until Mr. St. John sent for me.

Q. You did not go to see Bradford ?
A. No. Not at that time.

Q. Did you go to him, or did he come to you ?
A. I went to see him.

Q. How did you come to go 1

A. McKinnon said he would not give evidence in this case unless I went to sae
Bradford and took the steps he wanted me to take.

Q. That you must go and see Bradford ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did Bradford say 1

A. He asked what I proposed to do, and he said he thought that I should take
criminal action against Hunter, and I said I don't want to do anything of the kind.

Q. Was there any conversation about McKinnon ?

A. Yes. He was going to write to Mr. Hunter, but he did not want to get McKin-
non brought into the case, because he was trying to get a job in the post office.

Q. Did you see McKinnon after seeing Bradford ?
A. Yes. He was there, outside in the hall.

Q. He went with you to Bradford's ?

A. He made an appointment with me to maeb Mr. Bradford.

Q. And he went with you to Bradford to see Bradford 1
A. Yes.

Q. And he stayed in the hall while you went in and had conversation with Mr.
Bradford 1

A. That was the first time.

Q. And when you came out, he went off?
A. I can't answer as to that.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. McKinnon didn;t go away with you 1
A. No.

Q. McKinnon stayed in the hall, and you went in and had a conversation with
Bradford ?

A. After he introduced me to Mr. Bradford.

Q. And he went out, and left you to have a private conversation with Mr.
Bradford?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you came out and went away, and McKinnon went away too ?
A. I did not see him when I came out of the door. He was not there.

Q. He did not go away with you ?
A. No.

Q. Before that, you had gone to see Mr. St. John because he had sent for you ?
A. Yes, sir,

Q. And did anyone go with you ?
A, No, sir.

Q. And you had a private conversation with Mr. St. John ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. On several occasions, and talked this matter over 1
A. At different times.

Q. And discussed it very fully ?

A. When he got my first statement about it there would be little things that I
could not think of just then, and I went back and told him all about it.

Q. So that he would be fully seized of all the evidence that you would give here ?
A- Yes, sir.

Q. And he put it down in writing 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you signed it f
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And it is practically the same as you have given here 1
A. A part of it. I think that was the way it was.

Q. Was there anything in that signed statement more than you have stated here ?
Did the written statement contain any more than you have stated here ?

A. 1 think it was practically the same.

Q. Your brother, I suppose, went to Mr. St. John also ?
A. Not then.

22 j. 113

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1. 1891-8

Q. But at another time 1
A. Yes.

Q. And he signed the statement, too ?
A. I suppose so.

Q. And the other witness, Dunn, who was with you at the killing. He went with
you, too, to see Mr. St. John ?

A. I don't know anything about that.

Q. Did your brother go to Bradford ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Did he see McKinnon 1
A. Yes.

Q. And did McKinnon make it a condition of his giving evidence that your brother
should go to see Mr. Bradford ?

A. No.

Q Now who is Henderson 1

A. Well, I just know him by " Henderson."

Q. What did he do 1

A. He comes to my slaughter house for dog meat.

Q. What is he, a young man or an old man 1
A. I should judge about 35 years.

Q. What does he do ?

A. I do not know that he is doing anything just now.

Q. What does he do when he does do anything 1
A. I cannot tell that.

Q. Does he ever work ?
A. I should judge so,

Q. Did you ever see him work ?

A. I haven't seen him until the last few months.

Q. Is he here ?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. When did you see him last 1

A. I saw him yesterday afternoon at my place. He came for dog meat,

Q. And he is principally going to the dogs is he ?
A. I do not know. You will have to ask him that.

Q. What does he do 1
A. I can't tell you.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You are acquainted with him ?
A. He is a dog fancier, I believe.

Q. And he does no work ?

A. Not that I know of at present.

Q. Did you ever know of him as doing any work ?
A. Yes.

Q. What at 1

A. Different things. He worked at the O.P.R. at different times, and I think he
worked at the Central Prison as a guard.

Q. What did he say to you ?
A. When?

Q. At the time he saw you. When did he first see you ?
A. Two or three months ago, I think.

Q. The first time you saw him, what did he say 'I

A. He said St. John wanted to see me but he didn't say what about.

Q. What was it about ?

A. I suppose he meant about the pigs, but he never told me.

Q. How was it you supposed Mr. St. John wanted to see you about the pigs ?
A. I can't say.

Q. Did Henderson say there was anything in it for you ?
A. No.

Q. That there was anything in it for him ?
A. No, sir,

Q. Did he tell you that he was going to give evidence ?
A. No, sir.

Q. But that Mr. St John wanted to see you 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What else did he say to yon 'I
A. I can't just remember.

Q. Anything else about pigs and Mr. St, John 1
A. I don't think so.

Q. And what did you say to him ?

A. I do not know what I said to him, but I know I didn't go down.

Q. Did you tell him you would go down 1
A. I do not remember.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you say to Henderson fehat you were going to see anybody ehe about the
matter ?

A. He suggested for me to go and see other parties.

Q. To see whom ?
A. Mr. Noxon.

Q. Of the Government employment 1

A. I suppose so. Henderson said he would go to see Mr, Noxon, and tell him about
St. John coming after me.

Q. He said that he would go and see Mr. Noxon .'
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Any person else ?
A. No, sir.

Q. And did you tell him you would go and see any person ?
A. No, sir.

Q. And that is the only other person that you had any conversation with about this
matter before you had given evidence here 1

A. Yes, sir, I believe it is.

Q. You state that McKinnon told you there was money in it ?
A. Yes.

Q. And to see Mr. Bradford ?
A. Yes.

Q. And that he would not give evidence here unless you did 1
A. Yes.

Q. And you went to see Mr. Bradford ?
A. Yes.

Q. And Henderson came to you and told you to go and see Mr. — and you went to
see Mr. St. John ?

A. Not at that time.

Q. But afterwards ?

A. Yes, sir.

•
Q. And you gave him your statement which you took down and you signed 1

A. Yes.

Q. So that there are these five that you have been discussing this matter with ?
A. I suppose that's the way you would put it.

Q. Not perhaps in the regular sequence, these are the five ?
A. I believe so. Yes.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

. . 1_

— : —

Q. You said that Warner told you something in whispers. I want to know what it
was he told you.

A. It would be something in regards to the hogs. I forget just what it was.

Q. But I want to know.

A. I do not remember just what it was.

Q. Yon have remembered quite a lot and you certainly ought to remember something
that he told you.

A. It might have been not to let these parties know anything about it. That is the
rest of the men that were helping.

'
Q. Try and remember what it was that was said in whisperings.

A . I cannot remember.

Q Why can't you remember these whisperings 1
A. It occurred so often that I can't remember.

Q. Tell us something of one instance.
A. It might have been to

Q. Don't tell us what it might have been. I want to know what it was.
A, I know it happened.

Q. That he came to you and whispered 1 It was a big open field there ?
A. No. It was in the shed.

Q. And he would take you away into a corner ]
A. No. He didn't.

Q. You simply have no recollection of what he said to you in whispers 1
A. No.

Q. Not at alii

A. 1 don't recollect anything at present.

Q. Did you tell Mr. St. John about the whispering ?
A. I don't know that I did.

Q. Or that he wnispered 1
A. I do not think so.

Q. You have been thinking about it a very long time.
A. How long ?

Q. Since November, I suppose ?
A. Yes.

Q. And during that time you have had it in your mind that Warner was whispering
something to you ?

A. Yes.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No 1.)

Q. What was he whispering ?

A. I forget ; there was something of these things that he wouldn't want the other
men to know. I can't tell exactly what it was.

Q. Perhaps it was that a certain hog should go into the fire.
A. No. He would speak that openly.

Q He would whisper something that was a crime almost 1
A. Not altogether a crime, I don't think.

Q. And you can't remember?
A. No.

Q. You said that pieces might be cut out of the flaps of the belly and the jaws with-
out being distinguished 1

A. Yes. That might be done.

Q. Now, did you do that ? A small strip off each flap ?
A. Yes. Wherever it was necessary to do it.

Q. Did you do it yourself ?
A. Certainly I did.

Q. How many 1
A. I can't ttJl you.

Q. How many pieces did you cut off ]

A. Wherever it was necessary to cut off a piece, I would take it out.

Q How much did you cut off 1

A. Oh, possibly an inch or a half an inch in a strip

Q. You possibly might cut off half an inch. I want you to give something definite.
A. Do you mean in regards to the weight or how 1

Q. As to the width of the strip.

A. You could take off a piece about half an inch or an inch.

Q. What would be the object of cutting it off ?

A. Supposing it would be discoloured in spots, by taking it off right along it would
not be noticed.

Q. Thet e would show discoloration just along the belly 7
A. In some of them.

Q. How many ?

A. Possibly five or six.

Q; The majority of the spote were on the backs ?

A. Not the majority, but quite a few, in the backs and on the backs, neck, and
& round the hams and face*.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.)

Q, Just one other question. Where is Mr. Bradford's office ?
A. On King street.

Q. Whereabouts?

A. Corner of King and Jordan streets, I think. Up over the Bank of Commerce,
I think it is.

Q. And has he got a partner 7

A. Yes, there is a partner, because the card that was given to me, Mr. Bradfords's
name was in the centre. I forget who the other partners were.

Q. Where is Mr. St. John's office ?
A. On Toronto street.

FRANK DUNN, sworn : —
Examined by Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. Francis Dunn is your name ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where do you live
A. Dovercourt village.

Q. You assisted in the killing
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is your business
A. Poultry dealer.

Q. Have you any experience in the killing of hrgs
A. I have killed a lot.

Q. What was your foi mer business ?
A. Farmer.

Q. How long have you been a farmer ?
A. Born and raised there.

Q. What section?

A. Etobicoke township.

Q. Did you hear Mr. Hunter's evidence the other day here
A, Yes, sir.

Q. What do you say as to that evidence ?
A. It's all right for a yarn.

Q. Was the statement correct about the hogs being all sound ?
A. It was not.

Q. Where you present at the killing I
A. Yes, sir.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Have you had any experience in bog cholera before ?
A. Yes, sir. On a couple of occasions.

Q. You heard Dr. Smith's evidence where he said that not more than 40% of hogs
in a herd would take cholera and the rest would be sound. Is that your experience.

A. I think not.

Q. Have you had any personal experience with hog cholera in hogs of your own ?
A. Yes.

Q. How long ago 1

A. I cannot give the positive date, but it would be between 10 and 13 years ago.

Q. How many times did you have hog cholera in your herd, and the first time you
had it, how many hogs had you 1

A. Forty-two.

Q. How many of them died ?

A. The entire lot died or got so bad that they couldn't get up, and they had to be
killed.

Q. You had hog cholera the second time j how many hogs did you have then ?
A. I would not be positive whether it was 7 or 8.

Q. How many died that second time 1

A. When we found out what it was, we knocked them in the head when they got
disabled.

Q Did you open any of these hogs ?
A. Two or three out of the first lot.

Q. What was the outside appearance of those you opened ?

A. They were choking and coughing, and they would fall over and struggle.

Q. And what was the condition of the entrails of those you opened ?
A. They seemed to be inflamed and hot.

Q. How did they compare with the 97 hogs that went to the Central Prison ?
A. They presented pretty nearly the same appearance.

Q. You were present at the killing ; what part did you take in the killing on the
13th and 14th July, 1896?

A. I helped to do the holding and on one or two occasions stuck the pigs myself,
and done all the scalding.

/
Q. Where you present at the sticking of every pig in the building ?

A. Pretty nearly, I think.

Q. What pait did you take in the sticking, apart from one or two you stuck your-
self 1

A. Holding them for Mr. Newton.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you hear Newton's evidence the other day in regard to what took place
there 1

A. Yea, sir.

Q. Did you hear the evidence sjiven here to-day ?
A. Yes, air.

Q. What do you say about that evidence of Newton's ?
A. It is correct, to the best of my opinion.

Q. Newton says he stuck three hogs that were in a dying condition. Is that true ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How did you know that it is true 1
A. I held their legs.

Q. It has also been stated that he stuck one hog that was dead. Is that true ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How do you know 1

A. Because I turned it up on its back to be stuck.

Q. Is there any doubt about that 1
A. Not the least.

Q. Who was present superintending and ordering the sticking of these pigs 1
A. Mr. Warner.

Q. Did he order those three dying pigs and that one dead pig to be stuck 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you hear him do so ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was he present at all the sticking ?
A. He was present nearly all the time.

Q. How many pigs that were within the building that were living were stuck and
dressed or attempted to be dressed.

A. All.

Q. There were no exceptions ?
A. No.

Q. How many were dead within the building that were not stuck ?
A. I cannot answer that.

Q. A number?

A. There was quite a number.

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61* Victoria. Appendix (No. ].) 1897-K

Q. Is it true that when you would go into the pen and stick a half a dozen for the
purpose of them, and the pigs apparently seemed to be all in the same condition, tha
when yon went back to get the next contingent that some of the hogs in the pen would
be actually dead ?

A. Dead and dying.

Q. That is true. Have you a clear recollection of that ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You scalded all the hogs ?
A. Yes.

Q. Where any hogs scalded that yon took out of the scalding barrel and threw on
the fire, because they showed so much discoloration ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many of that kind would there be ?

A. Five or six or perhaps more, but I would not be positive.

Q. Where there any hogs cleaned and dressed and hung up on the hooks that were
taken down and thrown on the fire 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were positive about that 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you see it yourself ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many hogs would be cleaned and dressed in your opinion — about how many
— that were taken off the hooks after they were dressed and thrown on the fire because
of that bad appearance 1

A. Oh, there would be about 5 or 6. I can't say to one or two anyway.

Q. There were a number of them ?
A. Yes.

Q. There might be more. Newton says there might be eleven, What do you
say as to that?

A, I would not like to say distinctly as to the number, but there was in all
probability that many.

Q. Did you see the entrails of the hogs that were killed ? About how many of
them did you see the entrails of ?

A. I saw the entrails of a large number of them.

Q. What was your business 1 You did all the scalding 'I
A. Yes.

Q. And helped to dress the hogs?
A. I helped to drees the hogs.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 18!->7-S

Q. In your operations at scalding and cleaning the hogs, how far were you away
from Newton ?

A. Four or five feet away— not more.

Q. The scalding, killing, opening and dressing was all in the narrow alleyway
at the north end of the piggery, so that you were under a roof during the whole of
the operations there 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was the condition of the entrails of those hogs ?
A. They were inflamed and discolored.

Q. Were there — how many did you say you were positive that you saw out of the
ninety-seven that went to the Central Prison that you were prepared to say you saw
yourself 1

A. More than half of them.

Q. There is no doubt about that 1
A. Yes.

Q You were within four or five feet ?
A. Yes.

Q Was there a hog there that afternoon, killed and dressed that was sound I
A. No.

Q Are you positive as to that ?

A. Wei), I can't see how they could in the condition they were in with spots on
them.

Q. Were there spots on any of those hogs that went to the Central Prison that
were drawn away in the wagons 1 How many would there be 1

A. A large quantity of them.

Q. Are you positive about that ?
A. Yes.

Q. You saw them yourself ?
A. Yes.

Q. You superintended the outside dressing of them ?
A. Yes.

Q. It was said here that some spots were as large as your hand on the backs of these
hogs. Was that correct ?
A. Yee, sir.

Q. Some smaller ?
A. Oh, yen.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897 8

Q. Where were these spots located on these hogs *?

A. On different places on the backs, hams, bellies and necks and between the ears
and smaller spots on their sides.

Q. Were there any spots between their legs that yon noticed in opening them up1?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. So that the majority of these hogs had spots on them, that were sent to the
Central Prison ?

A. Yes, sir.

CTT Q- It has been given in evidence here that some of the hogs had pieces of meat cut
out of them, and also that there were not pieces taken out of them. Which is true ?

A. That they were cut out.

Q. How do you know ?

A. I held out the front legs for Newton to cut them out of several of them.

Q. So that you also saw it done — the cutting out of these pieces ?
A. Yes.

Q. By the way, just describe what was cut out and where.

A. It was cut out of the necks and down the belly between the front legs when
there was anything there to cut out.

Q. Where else 1

A. Out of the bellies some small pieces trimmed from the breasts where there were
small spots.

Q. As a matter of fact, the disease spots in this condition are only skin deep in
appearance ; is not that true 1

A. They only appear to be skin deep.

Q. That is a peculiarity of the disease. Who ordered the trimming of this meat,
the cutting of the pieces out t

A Mr. Warner.

Q. Did you hear him giving directions 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was he standing by when these pieces were being cut out 1
A. He was standing by and gave orders to do it.

Q. You have a distinct recollection of that ?
A. Yes.

Q, Was Hunter there giving orders about the dressing of the meat ? He was there
only once or twice during the day 1

A. Yes, sir.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What would be the average weight of these hogs that were killed and dressed
and sent to the Central Prison ?

A. Between 100 and 120 pounds, I should think.

Q. It has been given in evidence here that, according to the weights, these hogs
would be about 85 Ibs. on the average ; what do you say about that ?

A. I think they would weigh more.

Q. Have you any doubt that these hogs weighed at least 1 20 on an average 1
A. I wouldn't like to swear positive to the weight.

Q. How much would some of the largest weigh 1 How heavy would be some of the
largest hogs you dressed 1

A. Some of them would be 300 Ibs. or over.

Q. Were there many of them that would be less than 80 pounds 1
A. I suppose there would be quite a lot of them less than that.

Q. Those that were sent to the Central Prison, 1 am speaking about. Did you see
the condition of the gullets of those hogs ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What were they like 1

A. They were swelled terribly and inflamed.

Q. All that you saw were 1
A. Yes, sir.

6th January, 1898.

FRANCIS DUNN, recalled : —
Examined by Mr. ST. JOHN : —

Q. Were the bowels always inflamed in the hogs you saw 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was the cough present among all the hogs ?
A. Yes, it was quite frequent.

Q. Then the cough among the pigs was prevalent 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Among those you killed and dressed 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were red or purple spots diffused over the surface of many pigs 1
A. Yes, a large number.

Q. How did they appear, surface deep or deeper in the flesh 1 How deep were the spots?
A. Where they were cut through, they just appeared to be surface deep.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. In your opinion, were the hogs that were killed and sent to the cold storage rooms
sent away, as has been spoken of ; was that meat fit for human food ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Now, Mr. Dunn, I want to ask yon one or two questions in relation to one of the
principal authorities on the subject of hog cholera — Miller and Tuller.

Mr. GARROW objected that witness was not an expert witness, and could not be
asked to give expert evidence.

Discussion ensued.

Examination by Mr. ST. JOHN continued : —

Q. What condition were the spleens in in those hogs ?
A. I do not understand that part of it at all.

Q. You do not understand what the spleen is, that part of it ?
A. No. *

Q. How many hogs of this drove in your judgment would there be with red or purple
spots diffused over the surface 1

A. A large number of them. I can't positively say as to the quantity.

(^. Describe those spots on the surface ?
A. The size or the color 1

Q. Both.

A. Oh, the spots varied from small spots to the size of your hand.

Q. Where were these located ?

A. On the backs, shoulders, necks, bellies and some small spots on the sides.

Q. Have you any doubt about that 1
A. No, sir.

Q. Would any person making a careful examination of these hogs fail to see them !
A. I am not prepared to say how they would be after being a night in the cold
storage, as I do not understand it.

Q. But that was the condition they were in when they left the piggery on the vragon 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Apart from the hogs that were within the building, all of which you have stated
were stuck and cleaned, that were alive or attempted to be cleaned and dressed, where
were the remainder of the hogs ?

A. Some running round the yard and others enclosed in the outside pens.

Q. How many would be there ?
A. Large and small, too ?

Q. Yes.

A. There was a large number, but I can't say how many there would be.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Dr. Smith has given in evidence that all the large hogs were in an apparently
sound condition when he was there on Saturday, except about a dozen.

At this point the CHAIRMAN interrupted to call attention to the fact that Mr. ST.
JOHN had been himself underlining certain portions of the copy of the evidence which
had been handed in by the stenographer.

Examination resumed by Mr. ST. JOHN : —

Q. Dr. Smith in his evidence stated that there were not over twelve hogs diseaied
the day he was there on Saturday, the llth July. What do you say as to that ? By the
13th would the whole drove be so badly diseased as you said 1 I will read you what Dr.
Smith said. He answered " No, sir, I do not know of anything in my experience like
it. There were not over twelve hogs diseased the day we were there."

The CHAIRMAN : —

Q. (To Mr. ST. JOHN) Was there nothing else after that ]

Mr. ST. JOHN : —

A. Nothing whatever to affect in any shape or form. If there is, Mr. Garrow is
here to look after it.

By Mr. St. JOHN :—

Q. How many hogs did you see diseased on Monday and Tuesday, 13th and 14th,
inside and outside upon the premises ?

A. All, to the best of my knowledge.

Q. What was the condition of all the hogs outside the building 1
A. They were in a dead and dying condition.

Q. Did you see many dead ?
A. A large number.

Q. Have you any recollection of the condition of the large sows outside the building
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What were they like ?

A. There were some of them terribly discolored, and could not raise up the hind
quarters at all. They could not get up.

Q. How many were in that condition, that is, large BOWS ?
A. The most of them.

Q. How many were there ?

A. I wouldn't be positive. I would judge there would be between ten and fifteen.

Q. Have you any recollection of any particular thing that took place to one large
sow and her little brood following her on Monday the 1 3th ?

A. No.

Q. Have you no recollection of what was done in regard to one particularly large
brood sow and her pigs on that day, in the outer yard 1

A. Nothing distinctly that I can call to memory on Monday.

127

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. On Tuesday 1

A. All that was outside, with the exception of one hog was knocked in the head and
burned on Tuesday.

Q. Do you recollect saying — were you present, when Mr. Warner asked Newton to
knock on the head that big sow that wasn't able to walk round and to knock her on the
head with the hammer 1

A. I recollect his going up to do something of the kind, but I didn't see it. I was
attending to my own work.

Q. How many did you see dead in the outer yard 1

A. I can't answer that question, for they were lying dead and dying all over.

Q. What became of all those hogs that were outside 1
A. They were burned on the fire.

Q. Evidence has been given here, Mr. Dunn, about some four or five sows that were
killed and dressed on the evening of the second day. Have you any knowledge of that ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What took place ?

A. As to the killing of them 1

Q. Yes. If they were killed.

A. Oh, they were killed. Killed and dressed the same as the rest.

Q. Under what conditions were they killed ? Why were they killed last ?

A. I understood Warner to say that Hunter authorised them to be killed and
dressed.

Q. I see. And then you killed and dressed them ?
A. Yes.

Q. Have you any knowledge of the condition of the caul fat taken from the pigs
that were dressed 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Just tell the Committee what you know about it.

A. Well, on the Monday Newton saved it for me, to the best of my recollection, in
an old wheelbarrow or box. I don't know exactly what it was. I intended to render it
for wagon grease. The best of it was saved on the first day, but none on the second day.

Q. What did you do with it, and what did you learn about it 1

A. Newton informed me when I was going home that Warner said the hogs had

cholera and not to use it. I fetched it home and the Missis when she heard about it,

would not use it at all about the house, and 1 burned it.

Q, What was the condition of the hogs on the second day, compared with the first

A. They were in a worse condition ?

128

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Was any hog killed and dressed and taken away in your judgment fit for human
food ]

A. No, sir.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : —

Q. Newton told you on the first day that the hogs had cholera 1

A. In the evening.

Q. You are sure about that ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Because Newton swore here that he didn't know they had cholera at all.

By. Mr. GARROW : —

Q. Where do you carry on your business?

A. I live on Somerset avenue, Dovercourt Village.

Q. You said you are what 1
A. A poultry dealer.

Q. Have you got a shop or warehouse 1
A. No, sir.

Q. No place of business ?

A. Nothing more than my house.

Q STou did not appear to be very busy about the middle of July, 1896. There was
no poultry coming in about that time, I suppose ?

A. No.

Q. So that you were able to go and do labourer's work at bog killing ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did you get for it ?

A. Four dollars for the two days.

Q. That's just about the ordinary wage, I suppose ?

A. It was about the smallest wages 1 ever knew of for the time we worked.

Q. Hard work keeping your eyes upon the the spleens and gullets and everything of
that kind ?

A. I don't know anything about that.

Q. Did you know what they were going to do with those hogs ?
A. No. Not in the least.

Q. You did not dream that they were going to eat them or offer them to be eaten by
anyone else ?

A. No, sir.
• 23 J. 129

61 .Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What would be the object in your mind of killing, scalding and dressing these
hogs?

A. Well, as you have already told jne, I was hired as a labouring man to do this
work, and I wasn't supposed to know.

Q. You might have thought a good deal. What did you think they were going to
with them ?

A. I didn't; know.

Q. I did not ask you what you knew, but what you thought.
A. I just had the idea they were not fit for use.

Q. I know, but did you think they were going to be used ?
A. I have told you already I didn't know.

Q. Did you think they were going to be used for food 1
A. No, sir,

Q. What, then did you suppose they were being put into the cold storage room for,
while others were being burned 1

A. I did not know they were going into the cold storage — I knew they were going
to the Central Prison — until the second evening.

Q. You did not know, didn't inquire, and didn't feel the necessity of learning t
A. No, sir, it was none of my business.

Q. How many hogs were there altogether ? How many did you kill in the two days ?
A. And dressed to go to the Prison 1

Q. No. Altogether.

Q. How many did you kill and get rid of ?

A. I did not count what was there at all. As near as I can remember there would
1t>e between 110 and 115 that we dressed and tried to dress.

Q. And at least as many more that were not dressed at all or burned t
A. Yes. I thick fully more than that.

Q. According to you there was no difference between those that were dressed and
those that were not ; they were all diseased ; it was just a question of a little more or a
little less 1

A. Yes. That was my idea.

Q. Did they dress some that were as much diseased as some that they destroyed by
burning 1

A. There was some that they tried to dress that was as much diseased.

Q. And those after being dressed, the advance of the disease was such that they
were burned ?

A. Yes,

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6 1 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q How many of that kind do you recollect ?

A.. Oh, there would be ten or twelve, I would judge. I didn't keep any count.

Q. There was then a delibarate intention to separate th^sa that were slightly diseased
from those that were most diseased 1

A. Yes.

Q. Had you any instructions on that point]
A. Newton had.

Q. Did you hear them given to him ?
A, Yes, sir.

Q. What were these instructions ?

A. Well, sometimes he was instructed to cut pieces out and to see if he could make
the hog pass.

Q. I am not talking about that. What general instructions were there given to
separate them ?

A. I did not hear any instructions at the beginning.

Q. What you meant were instructions given from the time to time about cutting
pieces out 1

A. Yes.

Q. Who gave those instructions 1
A. Mr. Warner.

Q . How often would he give instructions of that kind ?

A. Oh, he was there back and forward all the time. He would be there only just
when he would come back from taking pigs out to burn them.

Q Was Warner the head man there? Nobody else gave orders but him 1
A. No, nobody else.

Q. And you heard him giving orders from time to time ?
A. Yes.

Q Did you see Hunter there at all ?
A. Yes.

Q. At what time 1

A. Early in the morning, and sometime during the forenoon.

Q. Just once ?

A. He was twice. Once in the morning and once in the* forenoon, and I wouldn't
be certain whether he was there in the afternoon at all.

Q. On the second day 1

A. I would not be positive ; I think he was there.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Q. Did he give any orders whiie he was there ?

A. Not that I heard of. The only remarks I heard him say was on the first
morning, when he said " Hurry up, and get started."

Q. Did you hear him say anything on the second day 1
A. No, sir.

Q, Did he speak at all when he was there 1
A, Only to Newton and Warner.

Q. Not to you ?
A, No.

Q. Your job was simply that ©f assistant. You are not a butcher ?

A. Not a practical butcher, although I have done quite a lot of hog butchering.

Q, You were helping with the scraping, I suppose, and that sort of thing?
A. I done all the scalding and helped to drees some of them.

Q. What did the other Newton do ?
A. William Newton y

A. He hauled the hogs down to the Central Prison.

Q. He was not at the butchering at all 1
A. Only of the first lot.

Q. How many would that be ?

A. About ten or perhaps eleven or twelve . Just until we could get the first load
ready.

Q. You told us yesterday that you had been a farmer and had some unfortunate
experience of your own with hog cholera 1

A. Yee,

Q. Where did you farm ?
A . Etobicoke township.

Q. And was it on the same farm that disease broke out twice 1
A* Yes.

Q. How long ago 1

A. Sometime between ten and thirteeen years ago.

Q. Both in the same year ?
A. No, sir.

Q. How long a time between them 1
A. A. year and a half, or two years.

Q. How many hogs had you in the first place ?
A. Forty-two.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What ages ; grown up or young hogs 1
A. Pretty well grown up hogs.

Q. How many had you when it broke out the second time t
A. Seven or eight.

Q. How long did the disease take in the first drove till it was so advanced that you
had^to kill the whole drove 1

A. Three weeks or a month.

Q. How many of the forty-two had died in that time ?
A. A large number of them.

Q. What proportion 1
A. Fully two-thirds.

Q. So that they just died off from the disease ?
A. Yes.

Q. Was there an official inspector to see them 1

A. I don't think there was at that time. I never heard at all of one.

Q. No one came to you ?
A. No.

Q. Did you know what it was ?

A. The veterinary that lived in that neighborhood pronounced it cholera.

Q. What was his name ?

A.jl can give his name if necessary, but don't think it necessary.

Q. Well, we're a little curious ?
A. T can give it if required.

Mr. CHAIRMAN. — Give it.

By Mr. GARROW. — Q. Why make a secret about it ?
A. Anderson was his name.

Q. Where is he now 1

A. I do not know. That is the reason that I did not want to give it, because I can't
backbit up.

Q. Is be dead or alive 1
A. I don't know,

Q. Where was he living at that time?
A. Islington village.

Q. And he saw the drove and pronounced it hog cholera t
A. Yes.

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61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You kept them three weeks or a month before you destroyed them 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you kill all that was left when he went there ?

A, All. There wasn't one- third of them left. They got so that they couldn't get
on their feet or eat anything, and we knocked them on the head.

Q. What did you do with the bodies ?
A. I buried them.

Q. You didn't burn them 1
A. No, sir.

Q. When was it you opened the two hogs ?
A. When they first started to die.

Q. Who was with you when you opened them ?

A. The man who was working for me. The way we opened them was, we were feed-
ing them with boiled potatoes and as they choked we thought they choked with potatoes.

Q. The hogs you killed at the Humber, the entrails were in the same condition as
thoee ?

A. Yes. They appeared to be about the same.

Q. There was this marked inflammation of the internals and redness
A. Yes, and they were hot.

Q. How many of these hogs did you open in that herd of yours ?
A. Two or three.

Q. Why did you open two or three 1

A. To satisfy myself whether they were choked from eating potatoes or not.

Q. Why did you open them 1
A. That is my own pleasure.

Q. But why?

A. I have already answered.

Q. You did open two or three ?
A. Yes.

Q. Just from curiosity ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. So that you say every carcase would be marked and bear its own mark of disease
on every hog that you dreseed that day. You say they were all diseased and the disease
left a certain mark. Is it a fact that every carcase that was dressed bore its own mark
of disease ?

A. I didn't express it in that way.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No, 1.) 1897-8-

Q. I want you to say what.

A. I said to the best of my judgment they were all diseased, but I did not say that
they all showed it.

Q. But I want you to say further. Did all the carcases show that 1
A. A large number of them.

Q. Would you say the nine-tenths of them did 1
A. I wouldn't put it that far — fully one half.

Q. Would fully one-half bear external marks of disease that anyone could see f
A. I did not look at them that close.

Q. Would any man see it if experienced 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Out of how many hogs had parts been cut ?

A. I would not be positive as to the quantity, but there was a large number.

Q. You mean quite a large number of carcases ?
A. Yes. That there were pieces cut out of them.

Q. That would be very apparent to anyone looking at them — that pieces had been
cut away ?

A. No. It did not show very much, with the exception of one hog.

Q. Why didn't it show 1

A. By cutting a straight jiece off, and after the hog cools, you can't see very well
where it's cut off.

Q. Off where?

A. Off the beJl'es, straight down.

Q. Inside or out side ?
A. Outside.

Q. What particular reason would there be for cutting out the bellies. Is that a
place where it showed disease more easily ?

A. It might be shown there.

Q. I am not asking you experimentally.
A. It was cut off the neck also.

Q. Could you cut the neck without anybody seeing it ?
A. Yes, by cutting the strips right down.

Q. Ye?, you might enlarge the aperture a little 1
A. By a certain amount.

Q. But you cannot make any cuts or take off any blue or purple spots off the carcase
itself without being seen. Was that done in any instance 1

A. Any other place except where they were opened up 1

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Yes?
A. No, sir.

Q. So that the only cutting done was done where they were opened up
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Anywhere else?
A. No, sir.

Q. And even an expert could not observe that there had been any cutting at all t
A. Yes.

Q. Were there any purple or blue spots that were not cut out at all 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Somebody described that they were as large as a man's hand. Was that you ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And how many hogs would there be marked as large as your hand, probably 1

A. Ob, probably' not a very large quantity that large. But I said to the best of my
opinion that they varied from very small to that size.

Q. But what proportion would have the large spots ?
A. Not a very large quantity.

Q. Give us something more definite, would there be five, ten or twenty ? ,
A. There might be ten and there might not be over four or five.

Q. From four to ten?
A. Yes.

Q. That had purple marks on them as large as your hand ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And at least 50% would have marks of some kind ?
A. Yes.

Q. To put the matter fairly, no man, let alone an expert, could look at these car-
casses and not see that there was something wrong ?

A. No. Not when they left the piggery.

Q. Do you know of any process that would obliterate or obscure these marks so as
to^blind an expert afterwards ?

A. No, not unless the cold storage would do it.

Q. Only if the ioe may restore the natural oolor 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. So that if the ice did not restore the natural color, no one would fail to see that
they were diseased ?

A. Yes, sir.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You did not explain — perhaps it is a matter of inference more than anything
else, why in the cases you speak of a narrow strip was cut off the belly.

A. It was easier done, I suppose Newton thought, than just cutting a chunk out.

Q. But why cut a narrow strip that wouldn't be observed and leave the marks on
the back of the hogs ?

A. It could not be cut out of the back.

Q. It coujd not be. There is no object in cutting it out of the belly if you left the
marks on the back. Just explain that.

A. I can't give any explanation. You will have to ask Newton or Warner. They
are the men who did it.

Q. The fact remains that strips were cut off the belly where no one would see it,
and these marks were left on the back 1

A. Yes.

Q. You know who Dr. Smith is t
A. Yes.

Q. Head of the Veterinary College ?
A. Yes. I supposed he was.

Q. Do you know who Dr. Sweetapple is 1

A. No. Never saw him till he was here the other day. I have known Dr. Smith
for the last 20 or 25 years.

Q. You didn't see the hogs on the Saturday before the killing 1
A. No.

Q. You first saw them on Monday morning 1

A. Yes.

•

Q. Didn't know they were being killed for food ? Whether there was any distinction
between the sick and well and the very sick and less sick. You didn't know why they
were forwarding them down to the cold storage or to the place at the Central Prison.
These things you didn't know and didn't think about ?

A. No.

Q. You saw a herd of hogs all sick. That is what you told us, very sick, all of them 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And unfit for human food ?
A. Yes, air.

Q. How long would you say they had been in that condition 1
A. I don't know.

Q. Give us your opinion. How long do you think 1

A. I don't know how long it would take to get that way.

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61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Q. What do you think ? Surely you were able to think about that.
A. I would judge they had been about a week or 10 days.

Q. They were all dead and dying, that was your expression, the whole drove,
A. No. I did not express that.

Q. The whole drove, you have told us, were all sick and diseased.
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And they would all have been diseased for some time, you think ?
A. I think it was likely they would.

Q. They would at least have been diseased on the previous Saturday, would they K

A. I think they would. Unless the hot season of the year would make them sa
quicker.

Q. You think that a drove that had a small percentage sick on Saturday would be
all infected on Monday ?

A. I cannot answer that question.

Q. If* Dr. Smith eays he thought there were 12 pigs sick on Saturday would you be
prepared to contradict that ? Or would you agree with Dr. Smith 1

A. I would think that the disease must have grown pretty fast. I am not aaying
that Dr. Smith is wrong.

Q, Would you pretend to set up your knowledge against Dr. Smith's knowledge, in
a case of that kind ?

A, I would not pretend to.

Q. And if Dr. Smith is telling the truth, I suppose he would be right and you were
wrong ?

A. It is not for me to say. It is not for me to judge Dr. Smith.

Q. Is it a matter of opinion whether there was disease among all the hogs or not 1
You might have been mistaken, I suppose, when you say that all the hogs were diseased ?
A. I said to the best of my knowledge.

Q. And you admit, as a human being, that you might have been mistaken, and that
they were not all diseased ?

A. I have already given my answer, to the best of my opinion.

Q. And you may be mistaken, I suppose. Will you admit that ?
A. No. I will not.

Q. Will you admit that there were varying degrees of the disease, some a little less
sick than the others •?

A. Yes. Some of them.

Q. Some of them pretty nearly well ?
A. I did not see them.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q They were all pretty sick, were they 1

A. I answered you that before, that they were in different stages of the disease.

Q. But none of them were well ? All of them were pretty sick ?

Q. Answer the question, Mr. Dunn. I want to know whether all the hogs were
manifestly very sick hogs ?

A. I told you they were varying in the disease.

Q. But none of them were well. Will you say that all were sick ?
A. I gave you it before. That is in my own good judgment.

The CHAIRMAN : — You can surely answer that question.
WITNESS : — I did answer it. They were varying in the disease.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : —

Q. How many hogs were killed, dressed and taken away on the first day ?
A. Fifty-four to the best of my opinion.

Q. How many hogs were killed and scalded and had to be thrown on the fire the
first day ?

A. Two.

Q. How many were killed and scalded and dressed on the first day and taken down
off the hook and burned 1

A. Two or three, I think. I won't be positive.

Q. The greater number were on the second day ?
A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. GERMAN : —

Q. You did say, Dunn, that some hogs that were dressed and hung on the hooks
were afterwards taken down and put on the fire ?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, who instructed that these should be taken down and put on the fire?
A. Mr. Warner.

Q. Warner was there in charge of the work, was he ?
A. I expect so,

Q. It was Warner who was giving the directions to you and the other men engaged
in the hog killing ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And it was Warner who was examining the hogs to see which of them should be
hung and taken to the Central Prison, and which should be put on the fire ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now you said in answer to a question from Mr. Garrow, that Newton had
instructions aa to separating the good from the bad hogs ?
A. I do not think I did.

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Victoria. . Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Well, now, excuse me, I must have that because you answered that question in
that connection: an 1 immediately backed out on that. Now, you were there just as a
labouring man ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You have had no experience in hog killing particularly, more than any other
labouring man ?

A. Oh, I suppose I have had, unless it is a regular hog butcher, as much as most
men,

Q. You were not there at all with any idea of inspecting these hoge, to see which of
them was fit for human and which was not ?

A. No, I was not an inspector.

Q And that did not enter into your mind at all to discriminate between the good
and the bad hogs, as far as their fitness for human food was concerned ?

A. No sir., It was not concerning me.

Q. That was what Mr. Warner was there for ]

A. I don't know what Warner's business was, I am sure.

Q. That was what he was doing, separating the good from the bad j
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And he was examining, I suppose, the hogs as they were hung up on the hooks,
was he -?

A. Yes, sometimes.

Q. Was he not all the time 1

A. No, he was backwards and forwards to different places.

Q Of course he would not have to stand by the hogs all the time, but he was there
examining the hogs as they were hung up to distinguish the good from the bad 1

A. Yes, he examined the hogs.

Q. With a view to distinguish the good from the bad, didn't he ?

A. Distinguish them ? 1 don't know how he distinguished them. He picked out
some of the worst.

Q. You were not with him were you ?

A. I was present within a few feet of him.

Q. Attending to your work 1
A. Ye?.

Q. And he was attending to the hogs, seeing which was good and which was bad 1
A. When you put the word good in I can't answer that question

Q. You can.
A. No.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q I suppose Warner would have just as good an idea and perhaps a better idea, as
to what hogs were fit for human food than you would have ?

A. I do not know anything about Warner's qualifications.

Q. Hunter was there also 1

A. He visited the place two or three times during the day.

Q And saw the hogs that were dressed and hung up 1

A. I cannot say whether he saw any hung up and dressed or not !

Q. What time was he there ?

A- Between 3 and 4 o'clock Monday morning, and to the best of my opinion through
the forenoon, sometime between 10 and 11, as near as I can tell,

Q. Was he there in the afternoon ?
A, I would not be positive.

Q. Was he there on the Tuesday ?

A, Once. I would not be certain of more than once.

Q. And being there, he must have seen the hogs dressed and hung up ?
A. He wasn't there only a short time.

Q. He must have seen the hogs that were hung up.
A. There were not many there.

Q. He must have seen some there 1

A. I suppose those that were there, but they were taken away as soon as they were
hung up.

Q. Hunter would have as good an idea as you would have about what was fit for
human food 1

A. I do not know anything about Hunter. I only saw him there,

Q. Do you know about Harris, the wholesale butcher 1
A. I know him when I see him.

Q. Do you know anything about his ability about discriminating about pork ?
A. I don't know anything of his qualifications.

Q. You say that Newton told you on Monday night that Warner said the hogs had
cholera, and for you not to use the fat 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you understand that Warner had told Newton not to use the fat ?
A. No, I did not. I asked Newton if it was not going to be of use to save some for
me as I wanted to get some for wagon grease.

Q. And on Monday night Newton told you that Warner said the hogs had cholera,
and the fat could not be used 1

A. I do not know that he referred to that word. He said I had better not use it.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Now was there any talk going on between you and the other employees that day?
These hogs were all discussed amongst you, I suppose.

A. They were all strangers, with the exception of Newton, to me, and I didn't have
much conversation.

Q. Did you have any ?

A. Not that I am aware of.

Q How soon after the killing did you have any conversation with anybody about
these hogs ?

A. I did not have any conversation with anyone that I am aware of till within a
month ago.

Q. You had never thought about it at all since then 1
A. I never bothered anyone about it.

Q No person had spoken to you about it 1
A. No.

Q. The hogs were killed in July of 1896, and you thought nothing about it nor said
anything about it from that time till a month ago. Had you said anything or thought
anything about it ?

A. I never bothered anything about it.

Q. Had you thought or talked anything about it 1 Answer the question. You can
answer it.

A. I think I have the right to consider. I want to call to memory whether I had
said anything to anyone. I don't think I did.

Q. Whom did you first have a talk to about a month ago ?

A. I was sent for to go to a place. A man came to go to his place as a party wanted
to see me.

Q Who was the party that came to you ?
A. Fred Newton.

Q Is that the one that was giving evidence here as a butcher 1
A. The one that was giving evidence.

Q He said a man wanted to see you — who was it ?
A. Mr. St. John.

Q. And you went with Newton ?
A. I went up to Newton's house.

Q. Where did you see Mr. St. John ?
A. There.

Q Who was with him ?

A. There was no one with him to my knowledge.

Q Did you see anybody else there ?

A No. Only Mrs. Newton. And I saw a man in the slaughter house shortly after.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

_ - .

Q. Who was he?
A. Mr. Burns.

Q Who is "Mr. Burns ?

A. A wholesale butcher and cattle dealer.

<^. Well, then, you gave Mr. St. John your statement, did you1?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And he took it down in writing ?
A. Yes.

Q. And you signed it ?
A. Yes.

Q. Did you see Mr. St. John again after that ?
A. I seen him here on several occasions.

Q. But before you came to this Committee meeting ?
A. Yes.

Q. Where was that 1
A. In Mr. Newton's.

Q. Mr. St. John came up there again, did he ?
A. Yes.

Q. Who was with him that time 1
A. No one.

Q. Did you ever see Mr. Bradford ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Ever hear anything about him ?
A. No, sir.

Q. And did Newton tell you there was something in it ?
A. No, sir.

Q. He just came after you and said Mr. St. John was there and wanted to see you ?

A. I don't think he remarked that St. John was there — just that there was a party
At the house that wanted to see me.

Q. What was it that he wanted ?
A. I can't state that.

Q. How far do you live from Newton's?
A. I suppose 200 or 250 yards.

Q. Then on your second meeting with Mr. St. John at Newton's house, what was done t
A. Nothing in particular.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Well, you didn't sit still and keep Quiet. You did samething. You talked, I
suppose. What was said or done ?

A. Mr. St. John took a short statement of my evidence.

Q. He had already taken a statement of your evidence on the first occasion 1
A. Yes.

•

Q. And he wanted to supplement it to get something further ?
A. I don't understand that word supplement.

Q. He wanted to get something more from you than he got on the first occasion I
A. Yes.

Q. How long were you together on that occasion ?
A, Not over fifteen or twenty minutes.

Q. When rtd you see him again before this Committee meeting ?
A, I did not see him before at the Oommittee meeting.

Q. Only on those two occasions ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. I suppose you frequently had talks with Newton about the matter after giving
your statement to Mr. St. John ?

A. No, sir.

Q. None at all?
A. No, sir.

Q. Did Newton never say anything about it ?

A. No, sir. I never had any particular talks about it at all whatever.

Q. No particular talks. Well, didn't you have any talks 1

A. Nothing more than to ask what I thought about how it would come out.

Q. Talk about how it would come out and what would be the result of the inves-
tigation ?

A. I didn't bother and often wished I was free from it.

Q. What was that 1

A. I didn't bother about it.

Q. But you talked about it 1
A. No, I didn't.

Q. What did Newton say as to recompense 1
A. He never said anything.

Q. Nothing at all ?
A. No, sir.

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01 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1S97-8-

- : - - : — =^

Q. No suggestion made that there was someting in it for somebody 1
A. Not in the least.

Q. Newton did not say that the man had said there was something in it ?
A. No.

Q. He didn't say anything about that ?
A. No.

Q. Your experience is that Mr. St. John came to Newton's house, and you met him
there on two occasions, and you met him there and discussed this evidence ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And his taking down your evidence in writing and your signing it ?
A. Yes, sir.

WITNESS. — There was a question brought up DOW that I would like you to decider
upon.

Q. What was that ?

A. What I had said about Newton telling me. (The statements of Newton and
Dunn were then referred to )

Discussion ensued as to the handing in by Mr. St. John of the statements signed by
Newton and Dunn.

Mr. HAYCOCK moved that this statement be handed in to the Committee.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. Dunn, you signed a statement when I saw you first ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that your statement ?

Mr. GABROW. — I object to the statement being put in by Mr. St. John.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. Is that your statement ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you signed it ?
A. Yes, sir.

By the CHAIRMAN :

Q. Is this the first statement you signed 1
A. Yes, sir.

Mr. GERMAN. — Then 1 demand that the second statement be given.
Mr. ST. JOHN. — No, you don't get it.

24 J. 145

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. GERMAN :

Q. Dunn, I understood you made two statements which Mr. St. John took down in
writing 1

A. No, I didn't sign the second statement 1 made.

Upon motion of Mr. Garrow, seconded by Mr. Haycock, Mr. St. John was requested
to hand in the statements by Newton and Dunn.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. This statement is dated at Dovercourt, December, 6th, 1897 ; was that the evening
you made the statement, on December 6th?

A. Yes, sir.

The statement was then put in and read as follows :

" DOVERCOURT, December 6th, 1897.

11 1, Frank Dunn, declare that I helped to kill the pigs at the piggery near the
Humber in York township in the year 1896, on a Monday and a Tuesday. I was helping
Fred. Newton to kill all of them and I scalded several of those that were killed. I
scalded, to the best of my memory, 108 hogs, some of the hogs scalded were much dis-
colored when I scalded and unfit to dress. These ones unfit were wheeled away into the
fire. Some were dressed and thrown off the hooks and wheeled into the fire. I saw some
dressed hogs which Fred. Newton cut chunks out of that were diseased, by direction of
Warner. Warner told me that they were going to take the dressed hogs to cold storage
and have them inspected to see if they were fit for use. I saw several hogs dying and
dead with the cholera, among those which were killed and dressed. When we would go back
to the pens for more hogs son e would be dead, every pig was diseased. Their insides were
burning hot. All the pigs that were dressed had entrails that were discolored and in an
awful state. Warner knew all about that. Warner kept burning up the pigs and the
entrails of thosa that were dressed. When we came to the placa very early on Monday
morning Warner had all arrangements made to dress the hogs. He had the barrels and
scraping bench ready and the water boiling.

" Warner told me that they had a vet. to see the hogs and he left a small vial with
medicine, two or three inches long (measuring it on his finger) He said it was not enough
to do any good. 1 saw the bottle and so did Fred. Newton. Warner said he could have
done better if he had it himself to attend to. I saw B. Hunter there early in the
morning and again in the day time on Monday. Hunter ordered dinner on Monday for
Fred. Newton, Wm. Newton and me. Hunter was there also in the afternoon of same
<lay. Hunter was ako there on Tuesday. On the afternoon when he was there, Warner
ordered the large sows to be killed. We had trouble killing one of the hogs in the marsh.
Warner hit him with a pole and Fred, killed him. There was a teamster there hauling
manure away who came from the Mimico asylum who drew some of the stumps to the fire
with his team (bay team).

11 1 saw several of the pigs at the cold storage room at the Central Prison. I went
with William and Fred. Newton on the last load to the prison and saw them unloaded.
We went the way back to the slaughter house.

" I remember when the hogs were hung up and Fred, was opening the hogs that
William told him to keep the knifa out of his mouth as there was something wrong.

' ' Lots of the pigs that we killed and dressed were coughing and choking with the
disease. All the pigs I saw had diseased insides. To the best of my recollection all the
pigs we dressed had diseased insides. Several of the hogs dressed had spots on them that
were diseased, I positively saw that. Warner also knew it. I remember Warner exam-
ining the spots on some of them and saying, * we will take chances on these,' and he
would order them to be sent.

11 (Signed) FRANCIS DUNN."

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01 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. ST. JOHN :—
Q Is that true ?
A. Yes, sir.

By. Mr. GERMAN : —

Q This is the statement you signed, out at Mr. St. John's house ?

A. No sir. it was at Newton's house. I don't know where Mr. St. John's house is.

Q. At Newton's house 1
A. Yes.

Q. You had conversation with Mr. Warner out at the killing t
A. Yes. On the second day.

Q. And was Newton there ?
A. Yes, air.

Q. Then this statement is true which you make here that Warner told you that
these hogs were being taken to the Central Prison for the purpose of being inspected.
A. That was on the last evening we were there.

Q. No matter whether it was the last afternoon or the first, he told you that ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q I suppose he told Newton that, too ?
A. Newton heard him say it.

Q. When did he say that 1
A. After the work was over.

Q. So that there was no secret about the fact that these hogs were to be inspected to
ascertain whether or not they were fit for human food ? There was no secret about that 1

A. Not after the killiug was over.

Q And as they were being taken to the Prison 1

A. I heard nothing mentioned while they were being taken to the Prison. It was
after the killing was over.

Mr. GERMAN asked that Mr. St. John, in accordance with the resolution passed by
the Committee, should now hand in the written statement made by Fred Newton to him.

Mr. ST JOHN stated that before any resolution had been placed in the Chairman's
hands, he had offered to produce the statement by Dunn, and had determined to put it in,
and it was not in consequence of that resolution that he had put it in. He had tendered
it to the Committee before that resolution WAS put.

The CHAIRMAN : Do you wish to put in any other statements 1

Mr. ST. JOHN : Not at present. I am conducting my own examination.

TSAIAH WARNER, sworn :
Examined by Hon. Mr. DAVIS :

Q. Are you caretaker at the piggery f
A. Yes, sir.

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(51 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1S97-&

Q. How long have you been there ?
A. Since the fall of '94,

Q. Do you remember the breaking out of the disease among the hogs there ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you remember when it WBP, as near as you can tell ?

A. I began to be alarmed about some disease breaking out there about the 28th or
29th of June, 1896.

Q. What were the first symptoms you saw ?

A. Some time previous to that we had some pigs that refused to ea<-, some seven or
eight of them in the pen, and I had a boy, a young man, who was working with me, and
when I fed down one side of the pen he would feed the other, and this pen of pigs I
noticed had left their food almost entirely in the trough ; that was one morning, and I
accused the boy of putting in too much thick food. He said he had not, but had fed
them in the regular way, and upon examination I found that these pigs had refused to
take any of their meal. I put them outside, got some other kind of food to induce them
with, and for two or three days they would not eat very much. Some of them improved,
and some of that pen died, and some got better. It ran on. That was perhaps about the
10th June. These pigs went on from time to time, and we lost some two or three.
On the 28 h June — I was away for eight days from the 18th June, until Sunday night
the 28th — upon my coming home on the 28th, there was a number of these hogs sick,
and some three or four had died when I was away. Then it was when I began to be
alarmed about there being something wrong. I came down to Mr. Noxon's office, and
told him about it, and he told me to go back and see Mr. Hunter. I went over to Mr.
Hunter, had a talk with him about it, and he sent us out a veterinary. I think about
the 1st July, some three or four days after that it was. The veterinary came out and
made an examination.

Q. Who was this veterinary ?

A. His name was Hurd — Dr. Hurd. He was then living near Mr. Hunter's on
Dundas street. After making an examination, he said " Warner, you just want to change
your feed. Four pigs have been eating too much strong food, and you want to change
your feed ?" I said " Well Doctor I have been advising that, but we haven't room
enough to keep all the hogs to eat all that we have down there, and fcr that reason we
are not getting rid of the food." He said " If you get some shorts or bran, and give
them, in a little time they will be all right." I asked him if he didn't think there was
something more serious than what wanted just a change of food. He said he did not
think there was anything contagious, and he would order some shorts and bran to be sent
down for a change of food, and they would be all right in a little while. I said " What
are you going to do with those pigs that won't eat anything ? " and he said that he would
send me some medicine to give them. As a man that's been taking care of pigs all my
life time, I haven't much faith in giving pigs medicine. However, the medicine came
down with Mr. Hunter's son, with instructions for me to give them a table spoon full
three times a day. I said to young Hunter so as to show Dr. Hurd that his instructions
were carried out, " I will get a spoon and you give it to them and we will hold the hogs
for you." So the boy and I held the hogs, ard he gave them the medicine.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q Who gave the medicine ?

A. Young Hunter did. That is Mr. Hunter's son. The hogs didn't improve any,
and on the morning of the llth July, I went up to Inspector Noxon's office again

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61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS :

Q Before you pass that, did not this veterinary, Dr. Hurd, call there more than
once ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Just once ?
A. Only once.

Q. Did he indicate to you that he thought there was any contagious disease ?

A. He gave me to understand that there was not, because I thought myself that
there was something wrong.

Q And he said that this medicine with a change of food would be enough 1

A. Yes. On the llth July I came down to the inspector's office, and I told him
that the matter was even more serious than before. That we were not improving any,
and he did not give me any very great satisfaction about what I should do at that time.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. Who was that?

A. Inspector Noxon. So I went home on the car, and I had just changed my
clothes, and was going down to the piggery again, when Dr. Smith and Sweetapple came
in. Dr. Smith asked me if I was boss there, and I eaid I was. He said he had come out
to see our hogs. And I said, " We haven't anything very enticing to show you this
morning " He asked me where we had bought those hogs, and I told him at the market
at Mr. Harris'. He asked me what time it was when we got them, and I told him I
brought them home on the 29th May. " Well," he said, " I'm afraid that you might
likely have cholera here." I asked him why, and he said it was in other parts of the
county of West York. That they had it out in Thornhill, and had bought the hogs at the
same place as we had, and about the same time. He went farther along, and said to me
to get my knife and kill that hog that was lying beside that pen out in the yard. I said,
" You will excuse me, sir, but who are you ?" He said, " I'm Professor Smith from the
Veterinary College," and I said, " Who sent you here ?'' He said he didn't know, but had
a telephone message to come out and examine the hogs. I said, " Likely you have had a
message from Mr. Noxon's office, as I had j ust left there myself, after urging them to
send somebody to look more carefully after these hogs." So I sent the boy up to the
house after the knife and steel, and I stuck the hog. T opened it up at his instructions,
and after I had got it opened up Dr. Sweetapple took hold of the entrails, and according
to Dr. Smith's instructions, along with Dr. Sweetapple, I put my knife into the entrail
and opened it up. Dr. Sweetapple assisted me until they were satisfied that cholera
existed. When we got through with that hog, I opened up one that had died the night
before. We made proper examination of that one too, and when we had got done with
that he walked round and looked all through the pens and yard carefully, and when he got
through he said, "Warner, you have cholera here," and he said you have a lot of fine
hogs that might be made use of, and he said the balance of them must be burned, and he
said, "I'll give you my instructions. I will take charge of the place now, and if you will
carry out my instructions I shall leave you here to do it." He says, " I want the balance
of those hogs burned on the premises. You must not allow a live hog to go off these
premises."

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS :

Q Which of these two men said that ?

A. Dr. Smith. He was talking all this time. I asked him if I could not bury them,
and he turned round, and in a sharp tone of voL-e said, <4 No, sir, I want these hogs
burned," and he turned round again and in a better voice said, " You can burn them easier

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

than you can bury them." I did not know it at the time, but found out afterwards that
you could do it much easier. He asked me how many hogs had died, and I took him up
to the house to give him the correct statement, about the 1st June. I showed him the
book and he took down a statement out of my book showing how many hogs had died
daily, as I had to keep record of them to show what became of those hogs after they were
purchased and put in my possession.

Q. Do you remember anything about the number of hogs that he noticed were pretty-
sick that day ?

A. I should say there was some twelve or fifteen hogs that were sick, with the ones
that were killed and died the night before. The hogs that died the night before wasn't
buried. I think there was three or four of them, and after I had fed the other hogs in
the morning, I went away to go to the inspector's office. When I came back the young man
was busy digging a place to bury those hogs, and when Dr. Smith told me that they
should be burned, 1 immediately sent the young man —

Q. Who is this young man 1

A. Robert Oster. I sent him for his father to come over and assist us in burning
these hogs that afternoon — that is the ten or twelve hogs that were sick. Some were
alive, but Dr. Smith told me I should destroy anything that had any evidence of disease.
I sent the young man over for his father, who came right away, and I built up a fire and
burned those hogs that were sick and had died, and that we had killed, and the balance of
the sick hogs, and put them all on the fire and burned them up that Saturday afternoon.

Q. Mr. Warner, let us understand that. Dr. Smith was there, and when he was
there several hogs were dead and ten or twelve were sick. That same afternoon, acting
on his instructions, you killed all those that weie sick and burned them that afternoon 1

A. Yes, sir. I killed anything that showed signs of disease, and not only that, but
whenever I saw any difference in any pigs, and found a pig that showed signs of disease,
I inmediately removed him from the pen and put him out in the yard. That is why the
ten or twelve were out in the yard when Dr. Smith and Sweetapple came there.

Q Outside of the ten or twelve that you speak of, were there any others that showed
any signs of sickness?

A. No. Not at that time, that I could discover.

Q. What further instructions did Dr. Smith give you 7

A. To have all those slaughtered on the place. Those that were fit for use might be
used, and that I should be careful to have those hogs killed there and put away in the
cold storage, or some place where they would be carefully inspected before being put on
the market for use or for sale. He went away home then, and in the afternoon Mr.
Hunter came down and we talfced the matter over and Mr. Hunter says, " Now we will
load those hogs on the wagon and take them down to the Central Prison and have them
slaughtered." I said '• No, sir, you can't do anything of the kind " and he said " Why,"
and I told him that Dr. Smith said none of those hogs should go off these premises alive.
He says, " He told you that T and I said " yes." " If you take them away to the Central
prison, I'll have to report to Dr. Smith." He got in his buggy, and went away and came
back in about an, hour or so and said, " We will have to make some arrangements about
killing these hogs here." I says " All right." Then the question was, who were we to
get, and he said he would try and hunt up some butcher, if he could, and went away, and
I was to get ready for butchering the hogs on Monday morning, with the instructions
both from Dr. Smith and Mr. Hunter that I should be careful that no hogs would go
away from there that wouldn't stand inspection or show signs of disease : and I was
careful as I could be.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8-

Q. Mr. Hunter gave you these instructions as well as Dr. Smith ?

A. Yes. We talked the matter over, that they were to be inspected before being
placed in the market.

Q. Did you know on Saturday night who would come to kill the hogs on Monday ?

A. No. On Monday morning I got up early, made a fire in the stove, and prepared
for killing, and along, as near as I can understand, between four and five o'clock, this man
came along with a wagon with three men, or I think two men, one didn't come till after-
wards. They came along with their knives, and Mr. Hunter came out Monday morning
with a load of hooks and gammel sticks from the Central Prison, so that we could get on,
with the killing.

Q. Who were these men ?
A. Newton and Dunn.

Q. Which of the Newtons ?

A. The one that gave evidence. I think that is Fred Newton.

Q. They came in this wagon t

A. I think so. I am not just quite sure. Fred Newton came, but I am not sure
whether it was his brother or the other man that came with him. They had to grind the
knives. We had to giind what knives we had and those that Mr. Hunter brought.

Q. Which of these men actually did the killing 1

A. The man that gave evidence seemed to be the man. He told me he had made
arrangements with Mr. Hunter on Sunday to kill and dress these hogs.

Q. Did you give him instructions before the killing ?

A. I just told him that we should begin to kill at the first pen, and to kill nothing
but what was free from disease. I gave him to understand, and it wasn't necessary for
me to give him to understand, that there was anything wrong. We were getting ready
to kill the pigs and to get on with the work generally.

By Mr. McPnEBSON. — Q. Did he understand there was cholera at the time ?

A. If he did not, he must have been the most chumpy man in the neighborhood,
because almost every man, woman and child in that neighborhood knew that there was
cholera there, because on Saturday afternoon the fire that I lit and the smell of the burn-
ing hogs could be smelt for a mile, and many of the children came to inquire what it was.
There was no secret whatever about it that we had cholera there.

Q. When Newton started to kill was he given any instructions as to selecting hogs
that should go to the Central Prison and those that should go to the fire ?

A. In taking the first hogs out of the pen I assisted them to do that, and instructed
them to be careful that no attempt should be made to dress them or put them on the
hooks or clean any hog that was not perfectly sound in every form. It was talked about
among the men. There wasn't five minutes in the day that they were not talking about
it. I was not trying to keep it quiet from anyone.

Q. Did you give instructions to Newton or Dunn in whispers t

A. No, sir. I am not in the habit of doing it. If I had any whispering to do it is
to the opposite sex I would be doing it. I am not in the habit of doing that sort of
thing. 1 did not whisper to you, St. John, when you were out there, did 1 1

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Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Newton started to kill. What did you do when they were killing ?

A. I assisted them in getting out the first batch of pigs until they had got along
with quite a number of them, and I was busy myself in keeping the water hot and keep-
ing the men at work and putting any hog that I thought unfit on the fire. Built my
fire and got that going and worked around in general among the men. I was boss and
doing the bossing.

Q. In addition to your instructions to Newton that no hogs should go on the hooks
for the Central Prison except what were perfectly free from disease, did you yourself do
something as to the selection ?

A. Yes, sir. More than that. When I would not be very much engaged in some-
thing else if they took out any hog that I noticed was unfit in any way I would take it
away from them, even take them off the bench if they were scalded, against his wishes
sometimes, a ad when he said that they might as well go there all right.

Q. Newton wanted to send some hogs to the Central Prison that you would not allow
to go1?

A. That I would not allow to go. I distinctly told him I would rather put five or
ten on the fire than to have the inspector refuse one. And so I would.

Q. During the killing, did you give Newton instructions on more than one occasion
to cut out marks of disease ?

A. No, sir. I would not have allowed him to do it, as I would rather have had a
spot there than a chunk cut out if there was a spot. I gave him instructions to be
•careful and to send nothing away that would not pass inspection.

By Mr. McPnEBSON. — Q. Did you see any cutting out ?

A. If there was anything cut out it was unknown to me and against my orders.

. By Hon. Mr. DAVIS. — Q. Would your instructions from Dr. Smith have allowed you
to do anything of that kind ?

A. Not at all, His instructions to me were to be as careful as I possibly could, and
he warned me that these hogs would be inspected after they went out of our hands, and
before they were placed on the market, and •! told those men that they would be and that
it was useless for us to send away any that would not stand inspection.

Q. After you received those instructions from Dr. Smith yoe. acted under him
entirely 1

A. Entirely. I knew, from my experience, that the veterinary takes charge of those
places under such circumstances in the same manner in which the sheriff does when he
makes a seizure.

Q. Then you understood that you were acting under his instructions as Dominion
Government Inspector ?

A. Exactly. That is why I told Mr. Hunter he couldn't take them to the Central
Prison to have them slaughtered.

Q If Newton cut anything out of the hogs that were sent to the Central Prison he
did it against your instructions ?

A. Certainly ; and against my wishes.

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61 Victoria. . Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you order him to stick a dead hog and dress it and send it to the Central
Prison ?

A. No, sir, 1 never did ; and would be ashamed to tell any man to do that, let alone
a butcher, He might as well stick it in the rib or anywhere else for it wouldn't bleed
anyway. I would be ashamed to tell any man to do that.

Q Well, then, if Newton or anyone else swears that every hog there was diseased
what would you say ?

A. Well, I would say and swear that I think that what he swore to was just as
untruthful as it is ridiculous. I don't think there was a ho* sent away from there that
wa3 slaughered but what I could have taken away from the piggery and could have pulled
them through j ust as well as not.

Q Newton, in answer to the question asking him to describe these spots to the
Committee, said, " There would be little red spots and large red spots, dark purple spots,
big spots as big as your hand in places on the hams and backs and in places where you
couldn'c cut them out. When on the necks and bellies that I could cut them out I did
take them out," and he was asked if it was known to Mr. Warner, and he answered " He
was there all the time," and in reply to the question " Did he discuss that with you ? "
ha replied, " He would say (that is Warner) you can't get that fellow fixed up, you had
better burn him." Now, you said that, didn't you ?

A. No, sir, I didn't. I never made any such statement. I wouldn't have done a
trick like tha*t if the hogs had been my own, much less do it for the Government.

Q To your knowledge, then, was there any hog or hogs that left there for the
Central Prison cold storage that had any spots of disease about them ?

A. Not at all. If there had been I would not have allowed them to go.

Q Any with large pieces of meat cut out of them in order to hide that they had
disease or for any other purpose 1

A, No, sir, not one. I wouldn't suppD3e tint it would hide it. If there was a
mark on a hog I would rather leave it there than to cut it out. If I cut a big chunk
out of it the dealer would think it was worse than it really was. It would not hide it.
You can't cut it anywhere without it being noticed.

Q. Newton swore he cut strips off the bellies of the hogs to hide that they were
diseased. Do you know anything about it ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did he do it under your instructions ?

A No, sir, not at all. With the exception of one load of hogs I saw all those hogs
placed in the wagon as they were taken from the hooks. I had to keep tally of them to
see how many went away and how many went on the fire, and I am sure there was no
such thing as that.

Q Have you any idea how many went to the Prison on Monday ?
A. Yes, sir, fifty-seven or fifty -eight.

Q How many were burned on Monday ?
A. Somewhere about fifty hogs.

Q On the second day how many, about, went to the storehouse ?
A. There was fifty-seven or fifty-eight went on the first day and the balance on the
second day.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8'

Q. What happened to all the rest of the hogs 1
A. We put them on the fire and burned them up.

By Mr. McPnERSON. — Q. Will you describe the conditions that made the difference
between those you hung up and those you burned 1 What were the conditions that
decided you to burn them 1

A. Well, in the first case, with a hog that got sick, he would refuse his food. A
eick hog won't eat and a well hog eats a lot, and as soon as I found a hog that was sick
I did not condemn that hog because he was sick and didn't claim that he was going to
die. Oftentimes a hog will refuse feed for three or four days and they would then come
round all right again. I have that almost as a daily occurenee.

Q. I had reference to the time of the killing entirely.

A. Any hog that was smart and lively as ever, and took his feed that morning, we
dressed him and put him on the hook.

Q. Did you mark the condition of the insides ?

A. I left that with Newton. He did the most of that — the taking out of the entrails.

Q. If there was anything wrong with the entrails, any inflammation or heat they
were to be refused 1

A. Certainly.

Q. And burned ?

A. And burned. Any hog that he ever drew my attention to that its entrails were-
inflamed in any way, I had it taken away and put on the fire.

Q. No question about that 1
A. Not at all.

Q. Did you examine any of those that were strung up to see if their entrails were
sound ?

A. As far as the entrails went I did not pay any attention to that. I more
particularly looked at the hogs before they went out of the pen.

By Mr. GERMAN : —

Q Newton says you told him to kill every hog that was big enough and fat enough
Mr. ST. JOHN : — It was Mr. Hunter said that.

Q. Did Mr. Newton say anything to you at this time as to what employment he was
engaged in ?

A. He did say that morning that he was awful glad he had that job there. That
he was dead broke, and hadn't any money at the time, and was glad to get the job to do
the work 1

„ Q. Was it you paid him off 1

A. No. I had nothing to do with that.

Q. Did you go down to the Central Prison to see the hogs 1

A. No, sir. I can't swear where the hogs went, whether they went to the Central
Prison or not. I never saw them after they went away on the wagon.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did this man know in any way that the hogs of you selection were intended o
human food ?

A. Decidedly. I gave Newton to understand that the instructions that I had were
that I should be careful to take any hog that was at all infected, and put it on the fire,
and the balance would be sent away, and I warned them that they were to be put on the
market and inspected before being sold.

By Mr. GARROW : —

Q. Was there any justification for this condition of mind that these men didn't know
that they wer e to be used for food ?

A. No. Not at all.

Q. No secrecy ?

A, No, not at all. You couldn't do it.

Q. You assumed that the whole neighborhood knew it ?
A. Certainly.

Q. You also told htm that you acted under the instructions of the Dominion Govern-
ment inspector, although you were a Government employee 1

A. Certainly.

Q. Did you see any hogs on the hooks that had any discoloration at all ?

A. No. Not from anything like disease. Of course a spotted hog being killed and
dressed as quickly as these were, there might be a color of the black and white shown.

Q But anybody that knows anything about hogs would know at once that that
wasn't disease ?

A. Certainly.

Q. And there was no sign of disease 1

A. No. I swear positively as to that. For if I had seen anything of that kind I
would have taken them out and put them on the fire. I would not have done so if Mr.
Hunter or anybody in the Government employ had told me to do so. I would have left
my job to-morrow rather than do it.

By Mr. GERMAN : —

Q. Newton says that one or two of these hogs were taken off the hooks and put on
the fire 1

A. If it was done I knew nothing about it. If it was done, it was done during my
absence temporarily.

By Mr. KERNS : —

Q. Yet it might be done ?

A. "Well, it might have been done ?

By Mr. GABROW : —

Q. You have told me yourself that you condemned some hogs that Newton had
dressed?

A. But they didn't get on the hooks. They were only on the cleaning board. I put
them on the fire, even though that man said they would be all right.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 897-8

Q. Would diseased hogs be spotted ?

A. Yes. There were cases that they wo«ld.

Q. 1 mean would that be universal 1

A. The disease is a very peculiar disease, The hog sometimes dies very suddenly
without being discolored at all. Other hogs might be discolored very bad.

Q. It is not an invariable symptom of the disease ?
A No.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS :—

Q, You are sure from your knowledge of hogs that it could not be possible that
every hog there was diseased 1

A No, sir. I am satisfied they were not all diseased. More satisfied, however,
from the fact that I took one hog out of the herd and have him there yet. That's the
only disobedience I did towards Dr. Smith'd instructions. I kept that hog. I made a
little pen for him and took him away from the side of a lot of other hogs.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : —

Q. That was disobedience of Dr. Smith's orders ?
A. That part of it was.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : —

Q. With that exception, you state that you carried out his instructions to the letter ?

A. That is, when Dr. Smith gave me these instructions I kept that hog, but Dr.
Sweetapple came out there the next week, and then I told him I had that hog, and I told
him the object of my keeping it was to see whether I could keep a hog on the same
premises or near it without being diseased.

Q What did he say to you ?

A. He said he thought I had better have killed him, but he allowed me to keep him
on my promising him that if he showed any signs of disease I would kill him and burn him.

Q. Did you tell Mr. Noxon about it ?

A. No. Not till later on. I don't think I told him about it till late on in the fall.

Q. You received instructions from Dr. Smith and carried them out to the letter,
with the exception of this one hog ?

A. Yes, and I acquainted them with the fact that I had that hog.
By Mr. ST. JOHN :—

Q Did Hon. Mr. Davis ask you any particulars about this piggery at any time
before you came here to-day 1

A. Yes.

Q Did you give any statement in writing ?
A, No, sir.

Q Any statement taken down 1

A. No. Unless he took it down after I had left

156

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.)

Q. When did you come to the piggery 1

A. In the fall of 1894.

Q. What time?

A. November or December.

Q. Were you formerly in the employ of the Government 1

A. At the Mimico Asylum.

Q. What part of the Province did you come from ?

A.. Stormont.

Q. What has been your politics 1

A. I have always been proud to know that I was a good Reformer.

Q. What 'were you employed at in your county 1

A. T was busy farming a greater part of my time.

Q. Did you ever run in politics ?

A. Yes, sir, but I didn't run as fast as you did. I got left.

Q. You were a candidate for the Local Legislature 1

A. I was in 1883.

Q. You went to the polls and had a fight ?

A. Ob, yes.

Q. Were you ever a candidate since ?

A. No, sir. Once did me.

Q. Has your name been proposed as a candidate since ?

A. No, sir. Now I am not quite sure as to that.

Q. Once was enough for you 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, were you proposed after that in Stormont or Glengarry 1

A. Glengarry has nothing to do with it • Stormont is a county itself.

Q Were you proposed as a Liberal candidate after that 1

A. I don't know as I can say about that. I might have been up in convention

just as a lark, as some others do. Not that I intended to run.

Q. Had you given up farming before you came up here 1

A. Ye*, sir.

Q. Entirely t

A. Not entirely. I went into the hotel business for a time.

Q. How long were you in the hotel business 1

A. One year.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. After that you came up here in the employ of the Government 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What were you doing all the time between the 18th and 28th of June, 1896,
when you were down east 1 Away from the piggery of which you were superintendent.

A. Well, I asked liberty from the inspector to allow me to go home for a few days,
with a view to selling my farm.

Q. And were you working at that object all the time you were down there!
A. Oh, I had a little fun with the boys.

Q. Talk politics at all?
A. Not on the platform.

Q. But on the side 1

A. Oh, I couldn't help it.

Q. The Dominion election was going on at that time ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. When was the election ?

A. 23rd June, and that was the time I was proud of being a Reformer.

Q And you got your monthly salary in advance before you went down there ^

A. Not all of it. Only parb of it. I asked for more and they wouldn't give it to
me. I got $30 ot it.

Q. In advance?
A. Not exactly.

Q Really in advance ?

A. It would be due on the 28th and I got it on the 14th.

Q It would be too late for the Dominion Election ?
A. It would not have been too late to sell the farm.

Q. Did you sell the farm 1
A. Not at that time.

Q I suppose you devoted more time to politics than to selling your farm ?
A. Not particularly.

Q And you were very proud of being a Reformer as you told me ?
A. I was more proud after the election than I was before.

Q You were there when it was at fever teat. Were you not ? Who were the
candidates there ?

A Dr. Bsrgin and J. G. Snetsinger and J. G. Adams, the Patron.

Q. Now the Liberal member was a friend of yours and you talked him up as well as
you could ?

A. Not vt ry much. I only had two days, arriving there on Sunday night and the
election took place on Tuesday.

158

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did anybody on Snetsinger's behalf directly or indirectly ask you to come down ]

A. Not Snetsinger. I had a letter from a gentleman in Cornwall to come down and
vote, and 1 wrote to that gentleman that I had no vote because that they had neglected
there to see that I was on the list.

Q. That's a fact, and instead of going down to vote, as you had no vote, you thought
you would make it up by a little work 1

A. I was willing to assist my party if I could.

Q. And you did it ?
A. I did. That's right.

Q. Have you your books here showing the records of the pigs ?
A. No, sir.

Q. 1 asked the chairman for them, to be produced.
A. He didn't say anything to me.

Q. So that on Saturday, when Dr. Smith inspected the hogs, the inspection he made
^was outside ?

A. Outside and inside both. He went through the place.

Q. He saw ten or twelve hogs sick ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did he tell you to destroy those hogs that were diseased ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. That day \
A. Yes, sir.

Q. That day you burned from fifteen to twenty hogs, on the same afternoon that
Dr. Smith saw them ?

A. I think from fifteen to sixteen. That's what my book will show.

Q. On Monday and Tuesday you burned all the Ijogs in the whole institution except
ninety-seven ?

A. That's right, sir.

Q And were all those hogs you burned diseased ?
A. Some of them were slightly.

Q You were aware that they were all diseased ?
A. I can't say that.

Q You burned them because you believe they were diseased 1
A. That's all right ?

Q. Ts it true that forty-two had died in that institution before Saturday 1
A Some of those hogs that died between say the 10th or 12th of June and that
<date died from other causes.

159

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. WelJ, then, how many died irooa cholera from the 10th June to the 10th July ?
A. I can't tell you exactly.

Q. Do the books show ?

A. They show how many died each day and what I thought was the cause. I
opened up each hog and if I found a piece of glass or bone in its throat, I made a note of
it, so that I could show to my inspector why that hog died.

Q. How many were like that 1
A. I don't know.

Q. Were there six?

A. No, I don't think there was.

Q. Are you prepared to say 42 were dead up to Saturday, and that 20 more were-
killed and burned on Saturday in addition 1

A. I don't think 20 more— 15 or 16.

Q. 16 and 42 would be dead on Saturday and of the balance of the 261 killed and
burned on Monday and Tuesday and the rest prepared for food, are you prepared to say
that with the exception of these 15 or 20 all these hogs were sound 1

A. I am prepared to swear that every hog that was killed and shipped away was
perfectly sound. I swear to that, or I wouldn't have allowed them to go.

Q. Do you remember stunning a sow with a pole down in the swamp and Newton
running after her with a hammer ?

A. I don't remember it. Is that the one he said couldn't get around ?

Q. Have you no recollection of that ?
A. No. I don't remember.

Q. That you and Dunn and Fred Newton and two others got round that hog and
disposed of it. It was ugly and discolored and would bite at you. Don't yo.u remember
that 1

A. I do not recollect it.

Q. Will you say it did not take place 1

A. I don't think it did. It sounds too ridiculous for us to do that.

Q. Do you recollect also asking Fred Newton to kill a sow that was in a bad condi-
tion, and that had two or three little suckers ?

A. Excuse me. He took a hammer and I gave him instructions to kill her and her
little pigs, and then I went away from there because I didn't like to see the little pigs
knocked in the head with that hammer.

Q. And your heart failed you 1

A, That's right. It did. It shows you I have a heart.

Q You remember telling Newton to kill that particular sow on Mcnday, in th^fe
bad condition, with a few suckers following her ?

A. No. I don't remember it on Monday or Tuesday.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

ISAIAH WARNER recalled : — 7th January, 1898.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : —

Q. Have you got your books ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. "What are you producing ?

A. I am producing the number of hogs received at the piggery, and the number of
hogs delivered.

Q. Altogether 1
A. Yes, sir,

Q. Since the commencement of the piggery ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many have you received from the commencement up to the end of 18964?
State at the same time when the first hog was received.

A. It was on November 20th, 1894 ; I received 85 hogs that day.

Q. How many were received altogether up to the end of 1896 1
A. I'll have to go over that and figure it up.

Q. Have you never figured it up 1

A. I have added it up. I think I have ifc here. I find it is not added up, but I
will give you the figures. On November 20th I received 85 hogs. Then I received 47 a
few days afterwards. Then on March 6th, 1895, 148 hogs ; one sow and nine pigs mak-
ing 10. Then on March 29tb, 14.

Q. Go on and give us the figures. Never mind the dates.

A. All right. Then I gat 37, 32, 26, 44, 42, 1, 32, 34, 53, 12, 13, 16, 8, 25,
30, 17.

By COL. MATHESON : —

Q. When was that ]

A. December 17th, 1895. Then on the 19th December 17 more. Then 61 and on
May 29th, 1896, 126;

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. Is that last lot from Harris '?

A. That is from Harris. The last batch we bought up to the slaughtering.

Q. That appears to be 925 hogs ?

A. Yes, sir. Somewhere about that.

Q. Have you checked the amount of hogs you received with the amount reported to
Mr. Hunter?

A. I don't know as to that. I just kept the count to show how many hogs I
received and how many was delivered from the pen.

25 J. 161

61 Victoria. Appendix (No 1.) 1897-8

Q. 930 hogs is the figure. When did the disease app irently first strike the piggery 1

A. Well, I'll give you it — I can't answer that question as to when it first struck the
piggery. The first I was aware of the disease I knew of v*as on the llth July.

Q. You did not know that any of the hogs were diseased until the llth July 1
A. That is, that I was not satisfied that cholera was there.

Q. That's not an answer. That was the culmination of the whole affair. When
did the disease first strike the piggery ?

A. Well, as I say-

Q. When did you first notice the disease in the piggery 1

A. I was satisfied on the 28th June that there was something seriously wrong.

Q. How many had died before the 28th June ?

A. Well, I will give you the dates — I have them here : In October, 1895, one pig
died.

Q. Well, don't give that. Commence in May.

A. That is, one hog died, caused by the choking of glass.

Q. Well, that's not cholera.

A. No. On December 23rd, one pig killed by fighting.

Q. That's not cholera.

A. No. January 2nd, one hog killed by fighting.

Q. That's not cholera either.

A. No. On March 24th, one pig died by picking up glass]

By Mr. FIELD :

Q. How did they get glass ?

A. They get glass, lots of it, bottles and glass tumblers that are broken at the
asylum and are thrown in with the food. We don't calculate that's a portion of the food
we give them, but it's there and is very dangerous. Then on June 2nd there was another
hog died by fighting. Then we come on to June 16th. There was a hog died with a
throat showing signs of being cut with glass. I opened this hog but didn't find any glass
in the pig.

Q. But you believe that hog died from eating glass ?

A. Certainly. On the 18th Jnne I opened up a hog and it was inflamed in the
kidneys and I put that down inflammation of the kidneys.

By Mr. ST. JOHN:

Q. When you left on the 18th to assist your friends in Stormont in politics

A. I did not go to assist my friend in politics, for the fact that I was unable to assist
him, as I had no vote.

Q. When you went down to talk for him on the side, as you stated yesterday, were
there any hogs dead with cholera 1

A. I didn't go there to talk for him but to sell my farm.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Was there any hogs dead with cholera ?

A. Not that I know of. There was one dead with inflammation of the kidneys, as I
have told you.

Q. That's what you thought.
A. I thought it.

Q. Are you an expert as to the cause ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Would you swear that hog had not died from cholera ?
A. No. I wouldn't.

Q. How many had died on the 28th June ?

A. When I came home my boy told me four had died, and I put them down on the
20th, 23rd. On 24th another one. I put that down, cause unknown. On the 27th
there was one dead, that was only what he told me. On the morning of the 28th, when
I went to the pen, I found four dead.

Q. Nextl

A. On the 29th four died. On the 30th three died. On July 2nd four died. On
July 3rd one died. On July 4th three died. On July 5th four died. That is during
the night or the day. On the 6th four died. On the 7th one died. On the 8th two died.
On the 9th 2 died, making a total of forty -four hogs dying from the 25th October to the
9th July.

Q. How many died on July 10th ?

A. Those that died on July 10th, I did not put down here, from the fact that they
were not buried. These were put in with what Dr. Smith and Dr. Sweetapple found
sick on the grounds and were all burned.

Q. On July 10th and llth, altogether, how many died ?

A. There were four dead on the morning when Dr. Smith and Dr. Sweetapple came
there.

Q. How many died that morning up to the time they came ? •

A. None.

Q. So that death was pretty general day by day after 1
A. After 28th June.

Q. And the symptoms, as they appeared to you, were similar to those that prevailed
throughout the herd at the latter part ?

A. No. The symptoms were not until I came home.

Q. I say from the 28th June.

A. Yes. Then was when I came to get alarmed that there was something seriously
wrong.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. So that as a matter of fact it took a fortnight to develop the symptoms to an
alarming extent ?

A. As I said I came home on the 28th and on the 29th I came here to the inspec-
tor's office to look for eomebody to see what was wrong. On July the 1st or 2nd, a
veterinary came there and said that we had no contagions disease and that a change of
food would set everything right.

Q. From October 28th to July 9th, forty-four hogs had died with what disease ?

A. Now, don't understand me that way. I tell you distinctly that I did not know
that these hogs died from disease.

Q. From 28th June to 9th July, both inclusive, how many dead ?
A. That would be dead 1 You say thirty -three, sir.

Q. That is, thirty-two besides the four the boy told you about 1

A. Something about that. Whether these four died from the same symptoms, I
cannot tell you. They often die fighting.

Q. The inspector came on July llth?

A. The first inspector came on the 1st or 2nd July,

Q. I am speaking of Dr. Smith and Dr. Sweetapple 1
A. They came on the 1 1th July.

Q. There were then four dead on the premises ]
A. Yes, died the night before and the day before.

Q. And how many sick ?

A. Well, there were some ten or twelve.

Q. They looked sick, didn't they ?
A. They looked sick.

Q. So it was that you burned the whole of them that day ?
A. Yes, that afternoon.

Q. Were the hogs on Saturday the llth July eating the usual quantity of food ?

A? Yes, sir, less those that were outside.

Q. How many were outside ?

A. On July llth? No there were some hogs in the pen would refuse their food
when they were fed, and I had put them outside.

Q. Can you tell me what percentage ?
A. No.

Q. How many outside were refusing their food 1
A. That is those that I had turned out of the pens.

Q. Yes, sir?

A. They would refuse their food almost all of them once in a while, and some
of them would come round again and take their food all right.

164

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. How many hogs were on Monday morning outside the main building ?
A. I think we put four or five out on Sunday.

Q So that the day after the inspectors were there, you put out four or five that
were very sick ?

A. They looked sick, and I thought they would be better outside.

Q. If Dr. Smith says everyone of them were sound outside of those dozen that
appeared sick is he not mistaken ?

A. No, sir.

Q. They took it very suddenly ?

A. Sometimes I have had them eat their breakfast and die in the hour.

Q. From that disease ?

A. I can't say it was from that disease, but they were sick.

Q. Did you find a hog that apparently looked all right, eat all right and die
within an hour ?

A. I have had a hog die that way apparently in a fit.

Q. I am talking about this herd 1

A. 1 have had it happen there during this time.

Q. On Monday and Tuesday, two days after the inspection by Dr. Smith, the
disease became so prevalent that it was necessary to kill and burn all except 97 ?

A. Well—

Q. That is so, is it not 1

A. We did do that, but I believe that many of them that we burned would perhaps
have been slaughtered and sent away just as well as those we sent away.

Q. You mean the suckers ?
A. No, there were others.

Q. How many hogs were in the building on Monday and Tuesday during the killing 1
A. Now, I can't tell you exactly that.

Q. About how many 1

A. We had 261 hogs on Saturday, in and about the building.

Q. Oan you tell me how many within the building ?
A. We burned, I think it was 16.

Q. You burned 16 on Saturday 1

A. On July llth, I burned 16 hogs. On July 13th, I burned 57 hogs and shipped
58. On July 14th, I burned 42 and shipped 39.

Q. Well, that only makes 212 altogether?
A. Well, that's including the sows.

165

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. It doesn't make enough '/
A. How do you mean 1

Q. There are only 212 hogs accounted for there altogether?
A. There was a lot of little pigs that was not counted in that.

Q. How did you come to make it up altogether, 261, little pigs and all 1

A. If you take 44 that were dead up to the 9th July and the 4 on the 10th July.

Q. So that there were 260 hogs altogether, and in addition to all these hogs there
was all the little ones ? It doesn't include the little ones at all. The little ones were
not included 1

A. No, some of them were not.

Q. So that including the little hogs, there was a great many more than 261. How
many little ones were there1?

A. Perhaps 40 or 45. I didn't count. Any pig I castrated and he went in and
did well, I placed him on my book as a store hog.

Q. So that 260 hogs include all those that died. from cholera and exclude all the
small hogs ?

A. Yes, the little ones.

Q. So that in that herd there were killed not only as I supposed, 261 hogs, but 261
plus the little ones 1

A. Not plus all the little ones, but some of the small hogs.

Q. What proportion of the hogs did you see killed 1
A. A large percentage of them.

Q. How did you kill the hogs outside that you burned or that you determined to-
bum 1 Were they invariably knocked in the head 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And thrown on the fire ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How were the hogs killed that were in the building ?

A. When the butcher went into the building at first he took the hammer and knocked
them down.

Q, And then he was stopped. How did he kill them after that ?
A. The boys held them and he stuck them.

Q. Every hog that was living within the building was stuck ?
A. Yes, sir, I would suppose so.

Q. Every hog outside the building that was burned was not stuck ]

A. There was some of them, oftentimes that the hog was knocked down, we would
stick him and put him out of his misery.

Q. But only for the purpose of preparing him for the fire ?
A. Yes, sir.

166

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. How many within the building on Monday and Tuesday were dead and taken
out dead 1

A. Well, sir, I didn't see any. I didn't see a hog in the building that was dead.

Q. You didn't see a hog in the building that was dead?

A. Not after these men came there, We took out some hogs from there. Any we
found dead we took out before they came.

Q. Did you find some dead there on Monday ?
A. Yes, when I went to the pens.

Q. Was that before three o'clock in the morning, on Monday ?
A. No. There was no one in the pen before that time.

Q. What time did you go there ?

A. About five o'clock. I didn't go there before that.

Q. You have heard given in evidence here that all the hogs that were living in the
building were stuck and dressed or attempted to be dressed. What do you say to that T

A. That all the hogs in the building were stuck and sc tided or dressed.

Q. Yes.

A . I say, no, sir. There was hogs there that —

Q Do you deny that ?

A. I deny that. 1 went to the pen and took some hogs that showed signs of dis-
ease, and we put them on the fire.

Q. Was Newton present when you took them out and put them on the fire 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. So that hogs were taken out and put on the fire alive ?
A. Not alive.

Q. Who killed them ?
A. I did.

Q. You killed them in the building yourself alone 1
A. No, sir, outside.

Q. Who pulled them out for you ?
A. I drove them out.

Q. How many 1
A. Quite a number.

Q. Were they all sick 1

A. I thought they showed signs or symptoms of disease.

Q. How many did you drive out in that way ?

A. There must have been in the neighborhood in the two days — Ob, on the 13th I
burned 57 hogs.

167

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q But you did not burn them from inside the building?
A. Some of them were.

Q. How many did you drive out of the building 1
A. I can't say as to that.

Q. But that's what I want to know.
A. I cant't tell you that.

Q. About how many are you prepared to swear that you drove out of the building
A. There must have been at the least calculation some 30 odd.

Q There must have been some 30 odd which you drove out showing clear symptoms
of disease ?

A. Some showed symptoms of disease, and some not so much.

Q. So that in your opinion you did kill and burn some hogs that were as good as
those that went to the cold storage ?

A. I believe some of them would have dressed up all right.

Q. As good as those that went to the Central Prison 1

A. They might and they might not have been. I took some hogs off the board after
they had scalded them. I wouldn't allow them to go to the Prison.

Q. You have heard what Newton and Frank Dunn have stated. They said that you
told them to stick a dead hog.

A. I never gave any such orders.

Q You never gave any instructions as to the three that were dying ?
A. No, sir. I wouldn't allow a hog to be stuck that was dying.

Q. Are you prepared to say that you didn't give instructions during the killing ?

A. I did, and I warned them, time and time and again, to be careful not to put
anything on the table or hooks that showed signs of disease, and I swear positively that
I took hogs off the board after they were scalded, and put them on the fire. And I swear
positively that Newton said I put hogs on the fire that could be taken to the Central
Prison, and that they could just as well go.

Q Then on many points you deny what Newton has said and what Dunn has said ?
A. I do, sir. He is either telling a falsehood or I am — and I am not.

Q Hogs were to your knowledge put into the scalding barrel and then on the fire ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q During your superintendence?

A Yes, sir. I couldn't be there all the time.

Q There was no other — you recollect that you were not around for one whole hour.
A. I do not know, but perhaps that was exactly the time when 1 came back and
found th^se hogs on the board, and I took them away. I can't swear to that.

168

Victoria Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Were there any other hours that you were not there during the two days 1
A. No, sir.

Q. How many entrails of these hogs did you examine 1
A. I didn't examine any.

Q. So that you are not able to deny what the butchers stated they saw frequently
in these diseased hogs ?

A. I can't say as to that.

Q. Then there is one matter of fact stated by Dunn and Newton that you can't deny 1

A. I can. There is this about it, when the entrails where placed in the wheelbarrow
and brought down to the fire I looked at them closely and couldn't see any signs then of
disease, bat I didn't examine them properly. The only examination I made was when I
made it in company with Dr. Smith and Dr. Sweetapple.

Q. You don't pretend to be an expert ?

A. As a hog feeder, I am. That's my business.

Q But you don't understand anything about it, cholera 1

A. For an ordinary man, I do, but 1 wouldn't put my knowledge up against Dr.
Smith's or any one else like that. I believe I understand tin cholera better than a good
many veterinaries.

Q How many kinds of cholera are there ?
A. I can't say that. The kind we had —

Q What kind of cholera did you have ?
A. I can't say.

Q. Can't you tell me what kind of cholera that was you had there ?

A It was the kind of cholera that killed our pigs. I believe there is many a veter-
inary in our country to-day that never saw hog cholera. I believe so.

You are putting up your experience and knowledge as to hog cholera against a
veterinary surgeon's, or a majority of them, on the basis that they never had an oppor-
tunity o! knowing what it was.

A. I am basing it on the fact that Dr. Hurd, who is a veterinary surgeon, cam*
there and after examining those hogs said that all we required was a change of food, and
I said, " Doctor, what good's a change of food to a hog that won't eat any ?"

Q. Did you know as much about hog cholera at the time Hurd was there as he did ?
A. No, sir. I did not, but I learned from Dr. Smith and Sweetapple in the post
mortem exanination they made on that day when they were at the piggery.

Q. Are you prepared to swear, in view of what you have told me about being absent
for an hour at a time, and having to go running about doing different work, that pieces
of meat were not cut out of those hogs '(

A. I say, sir, that I was present at the loading of all the hogs, and that it would be
impossible for these pieces of meat to be cut out of those hogs without my noticing it
I am prepared to answer that question in that way, and I discovered none of that kind .

169

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Q. Were you looking for anything of that kind ?

A. No, sir. I didn't. I wasn't looking for trouble that way. Didn't expect they
would do a thing of that kind.

Q. Would you swear now that pieces of meat were not cut out of any of those hogs f

A. If Newton cut them out they were cut out in defiance of me and the pieces were
so small that I didn't notice, and I do not believe there could be a piece cut out without
my noticing it.

Q. Newton says it was done with from ten to fifteen of them, and Dunn says he
held the legs apart, and yon say that what they say is not right.

A. I'm prepared to swear that either they or me are telling what is not right, and
it is not me. That's the way I put that.

Q. Are you prepared to state now, Warner, in view of the fact that you didn't
examine one entrail and didn't know what those entrails were like, and in view of the
fact that you have stated to us that some of those hogs were perfectly sound as they
appeared to you, and were dead within an hour, and that forty-four were dead up to
Saturday, and sixteen had to be burned on that day, and that within the whole herd of
261, plus forty-five or fifty young ones, or 300 in all, that all should be burned, in your
judgment, except ninety-seven that were shipped — are you prepared to say that those
ninety- seven hogs were perfectly sound 1

A. I am prepared to say that when a hog dies as he did die at that time, after being
sick not more than an hour — you understand I had a hog that had eaten his breakfast
and immediately he began to squeal. I ran down to the pen, supposing that another
hog and it were fighting, and when I got to the pen I found it in this position, shaking
as if it bad a fit. That hog died inside of an hour. I don't believe really that that hog
died of the cholera, although it died while some of the rest had cholera. We might have
a hog that died very suddenly at any time and this hog might have died from some other
cause and not cholera.

Q. You have not answered my question, Warner.

A. Well, that's one point of my question. I'll try and get at the rest if I can
understand it.

By the CHAIRMAN* — Q. It comes down to the point whether these ninety seven
hogs snipped to the Central Prison were free from disease ?
A. Yes, sir, or I wouldn't have allowed them to go.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. In face of the fact that so many of these hogs were diseased
and had to be burned and some were taken off the board and had to be burned, after
they were scalded, you still say that these hogs that went to the Central Prison were sound
and free from disease 1

A. I am prepared to swear that all these ninety-seven hogs were, to the best of my
judgment, perfectly sound, or I would not have allowed them to go.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that they were sound ?
A. I believe that they were.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that they were ?

A. I believe that they were. If a veterinary surgeon of the ability of Dr. Smith
or Dr. Sweetapple would say that they were not sound, I wouldn't undertake to place
my judgment against theirs. I wouldn't do it.

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61 Victoria Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Can you tell me, of your own personal knowledge, that a number of those hogs
were shipped away without Dr. Sweetapple having an opportunity to examine them 1

A. That's not a part of my business. I don't know anything about it.

Q. That is contrary to Dr. Smith's instructions ?

A. He did not give me any instructions of that kind. He told me that I should be
careful not to allow any hog to go off those premises alive, and to be careful to dress
only those hogs that were healthy.

Q. You knew it was the intention of the inspector to inspect all those hogs before
they went away ?

A. Certainly. I told Newton and all the men there.

Q. Why did you burn the greater number of the hogs outside the building ?

A. There was a large number of hogs in the pens, diseased outside, and as I told you
whenever I fancied there was a t og diseased — away I took it out and put it on the fire.

Q. How many large sows outside were killed and burned 1
A. A number of them.

Q. Because they were in a bad condition ?

A. Because I thought they were in a bad condition, and were along with some
others that were badly diseased, and I wouldn't run any chances.

Q. So that, as a matter of fact, the large hogs as well as the small hogs were dis-

A. Some of them were, but it was not the rule. We would have a weak hog among
a herd of 200 or 300 hogp, just as there is among two or three hundred of any kind of
stock.

Q. ^ great majority of the hogs inside the building were small hogs ?
A, They were hogs that hadn't been there very long.

Q. Were the majority of them small ?

A. Yes, sir. You see we bought these hogs.

Q. Never mind. I don't care about your buying them.

A. They had only been there a little while and came there on the 29th May.

Q Was it noticeable to you that the small hogs had the disease, and the large ones
didn't ?

A. I can't say that. If there was a weak hog there they would take the disease
more readily.

Q. Dunn says that from ten to fifteen large sows were killed and burned ? Are
you piepared to deny it ?

A. Ten or fifteen, I won't deny it. A number were killed and burned.

Q. Did you see the caul fat being saved 1

A. Yes, sir. I asked Dunn what he was going to do with that fat he was savingv
and he said he was going to take it home, as it would make good fried cakes.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What else did you say to him ? Did you tell him it was cholera ?
A. I told these people, I swear distinctly, that these men understood we had cholera
there before they were there any length of time.

Q. Will you answer my question ? Are you prepared to state that what both of
these men said with regard to the pigs having cholera ?

A. 1 swear I didn't.

Q. In view of what you stated this morning about the large number that died and
were burned, and the twenty-seven cleaned, have you any explanation, further than you
have given, that these hogs were sound 1

A. I'm only going by my judgment.

By Mr McNicOL : — Q. Were the pens that you had at that time constructed on
the same principle as you have them now 1

A. Just exactly, sir.

Q. With a falling door for the hogs to pass out and in under it 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Would that have a tendency to make their backs red ?

A. I have had hogs stay there for an hour playing with it and rubbing themselves.
I am not prepared to say whether this was so or not.

Q. But it's possible ?

A. Yes, you may go there to-day and see some of them playing with it.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. You have already sworn that there were no spots on the
backs of those hogs, apart from the spots arising from the color being black and white.
Are you prepared to swear there were no spots on the backs of those hogs ?

A. I am not prepared to swear that there were some hogs that I might not have seen.

Q. Then you did not make a close inspection of these hogs 1

A. I did. I went and stood close to the wagon when they were being loaded.

Q There might have been spots on the hogs and you did not see it *{
A. There might have been.

Q. By rubbing on this door ?

A. It would be a very frivolous spot.

By Mr. KERNS : — Q. What time of day were these pigs taken down to the Central
Prison ?

A. During the day. In the morning as soon as we got a load ready they were
shipped. They were taken away at different times right along.

Q. Were any of them taken away in the evening ?
A. Not after dark at all. tt was in the evening.

Q. It was getting dark ?

A No, it wasn't. We quit work before the sun went down.

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61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What time was the last load ?

A. It might have been six or perhaps seven o'clock when they went away. I can't
swear positively as to that.

Q, Wouldn't it be possible, owing to the lateness in the day, for these strij s to be
cut out and you not discover it ?

A. I swear distinctly that those pieces could not have been cut out without my
noticing it.

Q. You say there might have been spots ?

A. There might have been spots, but 1 say there could not have been these pieces
cut out without my seeing it.

Q. You were not looking for strips 1

A. No. But if there had been I would have seen them.

By Mr. GERMAN : — Q. Did you examine all the hogs that went out of there with a
view of seeing that they were fit for food ?

A. I did, for my own safety. For I would rather have thrown ten hogs on the fire
than have had one that would be rejected by the veterinary.

Q. Did you satisfy your mind that all the hogs that went away from there were free
from disease ?

A. As far as my knowledge was concerned — as far as I knew they might have went
to the Prison and although I might have thought they were all right they might have
been condemned by the veterinary.

Q. But you satisfied your own mind that they were free from disease 1
A. Or I would not have allowed them to have gone.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :— Q. Were you satisfied on Saturday afternoon that th< re were
no more than twelve hogs all told that were diseased in the whole herd 1

A. I swear from the statement in my book. I wouldn't take it from memory,
exactly, that on the llth July, after Dr. Smith gave me instructions about burning those
hogs, and not allowing one to go there but what was killed, I sent my boy immediately
to go for his father to come and help us destroy those hogs. I made an entry of how
many were killed that were diseased. We cleaned up outside and burned what we could.
The number was sixteen.

Q. Were all the other hogs in the institution sound at that time, in view of what
you have stated ?

A. I do not say that. I can't say that. It is not reasonable. What I do swear
was that those that went away were sound to the best of my belief.

Q. Were all the pigs that were there on Saturday afternoon sound, excepting those
that w ere burned 1

A. I can't say that.

Q. Did you believe they were ?

A. I had no reason to believe that until some others got sick.

Q. What was your belief ?

A. That would be a difficult question for me to answer.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. Did they appear to be all sound ?
A. They appeared to be.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Just one more question ; are you receiving any extra com-
pensation for giving this evidence ?

A. I haven't put in my time yet. I don't know whether I will or not.

Q. Pardon me ; you have made no special arrangements to be paid for your evidence?
A. No, I was told to come here and I came.

THOMAS SMITH, sworn :

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. What is your name ?
A. Thomas Smith.

Q. Where do you live ?
A. Humber Bay.

Q. How long have you lived there ?
A. Two and a half years.

Mr. ST. JOHN : — Will Committee allow me to ask Mr. Warner a question.
Mr. WARNER recalled. .

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Do you know Thomas Smith ?
A. Yes, sir.

ty. Is he all right ? A respectable man ?
A. Yes, sir.

THOMAS SMITH, recalled :

By Mr. Sx.sFoHN : — Q. Were you present at the killing of the pigs on Monday, the
13th July ?

A. I was there on Monday.

Q. Not on Tuesday ?
A. I was not.

Q, Did you assist in killing the pigs on Monday •
A. Yes.

Q. What time did you arrive ?
A. About seven o'clock,

Q. What part did you take in the killing ?

A. I cleaned the heads of them. That was my job.

Q Did you assist in cleaning the insides of some of them ?

A. 1 assisted in pulling the insides out and holding them for the butcher.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q You had nothing to do with the opening ?
A. No.

Q. You assisted in what t

A. I assisted the other men in pulling them out of the pens and throwing them for
the butcher to stick.

Q. Have you heard Fred Newton's evidence here ?

A. [ heard some of it. I was sitting far back during the first d*y and didn't hear
at all.

Q. Did you hear Dunn's evidence ?

A. Some of it. Not as distinctly as Newton's.

Q What did you think of it ?

A. As far as I heard it, I think it's pretty nearly right. That is for Monday ?

Q Did you hear them say that all the hogs that were dressed were diseased 1

A. Yes. I heard them say that. Well, I thought myself that they were diseased,
but there was only two of them that I saw that I could say they were diseased, and that
was two of them that I saw butchered. There were six of them in the pen and we had
the five of them out. We scalded them and they went to the butcher. We scalded and
cleaned them, and I cleaned the heads of them myself, and when we went back the sixth
pig there died in the pen, and when I went back I saw two of them opaned and there
was not the least doubt that these two were not right.

Q Were those hogs dressed 1
A. They were dressed.

Q . And sent away in the waggon ?
A. And went away in the rig.

Q. You have no doubt about their being diseased ?

A. Not about these two. On some of the rest of them I saw little spots around the
ears.

Q. You did not examine the entrails of the rest of them ?
A. No. I did not.

Q. How many did you see dead the first day in the pen ?

A. I seen that one dead there in the pen, and can't say that I seen very many more
die.

Q. Did you see Warner drawing the dead hogs out 1

A. I did not. I saw no hogs burned that day only there was one of the next lot
after them five that was put on the fire.

Q. Warner says he drove them out ?

A. Not to my knowledge ; he did not on Monday.

Q. Could he very well have driven out several hogs on the first day without your
knowing it ?

A. I was working very busy myself and can't say. He was very busy himself.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No 1.) 1897-8

Q. As a matter of fact, evidence has been given that you killed and shipped some
57 hogs on the first day while yon was there. What time did you get there?

A. I was there at 7 o'clock, and there was eight or nine hogs just being put on the
rig when I was there. I thought I was at the cleaning of about 40.

Q. You were pretty busy ? It was done pretty lively 1
A. Yes. It was.

Q. As you came to each pen, you cleaned out each pen as you came to it ?
A, I can't just say that.

Q. You stuck every living hog as you came to them 1
A. There was none stuck but what was alive.

Q. Did you see any spots on any of them ?

A. Only those I told you about on the heads, unless one of those two I saw the
insides taken out of.

Q. You helped at the scalding ?

A. I was pulling them forward to the scald .5

Q. Did you see any scalded that was taken out and burned.
A. There was only one and I was cleaning its head.

Q. Did you see any taken off the hooks and burned ?
A. No. I did not.

Q. Could that have been done without your seeing it 1
A. It might.

Q. From what you saw during that day, was there any of that meat sent away that
you considered fit for human food 1

A. I have not the least doubt about those two that I spoke of.

Q. The balance — what would you say about them.
A. I don't know anything about the balance.

By Mr. GERMAN :

Q. I suppose when you were there seeing these hogs being burned it was a matter of
inquiry and discussion as to what was the cause.

A. There was very little talk with me that day, for I didn't see the fire. I was
near enough to feel the smell of it.

Q. Very naturally it would be the subject of discussion and inquiry among the men ?
A. There was no talking at all with the men round me where the scalding was.

Q. No talk at all ?

A. Nothing at all that I could make any remark about, for we were hurrying to
get a dozen or fifteen ready for the rig when it came.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1S97-&

Q. You were all very busy, and did not have time to look to see whether the hog&
were spotted or anything else 1

A. I didn't go over them for that.

Q. There were two that you say you saw the entrails of ?
A. Yes.

Q. How did you come to see the entrails of these two ?

A. I just went over to the bench to see what they were like after the pig died in
the pen.

Q. What were they like 1

A. They were a scarlet color, kind of shining red.

Q. Did you notice the meat of these hogs 1

A. I noticed that there was a little piece in the flank of one of them discolored and
the butcher took a slice off, but they were very soft and you could scarcely notice where
it had been taken off.

Q. What became of these hogs ?

A. I helped to put those two hogs on the rig.

Q. You know Warner very well 1

A. I know him very well. He is my neighbor.

Q. He was there superintending ?

A. He was there superintending, and giving his instructions to have the hogs
well cleaned, and they were well cleaned, and he was a good butcher that was there,
and I never spoke four words to him in my life that day, now.

Q. Did you hear Warner tell butcher Newton to be careful as to the hogs that
he was killing ?

A. To be careful about the cleaning of them and to clean them well, and so
they were well cleaned.

Q. Not to be careful to not kill those that were diseased ?
A. He might have told him so, but I did not hear it.

Q. I don't suppose Warner was whispering much.

A. He did not. He was going around as much as any man there and doing
everything he could put bis hands to.

Q. They were nice pigs 1

A. They were not. They were too soft and slobby.

Q. They were the same as any pigs would be killing them in the summer time I

A. They were softer that good sound pork as I was killing.

•

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. You saw meat cut out of some hogs 'I

A. Just that one. A little slice with the knife. You would scarcely know he
did it.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You did not hear Newton give his evidence to that effect 1
A. No. I did not, but he will not deny doing it.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. Did you state to Warner at any time that they
could not blame him if diseased hogs went to the Central Prison, as you had heard
him giving instructions that none were to be put on the hooks, except good hogs?

A. I heard him say — it was the cleaning of them I heard him talking about.

Q. You never heard him say to be careful ae to the quality of the hogs. You
are very sure about that?

A. Yes, sir. Of course I don'o know what he told the butcher when I wasn't
near him.

By Mr. HAYCOCK : — Q. These hogs that were being killed were not in the condi-
tion that hogs usually are when they are killed 1

A. No. They were not.

Q. Not large and fat enough?

A. They were not good sound pork what 1 would prepare for the market.

Q. What I had reference to is the size and condition of them. They were not
in such large and good condition as hogs usually are that are killed for the market ?

A. No.

Q. What was the explanation that was given that they should be killed while
they were in that condition. What was the talk round the building?

A. There was no talk around the building. I heard there was choleraj there
on Saturday night when I was going home.

Q. But you must have known there was some reason ?
A. I knew that cholera was the reason.

Q. All the rest must have known ?

A. I can't say that. I can't remember any talk about it.

Q. But you knew it?

A. I knew it well enough.

By Mr. McNicoL: — Q. The pigs would be soft because they were not properly
matured for killing, I suppose ?

A. They were not ripe pigs in the state they were slaughtered at all.

By Mr. ST. JOHN: — Q. They were not pigs that appeared to be in their natural
state and fit to be slaughtered ?

A. No.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. When did you know that there was cholera there ?

A. On Saturday night the kids, the youngsters, round the H umber all knew it
after I came home from the mill between 5 and 6 o'clock.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Was this the Saturday before you went there?

A. Yes. And on the Sunday I saw the smoke from the pigs that were burning
there. On Monday morning I went down to the mill and it wasn't running that day,
and Mr. Warner asked me to come and help them, and I did it.

Q. Was Newton there1?

A. He was there and all of them.

Q Did he know there was cholera there?

A. I knew it, and all the kids round the country knew it.

Q. On Saturday afternoon the children all knew there was cholera there?

A. They told me in our house when I came home that [it was there, and on
Sunday when I went over the Humber bridge, I smelt the pigs burning there.

WILLIAM NEWTON, sworn : —
Examined by Mr. ST. JOHN : —

Q Where do you reside ?
A. At Dovercourt village.

Q Are you a brother of. Fred Newton?
A. Yes, sir.

Q What is your father's name ?
A. Thomas Newton.

Q. Otherwise known as Oapt. Newton ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. He has been an employee of the Ontario Government for many years, has'nt he ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q What's your business?
A. Butcher.

Q In what line of butchering are you ?

A Buying cattle, killing them and selling them.

Q. Retail or wholesale is that 1
A. Wholesale.

Q. How long have you been in the business of butcher ?
A. For myself?

Q. Yourself end others ?

A. I started in June, 1883. I was not directly in business at first when I started.

Q. How long have you been in business for yourself ?
A. Since May, 1895.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Q. You were lately in partnership ?
A. Yee, sir.

Q. What was the name of the firm 1

A. There was no firm. We just worked together on shares.

Q. What is the usual method adopted by a wholesale butcher in the trade 1

A. The usual method, my method, is to go out in the country or to the market, buy
cattle, take them home and slaughter them and sell them wherever I can.

Q. That is the method adopted all round Toronto ?
A. Yes, sir

Q. Have you any personal knowledge of anything done at the slaughtering of the
hogs at the Humber piggery in July, 1896?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Just state to the Committee briefly what you did ; when you were engaged ;
where you were engaged, and why you were engaged.

A. Well, of course, you all heard how I was engaged. Hunter's son came out to
my house in Hamburg avenue and asked me if me and my brother would be engaged
to-morrow, Monday. I said No ; and he drove over to my brother's place with me, and
my brother went away with him, and saw the father (Mr.. Hunter) and arrangements
were made there. Fred, came back and told me that he wanted me to come to the
Humber piggery to kill pigs, and that he wanted to start about one o'clock Monday
morning.

Q. That wae, to start from home ?

A. Yes, sir. They were to come with me. He put his horse in the rig and came
over to my place, and I got a lunch there and started.

Q. What time did you ajrive there ?

A. I would not be sure. I suppose it would be — I can't say for sure — about three
o'clock. I am not prepared to swear what time I got there.

Q. You have heard the evidence that the water was boiling and everything ready
when you got there ?

A. I heard it but I can't say.

Q. What did you do during the two days, Monday and Tuesday, that is, the prin-
cipal work you did ?

A. I was hauling hogs to the Central Prison.

Q. Did you draw the whole of the 97 hogs 1

A. I drew all that were drawed. Everyone of them to the Central Prison slaughter
house.

Q. By what route ?

A. I came down to the lake shore to King street, along by the Mercer Reformatory,
up Atlantic avenue and in through the brick yards to the Central Prison slaughter
house.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you see any of the killing operations !

A. Just the first five or six. I wouldn't be prepared to swear how many it was
until there was a load ready for me.

Q Did you assist in the killing of the first load 1

A. I just scraped them. I did not see any of the killing done. Not to my know-
ledge. I helped to scald or rather scrape them.

Q. Did you hear any conversation going on ?
A. None whatever.

Q. Did you see the opening of any of those hogs that were taken away in the first
load?

A. Yes.

.
Q. Any disease ?

A. I passed the remark about the first hog I saw " This fellow must have been
fighting " which he might have been. I said " He's got a bruise here. What is it ? "
I drew somebody's attention to it.
1

Q. Do you know who it was ?

A. I do not know who it was. It was just a kind of sore on his ham. Somebody
Answered me that he had been cut or something the same — castrated, I suppose — that
was all very well. I took it that way naturally enough. I saw them opening the pigs
and the entrails were dark and didn't look natural. I went over to my brother. He
had his knife in his mouth and I said " Fred I wouldn't put my knife in my mouth.
There's something wrong here." I had never seen cholera and didn't know what iu was.
That'* all I can tell you.

Q. Have you had much to do with killing hogs 1
A. I have not had much experience in killing pigs.

Q. They were all diseased ?

A. They were all off color and I wanted my brother to be careful with the knife]

Q. Your suspicion was aroused that there was something not right 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q Did you know then they had cholera 1
A. No, sir.

.
Q. Did Hunter's son tell you they had cholera 1

A. No. He didn't. Nobody told me until my brother Fred, told me at night.

Q. What was the condition of the meat you were drawing that day. Was it fit for
food?

A. In my j udgment it was not.

Q. Did you see any meab cut out of any the hogs you were drawing ?
A. I can't say it was cut out, but there was in several of the hogs a large opening
under the jaw where they were stuck.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Larger than usual ?
A. Yes.

Q. And larger than would be natural ?

A. Yep, of course, I didn't put it down for anything ; it might have been from bad
butchering.

Q. Larger than a butcher generally makes ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you see any spots on any hogs that you drew ?
A. I did.

Q. How many of them ?
A. I can't say how many.

Q. Would there be a number of them 1

A. Yes. There would be a number of them.

Q. Where were these spots located ?

A. All over the body, in different places. Some of them didn't have spots at all.

Q. How large was the largest spots you recollect ?
A. I don't know, about the size of a saucer.

Q. And varying from that size down to small spots ? Is that correct 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you believe during the day when you were drawing them that something
was wrong with them, that these hogs were diseased ?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. Did you hear any instructions that none but sound hogs should be drawn to the
Central Prison ?

A. Mo instructions at all, except for me to draw to the Central Prison. That's all I
heard of it.

Q. Who received them at the Central Prison 1
A. Mr. Moore, Mr. McKinnon and a prisoner.

Q. What was done with the hogs ?

A. They were hung up in the cooler ; I think we carried them right into the cooler,
I remember rightly.

Q. How were they taken into the cooler 1

A. They were carried in. There is a table like this, now that I remember walking
up the steps, got on the table, and hung them on the hooks.

Q. How many did you draw the first day 1
A. I can't say.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1879-8-

Q. It has b*en stated about fifty -seven hogs ; Warner says so. Would that be the
right number ?

A. I cannot aay ; I didn't keep track of them. I hardly think there was that many,

Q. Was there more the first day than the second ?
A. I cannot say.

Q. How many would you draw each load ?

A. I do not know. It would be according to the size.

Q How many 1

A. I think I have had something like six to twelve.

Q. Between two and three o'clock the next day, how many hogs did you have
delivered ?

A. I think I was taking about six loads of hogs a day, as near as I can recollect. It
was quite a distance.

Q. Half the pork drawn would be after three o'clock in the afternoon, from three
o'clock and after ?

A. I cannot say. I would not be sure of how many I would have there by that
time.

Q . When did you get to the Prison with your first load 1
A. I guess it would be about half past six or seven o'clock.

Q. Certainly not more than four loads would be drawn up till three o'clock in the
afternoon out of the six you drew 1

A. I would not swear, as I did not keep track of it 1

Q. You never let up in your drawing ?
A. No, sir, except to get my dinner.

Q. When did you arrive with the last load at the Prison ?
A. I can't answer that question.

Q. About what time 1
A. On the first day 1

Q. On the first day.
A. I can't remember.

Q. Was it about dark ]

A. I think they stopped killing about 6 o'clock, and it would be probably half past
seven.

Q. So that you would draw at least three loads from three o'clock to half past seven,
wouldn't you 1

A. Yes. I guess I would ; I think I would.

Q. So at least you drew two loads after three o'clock 1
A. Oh, yes.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you make any remarks to anybody during that day at any time with regard
to the quality or condition of the insides of those hogs 1
A. Did I make any remarks to any person ?

Q. Yes.

A. No. Only to my brother.

Q. Think, now.

A. Most certainly, I did. As I was going into the Prison my sister, who keeps a
fruit stand on Queen street

Q. Who is she ?
A. Mrs. Tail.

Q. Where does she live ?

A. On Queen street. She knew my horse, and she called out and asked me for a
pluck, and I said, " Kate, I wouldn't give you one." She says, " Why ?" and I said
" There's something wrong here. I don't like it."

Q. What is a pluck ?

A. The heart, liver, lights and wizen.

Q. What is the wizen 1
A. The gullet.

Q. Did you see any wizens or gullets of these hogs during the day 1
A. Yes.

Q What condition were they in ?
A They were unnatural.

Q Are you prepared to say that the gullets

A. I am not talking about the gullets. I'm talking about the pluck.

Q. I am talking about the wisen.

A. And I was talking about the pluck. Well, I never took

Q. Go on and describe it.

A. The lights were full of blood, dark in color, spotted ; as to the gullet, I didn't
pay any particular attention to that. It was just the lights. You could see them a
distance away, and you would know that by looking at them/

Q. What would be the average weight of the hogs you drew there ?

A. The average weight. Well, there were some big and some little ones. I would
judge they would go better than 100 pounds.

Q Would they go to 130?
A. I don't know.

Q. What would be the size of a hog that would weigh eighty -five pounds']
A. The size of the hog ? It just depends on how the hog has been fed.

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Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What would it appear like ?

A. It would be a small hog j it wouldn't be a big hog by any means. It doesn't
take a big hog to weigh 100 pounds.

Q. Did you take two men to load the hogs on ?

A. I would be in the wagon to fix the hogs to suit myself, and the men would lift
them in.

Q. Who is the man McKinnon you mentioned1?

A. I never knew that man until I saw him at the Oentral Prison.

Q Did he ever have any conversation with you or in your presence 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did he ever make any remark to you about the condition of those hogs ?
Mr. GERMAN objected that McKinnon should tell his own story.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Then you have no doubt that every hog drawn to the Central
Prison was diseased ?

A. I would not say that every hog that was drawn to the Central Prison was
diseased.

Q You would not say that 1
A. No, sir.

Q. What would you say ?

A. From my knowledge of pigs, I know a good pig when I see it. I would not say
that any of the hogs were diseased. I would not say they had the cholera. I don't know
what cholera is, but there was something wrong with the hogs.

Q. Would you buy any of these hogs 1

A. No, for the simple fact that they had disease there.

Q, Would you eat any of those hogs ?

A. No. Nor any pork for many months after.

Q. Have you eaten any since ?

A. Not for quite a long time after.

By Hon. Mr. HARCOURT : — Q. What was it your sister asked you for ?
A. The pluck.

Q. What was your answer to her ?
A. That I wouldn't give her one.

Q Why did you not say that they were being burned and that you could not get
her one t

A. Couldn't I have got one the next time I went back 1 I could have told them to
save me one.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897->

By Mr. GERMAN : — Q. You have just said in answer to Mr. St. John that you would
not eat them yourself because they had disease there 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You knew there was something wrong with the herd of hogs 1
A. I did.

Q. And you knew that, by leason of the fact that they were burning the hogs ?
A. I did not say anything about burning the hogs.

Q. But I am asking you now. Is that not so ?
A. Yes.

Q. You knew they were killing all the hogs 1
A. Yes.

Q. And that the herd of hogs was diseased ?
A. I did not know that, but I was suspicious.

Q. And by reason of that suspicion you would fear to eat of the hogs ?
A. Most decidedly.

Q. That was quite enough ? You would not pretend to set up your opinion as to
the fitness of those hogs for human food as against those veterinary surgeons, I suppose !

A. No. I would not.

Q. Notwithstanding that there was disease in that herd, there might be some hogs
in the herd that would be fit for human food 1

A. Certainly.

Q. You were occupied with the drawing ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were not paying attention to the killing particularly 1
A. No.

Q.' And had no interest other than to get the hogs down to the Central Prison as
rapidly as possible ?

A. No.

Q. You had some conversation, 1 suppose with the other employees there as to what
the trouble was ?

A. No, sir.

Q. NoneatalH
A. No, sir.

Q. No desire to find out what was the matter 1

A. I had no desire. It was none of my business. I was getting paid for my work
and didn't want to interfere.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You saw a lot of nice hogs being burned up, and yoa had no inquisitiveness as
to what was the matter with them ?

A. Only I had an idea that there was something wrong.

Q. Was there no discussion between you and your brother, and the others as to
what was wrong ?

A. Only what I have told you.

Q. You were not engaged in any other employment at all at that time, but had
ample spare time to go and work 1

A. I made time.

Q. You told us that when Hunter's son came to you on Sunday, you told him that
you were not doing anything and like your brother were willing to get a job.

A. I did not want a job.

Q. Did not want any job, then why did you take it 1

A. Oh, I took the job. I did'nt want it. I would like one now, but not a steady job.

Q. And you were not satisfied with the compensation you received ?

A. I didn't say anything about it. I got $5 for myself and for my horse and wagon,
but it wasn't enough.

Q. And your brother was not satisfied ?
A. As far as I know, he was not.

Q. When after this killing did you first talk about this again 1

A. My brother came to me about three months ago 1 should judge, and told me
there was going to be a kick about this Humber piggery and I told him to keep out of it.
That I would have nothing to do with it. And the next thing I heard St. John had
been to see him and he had been to see St. John. I didn't pay any attention to it, didn't
want to come here, don't want to be here now neglecting my business while I am here,

Q. Mr. St. John came to you ?
A. Yen, sir.

Q And took down your statement in writing ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Which you signed 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You did not think it sufficient importance for your brother, you or any person
else to be bothered with it 1

A, I didn't want to be bothered with it ; it was none of my business.

Q. Did you think it was not of sufficient importance to be bothered with ?

A. Not only that, I didn't like this business at all. I like to keep out of such things.

Q. You went down to see Mr. Bradford ?
A. I did not.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Your brother says you did.
A. I never went to see him.

Q. How is it your brother says you went ?

A. If he did, he says wrongly. He has made a mistake. I don't think he says I
went with him. I never saw Mr. Bradford and don't know him.

Q. Did you see Mr. McKinnon 1
A. When?

Q. At any time after delivering the hogs at the Central Prison ?
A. Yes. I did.

Q. When?

A. Last month some time.

<^. And he and you were talking about this hog question 1
A. He was talking to my brother about it.

Q. And that there would be something in it for somebody ?
A. I never heard that word.

Q. He didn't say that to you ?
A. I never heard that word at all.

Q. And did your brother say that to you ?

A. My brother ? No, sir. He never told me anything about it. I didn't want
to discuss that question myself or anybody else.

Q. Why didn't you keep out of it ?
A. I couldn't.

Q. Mr. St. John troubled you so much that you couldn't keep out of it 1

A. No, sir. He knew I was there hauling the hogs and he would have me here.

By Mr. MATHESON. — Q Mr. German has asked you a question about putting up
your opinion against that of Dr. Smith and Dr. Sweetapple. I want to know if, after
what you had seen at the killing and burning of these hogs at the Humber, and with
the condition of the hogs that you drew to the Central Prison, if after the knowledge
you yourself obtained, even if these gentlemen had told you it was all right, would you
have felt inclined to purchase these hogs for your business ?

A. No, sir.

Q You would put your opinion against theirs on that question ?

A. I would, sir. If I was to go and buy cattle out of a stable that was supposed
to be diseased, do you mean to say that it wouldn't ruin my trade ?

By Mr. KIDD : — Q If you bought hogs similar to this drove and found, after
dressing and preparing them for the market, that they were as these hogs were, would
you attempt to take these hogs to the market at Toronto, and sell them for human food 1

A If I did, Awde would be there to take them from me.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS: — Q. You have been engaged in business for yourself about two
years 1

A. Since 1895.

Q. What class of animals do you buy and sell on the market 1
A. Any fat cattle I can buy.

Q. Just cattle 1

A. Cattle, lambs and sheap.

Q. You don't buy hogs ?

A. I have bought hogs to kill.

Q. How many cattle a week to kill 1

A. About five or six take the average the year round. I handle all I can. I have
killed as many as twenty cattle in some weeks, and some weeks haven't killed any.
I haven't killed any since I have been bothered with this thing here.

Q. You would average five or six- the year round ?
A. Yes. I can show that.

Q. Would that be a fair statement of your business 1

A. Yep, as near as I can judge. I am not an extensive dealer but am working on a
little capital.

Q. How many days did you haul hogs from the piggery to the Central Prison 1
A. Just two

Q. Are you quite sure that you hauled all that were taken to the slaughter house
at the Central Prison ?

A. I am not sure that I hauled them all. There might have been some taken
there that I knew nothing about, but I hauled all that were killed in those two days.

Q. Were they finished killing when you took the last away on the second day ?
A. Yes.

Q And did you take all that were left hanging on the hooks to go to the Central
Prison ?

A. Yes.

Q. There were some large pigs, if I remember rightly 1

A. There were some large pigs and some little ones on the last load.

Q. Did you take all that were there after they had finished killing ?
A. I most certainly did. I wouldn't leave them there.

Q Then you really hauled all that wf re taken — you are sure of that ?
A. Oh, yes. Unlees somebody hauled them before or fetched some more thtre
afterwards.

By Mr. MATHESON :— Q. You did not meet any other person hauling any 1
A. No.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS: — Q. You saw no hogs there after you took the last load ?
A No, sir.

Q What time of the day on Tuesday did you take the last load to the Central
Prison?

A. I think it was well on towards dark.

Q Just as near as you can remember ?

A. I can't remember. T guess I wouldn't leave the Humber till after seven o'clock.
I am not sure what time it was I left the piggery. I remember that the man who works
at the Central Prison rode home with me that night. He was a lame man. He will
be able to tell you.

Q. I do not mean to fifteen minutes or half an hour.

A. 1 know it was near dark when I got to the Central Prison. It must have
been near eight o'clock, or thereabouts.

Q. How long does it take you to go to the Prison ?

A. I can't tell. It would take about two hours ; perhaps a little better.

Q. Well, then, if you reached the Prison about flight o'clock with the last load accord-
ing to your statement, it would take two hours — it would be somewhere about six when
you left the piggery ?

A. I am not swearing the exact time that I got there.

Q. Did you get there at all that night 1
A. Oh, yes.

Q Before nine o'clock ?

A. I must have been, of course.

Q. Was it pitch dark when you got there ?
A. Just the dusk of the evening.

Q When you unloaded the hogs that night had you light enough to see them ?
A It was just dusk.

Q. You could see the hogs in the wagon when unloading ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And it was probably about six or seven when you left the piggery ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many hogs did you have on the last load 1 Have you any recollection ? Or
did you keep account ?

A. No. I did not. Mr. Moore or Mr. McKinnon was keeping track. T am not
sure which.

Q. Where were they?

A. At the slaughter house at the Prison.

Q. They kept track of the number of the loads ?

A. Yes, sir.

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Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. This being the last, won't you naturally know the number 1

A. I had some heavy hogs in the last load ; I think it took three or four of us to
carry them out.

Q. Who put them on the last load 1

A, On the wagon ? I can't say that. Warner, I think, helped me on with them,
and Mr. Oster, if I remember rightly.

Q. Are you sure who took them off the last load ?

A. I'm not sure. I can't say, It was either Moore or McKinnon was away ; which
of them it was they will be able to tell you that.

Q. Was it either Moore or McKinnon ]

A. I am sure of that. It was either one or the other, most decidedly, or it may be
both.

THOMAS WHITEHEAD called. —

Mr. ST. JOHN : — I would like to ask Mr. Warner a question.

Mr. WARNER recalled. —

By Mr. ST. JOHN :— Q. Mr. Warner, do you know this man Whitehead ? It he all
light ?

A. Oh, yes, as far as I know.

Q. You say that he is all right ?

A. Well, what do you mean by that ?

Q. Is he all right 1 Is he reliable ?

A. Oh, I can't say as to that. He might be and he might not be.

THOMAS WHITEHEAD, sworn. —

Examined by Mr. ST. JOHN :— Q. Did you assist in the killing of the pigs at the
Humber in July, 18961
A. I did.

Q. How long did you help there ?
A. I was there one day.

Q. What day 1
A. Monday.

<Q You started when ?
A. In the morning.

Q. What time?
A. Can't tell you.

-Q. About what time ?

A. I can't tell you. It was in the morning when we started.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Q. Was it late in the morning ?

A. It was early in the morning. I left the folks in bed and went without
breakfast.

Q. Where did you have breakfast ?
A. At Mr. Warner's.

Q. Were you working some time before breakfast 1

A. I can't exactly say how long ; likely an hour or two.

Q. How long did you work that day ?
A. Until they quit.

Q. About what time did they quit ?

A. I can't just say. It would be somewhere about six or seven o'clock.

Q, Might be seven or it might be half past ?
A. Exactly.

Q. Did you see the first hogs killed 1
A. Yes, I did.

Q. So you were there in time to see the first hogs killed ?
A. I was.

Q. How were they killed ?

A. They were knocked with a hammer,

Q. Did you hear the evidence of Fred Newton ?

A. I heard Hunter say, "Don't knock any more like that. You bruise them
too bad."

Q. Did you hear the evidence of Fred Newton given here ?
A. Yes.

Q. And Frank Dunn t
A. Yes.

Q. And Thos. Smith ?
A. Yes.

Q. Did they give any evidence here in regard to what took place on the first day
that you would contradict 1 What do you say as to the correctness of any evidence
given by these witnesses ?

A. It was pretty nearly correct, I think.

Q. As far as you know 1
A. As far as I know.

Q. Who were present at the beginning of the killing ?

A. Thos. Smith, Dunn, Hovey, me, Warner, Bill Newton, Fred Newton, Mr. Oster*
Hobt. Oster and Mr. Hunter.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Was Mr. Hunter there ?

A, In the morning early. He was giving directions to hurry up.

Q. How long was Mr. Hunter there in the morning after giving those directions I
A. Not very long.

Q. Did he make any remarks at all outside of that 1
A. Not to me.

Q. To Warner t

A. All that I heard him say was, " Hurry up and get started, boys."

Q. And you did hurry up and get started ?
A. Yes.

Q. Were you there before or after Hunter ?
A. Before Mr. Hunter.

Q. Do you remember anything wrong with the first hog that was killed ?
; A. There was something with the back ham. I don't know what was wrong with it.

Q. What was the nature of it ?

A. I don't know. We cut it out of the back ham. It seemed to be a kind of a
running sore.

Q. What was the nature of it 1

A. I didn't exactly look, but you could smell it.

Q. Was the odor strong ?
A. Yes, it was.

Q. How strong ]

A. Strong enough to knock a horse down.

Q. Was he fit for food ?

A. I would not like to eat him.

• Q. Was he shipped \
A. He was strung on the hooks.

Q. And taken away in the wagon *\
A. Yes.

Q. Was he fit for food 1

A. I would not like to eat it, though I suppose I have eat worse and didn't know it*

Q. Were you helping to catch the hogs ?
A. I helped to take part in the catching.

Q. Did they stick the hogs ?

A. They stuck every hog that was living as we came to them.

27 J. 193

•
61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you help in the holding of them ?
A. idid.

Q. Did you take any other part 1
A. I dragged them up to the scald.

Q. Did you help to scald 1

A. I did not, I helped to scrape.

Q. Many of them ?

A. Quite a number of them.

Q Can you tell me if any hogs that were scalded and scraped were spotted and in a
"bad condition ?

A. I took particular notice of one. Mr. Oster said, " Look, look." He was scraping
the heads of them and under the front legs there was a kind of a little running sore.

.
Q. Was that hog shipped ?

A. I can't swear whether that hog was shipped or not.

Q. And what was done with it ?
A. It was dressed.

Q. What remarks did Oster make about it ?
A. That is all he said.

Q. Describe the condition of that hog so far as you know — the appearance of it.

A. It just had a running sore on the front leg and had little blotches on the front
leg. I mean spots.

Q. Do you mean to say that hogs were scalded and dressed that were blotched and
had spots on them 1

A. Quite a number. Some were scalded and had spots on them and were hung on
the hooks and dressed, and took off the hook and put on the fire.

Q. And you saw some scalded that had spots on them and were sent away on the
wagon 1

A. I can't swear as to that. They were hung on the side beam.

Q. Did you see any hogs taken off the beam and put on the fire 1

A. Those hogs were taken off the centre beam, that is, the dressing beam.

Q. The side beam was used to hold the hogs after they were dressed ?
A. Yes?

Q. And you did not see any taken off the side beam and put on the fire 1
A. I can't say that.

Q. Those hogs that you noticed were blotched, you remember seeing placed on the
«ide beam ready for delivery ?

A. Yes.

•
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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. It has been given in evidence that some of the hogs were scalded before being
opened and put on the scraping board and put on the fire *? How many of that kind were
there on the first day ?

A. There were five or seven on the first day. I would not say which.

Q. There would be as many as five hogs slaughtered that presented such a bad
appearance that they took them off the scalding board and threw them on the fire 1

A. Yes.

Q. Did you see any dead hogs there that first day 1
A. Yes.

-
Q. How many ^

A. I seen either Hunter or Oster wheeling out a hog in the morning when we got
there.

Q. That hog was not stuck 1
A. No.

Q. What condition were these hogs in that you were killing and dressing that day ?
A. Every pen we went into seemed to be in a coughing condition.

Q. Was that a pretty general thing in the pens ?

A. Pretty general I Every pen that you went into the hogs were coughing and
barking.

•

Q. Is that right 1
A. Yes.

Q. You have already stated that nearly all, as I understand it, that pretty generally
throughout the pens the hogs were coughing1?

A. Yes.

Q. So that amongst the hogs that were sent away a great number of them must have
been in a coughing condition before they were killed 1

A. Yes.

Q. Did you notice whether the hogs appeared to get worse in the afternoon than
they were in the morning 1

A. They seemed to get weaker as we went along. I have had experience in holding
hogs.

Q. What was the condition of these hogs 1
A. These were the easiest I ever held.

Q. In what way (\

A. They seemed to be weaker.

•

Q. And you mean to say that the hogs generally that you killed and dressed thatjday
were in a weak condition ?

A. There were some that were stronger than others.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8-

Q. Can you give a description as far as you can resollect of some o f the hogs which
were killed and dressed and which you noticed anything irregular. Were there many
hogs blotched ?

A. Yes. Quite a number of them.

Q. Were there spots on those that were shipped away ?

A. I won't swear they were shipped awiy; they were hung on the side beam.

8th January, 189&
CHAKLES MOORE, sworn.

Examined by Hon. Mr. DAVIS :

Q. Your name is Ohas. Moore, is it 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is your business 1
A. Butcher.

Q. How long haVe you been in the butcher business 1
A. Thirty years.

Q. Where are you employed now ?

A. In the government slaughter house at the Central Prison.

Q. How long had you been there ?
A. About eighteen years,

Q. Do you remember hogs being brought to the Prison from the piggery at the time
of the cholera outbreak ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q, What have you to do with them ?

A. I received the hogs as they were brought in there.

Q. Where?

A. At the cold storage at the slaughter house at the Central Prison.

Q. From whom did you receive them 1
A. Prom Wm. Newton.

Q. How did he bring them ?
A. In a horse and wagon.

Q. When did he begin to deliver them 1
A. On Monday, the 13th July, 1896.

Q. How many days did he continue delivering them ?
A. Two days.

Q. When did he finish 1

A. On Tuesday evening the 14th July.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Q. About what time in the evening ?

A. I would not be just positive as to the time. It might be 7 o'clock and might be
later.

Q. Was it dark ?
A. Getting dark.

Q. So dark you couldn't see the hogs on the last load ?

A. No, sir, but it was kind of getting dusk in the slaughter house ; we could see the
hogs all right.

Q. Where were these hogs all put ?

A. They were all put in the cold storage excepting the last four or five that came
on the last load.

Q. All but the last load were put in the cold storage, is that it ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q And on that last load there were how many ]
A. Four or five ; I would not be positive.

Q. There would not be more than four or five 1

A. I wouldn't swear it, but to the best of my knowledge.

.
Q. How many would there be?

A. To the best of my knowledge, there would not be more than four or five.

Q. Where was the last load put 1

A. Hung up in the slaughter house.

Q. They were kept entirely separate 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did anyone inspect the hogs that were put in the cold storage ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who did ?

A. Dr. Sweetapple.

Q. When did he come first to inspect ?j
A. On Monday.

Q. What time of day, as near a& you can tell 1

A. I would say between 11 and 1, as near as I can remember. ]

Q. What did he do when he came ?]

A. There was a knock came to the door. .1 went to it and Dr. Sweetapple asked if
there were any hogs came from the piggery at the Humbar. I said there was and he
said he had come to see them. I said all right, and took him into the cold storage, and he
examined the hogs.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you see him examine them 1
A. I saw him. I was with him.

Q. Did he examine them carefully ?
A. He did.

Q. How many would there be there at the time 1
A. There might be between 30 or 40.

Q. Was there any further inspection at any other time ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who inspected them ?

A. Dr. Sweetapple and Mr. Hunter.

Q. When?

A. On the evening of Tuesday the 14th.

Q. You are sure of that 1
A. Yes, Biz.

Q. Who was with Dr. Sweetapple ?
A. Mr. Hunter.

Q. They came there together ]
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did they do when they came there 1

A. I did not go in there that time. I was in there a long time, long enough the day
before and got a chill, and I did not want to get another chill.

Q. You saw them go into the cold storage ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were they there some little time 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You did not know what they did while there ?
A. No, sir.

Q. You are sure Dr. Sweetapple was there on Tuesday 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. When were those hogs taken away from there ^
A. On Wednesday the 15th.

Q. Who took them away 1
A. Mr. Harris.

Q. Was he there himself ?

A. Yes, with two men and two rigs, as far as I can remember.

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6 1 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897 -8

Q. Were you in the cold storage when they were there 1
A. Yes, sir. I helped to carry the hogs out.

Q. Did Mr. Harris examine them at all ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Pretty thoroughly 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were they all taken away on Wednesday morning ?
A. All except a few hogs.

Q. When were they taken away 1

A. They were all away before noon on Wednesday.

Q. Are you also sure that no hogs were taken away before Wednesday morning ?
A. I am satisfied of that, sure of it.

Q. What about those four or five that were put in the slaughter house separate $
Did Mr. Harris take them ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were they inspected by Dr. Sweetapple 1
A. I would not say.

Q. Say they were not, if you think they were not.
A. Not to my recollection. They were not.

Q. You think these four or five were not inspected by Dr. Sweetapple ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Did you examine them yourself 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What do you say as to their quality for food ?

A. They were all right and fit for anybody to eat. I have had a long experience as
a butcher and know a sound hog when I see it.

Q. Did anybody else examine these four or five hogs to your knowledge 1
A. No.

Q. Not Mr. Harris ?

A. Oh, he examined them all.

Q. Both those inside and outside the cold storage 1

A. Yes, sir. There was none of these hogs that went away that Mr. Harris did not.
pay particular attention to.

Q. And you are sure — there are just two or three things about which there is some
difference of opinion, — that there were no hogs taken away from the cold storage or the
slaughter house until Wednesday morning ?

A. Yes, sir. I swear that.

199

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.)

Q. Also that Dr. Sweetapple was there on Monday and also on Tuesday afternoon ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are also sure that there were not more than four or five hogs in the slaughter
house 1

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr MACNISH : — Q. Repeatedly it was stated before the Committee that the hogs
were in a bad condition, that they were mutilated, that strips were cut off the flaps. Did
you find any of that ?

A. No. I did not. No.

Q. Were any of them with bad spots the size of your hand 1
A. No, sir, they were not.

Q, You considered them fit for human food ?
A. I did.

Q. Did you examine these hogs closely enough to see if there was anything cut off
them?

A. Yes, sir. Closely enough that if there had been anything cut off the hogs I
would have been able to tell.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Have you got your books that tell how things were run
there, at the slaughter house ?

A. No. I have not got them.

Q. Why have you not brought them ?
A. I was not asked for them.

Q Were you not asked to bring everything ? Where have you got the weights
entered ?

A. I have a memorandum of a slip.

Q. Why haven't you got a book 1

A. Because I have no orders to put it in a book.

Q. Do you keep no books at all 1
A. Yes, sir. I do.

Q. What kind of books do you keep ?

A. These hogs were not for the slaughter house. 1 keep a book for each institution
which shows the delivery of every day's meat and the details of it, and shows everything,
how it's received and how it's disposed of.

Q. And the weights that you receive and dispose of to the different institutions ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you a similar set of books for these 97 hogs 1
A. No, sir.

Q. Why didn't you enter it in that book 1
A. I wasn't told to do it.

200

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Although you keep separate books for the receipts of all meat and the weights
and the manner of disposal of all meats received, you did not keep a record because you
were not told to of these hogs 1

A. I had no book for that purpose.

Q. Were not these " meats received " by the Central Prison 1
A. They were received for Mr. Harris, as far as I knew.

Q. Were you aware when this meat was being received that it was being received
lor Mr. Harris ?

A. No. I was not.

Q. Then why did you not keep this in your books the same as other meats ?
A. I had no reason to do so.

Q. Explain why you did not enter this in your books.

Hon. Mr. DAVIS protested that the witness had given a straightforward answer and
discussion followed.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Can you give an explanation tq the Oommittee why you
made an exception of the receipt of these ninety-seven hogs ? and have not kept any
record of them in your books ?

A. They were brought there for cold storage and not for institutions.

Q. How did you know that ?
A. I knew it.

Q. But how ?

A. Well, if they were for the institutions I would have been told so,

Q. Have you charge of this cold storage room ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What were you told about them ?

A. That they were to be killed and sent to the cold storage.

Q. And with the knowledge that they had cholera down at the Humber 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that they came from the cholera infected herd ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who told you that ?
A. Mr Hunter.

Q. What else did he tell you?

A. On Saturday evening I was up at Mr. Hunter's place and he told me that he
would send over to the slaughter house for hooks and gammels and sets and such like on
the next day, and said there were some hogs at the Humber to be killed and he wanted
these things for that purpose, and he sent his son over for them on Sunday.

201

61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-S

Q. How did you happen to go to Mr. Hunter's house 1
A. I went up to order hay.

Q. What, on Sunday?

A. No. On Saturday evening, I said.

Q. Is that the way you order hay 1

A. Certainly. I order it at Hunter's place from his son.

Q. Any requisition from the Department to get that hay 1
A. I don't know.

Q. But you do know. Do you go out and order hay at Hunter's place without a,
requisition ?

A. When I want hay.

Q. You do order hay and buy it without .a requisition from the Department?
A. When I want hay I just tell Mr. Hunter.

Q. From whom do you buy the hay ?
A. I don't buy the hay.

Q. Can you give me no explanation, sir, why you didn't keep any record of these,
ninety-seven hogs other than you have given ?

A. I had no orders to do so.

Q. Can you give me no other explanation for making an exception of these ninety-
seven hogs in your bookkeeping ?

A. I have no books in which to keep a record of these hogs. These hogs were
just simply sent there for cold storage.

Q. That is no explanation. Oan you give me no other explanation for making an.
exception of these ninety seven hogs in your bookkeeping f

A. I can give you the ninety-seven hogs and the weights of them, and that's all I
can give.

Q. Answer my question. Can you give no other explanation ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Did you know these hogs were to be sold to Mr. Harris ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you know Mr. Harris had purchased them before you weighed them ?
A. I can't eay I did.

Q. When did Hunter tell you Harris had purchased them ?
A. I think it was on the previous Saturday.

Q So that you had no particular interest in the hogs ?
A. No.

202

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. "What was the object of bringing them to the cold storage, do you know 1

A. There was no other place to put them.

Q. Hadn't Harris a place to put them ?

A. They were not sold yet. Harris had not seen them yet.

Q. Have you any idea how many hogs there were ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that on a slip t

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Will you produce that slip ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you report the weight to the Government at the time 1

A. No, sir.

Q. In what way would the Government know what the weights were then ?

A. Mr. Hunter got the weights from me, sir.

Q. That is all you know about it ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. From whom did he get them ?

A. From me.

Q. What orders did you have with regard to weighing the hogs ?

A. I had to weigh them as there was nobody else there to do it.

Q. Did you do the pencilling of the weights of all these hogs ?

A. I believe I did ?

Q. Will you swear you did ]

A. Yes.

Q. Was it in ink or in pencil ?

A. In pencil.

Q. On what?

A. A slip.

Q. What kind of a slip ?

A. In a chip book.

Q. What is a chip book 1

A. What you use for any writing purposes, just slips that you tear out.

Q. Oh, a chip book, you mean a scribbling book ?

A. Yes.

203

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Have you any date put down on this piece of paper 1
A. I have the 15th, that is the day.

Q. Where did you get that date ?
A. On the day I weighed the pigs.

Q. Have you a,uy date down as to when Dr. Sweetapple inspected the hogs 1
A. No.

-Q. Is that slip in scribbling book now or is it not ?

A. It is on the file. It is a separate slip in connection with a pad.

Q. Is it now in connection with a pad ?
A. No. It's separated from the pad.

Q. Had you any date down to see when Dr. Sweetapple made his inspection 1
A. No, sir.

Q. Dr. Sweetapple says he only made one inspection. Are you prepared to deny
that?

A. Dr. Sweetapple made an inspection —

Q, Answer me. He says he went on Monday afternoon to inspect the hogs and
found 40 hogs there. And when he went back the next morning there were no hogs
there. Are you prepared to swear that's not true ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then you give a straight denial to what Dr. Sweetapple said 1
A. I say that Dr. Sweetapple was there on Monday and eicamined those hogs and
was there on the following evening.

Q. Do you say he examined any hogs on the following evening?
A. Yes, sir.

Q Then you contradict what he says on the matter ?

A. Yes, sir. I am going by what I know to be true as far as my memory goes.

Q. And you did not see him inspect them the second time ?
A. No.

Q. Yet you say he inspected them, although you didn't see him inspect them ?
A. I did not go into the storage.

Q What have you outside of your memory — the bare fact of your memory — -to ;
say that he went back to inspect the second time and made an inspection ?

A. Well, I saw him.

Q. Now that's your memory. Have you nothing in writing to show that ?
A. Nothing at all.

Q. You are depending entirely upon your memory
A. Certainly ; just the same as your memory.

204

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. .1. i 1897-8

Q. Did you have any talk with Hunter about this 1
A. Yes, we talked it over.

Q. Lately?
A. No.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that you looked at all of those 97 hogs close enough
to be prepared to swear that there was not a spot on either one of them ?

A. Yes, sir. There was none.

Q. Have you much experience of hog cholera ?

A. I never had any examination of hogs with cholera.

Q. Was this the first batch of hog cholera pigs that ever came into the Central
Prison storage?

A. Yes, sir, to my knowledge it was.

Q. And you have been there 18 years ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Had you any suspicions with regard to any hogs that were received
A. I did not see anything to cause suspicion.

Q. Did Mr. Hunter tell you anything 1

A. He told me there was cholera there on Saturday afternoon.

Q. And still you had no suspicion that anything might be wrong with any hogs that
might be received ?

A. I could not see anything that would cause suspicion.

Q. Therefore you did not inspect them as a man would who might have su picions ?
A. I-

Q. Answer that. And you can add anything ycu like after.
A. I beg pardon.

Q. You did not examine these hogs as a man would who might have suspicions ?

A. I inspected the hogs with Dr. Sweetapple and I saw just as much about the
hogs as Dr. Sweetapple.

Q. Will you answer my question ?

A. Do you mean did I go into the room and inspect them myself ?

Q. You did not inspect them with the suspicion of their having anything wrong
•with them ?

A. No. I did not. I did not consider it necessary to.

Q. What inspection did Dr. Sweetapple make ?

A. He examined them very carefully and said he could not see anything wrong with
he hogs.
t

205

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did he tarn over every hog 1

A. Yes. He did, and said he would examine them carefully.

Q. Did Harris act as if he knew there was anything wrong with the hogs?
A. Not at all.

Q. Did he know there was anything wrong with the hogs 1
A. Not that I know of.

Q. Did you tell him that there was ?
A. No.

Q. Did you say anything to him as to there being cholera in the herd 1
A. No.

'
Q. Not a word 1

A. No.

Q. Any conversation going on while they were being delivered to Harris ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Harris is wrong when he says he took away the first delivery of hogs on Tues-
day morning?

A. That's wrong.

• Q. Have you any record of that 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then you are contradicting definite evidence by your memory without any dates
to govern you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was McKinnon present when the inspection was being made by Dr. Sweetapple t
A. I don't know but that he was in the ice house, but he might have been.

Q. You do not know in what condition the meat would be of a hog that was killed
that had cholera 1

A. I never killed one that had cholera.

Q. Then you have no experience at all of hog cholera meat 1
A. Not as far as I understand.

Q. You have had no practical experience of hog cholera meat, none whatever ?
A. No.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS :—

Q. Did you handle all the hogs into the Harris wagons 1
A. I would not say I handled them all.

Q. Were you there when they were all taken out ?
A. I was. I had some help to do it.

206

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. McKinnon and you were there when they were being taken out 1
A. Yes.

Q. And you are sure, from your memory, that they were all taken out on Wednesday
morning 1

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. So that the only inspection you made with Dr. Sweetapple
-was that of the first batch between eleven and one o'clock on Monday ?

A. Yes.

Q. And that is the only inspection you made 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, having stated that you only inspected this first batch that was there between
eleven and one o'clock on Monday, are you now prepared to swear that every hog was
sound ?

A. Yes, sir.

By Hoc. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. Did you inspect all the hogs yourself?

A. Yes, sir. I saw every hog that came into the place and examined him sufficiently
to answer that they were sound. Dr. Sweetapple and myself only inspected a portion
together on Monday.

Q. You say that Dr. Sweetapple and Mr. Hunter came, into the room on Tuesday
afternoon 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were they there some time 1

A. Yes, sir. About half an hour or so.

Q. Have you any record of how many hogs were delivered on the first day 1
A. No, sir.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Are you prepared to swear that more than half the hogs
•were there between eleven and one o'clock 1

A. I am not.

Q. Are you prepared to swear there were more than twenty-five hogs there at that
time ?

A. What I say so far as I know, and my memory will allow me to tell, there were
^between thirty and forty hogs there.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS: — Q. Mr. Hunter and you inspected the hogs, did you not ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did Mr. Hunter and you inspect the hogs at all together ?
A. Me and Mr. Hunter ? 1 do not know that we did.

<^). You did not, as a matter of fact 1
A. No.

207

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Professor CHARLES H. SWEETAPPLE, recalled :

By Hon. Mr. HARCOURT: — Q. If hogs were placed in an ice room with spots on themt
what effect has the chilling room on these spots 1 Would it remove or obliterate them ?

A. The spots you are alluding to I presume, would be blood spots, extravasations
from disease. The cold would not remove them. Cold will not remove the appearance
of blood spots in the tissues. They would remain indefinitely ; in dead animals, if spots
were there, they would remain and would not disappear.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. It was that kind of cholera known as pneumo-enteritis, was
it not ?

A. No. That's the wrong term, now. We divide the pneumonic conditions from
the enteric condition.

Q. Had these hogs the enteric condition ?
A. They had ; those that I saw.

Q. So that it struck the entrails of the hogs ?
A. Not necessarily.

Q. Well, how could it be enteric and not do so ?
A. It can be.

Q. It was a fatal kind of disease ]

A. Yes. If you wish, I can give an explanation of that.

Q. Now, see, it is reported by Miller and Tullor — you know who they are 1
A. They're not men of any repute at all.

Q. Although he is the chairman of the whole veterinary institutions of the United
States ? I quote from Miller : He says that any form of the disease of hog cholera that
,shows in the hog; makes the meat poisonous for human food. Are you prepared to-
contradict that ?

A. In this way; I don't say that ifc's not, but it has never been proved to be poisonous.

Q. Are you prepared to contradict that statement 1

A. I am prepared to prove what I say, but would not use diseased meat of any kind.
I would condemn it. But will you allow me to explain the condition that you call enteric.
Contagious diseases are produced by germs and the germs of hog cholera produce disease
by two different methods. By accumulating in the blood vessels and causing obstructions,
and extravasations of blood in the tissues. They may produce extensive extravasations
in any of the organs in the acute forms and it is a characteristic that you may have
animals die in a few hours from the disease. Supposing, then, these were to accumulate
in patches in the brain for instance, causing brain trouble, and if in the intestines, caus-
ing intestinal troubles, or in the lungs it would cause lung trouble, and if it goes on to
the more chronic forms the marked conditions are ulcerations of the intestines that may
not be observed externally, and you would have to split the intestines open to see.

Q. How far does the disease develop before you can see any signs of it in the live hog ?

A. Well, that's a very difficult question to answer. How far may smallpox develop
in the human being ?

208

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. I'm not talking about the human being.

A. No. But it's the same thing. It's a question that it is impossible to answer.
You ire a medical man, Dr. Meacham ; is not that question impossible to answer 1

Q. So that you could not have told whether any one of those ninety -seven hogs were
sound unless you opened them and examined them inside 1

A. That was the reason why I made post mortem examinations.

Q. What's a post mortem examination to do with my question 1 Any ordinary
farmer would know that the hog was sick. But why didn't you, in view of what you
have now told me, why didn't you see fit to open and examine an apparently sound hog ?

A. That was not my business. I was instructed to inspect the carcases.
Q. Be here please next week to answer questions.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS :

Q. Do you remember going to the cold storage with Mr. Hunter on one occasion ?
A. Yes. I do.

Q. Do you recollect his picking you up at the cattle market and driving you there ?

A. I recollect going the day before I went with Mr. Hunter. I recollect that
perfectly now. It came to my mind the first thing this morning, as soon as I got up.
The first time I went to the cold storage, I did not know my way and had to inquire the
road, because the road is along the south end of the Central Prison and I didn't know my
way at all. I walked up there from the cars. The next time I went that would corres-
pond with what the last witness was saying, that when I went with Hunter it was the
second time ; I had been there before.

Q What day would that be ?

A. It would be Tuesday I was there with Mr. Hunter, and it must have been Monday
I went alone.

Q. What time of the day on Tuesday was it when you went there ?

A. I can't tell you at all. I think it would be after dinner when I went with Mr.
Hunter. I was there three or four times and was constantly going out to the cattle
market at that time, and generally went over from the market. The first time I went
must have been Monday because when I went with Hunter I had been there before
myself and had had to inquire my way in.

Q. You think Moore's evidence is correct on that point ?
A. I am sure he is correct — quite sure he is correct.

By Mr. ST. JOHN :

Q. Doctor, as you said you made one inspection only ?
A. No. I said I might have made more.

llth January, 1898.
THOMAS WHITEHEAD, recalled :

Examined by Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. You gave evidence that you assisted in the
dressing 1

A. Yes.

28 J. 209

-61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.)

Q, During the whole of the first day 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You have already stated in evidence that the hogs that were dressed had ulcers
and diseased spots over several sections of the body ; is that correct ?

A. Yes, sir

Q. How many would be dressed and sent away on the wagon that had diseased spots
on them ? About how many ?

A. Several of them.

Q. Are you positive of that ?

A, Well, they were hung on the hooks, but I never seen them taken down for the
£re.

Q Evidence has already been taken to the effect that hogs taken off the hooks fo
the fire were only taken off the centre hooks, where Newton was dressing them.

A. That is all.

Q. These hogs were on the side hooks from which they were loaded on the wagon ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are positive as to that ?
A. Positive as to that.

Q. It has been given in evidence here that no hogs had spots on them that were
taken to the Central Prison ; what do you say as to that ?

A. That's what they all say.

Q. What do you mean by that ?
A. I mean to say that there was.

Q. You don't mean to say that everyone that gave evidence, gave evidence that there
was no spots on them '?

A. No, sir.

Q And notwithstanding all the evidence you say to the contrary ? That there was
diseased spots on them 1

A Yes, sir.

Q. Did you hear any conversation between Newton and his brother in regard to the
state of those hogs early in the day 1

A. All that I heard

Mr. GERMAN, objected to the method of examination adopted by Mr. ST. JOHN.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. I will put the question again — did you hear Wm. Newton
say to Fred Newton, not to put that knife in his month — that there was something wrong
with these hogs 1

A. I did.

Q. You heard that conversation ?
A. Yes.

210

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Did you see any hogs during that day being dressed, which, on inspection, were
taken away and burned on the fire, and the dressing not completed ?

A. Yea.

Q. Oan you recollect any instance ?

A. There were some hogs brought out that day and put on the fire, wheeled out to
the fire.

Q Do you remember one that was particularly inspected by Mr. Oster 1
A Yes. There was one there had little sores on his feet.

Q. Do you remember what conversation took place in regard to that hog 1
A. Oster said, " Look, look " when he was scraping the hog.

Q To whom did he say that ?
A. To all that were round about.

Q. Who were there at the time ?
A. Thomas Smith and me.

Q. Was there others ?
A. And Robert.

Q. What was the result of that 1 What happened to the pig after that inspection I
A. That pig was hung on the hooks and dressed. It was afterwards put on the fire.

Q. Did you see any hogs dead around the premises on that first day, Monday ?
A. Yes. One dead hog.

Q. Where was it ?
A. In the pen.

Q What were the conditions of the hogs outside in the yard 1
A. There were some in the swamp that were not able to get out.

Q What do you mean by that 1
A. They were too weak.

Q Do you recollect — have you any recollection as to one large sow and what was
done with that sow during the day, under the direction of Mr. Warner 1

A Warner called Newton from where we were dressing them to go and kill her.

Q. Did you hear the conversation ?
A. Yes.

Q. Describe the pig that was ordered to be killed by Warner during that day out-
side.

A. It wag a big sow. She had, I don't know whether it was two or three, I wouldn't
say which, small pigs with her, and Newton killed her.

Q . What was her condition ?

A. Well, she was weak, dragging her hind quarters behind her.

211

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Warner asked him to kill her, and that was done ?
A. Yes, Newton killed her.

Q. Was Warner there ?

A. Warner went away after telling him to kill her.

Q. Warner says he has no recollection of anything of tbat kind taking place.
A. It was right alongside the pens outside.

.
Q. It took place and you heard it ?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember in what condition the small hogs were outside 1
A. Well, they seemed to be all sickly.

Q. I think you gave evidence that you caught several large hogs during that day
for killing 1

A. Yes.

Q. Did you catch them and hold them alone, or how did you do it ?

A. I went into the pen and caught them, and dragged them out to the alley -way for
them to be killed.

Q. Did you do that yourself, alone, in many instances 1

A. Yes, with lots of them.

Q. Large hogs ?
A. Yes.

Q. Could you do that with a hog that was in good condition ?
A. I couldn't.

Q. These hogs were dressed 1
A. Yes.

Q. And usually in such a weak condition that you could hold them yourself ? And
that you would be unable to do that with a hog that was healthy ?

A. Yes.

»
Q. Have you any doubt as to the condition of those hogs that were dressed and sold

A. They were not like a healthy hog at all, because a healthy hog would jump round
and run around, but they didn't run around very much.

Q. But from several of them having spots on them and the manner in which they
moved around (they were sent to the Central Prison) you would say they were diseased?

A. 1 saw spots on them but as to what those spots were, I don't know about disease.

•

Q. Many others that were dressed and cleaned during that first day, about how
many were there discarded afterwards and thrown on the fire ?

A. There was quite a number of them. The fire was going all day.

212

61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q But I am speaking of those that were stuck and dressed, or attempted to be
dressed. How many of them were disposed of by burning ?
A. I should say there would be several of them.

By Mr. GERMAN : — Q. What is your occupation 1
A. Myself?

Q. Yes.

A. I work at anything at all.

Q. Just a labourer ?

A. Yes. The last place I worked I was with Gilman — drove a team.

Q. And you were employed at this hog killing by Newton, I suppose ?
A. No. Warner came for me.

Q. Warner came for you to assist at the hog killing ?
A. Yes.

Q. And you went out there, and saw that a lot of hogs were diseased, or supposed to
be diseased ?

A. They were supposed to be — yes.

Q. A large number of them ?

A. I heard the week before that a lot of them were diseased.

Q. Did you learn why they were burning them ?
A. Learn why they were burning them ?

Q. Yes.

A. Well, they were spotted and seemed to be in a bad condition and they burned
them.

Q. Those that were in a bad condition were to be burned, and those that were not in
a bad condition, you know, were to be taken to the Central Prison 1

A. Yes. It was supposed so.

Q. Had you any knowledge of what was to be done with them afterwards ?
A. I didn't know where they were going.

Q. But you did know that the diseased ones were to 1)3 burned and those that hadn't
disease were to be taken to the Central Prison ?

A. It seemed like it. That's the way they were doing it.

Q. I suppose you would not set up your opinion against Prof. Swaetapple as to all
the hogs being diseased ?

A. No, I would not,

Q. Nor against Mr. Warner's, perhaps 1
A. Only what I seen.

213

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Mr. Warner says that the hogs that went to the Central Prison did not show
evidences of disease. Now are you prepared to contradict that from your kno^ ledge of
disease 1

A. Wei], I can fairly say that there was not a hog in that pen in a healthy condition.

Q. That is your opinion 1

A. It is my opinion from hogs that I have seen healthy.

Q. Yes. And I suppose there was more or less talk among you men who were
working there as to what was the matter with the hogs, and why they were being burned f

A. No.

Q. None at all, no conversation amongst you as to this lot of fine hogs being burned 1
A. All that we might say was, " It's too bad that this hog is being burned. "

Q. It would be surprising to my mind if there was not some conversation in that
line. And you did have a conversation that it was too bad that nice hogs had to be
burned up 1

A. Yes.

Q. No conversation amongst you that perhaps some of them that were being burned
might be saved from the fire 1

A. I didn't hear anything of that.

Q. After the hog killing was over, I suppose that ended your connection with it ?
A. Yes. It ended my connection with it.

Q. You thought no more about it ?
A. I didn't think any more about it ?

Q. And you did not talk any more about it ?
A. I did not talk any more about it.

Q. When did anyone first have any conversation with you about these pigs 1
A. I think Warner came up to where I was working.

Q. When was that ?

A. He came up a Tuesday. I think about two weeks ago.

Q. And was that the first you had talked with anybody about the hogs ?
A. Yes.

Q. Since they were killed ?
A. Yes, since they were killed.

Q. And what did he want 1

A. He wanted me to come down. He said that they were kick ing over them, or
something like that.

Q. And did you see Mr. St, John about it ?

A. No. I did not see Mr. St. John — at that time.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. When did you see him ?

A. I saw him here about a week ago.

Q. Was that the first time you saw him ?
A. The first time I saw him.

Q. Then you had no conversation with any person about it except Mr. Warner and
Mr. St. John, and you eave your statement to Mr. St. John, I suppose 1

A. Yes.

Q. In writing?
A. Yes.

Q. And you signed it ?
A. I didn't sign it.

Q. But he took down your statement in writing 1
A. Yes.

Q. How many were there of you at the hog killing 1
A. How many of us ?

Q. Yes.

A. There was Fred Newton, the other gentleman that was with Newton, that wa»
three, me, Tom Smith, Bob Oster, Mr. Oster, Mr. Warner.

Q. How many is that altogether ?
A. I don't know, six or seven.

Q. What was your job ? What were you doing there ?
A. Oh7 scraping and helping to catch them.

Q. Fred. Newton did the killing and you helped catch and scrape, you and Dunn
and Smith 1

A. Sometimes I helped put them in the wagon.

Q. Yes, and you saw hogs taken from the scraping board and put on the fire ?
A. Yes.

Q. Many of them 1

A. Yes. There was some of them.

Q. Warner was there most of the time inspecting the hogs ?
A. Yes. He was there.

Q. And Warner would direct you to put them on the fire 1
A. Yes

Q. Warner would direct the taking from the scraping board and putting them on
the fire ?

A. Yes. And some were taken cff the hooks.

215

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Who directed the taking off the hooks ?
A. Mr. Warner.

Q. What did Mr. Warner say when he came there, when he would see these hogs
on the scraping board or on the hooks 1

A, I can hardly tell you. It was so long ago that I can't remember.

Q. It was so long ago ?

A. Of course, I was a little bit lazier than the others and therefore I took more
chasing around.

Q. I see. Arid they had you running after the pigs 1
A. Yes. It took a lazy man to catch them pigs.

Q. They thought that they would stir you up some by putting you on the run ?
A. Yes. But I didn't have to run very fast.

Q. You were too lazy to scrape, and so they tried to make you run ?
A. Yes.

Q. And tried to run you in the swamp, did they ?
A. Yes.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Notwithstanding then, what anybody would say, you, being
present, assisting in the killing of the hogs and holding them and dressing them, you
say they were diseased ?

A. I do.

Q. How many days were you there 1
A. One day.

Q. Only one day ?

A. That's all. I was there one day.

Q You are sure of that now ?
A. Yes, perfectly sure.

Q. And were you paid for more than one day 1
A. Only one day.

Q. You are sure about that ?
A. I am sure about that.

Q. How many hours were you paid for ?
A. I was paid for about ten hours.

Q. And you received about

A. $1.

Q. How many hours did you see on Warner's book ?

A. Twenty hours, and I told him I didn't remember how I was twenty hours there.

216

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. You say you saw Warner two weeks ago, if I remember
rightly ; what did you say to him about the condition of the hogs at that time ?

A. He asked me if I would be scared to eat one 1 I said I didn't know. It was a
shame to see some of them put on the fire.

Q. What did you mean by that ?
A. Well, some of the big hogs.

Q. What do you mean by saying it was a shame to see them put on the fire 1
A. Because there were blood spots on them, and looked bad.

Q. And you were sorry to see them put on the fire because they were bad 1
A. Yes. Because they were that way.

Q. Is that what you mean ?
A. That's what I mean.

Q. That is a most extraordinary statement. The hogs were so badly diseased that
you were sorry to see them burned.

A. I was sorry to see them burned, but I wouldn't like to eat them.

Q.' You told Warner you wouldn't like to eat any of those hogs ?

A. I told him that I wouldn't. That I might have eat worse, that I didn't know
anything about, but I wouldn't like to eat them.

Q. You told him about two weeks ago, when you were talking about the quality of
the hogs, that you wouldn't like to eat them 1

A. That's what I told him. He asked me if I would like to eat them, and I said
I wouldn't like to eat them.

Q. Did you tell Mr. Noxon at any time that they were all right 1 Now, think
cirefully.

A. Well, they may have have been all right, I suppose, for some people.

Q. But did you tell Mr. Noxon — You seem to take this rather lightly — did you tell
Mr. Noxon at any time after the killing, that these hogs that went to the Central
Prison were all right 1

A. Yes. It's likely I did say they were all right.

Q. You did say that ?

A. They might have been all right, as I say, for some people.

Q. Did you tell him that ? — that they might be for some people, or did you tell
him that they were all right 1

A. I told him they were all right.

Q. What did you tell him as to everything that went to the Central Prison, that
they were all right in your opinion 1

A. Yes. Some of them might have been all right.

Q. Now, did you tell him they were or were not, that's all we want to know.
A. No. I don't recollect saying anything about that.

217

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8-

Q. But you did tell him, you say, that they were all right 1
A. Yea. /. told him that.

Q. And you didn't tell him they were not all right ?

A. Some of them were all right. I told him some of them were not all right.

Q. First you told him they were all right and then you told him some were right
and some were not right, and you told me just a moment ago that you had no recollection.
About it?

A. That's what I told him, I expect, if I told him anything, because they were not
all right.

Q. Did you hear Newton's evidence taken here before the Committee ?
A. Yes. I did.

Q. Have you any recollection of making any statement to any parties in the room
aa to the character of that evidence ?

A. Yes, about the chunks being cut out of them. I didn't see any chunks cut out,»
only of one pig.

Q. You said you didn't agree with Newton's evidence on that point 1
A. No. On that point, I didn't. It might have occurred.

Q. I am asking you what you said 1
A. I said 1 didn't see any only one.

Q. Did you say in this room to the party beside you that Newton was lying when he-
gave that evidence ? Now, think carefully.

A. He was, to my knowledge.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Do you know what you were answering just now ?
A. I say there was one hog cut out.

Q. Do you mean to say that Fred Newton was lying when he told his evidence here 1
A. Well, 1 didn't see these chunks cut out of these hogs at all.

Q. How could you see them cut out on the second day. You were not there.
A. That is on the first day.

Q. Did you state that Fred Newton was lying 1
A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. Did you say you saw meat cut out of one hog 1
A. Yes, I did.

Q. Where?

A. Out of the ham.

Q. What was done with that hog ?

A. He was put on the hooks and shipped away.

218

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

. *• •" — . — — .

Q. You have stated that you were sorry to see large hogs burned 1
A. Yes.

Q. Did you state at any time that there were no bad hogs shipped away ]
A. Yes. There were bad hogs shipped away 1

Q. But you don't understand my question. Did you ever say there was nothing but
sound hogs shipped away 1

A. No.

Q. You never did 1 What did you say to Warner, when Warner asked you about
the hogs ?

A. All as I told him was I wouldn't like to eat them.

Q. You told him you wouldn't like to eat them ?
A. I told him I wouldn't like to eat them.

The CHAIRMAN : — Do you realize that you are contradicting yourself on oath every
few minutes ] You must be careful how you give evidence.

By Mr. GERMAN : — Q. Did you ever give evidence on oath before in a court ?
A. Yes.

Q And you appreciate that you are under oath here the same as in a court ?
A. Yes.

Q. You give your evidence in a peculiar way then. You told the Provincial Secre-
tary here that you had a conversation with Mr. Warner and Mr. Noxon. You know
these gentlemen ?

A, Yes, I know Mr. Warner.

Q. And you had a conversation with them about these pigs ?
A. Yes.

Q. Now, do you know that you told Mr. Noxon in Warner's presence that the hogs
that were sent to the Central Prison were all right ?

A. Yes. They were supposed to be all right because they went to the cold storage

Q Yes. And you say you told that to Mr. Noxon in Mr. Warner's presence ?
A. Yes.

Q. And that was true, wasn't it 1

A. Well, it didn't seem very true although some of them were shipped away.

Q. And you also told Mr. Noxon — this is no laughing matter, you know ; it is
rather serious ; don't take it so lightly, and in the peculiar manner you do. You want
us to believe what you are saying, don't you ?

A. Well, certainly.

Q. Then give your evidence in a manner that would impress us with its truthfulness.
You also told Mr. Noxon, in Mr. Warner's presence that the diseased hogs were all burned1?

A. Yes. That the diseased hogs were all burned.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Did you ever assist in killing hogs before that that were fed on slops from public
institutions ?

A. Yea.

Q. How long before j,

A. I worked for Oilman for about three years.

Q. Who is Oilman ?

A. He keeps quite a few hogs out at the Humber.

By Mr. McPHBRSON :— Q. While you were there who had special direction of the
selestion of the good hogs from the bad ones, or the diseased ones from the healthy ones
while being dressed, and in putting them on the hooks during the dressing ? Who had
special charge outside of Warner ?

A, I can't say.

Q. As far as you know.
A. I can't say that.

By Mr. KERNS : — Q. You say you only saw pieces cut out of one pig 1
A. That was all.

Q. Was that pig sent to the Central Prison ?

A. It was. It was hung on the hook, and I never saw it put on the fire ?

Q. There might have been pieces cut out of other piga that you didn't see 1
A. There might have been,

Q. By Mr. OONMBE :— Q. Where were the pieces cut out ?
A. Out of the hind part of the pig, the ham part.

By Mr. GERMAN :— Q. You said you didn't know whether it went to the Central
Prison or not ?

A. It was hung on the hook there ?

Q. And that is the last knowledge you had of it ? You are not prepared to swear
it went to the Central Prison 1
A. No.

NEIL McKiNNON, sworn. —

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. You were assistant butcher at the Central Prison in
July, 1896?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long were you engaged there before that 1
A, Before that ?

Q Yes, before that.

A. I think I started in May.

Q. And whom did you help and assist in the butchering ?
A. Mr. Moore.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Mr. Moore, who gave evidence here the other day 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. When you slaughtered your animals, where did you put them 1
A. In the cold storage.

Q. Where is that cold storage room ?
A. Connected with the slaughter house.

Q. At the rear of the Central Prison 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How is it constructed ?

A. Which, the cold storage room ]

Q. In the way of getting stuff in, how is it constructed ; is it a building by itself ?
A. It's a long brick building.

Q. High or low ?

A. About a story and a half, maybe two stories high.

Q. Is it so constructed that you could keep the heat out pretty well ?

A. Yes, sir.

•
Q. Describe how it's constructed, so as to keep the heit oat.

A. Wei), there are double doors on it leading from the outside and from the
slaughter house.

Q. There are double doors leading from the slaughter house ? What did you say
the other doors were leading from ?

A. One from the slaughter house and one from the outside.

Q. There are double doors from the slaughter house to the cold storage room, and
then another from outside ?

A. Yes, leading from outside.

Q. Is that the only opening in the building 1
A. There is a window.

Q. How many windows 1
A. Only one.

Q. Is it large or small ?
A. Medium size.

Q. Single glass or double 1
. I wouldn't be sure but that it's triple.

Q. Only one small window and the double doors ?
A. Yes.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. How long is the building ?
A. I don't know how long.

Q. About how long ?
A. It might be 75 feet.

Q. And capable of storing a great deal of meat ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q So that the only opening in the brick building throughout is the main doDr and
one small window 1

A. Yes.

Q. Ts the window near the door ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Away from the door ? What end is the window on ?
A. On the south side.

Q. Is that opposite the door ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then it would be very difficult for heat to get in there ?
A. I think it would.

Q. It would be difficult for light to get in there as well ?

A. Yes.

Q This cold storage is prepared not for light at all, but to keep out the heat 1

A. There has got to be a certain amount of light get in. When you are weighing
out the stuff you have to get in light, and it's the only way we could get in light, and
there is no shutters or anything of that kind on that window because they are always
thrown open when we are weighing.

Q. So that there is only sufficient light there to enable any person to see to weigh
meat?

A. That's all. It makes it quite light when all the shutters are open.

Q. There is one passage there between the window and the door 1
A. Yes.

Q. So that in the centre of the building there would be more light ?
A. No. I think there would be more light against the window.

Q. What is the light in the other parts of the building ?

A When the shutters are thrown open it is quite light anywhere. When we are
not in there at work the shutters are kept closed.

Q Where were those hogs hanging ?
A. Towards the south end.

Q. How far from the window ?

A, Not very far from the window, a majority of them.

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. All hanging up ?
A Yes.

Q Would there be easy facilities as far as light is concerned for making a thorough
inspection of those hogs in that dark room ?

A. I think there would.

Q. Did you see any inspection take place over all these hogs ?
A. I saw the inspector there.

Q Did you see Inspector Sweetapple there ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. When did you see him there ?
A. On Monday, if I remember right.

Q He says he was there, or Mr. Hunter says he was there, sometime between 11
and 1 o'clock on Monday. Would that be right ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who was with him at the time ?
A. Mr. Moore.

Q. Were you in the room at the time ?
A. T was there for a short time,

Q. Did you hear any conversation ?

A. I didn't pay any particular attention to the matter.

Q. Did you hear Dr. Sweetapple make any remarks ?
A. Not particularly.

Q. What was it ?

A. That he didn't see anything wrong with them. Something of that kind.

Q. How long was he making the inspection there 1

A. I can't say. Probably twenty minutes or half an hour from the time I saw
him there ; he was there when I went in.

Q. Did he take down any hogs ?
A. Not that I know of.

Q. What did you see him doing ?
A. He was turning the hogs over.

Q. Had you any suspicions that there was anything wrong with the pork that was
going in there ?

A. No. None whatever.

Q. Not having any suspicion, have you any recollection as to whether there was
any spots on that pork ?

A. I think there was a few spots on some of them ; not very many.

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61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Q. Have you a distinct recollection 1

A. I can't say I have a distinct recollection, but I am inclined to think there
were a few.

Q. As a matter of fact, there were some bad spots on them ?
A. I wouldn't swear positively.

Q. Why then did you say that you were inclined to think there were spots that you
noticed on these, although you had no suspicions 1

A. While I was taking them off the wagon I saw spots on them.

Q. As a matter of fact, your impression is that when you assisted to take them off
the wagon that you did see spots on them ?

A. On two of them.

Q. Did you see any meat cut out of any of these hogs 1

A. There was a couple of them that I thought a little large opened about the throat
here. That was all I noticed.

Q. What do you mean, that meat was taken out of the region of the throat, did it
so appear to you 1

A. I can't say that it was really that. It occurred to me at the time.

Q. When did this occur to you ?

A. It never occurred to me, but it seemed to me from my experience of butchering
hogs.

Q. You have butchered hogs 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You do remember seeing a couple of hogs that appeared to have an opening which?
appeared to be larger than usual?

A. Yes.

By Mr. GBRMAN : — Q. You say you have a recollection that you saw a few spots on
some of the hogs 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You would not, I suppose, cfr would you say those were spots caused by disease

A. No. I would not.

Q. Warner has said that these hogs were common hogs, black and white hogs ; do
you know as a matter of fact, that hogs with black spots on them that are badly cleaned
will show purplish spots on the flesh after they are dressed ?

A. Well, no, I can't say I could from my experience of butchering.

Q. That is Warner's evidence. Now you say you had no idea in your mind that
the hogs were diseased ?

A. I had not ; I knew nothing whatever of it.

Q. When after that did you first get any knowledge that there was any suspicion oi
disease 1

A. My first real knowledge after that was when Newton came to me.

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€1 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Which Newton?
A. Fred Newton.

Q. And he came to you, did he ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Whereabouts?
A. To my house.

Q. When was that ?

A. Along about the first of September, as near as I can remember ; it was exhibition
time.

Q. Of last year ?
A. Yes.

Q. And what did Newton say ?

A. The first of it was I had been looking round to get a horse, and I had seen him
a day previous and told him I would take a friend of mine up and see a horse he had. I
told him I thought the horse was blemished, and he said he didn't think it was. Neither
of us claimed to know very much about a horse. I did so, and he came right down that
night, drove down with the horse to try it, and then he asked after we had started driv-
ing round in the buggy, if I hadn't worked at the Central Prison. I said I had done so,
but was not working there then.

Q. What then ?

A. Then he went on with quite a string about Hunter. He seemed to consider
that Hunter didn't pay him right for killing the hogs.

Q. What further did he say about the hogs ?

A. He asked me if I knew they were diseased. I told him 1 didn't know they were
diseased at the time, till I heard a little whimper afterwards about it. He said well,
they were all diseased, everyone of them was diseased. I said that's really more than I
can say, because I didn't really know it of my own knowledge.

Q. What did he say, if anything, about making the Government or somebody else
settle ?

A. He spoke to me about making Hunter settle at that time.

Q. He spoke about making Hunter settle ?
A. Yes.

Q. In what way was he to go about it 1

A. He spoke first of taking civil action about it in the court.

Q. Then in case of failure in that, what other procedure did he suggest )

A. Well, he suggested then, if he could not get a civil action, he thought he would
take a criminal action against him.

Q. But he didn't do that ?
A. It appears not.

29 J. 225

Cl Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What other procedure was there open to bim 1
A. I do not know. He didn't say to me.

Q. Newton said here there was some talk about there being something in it for him.
A. Not between him and I.

Q. But he has already stated that there was to be something in it for him by going
to Bradford.

A. Well, when he spoke to me about it, he asked me who to go to, and who would
be a likely man to look after it for him, and who would not lead him into a trap. I told
him he had better be careful, or it might rest on his own shoulders.

Q. And did you know, as a matter of fact, that Newton was going to several persons,
to make political capital out of this affair to get statements 1

A. I did not know it at that time. I have heard since that he did.

Q. But Newton's principal complaint at that time was that he had not been properly
used, and was going to insist upon settlement from some one ?

A. Yes, of course. The main one appeared to be Mr. Hunter.

Q. Did he say anything to you about going to St. John 1
A. He did not.

Q. Mr. Bradford was the man spoken of between you and him ?
A. Yes.

Q. Now these openings that you have spoken of as being in the throat of a coupler
of these hogs, was there anything about it that created any suspicion in your mind that
anything was wrong with the hogs.

A. Not in the least.

Q. Hogs that were laid in the wagon in the state they were with the flesh warm,
and drawn from the piggery where they were slaughtered down to the Central Prison,
would there be a chance or would it be likely that they would show any evidence of
bruises on the soft meat from being pitched into the wagon 1 Would that be likely to
cause a bruise, or by laying against the boards of the wagon ?

A. I can't say as to that.

Q. Would you be surprised if a hog unloaded at the Central Prison, being brought
down all that distance in that condition — would you be surprised if it did not show
evidences of spots ?

A. No. T don't know that T would.

Q. Wouldn't it be rather likely to cause bruises and to show evidence of the con-
nection with the wood 1

A. Oh, yes, I suppose it would, rubbing against it that way,

Q. Would there be any blood that would make this mark or would cause a mark
or spot ?

A. Well, from my experience I thought at the time it was from the water being too
hot, from overheated water.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Mr. MATHESON. — Q. How many hogs do you think there were there when DIY
Sweetapple came ?

A. I would judge there would be 30, probably.

Q. Were they all in one row ?

A. Yes, on one row, hung right round on the hooks.

Q. Would there be one behind the other at all 1

A. No. There were two rows of iron rods round the building, and they were strung
on the inside row, so as not to interfere with any other meats f hat they would have in
the institution, and to save having to push them around, in order to put in what we

killed on those days when the hogs were there.

Q. There would be a passage from the door to the window ?

A. There was no particular passage between the door and the window through the
centre of the building.

Q. Was there no meat in between them and the centre of the building ?
A. No.

Q. How long were you in the building with Dr. Sweetapple, as far as you can
recollect ?

A. Well, I can't say. I wasn't there very long. I was just merely in there with a
prisoner to do some cleaning up. I had charge of a prisoner and was just in there that way.

Q. Was he there when you arrived 1

A. To the best of my knowledge, he was in the room when I went in.

Q. Was he there 20 minutes ?

A. I would judge he was there 20 minutes to a half an hour from the time I saw
him up to the time he went away.

Q, How many hogs did you see him turn over ?
A. I can't say.

Q. One or two?

A. Oh, yes. He turned over a good deal more than that in that time. He might
have turned over a dozen in the time I was there. I did not stay in there very long.
It's not a desirable place to be in any length of time.

Q. Were you there when he arrived the second time ?

A. I have a very faint recollection of seeing him and Mr. Hunter drive up the
second time.

Q. That would be in the evening, would it ?

A. As near as I can remember and from what 1 remember it was on Tuesday after-
noon, but I would not say what time it was in the afternoon or in the evening. I just
remember seeing Mr. Hunter drive up, because I had a prisoner out. In fact, I saw him,
through the window in the stable, but was not in the building at that time.

Q. You would not swear positively that he was there ?
A. No, I would not.

227

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You told me in a former conversation that yon ^ad no recollection of seeing him
there more than on one day.

A. I have no distinct recollection.

Q. Who is Mr. Bradford that has been mentioned, is he yonr solicitor 1
A. Y«s.

Q. Did I understand yoi to say that Newton consulted you as to whether any action
•should be taken against Mr. Hunter 1

A. I took no interest in the action other than to advise Newton to go and see Mr.
Bradford.

Q You didn't go to see Mr. Bradford?

A. T spoke to Mr. Bradford on the street, and told him I would send this party,
and that he might expect him to call on him.

Q. You made an appointment with him, didn't you 1

A. I did, some time after that. I told them that he would be down there at such
* date.

Q. And you were down there at the time Newton was there 1
A, I was there.

Q. Newton was not taking an aggressive part against Hunter ?
A. He was.

Q. Although he didn't go to see Mr. Bradford ?
A. He did.

Q. After you had mentioned it to Bradford two or three times ?
A. I don't know that I went to see Bradford two or three times.

Q. Have you any doubt that there were spots, as you have said, on the hogs 1
A. On a few of them.

Q. No doubt, although you made no inspection, you say that two hogs had wider
openings at the throat than were natural ? It appeared to you so ?

A. It appeared to me so.

Q. Newton says at least 1 3 of these hogs that were shipped had pieces cut out of
their throats and slices along the flanks ; would you be prepared to deny it 1

A. I didn't see that quantity.

Q. Might there not be that number there ?
A. There might be.

Q You were not making an inspection 1
A. No. I wag not.

Q. You had no suspicion that there was anything wrong with them
A. No.

228

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. Were you there at the Central Prison on both days that
these were unloaded 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you help unload 1
A. I did.

Q. Do you remember when the last load came in ?

A. To the best of my recollection it would be about 7 o'clock.

Q. Each day 1
A. Both days.

Q. But the last day ?

A. About the same time on Tuesday night.

Q. Where were they put, the last load 1

A. In the slaughter house, not in the cold storage.

Q. Why were they put in there 1 Have you any idea ?

A. I think Mr. Moore said they were to be seen by some party in the morning^
something to that effect.

Q. Do you remember how many there were in that load ?

A. There might have been half a dozen, and might not have been more than six.

Q. From 4 to 6 ?

A. To the best of my knowledge.

.
Q. They were put in the slaughter house and kept separate 1

A. Yes.

Q. You say there was quite sufficient light in the cold storage to give anyone an
opportunity to see the hogs ?

A. Oh, yes, quite sufficient.
•

CHARLES MOORE, re-called : —

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Show me your log book.
Witness handed a paper to Mr. St. John.

Q. Show me your other papers.
A. I have no other papers.

Q. Do you mean to tell me that that's your book containing the weight of all these
hogs, a piece of paper with this on it "July 15th, 1896, Harris, 96 hogs, 8,642 lbs.»
0. M. B." Is that all you can produce 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What have you got to say, in the face of your evidence yesterday, that you were
going to produce the weight of the hogs ?

A. I said I can produce the weight of those hogs.

229

«61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You weighed those hogs ?

A. Yes, Mr. Harris took the weights away and I kept that paper.

Q. Do you mean to say that you have no record of these weights in any form 1
A. That's all I have.

Q. You told me you had the weights of those hogs on what you called a chip book 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And it was written in lead pencil ?
A. Yes, sir. .

Q. You did all the weighing ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And all the figuring ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you have kept no check on this 1

A. No, sir. I have no check kept on that. I have no books to show it. These
pigs just came there to cold storage.

Q. Is that the way you consider you were doing your whole duty for this Govern-
ment and to keep the record of meats going into the Central Prison 1

A. That meat was a special lot.

Q. How did you know they were a special lot ?
A. They were to be taken away by Harris.

Q. By Harris, and quick 1
A. I didn't say quick.

Q. And this is the only record you have got 1
A. Yes, sir.

(^. What are these initials for ?
A. C. Moore, Butcher.

Q. These three large letters, I mean ?
A. Well, C. Moore, Butcher.

Q. And that is the only record on earth that you have about those hogs, except
what's in your memory 1

A. That's the only one.

By Col. MATHESON : — Q. Who did you give this record to 1
A. Myself.

Q. Did you not hand the record of the weights to somebody to charge Harris with
the money 1

A. I weighed the hogs, totaled them up and Mr. Harris took the chip away, and I
kept this.

230

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What did you do next. Who did you give the weights to ?
A. I put it on a file, and a day or two after Mr. Hunter came round and took the
weights off it.

Q. And charged it to Harris 1
A. I suppose so.

Q. Did you point it out to him 1
A. Yes.

Q. Have you at any time previous to that received fat pigs from the piggery, dead
hogs?

A. Previous to that ?

Q. Yes. At the Central Prison.

A. Nothing in connection with this.

Q. I don't mean that, but at any time since the Humber piggery was established
have you received any at all ? Where did you keep a memorandum of them ?

A. In my book.

Q. How did you know these were a special lot ?
A. I knew they were coming over for Harris.

Q. Who told you?
A. Mr. Hunter.

Q. When?

A. Saturday evening.

Q. And you considered you were doing your duty to the Province as a Government
official just to make a slip in pencil like that, put it on a file and not enter it in any
book?

A. Yes. I have no book for that occasion.

Q. You keep an official return of the hogs brought in there and sold to the public
institutions ?

A. I keep a book there for every institution. What meat I send out to any insti-
tution I have a book there for. Anything that comes there, I weigh and make a note of
it in the book.

Q. You keep a memorandum of cattle brought in and sold or sent to the different
institutions 1

A. Yes, air.

Q. Why were not these hogs sent to these institutions ?

A. They were not sent there for that purpose.

Q. How do you mean ?

A. They were just sent there for cold storage, while they were killing.

231

51 Victoria. Appendix (No. ].) 1897-8

Q. What was done with the pigs formerly sent from the piggery 1

A. Any hog that I got from there, I kept them for the Asylum or any institution
that wanted a pig.

Q. Why were not these sent to any of the Asylums ?

A. They were not ordered for them, not killed for the Asylums.

Q. Does it not strike you as something strange that they should all be killed
together in July 2

A. No, sir.

Q. Did it strike you as being strange ?
A. No, sir.

Q. And you think you are telling the truth in making the statement in this way ?

A. I am telling the truth as far as 1 know the truth. I didn't come here tell a lie
either to you or to anybody else.

Q. Were you in there with Dr. Sweetapple 1
A. I was.

Q. How long was he there 1
A. About half an hour.

Q. When did he go into the building; what hour?
A. Between 11 and 1 o'clock.

Q. How many hogs were there at that time ?
A. Thirty or forty.

Q. How many did he turn over ?

A. He turned over all as far as I know.

Q? Did he turn more than one over ?
A. Yes.

Q. Now, I ask you again on your oath, did he ?
A. Yes.

Q. Did he turn them all over ?

A. Yes. He turned them all over.

Q. You said just now that as far as you know he turned them all over, and now-
you swear positively to it?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you go round with him 1
A. I did.

Q. How did you know he turned them all over ?
A. I helped him turn them all over.

232

61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1 ) 1897-8

; =

Q. I have been told, Moore, that Dr. Sweetapple turned one over and no more.
A. I don't care what you have been told. — I am here to tell the truth, and I will tell
the truth.

Q. You need not protest so much that you are telling the truth. We'll judge that
for ourselves. What did he say to you ?

A. That he came to examine these hogs and that he must examine them carefully,
and he examined them as carefully as any man could do.

Q. What words did he use after he had looked at them ?
A. That he couldn't see anything wrong with the hogs.

Q. Did he pull them open 1

A. He did. He pulled the bellies over and looked over the hogs thoroughly.

Q. And you think you were doing your duty as an official of this province to take
that memorandum, and just keep it on that slip for two years 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I think the sooner you are sent about your business the better.
A. All right) sir.

Q. By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. What experience have you had with cholera hogs 1
A. 1 never killed any of them.

Q. You have had no experience with cholera hogs ?
A. No.

Q. How long have you been a butcher 1
A. Thirty years.

Q. Did Dr. Sweetapple have any discussion with you on that inspection aa to what
ought to appear on the hogs that were diseased ?

A. He merely said to me that he could see nothing wrong with these hogs in any
way.

Q. He didn't discuss with you what might appear t>n hogs that were diseased 1
A. No.

Q. You did not ask him what signs there would be on any hogs that had cholera ?
A. No, sir.

Q. You just walked around, a dummy ?

A. I just walked around with Dr. Sweetapple and helped him to examine theie h >gi
and opened them out when he told me.

Q. Were they open towards you as you went around ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. The backs of the hogs were near the wall ?

A. The backs were to the wall and the fronts were to the centre.

233

:1 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. How near the wall were the backs of the hogs 1
A. Pretty well in the centre of the floor.

Q. So that you could go on both sides of the hogs 1

A. Easily. There would be eight feet between them and the wall.

Q. You went there with Dr. Sweetapple and you heard what Mr. McKinnon said Dr.
Sweetapple said to you : is that correct ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you any record as to that inspection ?
A. No. I didn't make any.

Q. Did you say anything further ? Were you present at the second inspection ?

A. I was present when Mr. Hunter and Dr. Sweetapple came in, but didn't go into
the cooler with them.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that it was on the 14th 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. On what basis ?

A. I swear as far as I can remember.

Q. That's all ?
A. Yes.

Q You won't swear positively ?
JL. Yes, I will.

Q. Then tell me how do you know it was that particular day?
A I am sure of that.

Q. You have no record of that ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Why are you sure of it ? *
A. I am positive, sure 1

Q. Well, how ?

A. There was only two days killing, Monday and Tuesday, and Dr. Sweetapple came
there on Monday, and Mr. Hunter and Sweetappple came there the next evening 1

Q. I see ; they could not have come on Wednesday ?
A. No, sir.

Q. That would be impossible ?

A. Hunter came there on Wednesday morning.

Q. Dr. Sweetapple swore that he was there once and when he went back to make an
inspection the hogs were gone ; are you prepared to swear as to that ?

A. I don't remember that.

234

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Dr. Sweetapple was not there at all again after he made the second inspection ?
A. I would not say that.

Q. Was Dr. Sweetapple there after he was there with Mr. Hunter ?
A. I didn't see him.

Q. You have no memory on that ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Dr. Sweetapple swore that he went there to inspect hogs and found that they
were not there ; what do you say to that ?

A. He might have been there, and he might not have been.

Q, Your memory only carries you back to the fact because Mr. Hunter says he was
there 1 So that you depend wholly on your memory ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Why can't you tell me whether Dr. Sweetapple was there the third time or not 1
A. I do not remember seeing him.

Q. Do you remember seeing him twice 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are you prepared to swear on the second time he went there, as he stated, to
inspect the hogs that they were gone ?

A. The second time ?

Q. Yes.
A. No, sir.

Q. You are not prepared to that ?

A. I am prepared to swear to that inspection for Monday and Tuesday.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that the second time when you saw him there was not
after the hogs were all gone ?

A. No.

Q. If Dr. Sweetapple was only there twice, and on the second time he went there he
saw no hogs, it must have been on Tuesday 1

A. I can only recollect seeing him twice.

Q. If he was only there twice, as he has already sworn to, and that one of the times
he went there to inspect hogs they were all gone, then it must have been on Wednesday
or later 1

A. Yes.

By Mr. GERMAN : — Q. You say you have no recollection of seeing Dr. Sweetapple on
Wednesday 1 Or do you have any recollection that you did not see him on Wednesday 1
A. I don't remember seeing Mr. Sweetapple on Wednesday ?

Q. If he was there you did not see him ; it is quite possible out of your recollection
A. Yes, sir.

235

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8
— .. — .

Q. Your recollection is clear and certain that he was there on Monday and inspected
the hogs ?

Q. And on Tuesday with Mr. Hunter ?
A. Yes.

Q. And you helped him to inspect ?
A. I did on Monday.

Q. When were the hogs taken away finally 1
. A. On Wednesday, the 15th.

Q. What time of day ?

A. Between seven and eight o'clock in the morning.

Q. Were you at all responsible for those hogs as an official of the Government ?
A. I suppose while they were in my charge, I was.

Q. I mean, were you responsible to show what became of them at all 1
A. No. I don't think so.

Q. They were sent there for a particular purpose ?
A. Yes, a special purpose.

Q. You weighed them, did you ?
A. I did.

Q. Did you keep count of the weights 1
A. Just these total weights.

Q. You took, as you weighed them, a memorandum of each hog ?

A. Yes. "

•

Q. As they came in ?

A. Oh, no. I didn't weigh them as they came in.

Q. Just as they went out ?

A. On the morning they went out.

Q. You weighed them out to Harris ?
A. Yes, sir.

.
Q. You took a memorandum of the respective weights ?

A. Yes.

Q. And Mr. Harris took away the memorandum with him ?
A. He took away the slip after we had weighed the hogs.

m
Q. You kept the slip with the total weights ?

A. Yes.

236

•61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Dr. SWBETAPPLE, recalled :

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. What are the Dominion Government quarantine regulations
in a case of this kind ?

A. That is a question I cannot answer ; the whole of the quarantine regulations ? I
can tell you the custom.

Q. Now, when can you put your hand on the quarantine regulations of the Dominon
^Government 1

A. I can't now, but I .

Q. How soon can you ?

A. I would have to go and get them. •

Q. You are here posing as Dominion Government inspector. Can't you tell me what
the regulations are ?

A. I beg pardon. I am not Dominion Government inspector ; I am acting as

Dominion Government inspector frequently ; I was acting then under Dr. Smith's instruc-
tions.

Q. Are you able now to tell me what are the regulations of the Dominion Govern-
ment ?

A. No ; I can't, without getting a copy of them.

Q. Are you not sufficiently familiar with them to do so ?

A. The custom and regulations are these, so far as I know : Recognize a case of hog
cholera, obliterate the disease, prevent it from extending by destroying the herd, the
healthy animals may be disposed of ; the healthy animals may be sold and the diseased
animals destroyed. That is the custom that has been going on and frequently done.
The healthy animals may be sold, but the animals must be killed to prevent the spread of
the disease. That is the idea, and the diseased animals must be burned or buried.

Q. Have you seen that in the regulations 1

A. Well, I can't be certain that I have seen that. There is a certain amount of
remuneration given.

Q. I understand that under the regulations it is peremptory that when hog cholera
strikes a herd every animal ought to be destroyed.

A. No, I can't say that.

Q. And yet you are posing as the Dominion Government inspector and do not know
the first principle of these regulations 1

A. I do not know them all. They're pretty long,

Q. Will you produce the regulations 1

A. I haven't them here, but I can get them.

Q. Won't they be in the building 1
A. I don't know anything about that.

237

61 Victoria. Anpendix (No. 1.) ' 1897-8-

Q. In your evidence in chief you stated that you went and inspected on Monday
afternoon a certain number of hogs.

A. Yes.

Q. That you so reported that inspection to Dr. Smith ?
A. Yes.

Q. That Dr. Smith, on the information you gave, prepared a written report for this
Committee ?

A. I don't swear that ; I suppose he did,

. Q. But you prepared a written report ?
A. No ; I did not.

Q. Do you deny that ?

A. To this Committee ? Oh, yes, I prepared a written report to this Committee a
week ago. I thought you meant at the time.

Q. You also gave in your evidence that you inspected these hogs on Monday after-
noon 1

A. I thought I did.

Q. Then you stated that you went again to inspect them, and the hogs were not
there 1

A. Yes. But I went another time.

Q. What has called that to your memory 1

A. Thinking you wanted to get out the whole particulars about it, I was thinking
about it at night and the very first thing in the morning I thought to myself, well, the
first time I went up there I went by myself and couldn't find the road. The road to go
up to that building is along a lane at the south edge of the Central Prison grounds. I
was told to go up there and went there, but couldn't find it and turned back. I can
recollect the whole thing as clearly as can be. I went and looked about and crossed over.
I crossed over the railway track and the slaughther house is about fifty yards south of the
Central Prison — about fifty or sixty yards from the Central Prison. And I rather think
I saw somebody. That made me certain that the first time I was there, I was not there
with Mr. Hunter, or if I had been there with him, I should not have wanted to enquire
the way.

Q. You know Mr. Hunter particularly well ?

A. Not particularly well. I know that I went with him.

Q. You know him by sight t
A. Yes.

Q. In your evidence in chief you said that when you inspected these hogs you didn't
know the men who were there.

A. I didn't know them at the time, Mr. Hunter was not there at the first time.

Q. Since Hunter gave his evidence you say you have new light, and that Hunter
was there?

A. You are not telling the truth. Hunter was not there when I went the first time..

238

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. I know that. If you will listen to me — but you said: you did not know the men
who were there the first time.

A. There were two men I did not know.

Q. And you did not know anything about Mr. Hunter when you gave evidence the
first day ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, about the inspection of the hogs.

A. Yes ; I did. I said I rode home with him part of the way.

Q. How many times were you there at the Central Prison?
A. I was there several times.

Q. No; no.

A. You are tryiDg to catch me. You don't want to get the truth ; you want to
catch me.

Q. I want to get all the stories you have got to tell, Mr. Sweetapple.

A. Well, you can't talk to me like that. If you do, I'll not answer you at all. I
won't be insulted. You are insulting me, and I won't take it.

Q. Answer me. You can take it as insulting if you choose. You stated in your
evidence in chief that you went first and inspected hogs, and would not swear that there
were more than forty inspected.

A. I won't swear to the number ; you are trying to catch me.

Q. What is the matter with you? Didn't you say yoa made an inspection on
Monday afternoon ?

A. Yes ; I said that.

Q. Didn't you state that when you went back again you couldn't insp< ct them
because the hogs were gone ?

A. Not on Monday.

Q. But the other day you said that you went back again, and the hogs were gone.
How many times did you go 1

A. I did. I went there twice and didn't find the hogs.

Q. Therefore you didn't see all the hogs.
A. No. I did not.

Q. How did you get to the piggery subsequently to see that everything had been
done as directed ?

A. I walked all the way out except the time I went that part of the way with Mr.
Hunter. I walked up to the cattle market every time and just went on further to the
prison.

Q. How did you get to the piggery 1 I am not talking about the cold storage
room ; when you made your official inspection, to see whether they had killed all the
hogs?

A. Oh ; that was afterwards ; to the piggery.

239

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Oh, yes ; I am not talking about anything else.
A. Oh, I have no doubt I can recollect.

Q. Did Hunter take you there when you went ?

A. There can be no doubt in the world, that the last time I went, I went by the
street railway.

Q. Did Hunter go with you 1
A. I don't think it.

Q. Will you say he did not 1

A. I don't think so. I will have to recollect a little while. I think I took street
cars to the Junction and then took the Mimico cars. I think that.

Q. You are not sure about it ?

A. I am almost sure about it — that is the last time I went that way. I should be
very much surprised if I didn't, but I can't tell you. That might come into my head in
time.

Q. Having given this matter a good deal of consideration, are you prepared now to
swear that a hog with diseased entrails did not necessarily show the spots on the meat <\

A. Oh, yes; I am. That's right.

Q. Are you prepared to swear to that 1
A. I am prepared to say —

Q. That the meat would appear thoroughly sound ?
A. Now that's another thing.

Q. That any sign of disease 'could be in the entrails and that there would not be
some sign upon the meat of disease if the entrails were all afiected ?

A. No. It is by examining the carcase you would be able to detect disease, but
might not be able to say what that disease was, you understand. You should be able, by
a proper examination of a carcase of butcher's meat, to tell whether it was dise ased. You
might be able to classify the disease and might not. You should be able to say it was
diseased, but might not be able to classify it. It would be quite doubtful if you could
specify the disease.

Q. But these were cases where you knew what the disease was 1
A. Yes; certainly.

Q. It being known •* hat the disease was, are you prepared to say that you could
detect in that meat inspection the slightest form of disease in the entrails ]

A. If the animal is suffering from disease in the intestines, and the animals are in a
weakened condition, I should certainly be able to detect it in the carcase.

Q. Do you mean to say that by that inspection you would have been able to detect
the slightest disease ?

A. I should be able to detect all diseased meat. I should not be able to specify the
disease but should be able, by an inspection of the carcase, to say whether the meat waa
fit to be used.

240

61 Victoria Appendix (No. 1.) 1S07-8-

Q. You should be ?
A. I should be.

Q. And you do not know whether you have done so or not ?
A. There is no one infallible.

Q. Are you now prepared to say that there were no diseased spota on that meat?
A. Yes, sir ; I could detect no diseased spots.

Q. Did you look for spots?
A. I did

Q. And did you mention to Hunter or Moore that you were looking for diseased
spots ?

A. It is so long ago that I can's say that I did so.

Q. You have heard the evidence of a good many that were at the killing. Are you
prepared to swear that in tne meat there were no spots ?

A. It is very likely that there were spots, but not disease spots.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that there were no disease spots ?

A. I don't know what they say, but I looked for disease spots but could not detect
them, and Mr. Hunter had given thorough instructions that there were no diseased hogs
to be brought. And he will tell you that.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that the operation of the cold storage would not
remove the color of erysipelated spots 1

A. They were not there. Very likely not.

Q. But if there were erysipelated spots before they came to the cold storage room
if rigor mortis had set in while in the storage, are you prepared to swear that that
operation would not remove those spots 1

A. It would not.

By Mr. MEACHAM :— Q. After these pigs were killed and on the way to the store
house, if they were pressed against the wagon, would that produce color spots ?

A. Certainly not. What is color produced by ? Blood, is it not ? I have
nothing to hide at all. A bruise in the dead tissues will not produce a discoloration,
because it will not produce an effusion of blood.

Q. Would a rash — red spot, not an extravasation of blood, disappear after death 1

A. Oh, certainly. A rash might disappear after death, There are some cases of

rash that would disappear. You know the blush on the cheek will disappear at death 1

Q. Here are the words taken from one of the books in the library on this disease :
" Red or purple colored spots diffused over the snrface .... they go on, as the
disease advances, to get bluish black spots." Everyone admits that the worst pigs were
burned. Take the pigs that were saved, they were certainly diseased, but in a very
mild form ?

A. No. An animal may have a disease in a very severe form and have no spots at
all.

30 j. 241

€1 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. But the pigs that were saved if they were diseased, were diseased in a very mild
form and therefore the rash would disappear ?

A. There might be no rash at all.

Q. The point I'm getting at is this. Newton and three or forr others swore very
positively that many of these hogs were spotted. You examined them, but found mo
spots. It they were mild cases of cholera, would not tha spots they saw when they killed
them be all gone when you examined them, and they were perfectly cool ?

A. Oh a little rash like that may have no effect.

Q. Then it might be perfectly true that Newton and these men saw these spots ?

A. I think they would have disappeared before that, if they were going to disappear

at all.

Q. Mr, St. John asked you the other day if this disease was not known as pneumo-
«nteritis ]

A. This disease is called hog cholera. There is another disease that is very apt to
exist at the same time and may be confounded with it, existing in the same hog and the
same herd. That is called swine plague. We don't have the erysipalated condition that
we hare in the —

Q. Stop there. This form was contagious pneumonia ; was that not so here ?
A. No. It was not.

Q. Whatever you have there was inflammation of the intestines 1

A. There was more than inflammation. There was ulceration of the intestines.

Q. Never mind that, but there was inflammation in the intestines 1

A. There was the result of inflammation — ulcers, in those that we examined.

Q. Was there any lung trouble in these cases ?
A. There is, as a general thing.

Q. ere there in those that you examined 1
A. There was some.

Q. Was there any pleuro pneumonia ?

A. There was a little hepatisation. There was a small lobe in one lung that is very
apt to be hepatised.

Q. But there was nothing in the shape of pleurisy ?
A. No, certaintly not.

Q Very well ; when you examined the lining of the chest, was there much dis-
coloration 1

A. If there was a marked disease, the lining of the chest and of the abdominal cavity
might have spots, but I do not remember particularly.

Q. Would these come there in the early stages of the disease ?
A. Yes, very likely.

242

Victoria Appendix (No. 1.) 1S07-8

Q. But not of necessity 1
A Generally.

Q. The contention is that in mild cases it would not be observed ?

A, In mild cases you would be more likely to see it than in those of old standing,
very chronic.

Q. If these animals that were taken into the cold storage were in a very mild and
early form of the disease, you admitted that the spots may disappear and you would not
see them. If the pigs had a mild form of the disease, just a red rash ?

A. The spots of inflammation will not disappear, but the blush on a man's cheek will
disappear at death.

Q. Do you swear that these spots disappear in the first stages of the disease ?
A. They are not always there.

Q What I am getting at is this ; if the rash outside may disappear, and the spots
outside may not appear, what other evidence have you that the animals had cholera 1

A. The condition of the carcase, the firmness of the carcase, the proper color of the
carcase and the tissues being in a good state of nutrition, firm and solid, rigor mortis set in
in good form.

Q. Excuse me now ; it is said that in the human subject, after cholera it sets in earlier
than in other cases.

A. But this appears very quickly. In all diseases of that kind that is one of the
evidences of disease.

Q. Take that for granted, but these pigs were hurried to the cold storage the
they were killed, and hurried off to market. You wouldn't say that rigor mortis would
disappear so early ?

A. It might and might not. It would be slower in coming on in a healthy animal in
warm weather like that, and more permanent when it did occur.

Q. Cold storage would hurry it on ?

A. Cold storage, after it got there, but look at the time it would take.

Q. But they were really sold and on the market before that rigor mortis had time
to disappear 1

A. I don't know anything about that.

Q. But they were away on Wednesday 1
A. I don't know where they went to.

Q. But you have sworn they left either Tuesday or Wednesday ?
A. Yes.

•
Q. Now, rigor mortis would not have time to disappear 1

A. If the carcase was healthy, as I believe they were, and I found rigor mortis, it
should not disappear. When that disappears decomposition commences.

243

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Exactly, and it wouldn't have time to disappear when you inspected. That
wouldn't be a very strong proof of the absence of disease ?

A. Not a very strong one, but there is another strong proof as to the absence of
disease. Contagious diseases vary in the proportion of animals that are exposed to
contagion and contract the disease.* Now in hog cholera it is a difficult matter to get at it
thoroughly, but it has been assumed that twenty -five per cent, of the old animals, we'll
say, or even less, may take the disease and 75 escape, even up to ninety per cent.

Q. Excuse me, would that assumption justify your taking out twenty-five per cent.
of those hogs slaughtered ?

A. No, but I want to prove that such a thing has never occurred that every animal
in a herd was diseased. It was never known, such a thing, that every animal in a herd
that's infected should be taken with hog cholera.

Q. Now, after Newton's evidence of the condition in which he found the hogs, he
said he didn't think a single pig was fit for food ; supposing, as a perfect stranger, you
heard Newton's evidence, would you consider these pigs were healthy ?

A. That's another question as to whether I would believe what a non-professional
man knew about inflammation. Oan a non-professional man give evidence as to
inflammation 1

Q. Answer my question, sir, please.
Question repeated.

A, If the intestines were really in a bad condition. They were not. If the intes-
tines are in a bad state, if they are diseased, the carcase would not be fit for use.

By Mr. MATHESON : — Q. I want to make allowance for the fact that you are speaking
18 months after the event. I want you to speak from your own memory, not from what
you heard here. On Monday you saw about 30 hogs ?

A. So far as I can recollect.

Q. And, so far as you can remember, speaking from your own recollection, I want
to make all due allowance for the time since, you didn't see any hogs after that ?

A. Oh, yes ; I must have seen them.

Q. Do you recollect whether you did see them or not ?
A. Yes, when I went with Mr. Hunter.

Q. The first time you didn't see anybody ?

A. Yes, I did ; I had a difficult matter to find my way,

Q. You saw Moore there ?

A. I would not swear that ; I saw some man there, but would not swear to any man.
I had forgotten this the first time, as you see, and it was called up to my mind when Mr.
St. John was so particular about the times I went there.

Q. You say you were there on Monday 1

A. I am sure 1 was there on Monday. As sure as I can be.

Q. Dr. Sweetapple, do you remember how many of these hogs you opened that day
or the man opened for you to see 1

A. I saw nothing, you understand, and I think I looked all around them. There
was a double row, as far as I can remember. I walked up and down and turned them
round. I didn't turn them end for end but looked at them.

244

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q It wasn't a very desirable place to be in, one witness said.

A. It was a nice cool place to be in, and there was a splendid light to see.

Q. Did this man help you at all ?

A. He turned them around if I wanted him to do so, but there was not much turn-
ing to do.

Q. He did that to a few hogs 1

A. He did it to those I wanted him to. I am accustomed to do this inspection.

Q. Did they smell badly 1
A. Certainly not.

Q. When did you go there again ?

A. I went there with Mr. Hunter. Do you mean when I went again ? I must
have gone ; I went at night.

Q. Have you any recollection of going there with Mr. Hunter ?

A. Yes, I can reollect going with him. I can't recollect the day, but it must
have been that I went there on two days, one following the other. I recollect it clearly
now, because if I had gone with Mr. Hunter at first I would have had no difficulty in
finding the place.

Q. How many hogs did you see on the second day 1
A. Oh, I can't say ; it was quite a number.

Q. How many did you see the second time ?
A. Ob, I can't say.

Q. Did you see 20 do you think 1

A. Oh, I must have seen more than that ; taking it roughly altogether, I must have
seen some 70 or 80 probably both times.

Q. You didn't see ; you don't say that from your own recollection of what happened ?

A. I know from the numbers that were hanging up. I can't swear to the exact
number.

Q. Will you swear from your own recollection that you took hold of and examined
more than one hog ?

A. Certainly ; a good many more.

Q From your own recollection 1

A. Certainly ; a great many more than one hog.

Q. And if a man says you examined only one, he is not stating what's correct 1
A. Certainly.

Q. And you say that the Dominion Government regulations, as you say yourself,
are to destroy all the hoga ?

A. No, to kill them all.

Q. You are aware that the orders are to destroy all and to sell none ?
A. No. I don't. The custom has not been that.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1 ) 181)7-8

Q. And if that is the regulation you haven't been obeying it 1

A. If it has been, it has been obeyed sometimes, sometimes the whole herd is stamped
out, and sometimes not.

Q. As a matter of fact, you do not know that it is the Dominion regulation ?
A. I do not know that. It would be a very expensive job.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. When you made your second inspection, did you inspect
every hog that was there ?

A. Yes, I did. I looked every hog over and I consider I made a complete inspection.

Q. Where were the hogs that you inspected the day before, when you went there
again ?

A. I know nothing about that.

By Mr. AULD :— Q. The first day there was a number of hogs there, and the next
day there was a number more ?

A. Yes.

Q. But you did not know that you inspected the same hogs twice ?

A. If the same hogs I inspected on the first day were there on the second, I inspected
them twice.

By Mr. GERMAN :-— Q. You went there, I understand, under directions from Dr.
Smith ?

A. Yes.

Q, What were your instructions ?
A. Do you mean about inspecting ?

Q What were your directions from Dr. Smith as to these carcases of pork that were
at this cold storage place ?

A. Just to go and see whether they were sound or not. And not to pass any that I
considered unsound, and I would have had no hesitation in condemning the whole lot of
them if I considered them unsound.

Q. You went there on the directions of Dr. Smith, for the purpose of carrying out
the Dominion regulations ?

A. Yes.

Q. And for the purpose of having destroyed any carcases that you found unsound 1
A. Most certainly.

By Mr. CONMEK ; — Q. You stated in answer to Mr. St. John that you were there
three times?

A. I must have been there more than three times because the first time I went and
after going there on Tuesday with Mr, Hunter, I went again to inspect the rest in the
evening and there were no more come down then. I went again the next morning. M r.
Hunter had told me there would be some more coming in, and the next morning there
were no more there.

Q. In answer to Mr. St. John, you stated that you were there on one occasion when
you might have seen thirty or forty hogs, and when you went again you didn't see any I
A. Yes, that was the last time I went.

246

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1 ) 1897 &

Q. Pardon me. Do you mean by that after that you never saw any hogs 1

A. No. That was my first evidence, and I had forgotten about going with Mr.
Hunter.

Q. You do remember that you were there with Mr. Hunter
A. The second time I was there with him.

Q. Your answer to Mr. St. John left the impression with me that you went on one
occasion and saw thirty or forty hogs, and did not see any more than that ? Did you
not mean that 1

A. I went there the the first time and saw that number, and I went there next time
and saw a number. I went on Tuesday evening again, and the hogs had not come in. I
went again on Wednesday morning and then from that, after that, I went down to see
that the regulation had been carried out at the piggery.

By Mr. AULD : — Q. Do you know what regulations were in force at this time —
Dominion regulations 1

A. No j I can't tell what the regulations were, but I can tell you the custom.

Q. Do you know anything about the regulations that have been since issued 1
A. I can't from memory give you the regulations, but I can give you the custom.

Q. Do you know that the whole system has been changed since that 1

A. Yes ; I know that some different arrangements have been made.

Q. Do you know anything about the regulations that were issued last July, by Prof*
Smith stopping the movement of store hogs in quarantined districts 1

A. I know that was done.

Q. That was in force before 1

A. No ; there was no district here quarantined. There have been different districts
in the country that have been quarantined, and some time ago, I can't tell you how long
ago, there were some parts of the county of York quarantined, two years ago, but there
was no district quarantine here.

Q. Do you know of any regulations ordering all hogs to be slaughtered where there
is an outbreak of cholera 1

A. I do not know that it is the regulation, If it was, that regulation has frequently
not been carried out, if that regulation exists.

Q. Do you know where it has ever been taken out of the hands of the inspector,,
where it has not been left entirely in his hands ? Suppose he finds a case of hog cholera
on a farm, for instance, and it is left entirely with him to handle, there is no regulation
saying that he shall kill all these hogs ?

A. No. I am not aware that there is a regulation of that kind. I worf*t say that
there is nor say that there is not. If there is, I don't know it.

Q Do you know of any regulation that takes it out of the hands of the Dominion:,
inspector ?
A. No.

247

<61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Can you tell us in the cases where disease is found, is there a difference made
between diseased hogs and those that are not diseased. ? What is the difference in the
compensation ?

A. There has been a change in the compensation. At one time healthy hogs that
were destroyed were compensated for at two-thirds their value, but since that we have
given three-quarters of their value, if they were healthy and destroyed.

Q. That is, for hogs not infected ?

A. Yes ; healthy hogs that have been condemned and one-third compensation on
diseased hogs ; but two-thirds if they are destroyed for the benefit of the community.

Q. That has been raised to three-fourths ?

A. Yes ; but it has been customary for those hogs th%t were healthy to allow the
owner, if they are fit to be butchered, to butcher them and use them after being inspected;
that is, the healthy ones.

By Mr. St. JOHN : — Q. If there is any sign of disease it is not fit for food ?
A. Certainly not. If there is any evidence at all of disease.

Q. If there is any evidence of the disease of: cholera, that hog would be unfit for food 1
A. Certainly. I would not pass it.

By Mr. AULD r— Q Who is the judge of whether there is disease there or not ? Take
it all over this country.

A. Jhe Dominion Government inspector.

By Mr. St. JOHN : — Q. And the proper test is dissection of the hog ?

A. The proper test of hog cholera is a careful post mortem examination.

Q. That's the only proper test of the existence of the disease ?
A. Yes.

Q. Which neither you nor Dr. Smith made with these ninety-seven hogs ?
A. Certainly not. These were ninety-seven healthy hogs.

By Mr. CONMEK : — Q. You would'nt make a careful post mortem examination of hogs
that you considered healthy ]

A, Certainly not.

Q. These healthy hogs in the cold storage, it would not be at all necessary ?
A. Of course not ; where they are healthy.

By Mr. St. JOHN : — Q. Are you prepared to swear that on that Saturday afternoan,
when you and Dr. Smith examined the whole herd, are you prepared to swear now that
every hog within that building was peifectly sound ?

A. No, of course not.

Q. Then, Doctor, if what Warner says is true, that on 5 o'clock on Monday following,
that, less than thirty-six hours, he wheeled out dead hoga and drove out several that were
very sick, assuming that to be true, were these hogs perfectly sound on Saturday ?

A. Of course they were not.— No, I wouldn't say that ; they might have been. That's
a doubtful question. You can't say how long before an animal may die after being first
infected with the disease. That is a question no one can say.

248

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Is it reasonable ? I suppose you have no interest to swear either one way or
another 1

A. Not at all, except to preserve my own veracity.

Q. If within thirty-six hours it was necessary to kill over 200 out of 300 hogs, are
you prepared to swear that all these hogs were sound on Saturday afternoon ?

A. No. I would not say that.

Q. So that when Dr. Smith stated in his evidence that there were only twelve hogs
that were sick on Saturday afternoon, that can't be true in the light of results 1

A. Hold on ! he said there were only twelve that showed evidence of disease.

Q. In Dr. Smith's evidence about his inspection, it was asked on what date did you
make your inspection and post mortem examination, and he said " On July llth. "

A. That's right enough.

Q. (continued ) By the 13th would the whole drove be so thoroughly diseased as
this last witness speaks of ? and Mr. Smith says there was not over twelve hogs diseased
the day we were there.

A. Showing evidence of disease is what he means.

Q If any man made the statement that there were only twelve hogs diseased there
that day, it would not be true ?

A. No, certainly not ; it might not be true.

Q. It could not be true ?

A. No ; I can't say that. It might not be true.

Q. Are you prepared to state in the face of the facts of these hogs being dead and
dying on Monday, that they were all sound on Saturday afternoon 1

A. Certainly not.

By Mr. AULD : — Q. Did the Provincial authorities carry out the instructions of Prof.
Smith, that is, the piggery authorities 1

A. The whole instructions you mean ?

Q. Yes.

A. Yes. I believe they did, with the exception of keeping one boar alive, and I
Relieve that animal is living yet, and that is pretty good evidence that it wasn't diseased.

Q. Prof. Smith is competent to handle a case like this ?
A. Oh, certainly.

Q. Do you know of anyone more competent to handle in Ontario than he ?
A. There should not be.

Q. There is no higher authority in Ontario ?
A. Certainly not.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. You do not state for a moment that either you or Prof. Smith
could examine the killing of the hogs in the spirit, when you were not there in the body 1

A. No ; we left that to the officials.

249

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) lcS97-&

Q. Neither of you were there at the killing ?
A. No ; certainly not.

JOSEPH FEATHERSTONE, sworn : —

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. Have you had any experience in connection with out-
breaks of hog cholera 1

A. Yes, considerable.

Q, In the case of an outbreak among a number of hogs, what has your experience-
been as to the number that would be affected with the disease ?

A. Well, the younger animals they take it first and die readily, and the older ones
will, of course, take it, but not so suddenly as the young ones.

Q. What is the usual course that you pursue in your experience, when an outbreak
occurs in a large number of hogs 1

A. In my case, I suppose it was different from ordinary hogs as mine are thorough
breds, but usually when we find that an animal is diseased we generally kill them and
bury them ; get them out of the road. When we got through at the World's Fair our
hogs were 12 days in quarantine, and it broke out among them. They brought it, I
guess, from Chicago. We lost 25 per cent, of them and 75 per cent, were saved by
isolating the well ones from the diseased, in pens built for them. That was done under
the direction of the deputy Minister at Ottawa. The vet. wanted to have them all
slaughtered. That was his instructions. The deputy Minister said they were too valu-
able to slaughter, and that we ought to try and save them if we could. As we wanted
to save them, I went out there myself and my man and stopped there for three months,

Q About how many were there altogether 1

A. I think I had about 30, and Mr. Brethour had pretty near the same number,
and there was a man from Forest who had about half a dozen. We had about 50 or 60>
hogs among us, and I think it was seven or eight lost.

Q. This course was taken under the*direction of the Dominion Government ?

A. Yes. The deputy inspector wired the authorities at Ottawa and the deputy
Minister came up and his instructions were — the vet. said he intended to slaughter them
all — but the deputy Minister said he had better not do it, that they were going to be too
valuable a lot, and it would cost the country too much to pay for a lot of hogs like that.

Q. What occasion was that 1

A, On the occasion of the World's Fair in 1893, on our return from Chicago.

Q. In this case, out of a number of 60 or whatever it was, 75 per cent, recovered or
never had the disease ?

A. Never had the disease. We disinfected the pens and gave the hogs medicine to-
prevent them getting it.

Q, What medicine did you give,]

A. We used to give spirits of turpentine in their food. The veterinary authorities
said that was a good thing for killing thejmicrobes. We fed them up and brought them
through pretty well.

250

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 181)7-3

Q, From your experience, would you say that if disease broke out in a herd of two
or three hundred, and instructions were given to have them all killed, would you think
the larger proportion of them would be good and healthy 1

A. Ob, yes. It's proved by the fact that 75 per cent, of those that were sick in
quarantine went home well and hearty.

Q. Have you had any other experience ?

A. Some cases occurred in my own herd when I lost 50 per cent, of them, 60
out of 120.

Q. What happened then ?

A. Mr. Oowan of Gait, the vet., who was employed acting under Dr. Smith, told me
what to do, and we treated them the same as we did those in quarantine. I took them
away about 50 rods across the orchard, from where the disease broke out, and saved all
of them.

Q. Was that in the second case ?

A. No. That was the first case. I lost 50 per cent, in the first case. Of course I
didn't have the benefit of the experience then that I had in the second case.

Q. Any other case you know of ?

A. I don't know personally about them any more than hearsay.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Where do you live ?
A. Toronto township.

Q. Do you keep thoroughbred hogs 1
A. Yes.

Q. Show them at exhibitions 1
A. Yes.

Q. How long was cholera in the herd before you detected it at the exhibition 1
A. Oh ; it wasn't at the exhibition ?

Q. Where?
A. At home.

<^{. When you got back ?
A. No. In the summer.

Q. When you lost those 25 per cent, it wasn't at the exhibition t
A. No. It was at the quarantine coming from the World's Fair.

Q. How long had you disease in the hogs there before you found it out 1

A. We found it out 12 days after they got into quarantine, 12 days bafore they
found it out.

Q How long had any of the hogs cholera before you knew it 1

A. We knew it right away. A hog that took cholera, I would know it in a day.

Q. The moment you found it out you separated the others ?
A. Completely.

251

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What would be the effect if you had not t
A. I believe they would all take it.

Q. How long before they would take it ?

A. That would depend. The young ones would take it first.

Q. But if it was in such a condition that the old ones were rotten with it, and dying,
and dead, it would be in an advanced stage of the disease ?

A. It would be in a pretty forward state.

Q. But if you found in your herd that you had located where there was no possible
chance of air coming there, down in a hole, and had 300 hogs and two, three and four
a day had been dying from the 28th June to the 1 Oth July ]

A. Well, there would be a good deal of disease, I should think, bred in that time.
It takes about 14 days to develop.

Q. Of course, but they were dying on the 28th June and from that day until the
10th July, 36 had died up to that time, and 12 were sick and they had to knock them
on the bead and burn them that day, and several being dead early Monday morning, and
200 and more having to be burned because they were so diseased, would you be prepared
to say those remaining 97 would be healthy hogs ?

A. The only thing I can say is this, that my hogs, when I had the disease in my
herd, had it about three weeks.

Q. Would you think under these circumstances that it would be reasonable to have
97 hogs healthy 1

A. I would think there would be more than that healthy. That's from my
experience.

Q. If three cf them were stuck and cleaned just when they were at their last and
dying, would you consider them healthy ?

A No. I would not.

Q, Would you consider a hog would be healthy if it was stuck after it was dead ?
A. No. I would not.

Q. There has been evidence given here that several of them were dead and eleven
of them after being dressed showed such a bad appearance that they had to be thrown on
the fire. Eight or ten of them had to be taken from the scalding board and every one of
them had diseased entrails. Would you be prepared to swear that that statement was
untrue ?

A. I can't say. I wasn't there to see ; if there was reliable evidence.

Q Are you prepared to swear that any of those hogs of yours had the disease and

gOt Wtoll 1

A. Yes. I had one sow that I know had the disease, and I brought her home and
she got well.

Q. I want to ask you, would that hog, while it had disease, be fit for food ?
A. I don't think it would.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1879-8

Q. How far were those hogs that were saved separated from those hogs that had
the disease ?

A. Well, we saved some that were not 10 feet away. We left some in a separate
pen.

Q. Some of those that were sick, you separated them on the other side of the orchard
A. That was in 1889, and I am not sure.

Q. In that case you lost 60 out of 120 1
A. Yes.

Q. Did any sick hogs get well 1
A. Yes, they did.

Q. How many 1
A. Two.

Q. Your experience is that very few get well if they have the disease in a severe
form ?

A. Oh, when they get the disease very bad you can't save them,

Q. Did you ever open any hogs 1

A. Yes, I opened them. Mr. Cowan was there when I did so.

Q. What was their appearance ?

A. They were swollen very much and discolored.

Q. Were they barking ?

A. '1 hey coughed a little, not much.

Q. Do you recollect what the meat was like ?

A, All along from the throat back underneath the body was discolored.

Q. Have you any experience of what meat of hogs would look like that had the first
stage of disease in the entrails ?
A. I don't know about that.

Q. Are you prepared to contradict this statement that a hog that has this disease
Toughly developed inside may look fairly healthy outside ?
A. The first sign I see is in the eyes, running at the eyes and swollen.

Q. If the disease is well located inside, it might not show anything outside ?
A. I don't know anything about that. I'm not a medical man.

Q. And you do not know how long it is developed before it shows in the eyes ?
A. I do not.

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61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q, Have you ever opened any hogs in the first forms of the disease 1
A. Oh, yes ; we have opened a good many of them.

Q. Did you ever open what appeared to be a sound hog 1
A. No ; only those that showed disease.

Q. Did you kill any hog that didn't show outside appearances of disease 1
A. Yes.

Q. What did you find inside 1

A. We found in one that had appeared to be purged at times — I killed one on
purpose, and it was purged at the time — and it had no showing on the outside. It didn't
show anything in the inside, but it was purging. I could not see anything on the inside.

Q. Did you ever kill a hog that showed no outward signs of disease for the purpose
of finding out whether it had it or not in a cholera herd ?

A, No ; I didn't kill any other than the one that was purging.

Q. Are you prepared to say that the outside appearance of the hog does not naturally
show whether he has disease or not 1

A. Well, I did not think there was any disease unless it would show something
outside.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that ?

A. I think it would — that's my experience.

Q. And you are not an expert 1

A. No ; I am not an expert, and not a veterinary either.

Q. From the experience you have had, do you think a veterinary does his whole duty
without opening an apparently sound hog in a large herd that had cholera ?

A. I think it would be ; we have done it.

Q. If you wanted to know whether the meat was sound or not, you would like to be
on hand when they were opening it 1

A. If there was any doubt about its health, I would.

Q. There would be some doubt in a case of this kind ?

A. Oh, there would be doubt in the case of all of them, I should think.

Q. And for that reason, they should have been inspected at the opening ?
A. Oh, that's for a medical man to say ; not for me.

Q. But you believe it would be quite reasonable for them to be there ?
A. I do.

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€1 Victoria. Appendix (No. L) 1897-8

By Mr. GERMAN : — Q Do I understand that the disease had been in your herd 3
weeks before you began to separate them ?

A Before I called in the Dominion Inspector; we didn't know what it was at that time.

Q. The herd showed evidences of disease which you did not understand ?

A. We didn't understand it at all. The pigs began to drop over dead ; that was
the first I saw of it.

Q And that continued for 3 weeks, and then you called in a veterinary and learned
it was cholera 1

A. Yes.

Q And then you separated your herd ?

A. Well, he called it swine plague ; but it was the very same disease we had in
quarantine. I have my own reasons for thinking that he called it swine plague, because
he didn't want to have the Government brought into it ; when I was out my sixty hogs I
didn't get paid for them.

Q. And you saved 50% of your hogs 1

A. I saved 50%. Of Bourse I lost a few after separation. In fact out of those that
«ame into contact there were four that we kept with them, and doctored them right through.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Do I understand that you didn't make any separation, till
three weeks after you found one dead ?

A. No ; they were in the pens or in the fields together.

Q They were not shut up in any building ?

A. But they came into the building where they were fed. Some of them were shut
up in the building.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS :— Q. Do you know Prof. Smith ?
A. Yes.

Q. Do you think, if he took charge of an institution where there was cholera with
several hundred hogs in it, and he gave instructions respecting them, that they would be
proper instructions ?

A. Oh, I think, so. Or Mr. Cowan, too, is very competent.

12th January, 1898.
Mr. JAMBS NOXON, recalled :

By Mr. St. John : — Q. Who has charge of the piggery account ?

A. The Bursar of the Central Prison. It is in his Department but the accountant
does the work.

255

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 18!>7-s

Q. Who is the accountant 1
A. A. O. Anderson.

Q. Who supervised the details of the work on construction at the piggery t Wha
has supervised it ?

A. W. A. Hill had charge of the work ?

Q. Under whose instructions ?
A. Under my instructions.

Q. Then you are chief instructor in connection with it 1
A. I am ; yes.

Q. And responsible to the Government for the moneys expended ?
A. Yes ; I am.

Q. And familiar with all the details of the money expended 1

A. Generally, but I can't say as to every pound of nails and every foot of lumber.

Q. But generally 1
A. Generally?

Q. Any substantial amount would be known by you 1
A. Yes.

Q. From $15 up ?

A. They would all pass under my audit.

Q. You were asked in 1897 to give a complete statement of the cost of the construc-
tion, including the buildings proper, the piggery, private residence, the wells and all the
appurtenances ?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you furnish that statement ?
A. I furnished a statement ; yes.

Q. Can you produce a copy of that statment ?
A. I have it here.

Mr. ST. JOHN : — I would ask it to be put in and form part of the manifest of the
accounts.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Is that a correct statement ?
A. No : it is not a correct statement.

Q. Was it not sent to me as a correct statement ?

A. Not to the same exactness that we could produce a statement for the examina-
tion of the Committee.

Q. So that that statement is relative, not accurate ?
A. It is an exaggerated statement. The cost is less.

256

6) Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897

Q. Is every item of expenditure up to the 31st December, 1896, included in that,
statement 1

A. I really cannot say if it is. I may just explain this. When I was asked for the
statement .

Q. That was what was asked for ?

A. Yes. And when I was asked for a statement I made search for the accounts for
1895, which had been produced before this Committee at former session of the same and
could not find them. When returning them from the Committee they had been put away
with 1893 accounts. I had a search made for them, and they were only found ten daya
or two weeks ago.

Q. And in the items of cost of 1894 and 1895 there were inaccuracies 1
A. There were.

Q. Are there any in 1896 ?

A. When I found I could not get the accounts, I took the Public Accounts, and
made an analysis as far as I could from them.

Q. Then you depended largely on the Public Accounts for an analysis 1
A. I did.

Q. What was the total cost of construction up to the end of 1896 as furnished by-
your statement ?

A. $7,020.69.

Q. And that statement is chiefly made up by taking excerpts from the Public
Accounts direct 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, just before I go on further with that, are you able now to tell me how
much you have paid out to the 31st December, 1897, on construction account?

A. There has been paid out — you mean the total for the whole year, 1897 ?

Q. The whole year 1897 alone.

A. There has been nothing paid out on construction account except something since
that statement was prepared.

Q. Do you say that nothing was paid out on construction account during the year
1897?

A. Not until after this statement was prepared. Beg pardon. Just wait a moment.
There are several items there which may be repairs. I can't tell about that.

Q. Give me, please, after figuring it out carefully, the exact amount paid out on con*
struction account.

A. I can't say that this is construction. They will be all repairs, no doubt. I may
say that portions of the repairs on this building have been charged to industries. I think
you will have to turn to Journals, page 454. Will you turn to that Mr. Williams, please
— that will be the cash book. What is the charge there 1

Q. Just figure it up.
A. There is $31.31.

31 J. 257

Victoria Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q Then the whole amount expended by the Government for 1897 for construction
repairs is how much 1

A. $31.31.

Q. That's all the money paid out in 1897 ?

A. No ; it's not all the money paid out in 1897.

Q. For those items 1

A. No, there's $128.57 paid for filling the lot.

Q. I am going to ask you about that later. You don't regard that as part of repair
=and construction account ?

A. T say that has been charged to industries as there was no appropriation for it.

Q. If it's not construction account, what would you call it 1
A. Improvement of plant.

Q Then it would be construction account 1
A. It would be.

Q. So that when you state that $31.31 was expended on construction account in
1897, that was not correct 1

A. I am not saying that $31 31 is the total on construction account. We would
require to see the accounts first.

Q Your statement is a relative statement again.

A. The accounts are here. They are produced before the Oommittee. These accounts
will show the answer to the question.

Q. I ask you to give me the exast amount expended by the Government on the
piggery for construction in 1897. That is quite a simple question.

A. I am taking out these items without knowing whether they are charged against
construction or running expenses.

Q. I presume you will know.

A. No, because this may not show it.

Q. Then you are unable to give me the exact amounts ?
A. Not without referring to the accounts.

Q. You have spent $128.12 for filling in the hole this year ?
A. That's all we have paid up to the 31st December ?

Q. Does that represent all the money that was paid out to the workmen for filling
in that hole 1

A. That's all the money paid out to the close of December.

Q. Are yon clear about that 1

A. I am only speaking by the book. If it was paid out, it's in the book.

Q. I am asking you. Does the book show all the money paid ?
A. Up to the 31st December, 1897.

258

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. To the workmen employed there ?
A. To everyone.

Q. When did you commence filling in the hole ?
A. I think about September or October.

<^. Wasn't it on Monday morning the 4th October 1
A. It may be.

Q. How many hands were employed the first two weeks ?

A. I can t give the exact number. It may have been ten or twelve.

Q. Were there not sixteen ?
A. There might have been.

Q. Produce me the names of those men who worked there the first two weeks.
A. I suppose that they can be obtained from the accounts.

Q Are you aware, Mr. Noxon, that about $250 was paid out on Saturday night at
the end of the second week 1

A. No ; I don't know it.

\
Q. You don't know that ? It might have been paid out without your knowing it ?

A. It could uot have been paid out without my knowing it, or at least I did not
know it.

Q. What do you mean ? I want to know whether it could not have been paid out
without your knowing it 1 Couldn't it be possible that arrangements might be made and
the money paid on behalf of the bursar of the Central Prison and not paid by you. Is
that possible ?

A. Yes, by special authority and without knowing on any one day the exact amount
paid.

Q. That moneys can be paid out on behalf of the bursar of the Central Prison with
out his knowing it ?

A. Yes. On behalf of the bursar. Money may be paid by authority and be refunded

Q And afterwards refunded by the bursar ?
A. Just so.

Q. So that under your principle of book keeping you can have money paid by the
<bursar which is subsequently repaid by the treasurer ?

A. Yes, in special oases.

Q. Is not that the case here t
A. To some extent, I think it is.

Q. To what extent 1
A. I can't tell.

259

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Q. Does that appear here 1 Now you have already acknowledged that money ia
paid on behalf of the bursar that will be afterwards refunded. Now will you show me
any items that have been paid out here that may be refunded ?

A. No ; items appear in the books until paid by the bursar.

Q. I will ask you to turn to page 460, Central Prison industries, and show me a,
dollar there that has been refunded ?

A. This is for 1897.

Q. 1897 up to the 31st December ?

A. Does this contain all the moneys paid up to the 31st December 1 or is it only the*
statement of ten months 1

Q. That's what I don't know ; I am asking you.
A. Is this the ten months' statement 1

Q. No, sir, it's for twelve months.

A. The lists supplied by the accountant to the treasury should embrace all those
items here, every item.

Q. Does it embrace all these items 1
A. Certainly it does.

Q. Then this $128 is all the money paid out to men employed for filling in this-
miasma pool ?

A. As far as the books show.

Q. I am not asking you that ? Does it embrace all ?

A. This does not state the 31st December. It simply states December. This
appears to be not the completed statement.

Q. Are you prepared to give a twelve months' statement ?
A. Only by going to the accounts.

Q. So then you admit what purports to be a twelve months' statement is only a ten
months' statement?

A. So it's explained to me now.

Q. So that moneys have been expended during 1897 that do not appear in the
Public Accounts ?

A. It certainly ought to appear in this statement.

Q. Does it appear anywhere else 1

A. I do not know ; it does not appear to be here.

Q So that in this investigation, so far as it goes, it shows that the expenditure of
1897, as presented by the Treasurer, is only relative ?

A. I do not see how this can be. It should be in this statement. I am told that
the two months' statement was not taken out. It should be.

260

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Then the whole expenditure of 1897 does not all appear in the Public Accounts t

A. I would not like to say that, without a more close examination of this statement.
It should contain the whole twelve months. I see there are some payments here $49 79.
It's impossible to know what they are without referring to the vouchers.

Q. So that you have payments in the Public Accounts which it is impossible to
know what they are for ?

A. Without referring to the accounts.

Q. And it's impossible to tell what the disbursements are for 1

A. There is an entry here which may include some of these accounts.

•Q. Do you wish to modify your statement ?
A. No; I do not wish to.

Q. So that the whole expenditure of 1897 does not appear in the Public Accounts for
1897 1 Is it possible, in regard to this small matter with which we are now dealing, that
the last two months' of 1897 expenditure will appear elsewhere in the Public Accounts t

A. I do not think it will appear elsewhere.

Q. Does it appear here ?

A. Really, I do not see it, except as regards salaries. They're all in for 1897. But
the expenditure for the piggery apparently does not appear.

Q. They do not appear in the statement for the whole twelve months ?

By Mr. GERMAN : — Q. Excuse me, is this twelve months' account ? What you are
getting at is whether that contains all the expenditure.

Mr. ST. JOHN. — What I have got at is that the Public Accounts does not show the
entire expenditure of the Province.

Mr. GERMAN, — The witness does not say that. You are continually putting answers
in the witness' mouth which he does not say.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — A. I would require to check this off to see that these items do
not appear.

Q. Before I leave that, I want a definite statement ; are all the expenditures on
account of construction account of the piggery for 1897 appearing in the Public Accounts
for the year 1897 ?

A. I can't say that without checking off" all these items.

Q, Well, check them off then. Is there any other man that knows more about the
accounts than you do ?

A. Than I do myself ? They may know more about the statement that has been
furnished, but without checking off all these items I cannot answer whether they are all
here in the Public Accounts. I must eay that my impression was that the last two
months' statement was brought down after the ten months' statement.

Q. You can examine these accounts very quickly. I have gone over them in five
minutes.

A Well, let's have the accounts and see. What are here ?

261

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. On the books for the Government will the last two months appear ?

A. I can't say that without checking off. I would have to look at the accounts.
I don't know what name they are charged under. I would have to get the names of the
parties. Let me explain it. The whole expenditure is in this statement, but the
accounts for the whole year are not brought down before the Committee.

Q. Why are not all the accounts asked for before this Committee 1

A. Because they were produced before the end of the year. The total expenditure
is in the Public Accounts, but the accounts themselves are not all here.

Q, Show me an item in the Public Accounts for the last two months that does not
appear in this statement for the ten months only.

A. You see we would have to go over every account to do that.

Q. There are only a very few accounts. Go over them. It's very easy. You have1
very little to do.

A. As 1 say, what has been spent on the piggery for construction in 1897 is charged
to industries.

Q. Answer that question if you can.

A. I should have to take all the accounts to do so.

Q. Now, Mr. Noxon, you are putting up an additional building, a stable there ;
asphalting the extension sixteen feet ; doing a great deal of work on construction account
day after day for the last two months, every day ; you are familiar with it, and I want
you to show me one item for the last two months that does not appear in the ten
months' statement.

A. Every dollar that has been paid out up to the 31st December appears in the
Public Accounts.

Q. What do I produce ? The Accounts for ten months. The bundle of papers I
produce are the total accounts for the construction of the piggery for the ten months
ending the 30th October.

A. The construction accounts only. There is nothing charged to construction,
account in 1897.

Q. The filling in of the hole is a construction account?

A. That is charged to industries, running account, the whole thing.

Q. You now want to say that spending large sums of money filling in the hole alone
is put under the department of expenses of industry 1

*A. It is charged against the running expenses of the industry.

Q. Is there nothing else you can do with it ?
A. It's the only thing I can do.

Q. Show me one item in the Public Accounts for the last two months that has not
been brought down on statement of construction for ten months 1

A. You will have to wait while I send to the prison for the balance of accounts.

Q. Well, then, I want you to send to the prison. The item, Sanderson Pearcy <fc
Co., in 1897, $20.32, does that appear in your Public Accounts 1

A. There is an item here, Sanderson Pearcy & Co. $73.85 that is charged to the
Central Prison Industries, and the $20.32 may be included in it.

262

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

FREDERICK WILLIAMS, sworn.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. What is your name ?
A. Frederick Williams.

Q. You are bookkeeper at the Central Prison ?
A. No ; I am shipping clerk.

Q. You would be as familiar with the accounts as Mr. Noxon ?

A. I very likely would, because I have the certification of the accounts.

Q. You are familiar with the institution named the piggery ?
A. I have heard of it. I am familiar with the accounts.

Q. Show me what accounts appear — what particular accounts — appear in the Public
Accounts ending 31st December, 1897, that relate to the expenditure on construction for
the last two months ?

A. There is J. Royce, laborer, $19.

Q. Is that in the last two months 1
A. That is in the last two months.

Q. Exclusively 1
A. I think so.

Q. Well, I want to know it positively ]

A. Well, give me the ten months' accounts then till I see. That does not appear
in the ten months' Public Accounts and it does in the twelve months'.

Q. Give me another 1

A. Jos. Rush, $21.60 ; Jno. Waters, $12.38. I would like to say, I am only giving
this from memory as belonging to the piggery.

Q. I want you to say that you are giving it under oath and that it's correct.

Mr. GERMAN. — To be correct, 1 think we had better have the accounts from the
Central Prison. There is very little use in going on here and having witnesses exam-
ined for some considerable time and then at last saying, " I am not positive as to that,"
when Mr. St. John desires to have it positive.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. Are you aware that the first $245 or $250 that was paid
out to the men filling in the hole in 1897, at the end of the first two weeks.did not
appear in the Public Accounts ?

A. 1 am not aware of it.

Q. Are you aware that the money is paid out and is intended to be refunded by the
bursar of the Central Prison ]

A. I can't say as to that.

Q. Do you know that it is paid out 1
A. I do not know.

263

<il Victoria. Appendix (No. 1. 1S97-8

Q. You know nothing of it ?

A. I know nothing. I haven't the accounts for the last two months, Public
Accounts, that is the full twelve months. I made a statement for ten months and picked
out all the vouchers and you have them here, but I would have to have the vouchers
here for the last two months.

Q. You can't give any definite statement without the vouchers ?
A. I cannot.

Q. Are you aware that those items of Rush, Royce and Waters are moneys paid for
"work at that filling in of the hole, for work done at the first payment for the first two
'weeks ?

A. I can't say that.

Q. Are you aware that the whole group were turned off employment at the end of
the first two weeks ?

A. I had nothing to do with it, nor any knowledge of it.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS — Q. With reference to the twelve months' statement of the
treasurer here, are the accounts in connection with the Central Prison industries brought
down to the 31st December last?

A. They are — all payments.

C^. Are you sure of that?
A. I am positive of that.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. You have just stated to me that you are not positive
'with reference to the vouchers 1

A. That is with reference to the Piggery ; I am not able to say whether it's paid out
on account of the Central Prison or the Piggery.

Q. Are you able to state that all the moneys paid out for construction and repairs
lor the Piggery appear in this statement for the whole year 1897, Public Accounts ?

A. Every cent that was paid out.

Q. Answer my question, please 1
A. That's what you asked.

Q. Are you in a position to state that you know that it shows all the money paid
out to laborers on construction account in 1897 ?

A. All on industrial account. This is the industrial account of the Central Prison.

Q. Does it show all the moneys that the laborers received, for instance, for filling in
the hole in 1897 ?

A. It shows all we paid.

Q. Have you personal knowledge of that?

A. If they were paid through the Central Prison.

Q. Does it say whether it shows all the money paid on account of the Government I

A. I am only speaking of accounts that have appeared in the Central Prison
accounts, and have been paid through the Central Prison.

264

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. It might be paid without your knowing it 1
A. I suppose it could.

Q. As a matter of fact, I ain prepared to prove that they got $250 on the second
week after working, the second week in October, because the men received it.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS :— Q. How could ifc be paid without you knowing it? What do
mean by that ?

A. If there were extraordinary payments some other way I would not know any
thing about it.

Q, All the payments that have been made on Central Prison industries during 1897
«re in these Public Accounts ?

A. Yes.

Q. You are sure of that ?
A. I am positive.

By MR. MATHESON : — Q. In giving that answer you are only speaking of what goes
through your books in the Central Prison ?

A. Of what went through my books.

Q. And if there was any advance to these men by officials of the Government you
would not know it ?

A. If the bursar had paid it I would have known it.
JAMES NOXON, recalled :

By MR. ST. JOHN : — Q. Do you know, as a matter of fact, that money was paid to
these men that don't Appear in these Public Accounts 1

A. I do not know as a matter of fact, but I know that I gave instructions to pay
them.

Q. You gave instructions to pay money out that does not appear in the Public
Accounts 1

A. Allow me to explain. Now, these men were working at the Humber ; they are
laboring men, and when they get their pay earned they go to the bursar's office at the
Central Prison, which naturally takes a half day. It was represented to me that it was
a hardship to require them to do that. Warner said, " I have some money of my own,
and I will pay them and take their vouchers and get the Central Prison bursar to refund
it to me." I told him to do so, and to be careful to take vouchers for the money. If he
has paid out moneys and is holding the vouchers which he has not presented to the
bursar, there will be that amount which does not appear in the accounts. But that was
the arrangement made by me and on my instructions.

Q. So you gave Warner instructions to pay the money out to these men, out of his
own money, to be refunded by the bursar at the Central Prison 1

A. I did.

Q. When did you give those instructions ?
A. Very soon after the work commenced.

Q. When did he make the first payment ?
A. I can't say. I don't know.

266

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-

Q. Has Warner reported to yon the amount paid during October ?
A. No.

Q. Why didn't lie ?

A. He did not need to report to me.

Q. Did he report the vouchers and get his money 1

A. I don't know. I told him to get in all his vouchers and get his pay. Whether
he did so or not, I do not know.

Q. How much did you pay these men each day for working there ?
A. I think it was 12£ cents per hour.

Q. That's right ; $1.25 per day. How much to the men with carts 1
A. $2.

Q. Now, will you tell me how much the total would be if they worked there two
weeks ?

A. I don't know that they did work there two weeks.

Q. Now; as a matter of fact, if they worked two weeks were they not entitled to $258?
A. Give me the time they worked there and I'll tell you.

Q. I ask you a simple question, two weeks, twelve days, sixteen men and two carts
— what would they be entitled to at the end of those two weeks 1

A. That is supposing that these men worked two weeks.

Q. It is a supposition.

A. That includes the two carts 1

Q. There would be sixteen men including two carts.

HON. MR. DAVIS objected to anything appearing in evidence relating to anything
than does not appear in the Public Accounts.

By MR. ST. JOHN : — Q. How much do you make it out, Mr. Noxon ? The fourteen
men were employed twelve days at $1.25 per day, and two other men w'th carts at $2
per day ; what would be the total amount ?

A. For how many days 1

Q. For twelve days.

A. Oh, I thought you said sixteen days. It will be $258 for twelve days.

Q. Will you explain to this Committee — have you any further explanations to make
to this Committee with regard to these payments being left out by Warner ?

A, Nothing more than the statement I have made that I told Warner to pay this
money, take vouchers and hand them to the Central Prison bursar to be refunded.

Q. Have you any statement in regard to the labour employed in filling in that hole T
A. Nothing except what is in the book.

Q. That's the only record you have ?

A. Unless there's something changed in the last two months.

266

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Can you tell how long they have been working there I

A. I cannot tell. They have been working there for a considerable length of time.

Q. So that one week does not represent the length of time they were working there f
A. No. I would think not,

Q. Does $128 represent the amount paid in one week f
A. I can't say.

Q. So that you are hazy about it ?

A. The original accounts will speak for themselves.

Q. In your ledger you show $128 only paid.
A. Yes, sir.

Q. In the Public Accounts there is no way of finding that out except by examining
the Central Prison industries account ?

A. Certainly.

Q Are these accounts ear marked " piggery " in the Public Accounts of 1897 1
A. Not in the Public Accounts.

Q. So that you admit tlat the expenditures re piggery are not ear marked, and can-
not by any outsider be ascertained from the Public Accounts ?

A. No, not as they are entered here ; and the same thing applies to the other Central
Prison industries.

Q. So that, Mr. Noxon, the expenditures on account re piggery are mixed up from
the very beginning, 1894, to the present time, under the head of Central Prison and
Central Prison industries in the Public Accounts ?

A. The accounts are kept separate at the Central Prison. •

Q. No. I know that. Answer my question.

A. Not in the Public Accounts of course, but in the books of the Central Prison they
are kept distinct.

Q So that if you refer to the Public Accounts it would be impossible for anybody
to ascertain the amount expended on construction account in the piggery ?

A. Certainly, and the same applies to all other industrial departments.

Q. So that, under your system of book-keeping, you do not keep the accounts so
separated in the Public Accounts that you can ascertain the amount of monejs
expended in any particular institution?

A. In our system of book-keeping the distinction is kept, but as it appears in the
Public Accounts, the distinction we have in our books does not appear.

Q. Then your system of book-keeping does not appear in the Public Accounts ?
A. Not in that respect.

Q. Then you mix up the expenditures under the common heading " Industries " 1
A- No. It's all one institution and we're simply dealing with one institution and
its branches. It is all one institution.

267

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. This piggery is quite a distance from the Central Prison f
A. Yes, quite a distance.

Q. How far?

A. It must be two miles.

Q. In the township of York ?

A. Yes ; I'm not sure though, about the township of York.

Q. Well, then, you think your authority was to place it in Etobicoke, You don't
know whether it is in York or Etobicoke ?

A. No.

Q. I'll have to enlighten you on the matter. It's in the township of York. Did
you have any appropriation for filling in that hole in 1 897 ?

A. No.

Q. Why did you undertake this expenditure without an appropriation for it ?
A. I did it to it to improve the lot.

Q. Was it necessary 1
A. I think it was.

Q. Why?

A. There was a possibility of drainage from the piggery having been deposited in
this hole during the cholera, and we might have an outbreak of disease again and from
that I concluded to fill it up.

Q. You thought it was necessary to avoid disease 1
A. Yes.

Q. Did that occur to you before this was disclosed to the public 1

A. It was at the time we re-constructed the place. My intention from the first was
to filJ that lot up in the spare time of the man. We bad to have a caretaker there, and
he was not employed his whole time.

Q. A large portion of that lot is continually under water, is it not t
A. Some portion of it is.

Q. A large portion ?

A. A small portion, perhaps not more than one-eighth of an acre out of the whole

acre.

Q. Wasn't there more than that ?

A. Certainly not ; I don't think it would exceed an eighth.

Q. Did you ever attempt to find the depth of water in that corner ?
A. Since we commenced filling we found it.

Q. Did you stick down a pole.

A. We stuck down a pole the length of a rail.

268

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. And that is correct 1

A. Well, I was told so ; I didn't do it myself.

Q. You are not prepared to say that you can take a rail and stand it down the
whole length of it in the water ?

A. I think you could from the information I had.

Q. How much money has been expended in fitting in that hole 1
A. Something between $300 and $400.

Q. Not more?

A. I don't think so.

Q. Can you give a statement of how much was expended ?
A. I could if I had time ?

Q. How much time would you want ?

A. With the manager of the piggery here, perhaps 25 minutes.

Q. You say you can't tell me how much ?

A. If Mr. Warner is holding back vouchers, 1 would have to know it. Of course I

can't say.

ISAIAH WARNER recalled : —

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Are you holding back any vouchers for payments of money
that do not appear in the Public Accounts ?

A. I have some money that was paid out belonging to my wife or myself, but I
haven't sent the vouchers in for payment.

Q Then have you any vouchers for money paid out for construction 1 That is, fill "
ing, that has not been reported, and are not in the Public Accounts ?

A. I have kept the time of the men — what do you mean by vouchers t

Q. For construction account for work done in 1897, that are not here.

A. I have the time of the men that I have not sent in to the bursar for payment of
their time. I paid these men myself, and haven't sent the time in yet.

Q. Have you receipts 1

A. Yes, sir. I have. I have the names of the men. As 1. paid them each $10 or
$12 or $14 I had them sign on the book "received so much for work that was per-
formed, at the piggery."

Q. Have you these books 1
A. They are in my possession.

Q. Are they here ?

A. No, they are not here.

Q. Oan you produce them ?
A. I can produce those books.

269

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Can you tell me how much money you paid out at the end of the first two weeks ?

A. Not without my books, I am not telling anything under oath without looking
at my books.

Q. Do you remember the men who worked there the first two weeks 1
A. Not exactly.

Q. Geo. Simpson. Teddy Oavanagh, Tom Greenfields ?

A. I can't say. I can't say what time Tom Greenfields started. The first two
*-eeks we didn't start the horses and carts on the first Monday. I think it was on
Wednesday.

Q. Pat Boy Ian 1

A. You mean Boland ? Yes.

Q. Andrew Beadle, and Pat Mcllroy, Geo. Armstrong ; those two last men had carts*
A. Yes.

Q. Henry Oster, Toomey, Harry Hand, Bill Hufiman ?
A. He had a very few days.

Q. He was working the first two weeks ?

A. But not during the whole of the two weeks 1

Q. John Waters, Dick Drew ?

A. Dick Drew was there the second week.

Q. Have you any other names you can give me ?
A. Not that I know of.

Q, You paid over $200, did you.

A. No ; I don't know as to that. I didn't pay more.

Q. Did you owe them more?

A. No ; I paid them up the full amount the first two weeks.

Q I figured up altogether that you have paid over $225 ?

A, Oh, you know a lawyer will figure up a big bill almost any time. If I have my
books I'll show exactly how much I paid.

Q. Mr. Noxon says you have only handed in $128 worth of work ?

A. That's the time Mr. Noxon instructed me to send their time in, and the bursar
paid them after I had paid out that first time.

Q. How many weeks were these men employed ?

A. I am not sure as to that. I think it was more than six weeks we were there.
Some weeks we didn't do anything.

Q. They started on Monday the 4th October 1

A. I can't swear to that, but I think somewhere about that time. My book will tell
you.

270

<61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. And they quit about two weeks ago. As a matter of fact they did start about
Monday the 4th October ?

A. I think some men did . There were only two or three men there the first day.

Q. And when did they quit ? That is an easy question.
A. I think about five or six weeks ago.

Q. Now, was it five or six weeks ago 1

A. You had better let me show my books ?

Q Just recently they quit 1

A. Before the holidays some time.

<J And the hole is not half filled ?
A. It is almost completely filled.

<3. Are you prepared to swear that ?
A Yes ; I am prepared to swear that.

Q. Are you prepared to say that it is completely filled 1

A. No ; but almost. We calculated that two or three days more would have filled it-

Q. Is there water on part of the surface of that lot yet 1
A. There may be some little holes.

Q. As a matter of fact, there's a corner that has not been touched yet, where the
"water is deep 1

A. Not eo deep.

Q. About how much money had been expended on the work of filling that hole ?
A. Between $300 and $400. I think it's between $350 and $400.

Q. And there will be more ?
A. No more.

Q. Only $128 appears in the Public Accounts'?

A. I don't know anything about the Public Accounts. I am not swearing to that,
$>ut to the money that I paid out.

Q. So that if the accounts show that only $128 have been paid in 1897 for the filling
of that hole, then some other Public Accounts will have to show the balance 1

A. They can't possibly appear yet, for I haven't sent in my time for what I paid the
men.

Q. What building are you putting up there now ?

A. We are arranging for some more pens, and concreting the floor and putting up
pens in that addition that we used for a driving shed.

Q. Three more pens ?

A. Four, sir. I found it necessary to get more hogs for using up the food.

271

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What else ?

A. We are not doing anything else just now ?

Q. What about the stable ?

A. We are calculating to put up a stable, but we are not starting on that yet.

Q. How much money will be expended in 1898 on account of construction 1
A. I don't know the exact amount.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. You were there all the time that this hole was being
filled up ?

A. I was ; I managed it.

Q. How many hours did all these men work ?
A. Sometimes ten ; sometimes nine.

Q. Did they do a good day's work there ?

A. If they hadn't I wouldn't have had them there. They did an honest day's work
and put in their time.

Q. You are satisfied that they earned their money.
A. Ask some of the men.

By Mr. GERMAN : — Q. Some days these men were not continually working ?

A. The first two weeks was the only time we had a chance to work steadily without
interference from rain. That's the reason I furnished the money to pay those men,
because I was anxious to get the work done before the rain set in.

Q. The first two weeks you woi ked continually, and yon paid them and sent in a
portion of the time that you had paid 1

A. Not until 1 had paid out $180 or more, and after that I sent the time into the
bursar, who paid them at the Prison.

Q. Had you any reason or object now in holding back this time and not getting the
money ?

A. Nothing more. I felt that the money was safe and I could get at it at any time.

Q, Did you have any instructions to hold this time and not send it in ?

A. I had instructions from the inspector to send them in and get my money.

Q. So that you are not holding it back for the purpose of covering up anything and
keeping the expenditure below what it actually was ?

A. Holding back nothing. I was satisfied I would get my money.

Q. And not to deceive the public ?

A. I couldn't deceive the public, for St. John knew every week what money was
paid out and what was to be paid out. He was there every Saturday afternoon.

By Mr. ST JOHN : — Q. Having paid out that money for those two weeks after the
4th October, why haven't you sent in to the bursar and got your money ?

A. In the first place I neglected it, and for the last while back I couldn't have done
it if I had wanted to do, as I was so busy about this affair.

272

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

JAMBS NOXON, recalled :

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Taking your statement showing the total construction
account to 31st December, 1896, showing a total of $7,020.36, is that a correct statement?

A. No, it is not.

Q. Does it include all the expenses in connection with it to the 31st December,
1896?

A. It may not include all, and yet in some respects it may include more.

Q. You now state that that statement you presented to the House is an incorrect
statement?

A. It is not perfectly correct.

Q. Why do you say that expenses may have been incurred during those years up to
31st December, 1896, that are not included in that statement?

A. Expenditures are in the Public Accounts but in analysing the items from the
Public Accounts I was misled by some of the charges.

(J. Were you misled in 1896 't
A. Yes ; I think I was.

Q. Then if any member of the Government has been stating that that statement is
an accurate statement of the whole account it would not be correct 1

A. No ; the amount is less than shown in that statement.

Q. Why did not the item for registration of the deed, $9.25 appear in that public

statement 1

A. J don't remember seeing it in the Public Accounts.

Q. It is directly contiguous to the $fl,000 purchase money of the lot.

A. That properly in any case would be charged against running expenses.

Q Were the running expenses then not included in that statement 1
A. Not in the construction account.

Q So that when you say $7,020, it did not include the registration of the deed and
that ought to be charged up to running expenses ?

A. It would properly be charged up to running expenses ?

Q. Why were the cost of the car wheels for running down the centre of the building
not put in that statement, — is that running expenses too ?

I A. That would be implements.

Q That car that runs down the centre of the building an implement '!
A. Yes.

Q. Is that included in the $7,020 ?
A. It is included.

Q. Where it appears as a separate item in the Public Accounts ','
A. I know ; I made a statement here as to that. It is included in that $600.
32 J. 273

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) J 897-&

Q. Have you a statement that makes up that $600 1 Is that another species of
analysis 1

A. Yes ; it's an analysis.

Q. 1 now present to you what I just find in the Public Accounts, an account of P.
Mcllroy, dated 19th November, 1896, for repairs to and deepening well at the piggery,
$36.80. Does that appear in your Public Accounts?

A. I think I have $117.50. That possibly may be made up of two accounts. I
don't know. Is the $117.50 in addition to that sum ?

Q. Yes.

A. What accounts are these ? It may be in the industrial accounts as far as I know,
If it is for repairs it should be charged against running expenses.

Q. Oh, no : do you mean to say that deepening the well should be charged up
against running expenses in one case and construction in others 1

A. The original well should be charged to construction and the other to running
expenses.

Q. Are you aware that Pat Mcllroy never dug a foot of the original well 1
A. No ; he did not.

Q. For digging twelve feet diameter and ten feet deep, are yon not aware that yon
paid Pat Mcllroy for this work 1

A. Not for that well ; it is another well ; there are evidently two accounts.

Q. And that account in November was for the deepening of that old well below t
A. That may have been charged to running expenses.

Q, Now, do I understand you to say that that item of $26.80 and several other items
for deepening the well which is charged to construction account, and every other expense
in this institution, should be charged to running expenses and not included 1

A. If it is for repairs, it should be charged to running expenses. I am not able to*
say how that was analysed or whether it went through industries as chargeable for
running expenses or construction.

Q. You are the man that analysed that 1

A. No ; I am not. I made that statement from the Public Accounts and not from
the original accounts.

Q. You made out that statement for the Provincial Secretary from the Public
Accounts, which statement is admittedly incorrect ?

A. The Public Accounts are not incorrect, but the analysis might have been.

Q Your statement that you have produced is admittedly incorrect ?
A. No, in the main it is correct.

Q. But that item of $7,020 is an incorrect statement ?
A. It should be less.

Q. You don't know how much more ?
A. It should be less.

274

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Q. You don't know how much more ?
A. It should be less.

Q. That $26.80 I have now produced to you paid in 1897 is not included in your
statement of expenditure for 1896 ?

A. It might have been in the industrial statement.

Q. Is it there 1
A. It might be.

Q. Well, now, look at it. That's what I want to know. You have a remarkable
manner of bookkeeping, Mr. Noxon.

A. Not at all. If the account is for repairs it should go into running expenses*
There is no doubt about that, but wherever it did go, I can't, of course, say without look-
ing it up.

Q. In your construction account you paid out P. Mcllroy sinking well, $117.50 f
Do you now say, sir, that that account should be taken out of running expenses and
placed in construction ?

A. I am not able to say. It is not included in that account.

P. MCELROY, sworn : —

Examined by Mr. ST. JOHN : Q. You are down h«re in the Public Accounts P.
McElroy, $117.50. Is that correct ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When did you do that work I
A. In July, 1896.

Q. Was that for the upper well ?
A. Yes.

Q. Here's an item of $36.80, dated November 19th, 1896, what is that for?
A. That is for widening the well and deepening it.

Q. What welH
A. The lower well.

Q. Has it anything to do with that $117.50 account 1
A. No, sir.

Q. This was done in November, 1896 ?
A. I think so ; in the fall of 1896.

Q. Were you paid in 1896 for this $36.80 ?

A. No ; I don't think so. It was in April, 1897.

Q. The work was all completed in 1896. You did the work then?
A. The well wasn't finished.

Q. But you did your work 1

A. Yes ; as far as it went at that time. I did the work.

275

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Did you do any work since 1

A. Yes ; it was put down 10 feet more, but I didn't do it. I got a man named
Beers to do it.

Q. Beer's account has nothing to do with that $36.80?
A. No, sir.

Q. And you were paid in 1897 ?

A. Yes, sir ; I am not sure when I was paid. I think it was April, 1897.

Q. In 1897 report you have received for deepening the well at the piggery and
wages $73.80 ? What does that mean?

A. In 1897 ?

Q. In 1897 you received for deepening the well in piggery and wages, $78.80.
Would that include this $36.80 I

A. I can't tell.

Q. If that be the case since Mr. Noxon says that does include, what's this $37 for
that you have earned in 1897 ?

A. I can't tell.

Q. You are credited here with having received $83.60. What is that for ?
A. Well, I was at work filling that hole out there.

Q. Nothing else ?

A. Not that I can remember.

Q. How much money for filling in that hole 1

A. I do not know, because I did not keep track of it.

Q. Why didn't you?

A, I won't answer to that.

Q. Why did'nt you keep track of the money you received for helping to fill up that

hole ?

A. I don't know ; I kept track of it in my head.

Q. Was there any reason for keeping track of it in your head and not putting it
down on paper 'I Give me a fair reason, a fair answer on that, now.

A. I did not put it down because I depended on Mr. Warner to keep the time.

Q. Did Mr Warner give you any instructions with regard to it ?

A. No, sir ; every night Mr. Warner came with his book and put down the time
-we had worked, and I saw it go do^n in his book.

Q. How much money did you receive for filliag 1
A. I can't tell.

Q. $50?

A. Yes ; I received that much.

276

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. $60?

A. Yes ; I guess so.

Q. As a matter of fact, did you receive $70 ?
A. I could hardly tell now.

Q. Tell if you can now ; I don't want you to do more than you are able. Are your
able to tell what you received 1

A. Not without counting it up. The first two weeks I had a horse and cart there..

Q. Commencing the 4th October l\
A. No ; 5th October.

Q. How much the first two weeks ?
A, $17.50.

Q. Tell me all the payments you received.

By Mr. GERMAN : — Q. Did you keep any account of it 1

A. No, sir.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Have you any recollection of the money you received on the
second week ?

A. The second week I got something about $20.

Q. Next week ?
A. $19 and something.

Q. Next week?
A. $16, I think.

Q. Next week?

A. That's all I received.

Q. You at least got about $72.50 1
A. Yes.

Q. This account $73.80 may be just about itt
A. I can't be sure as to that.

Q. There is some odd cents in addition to these sums you have named ?
A. Yes.

Q. This $73 80 would be just the money you got for filling in that hole which you
should have received for work in the fall of 1896 ? How many weeks were you filling* in
that hole ?

A . I can't tell you ; there was a lot of lost time.

Q. When did you quit t

A.. I can't tell you that either. I can't say the time.

Q. How near was the first payment of $20 ?
A. I can't say exactly.

277

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Was it at least $1 8 1

A. I can't swear to it ; I did not keep track of it, but left it to Warner and T saw
that he put down the time.

Q. I was told, McElroy, that you had some difficulty in filling in this hole ? Some-
body told me that your horse and cart and all went down into it, and you had to pull
them out with a rope. Is that true 1

A. Yes ; the horse got down.

Q. And you pulled him out with a rope 1

A. Yes ; but still it was my own fault that he got in.

Q. Was the hole completely filled up ?
A. Not completely.

Q. Was it more than half filled 1
A. Oh, yes, more than half.

Q. You think it is 1
A. Yes sir.

Q. How long have you been a well digger t
A. On and off a long time.

Q. You are familiar with the handling of earth ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q Will that earth sink this spring ; that is, where it has been filled?
A. I can't say that ?

Q. From what you know as an expert, won't that go out of sight next spring I
A. It might settle a little.

Q. It will settle a great deal, won't it ?

A. It is filled up pretty solid ; we kept it up pretty solid.

Q. Then it appears that you knew of no such item as $73.80 ?
A. No, sir.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS :— Q. You say that you received, in 1897, payments at four
different times, as near as you can remember, do you 1

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What work were you doing 1

A. I was working with my horse and cart, partly carting earth into the hole and
filling it in.

Q. Did you put in all the time carting earth to the hole, or did you cart bricks or
anything of that kind 1

A. Certainly. I brought bricks.

Q. What for?

A. For concreting.

278

<61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. What proportion of the time did you put in in connection with something else
and in hauling brick for other purposes ?

A. I could hardly tell.

Q. Did you draw anything besides brick there 1
A. Yes ; I drew cement and sand.

Q. Anything else 1

A. Yes j lime, I think.

•

<^. If you don't remember it, don't say so.

A. Yes ; I did. I hauled lime and brick for the Central Prison.

Q. Were you many days at that ?
A. I was a couple of days.

Q. Well, have you no idea what proportion of this time you were drawing these
other things 1

A. It would be quite a while. I can't just say. I didn't keep my time.

Q. But you are sure that a good deal of the time you were drawing things for the
new building ?

A. Yes ; I am satisfied of that.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. But you drew the brick and lime since you ceased filling the
hole ?

A. Yes we did.

Q. As a matter of fact, you have been drawing cement within the last forty-eight
hours ?

A. No.

Q. This week ?
A. No, sir

<J. Within two weeks 1
A. I don't think so,

Q. Very recently ? You have been drawing some from the subway ?
A. No, sir.

Q. Or from the man next door ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q Just lately ?

A. Not within two weeks or more. I won't swear to the time. This drawing ig
counted in the payment of that money.

Q. Which money ?
A. The $73.

279

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. U 1897-8

Q Then the $73.80 does not form any part or does not include the $36.80 you got
for deepening the well ?

A. No ; it does not.
Mr. NOXON, sworn :

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Tell me, have you the total expenditure on account of the pig
gery for 1897 outside the purchasing and stocking of the pigs? Can you tell me?

A. I find here $31.31, add to that $128.12, and the total amount is $159.43,

Q. Give me now the total amount expended in connection with the piggery outside
the buying of pigs during 1897.

A. I shall have to look up the entire accounts to see what that amount is.

Q. You have already admitted that $256 has been expended that is not in that
amount, and should have been charged against 1897.

A. That occurs in all institutions, owing to the inability of getting all accounts in
before the end of the year.

Q. I am not finding fault with it.

A. You can't get in the last dollar of accounts ontstanding for the year. You will
find accounts in 1897 that were incurred in 1896. It is impossible to get them all in.

Q. That may be. Just make the statement. That's what I want.

Mr. CHART/TON explained that he had given instructions to prepare the accounts as
shown in the Public Accounts for the first ten months only of 1897. If he had known that
the last two months were required also ic perhaps might have been prepared.

Mr. NOXON handed in a statement of the cost of constructing the piggery.

By the CHAIRMAN : — Q. What does that statement embrace.

A. All accounts paid on account of the construction of the piggery from 1894 to the
end of 1896.

Q. That is the one you were asked to prepare 1
A. That is one statement that has been prepared.

Q. Have you a statement from that time on ?
A. It is in the industrial accounts.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. You stated that the whole amount expended in construction
in 1897 is made up of two items, one of $128.12 and the other of $31.31 1

A. Yes.

Q. Taking your journal, page 435, of February, 1897, I find this item : Piggery,
Swansea Forging Company, $10.94; Rathbun Co., $403.52; Herbert Heather, $21.70;
and Ontario Sewer Pipe Co., $1.50. Is that construction account 9

A. That is for the reconstruction of the piggery.

Q. Paid in 1897.
A. Yes.

280

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Is that construction account t

A. It is reconstruction of the piggery after the effects of the cholera.

Q. These total items on page 436, amounting to $437.66, were paid by the Govern-
ment in 1897.

A. Yes.

Q. For work done on the piggery in 1896 ?
A. Yes.

Q. And do not appear in this statement produced 1
A. Rathbun Oo. $403.52 is part of it.

Q. Then it does appear 1
A. Yes.

Q. The item $21.70, Herbert Heather, appears in the Public Accounts of 1897.
A. It is not in this statement.

Q. Then your statement of account is unreliable ?

A. It's simply a question of analysis from the Public Accounts.

Q. The Swansea Co., $10 94, does not appear either '(
A. No.

Q. Your statement is again unreliable to that extent. Is that right 1

A. I presume that if this is charged against running expenses it would of course be
charged against industries. In taking the Public Accounts for it I was not able to dis-
tinguish whether it belonged to capital account or to repair account in every case.

Q. Are you prepared to say how many items appear like that ?

A. I see that some items have been left out that should be in, and that some are
there that should not be.

Q. Is this institution properly a branch of the Central Prison industries 1
A. It is.

Q. Will you explain why you put that under the head of Central Prison and not
Central Prison industries in 1894 and 1895.

A. I don't understand what you mean.

Q. I will make it plain. You say this is properly a Central Prison industry. Why
have you placed it under Central Prison in 1894, and not under industries ?

A. The Central Prison industries are not here at all in 1 894.

Q. Oh, yes ; they are, beautifully here.

A. There was no revenue from Central Prison industries in 1894.

Q. Do you mean to say that 1
A. I think not.

281

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Why was that ?

A. Because the piggery had only got started and there was nothing sold.

Q. So that when the prison industries make a profit you make it industries and
when it doesn't you make it prison 1

A. No. It is Central Prison industries in all cases in operating the piggery.

Q. Why should it not be there, then 1

A. Because until January, 1895, there was nothing sold.

Q. Then in 1895 it ought to be under industry 1
A. The cash received would be.

Q. Well, I point out to you that it is not. It is under Central Prison.
A. This is expenditure on capital. That is not industries at all.

Q. So that do I understand you to say that construction account is capital ?
A. Yes.

Q. And when construction account is capital you place it under Central Prison, and
not under industries ?

A. Yes.

Q. So that the credit balance which has been shown from year to year has had
excluded from it thousands of dollars expended on plant, etc., and in the purchase of
hogs, etc.

A. Hogs are a part of the industries, being a part of the stock which industries
operate.

Q. Taking Central Prison's for a year, there was a debit balance on 31st December,
1895, of $760, included in the Central Prison industries on which a debit balance has
been struck are several items re piggery t

A. Take Warner's expenses.

Q. Now, in striking that debit balance of $760 you have excluded several items on
capital account that yon have had under the heading Central Prison.

A. Let us understand that.

Q. Is that true ; then you can give me an explanation ?
A. They have been very properly excluded.

Q. You have placed it in capital account of Central Prison and have not charged it
up to industries ?

A. Most decidely. I will explain it. If you are carrying on a business, in the first
place yon construct your factory ; that is a charge on your capital expenditure. Then
when you get your factory running you begin to charge to industries. Your profits may
be large or small, without reference to your expenditure on construction account at all,

Q. So that the Central Prison industry, the Humber piggery, you throw the con-
struction account into Central Prison ?

A. The capital expenditure.

282

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. V) 1897-8

Q. Now you have already told me that the registration of that deed should properly
come under current expenses. Why have you placed it under capital account of the
Central Prison ?

A. If it is there, it has been charged there by the officials of the Central Prison.

Q. So that it is wrongly there ?

A. That is a matter of opinion. If I bought property and was presented with a
bill for the registration of the deed, I would very properly charge it to running expenses
and another person might charge it to capital.

Q. Turning now, Mr. Noxon, to the Public Accounts for 1894, 1 find on page 297 :
"Pay lists, wages men employed at piggery, $1,527 67." Is that right?

A. The entry is correct.

Q. You paid then for wages in 1894, $1,527.67 ?
A. Yes.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS. — Q. Was that all on the piggery ?
A. It was not on the building, that is, the whole of it.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. — Q. The Provincial Secretary has stated on the floor of the
House that that item included the item of lumber ; is that so 1

A. That is not as it appears there.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS — Q. This amount that you gave me in the statement of last
June or July, in which you showed figures that the original construction of the piggery,
the building that is now used as the piggery cost about $1,500, a little over, and the land
cost $1,QOO. You gava me that as authentic. Is that correct or not 1

A. It is. Speaking of the building only it is correct. These accounts I could not
lay my hands on then as they were mislaid, and I made the analysis from the Public
Accounts.

Q. In your public statement you said : Cost of piggery and construction of that
piggery, for 1894, the amount is composed of three items, $1,527.67, $107.50 and $65,
making a total of $1,700; that the land cost $1,000, and the total is $2,700. Is that
right?

A. According to my analysis, it is.

Q. Where did you get that $1,527 1

A. I took it out from the Public Accounts.

By Mr. ST. JOHN. —Q. It says " wages, men employed, piggery." Is this construc-
tion account?

A. It simply said piggery. I will take that as it is. As a matter of fact looking
at it and knowing within a few dollars what the piggery cost, I concluded the descrip-
tion in the Public Accounts to be incorrect.

Q. What does it say ?

A. It says " wages, men employed at the piggery."

Q. Why, then, did you put it down as wages on construction account, and including
timber

A. Because I knew the piggery cost between $1,500 and $1,600, and I simply
took the analysis from the Public Accounts.

283

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-&

Q. Then your answer to the Hon. Mr. Davis is an error ?

A. No. The actual cost was between $1,500 and $1,600, including lumber.

Q. Where did you get that $1,527 ?
A. From the Public Accounts,

Q. It says wages there ?
A. I assume it does.

Q. And don't know anything to the contrary 1
A. No ; I do not.

Q. Lumber is not included there 1
A. No.

Q. Shingles are not included there t
A. None of the lumber at all.

Q. How much wages were paid to the men on construction account in 1895 1
A. So far as T can get at it, the men who did the carpenter work got something
less than $700.

Q. And you mean to tell the Committee that you paid $800 to men for feeding
those hogs ¥

A. Not at all. We spent a good deal of money in cleaning up the stumps and in
getting the foundations and in filling for the foundations, and some, I think, was paid
for fencing.

•

Q. That wouldn't be construction account ?
A. Not for the building.

Q. Have you any other explanation ?

A. It is impossible to give it with perfect accuracy.

Q. Give me the first item in your journal, re piggery, page 20, under the heading.
The Piggery. Is that right ?

A. Yes.

Q. I am now asking you your first account in your books re piggery, which is on
page 20 of the journal 1

A. Yes.

Q. And under the head of the piggery you have a total construction account of
1895-96 of $6,873.33. Is that right 1
A. No.

Q. Under the head, Piggery, page 20, you have a total amount of $6,873.33,
A. It's not the correct amount.

Q. That's the amount on the books.
A. Yes.

284

<61 Victoria, Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. The amount you have on the books makes that clear as $6,873.33 ?
A. Yes.

Q. Under the head of Piggery 1

A. Yes.

Q. Is that correct ?
A. It is not correct.

Q. Then your book, with the entries on construction account as it appears on the
Central Prison books, is not correct ?

A. It is not properly in this connection.

Q. Therefore, it is not a proper system of book-keeping ?

A. Yes, the system is all right. There was a mistake in the analysis of the
accounts. The north shop was being repaired at the same time and this account came in
with items against the shop and the piggery, and unless a man was very careful and had
some personal knowledge of them, he was very liable to charge up to the wrong account,
and in this manner the charge of $404 was made against the piggery where it does not
belong.

Q. Where are we going to land ] There may be more of that kind of mistakes 1
A. I dare say there may be, but do not think so.

Q. What was that 8404 ?

A. Wages for men working on the north shop of the Central Prison and also on the
houses at the prison that I spoke of.

Q. How do you know that ?

A. I am told so by the book-keeper.

Q Was that your own personal knowledge, or do you depend on your book-keeper ?
A. Certainly.

Q. The Government depends on you, and you depend on your book-keeper 1
A. Yes, sir. It is almost impossible to get a perfect analysis of thes accounts.

Q. Because you have it mixed up with the other industries ?

A. No ; because an account goes in for lumber and other things and these items
belong to various accounts, and unless a man knows exactly himself about the details he
is very likely to make charges against one account that properly belong to another.
This account was kept by itself as far as the men are capable of doing it.

Q. But the method adopted rendera it impossible to keep a proper record ?

A. It is the proper system, but it is almost impossible to make a classification by
which you can charge exactly every item where it belongs.

Q. Do you mean to say that you could not have it kept separate if it were done by

contract ]

A. It might be more easy to do so.

285

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Why do you not do it by contract then ?
A. Because it is done cheaper the way we do it.

Q. That is, you can do the work cheaper by hiring the men than by letting a con-
tract?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you make that statement 1
A. I do.

Q. Do you make the statement that the Government can do these building opera-
tions cheaper by day labour than it could be done by contract ?

A. I can ; if the work is done under my control.

Q. But there are other Departments. Oan the Government do it cheaper in all
cases ?

A. I can't answer for other Departments. I speak of my own.

Q. You don't favour the principle of tender and contract ?

A. There is no principle in it. We get tenders for our material and furnish our
own labour.

Q. Did you get tenders for lumber ?
A. We did.

Q. Can you show one of the tenders 1
A. I think so.

Q. Have you the tenders of J. B. Smith & Co. and Geo. Gray ?
A. I can produce both.

Q. Did you advertise for these tenders 1

A. No. I sent to the different dealers asking them to quote prices.

Q. You didn't advertise t
A. No.

Q. Js the wages for the north shop included in either of these wage bills for 1894 ?

A. I can't say about the north shop. The new houses, I see, are here, and also the
old hospital.

Q. What you find is that $404, being wages at the north shop, were improperly
charged to this account. Might there not be some mixing up in other accounts of
items that are properly chargeable to the piggery ?

A. Not at all.

Q. How do you explain that ?

A. Some men were working at both places, and there was a confusion as to where
they were working and the time on each job. They left the Prison and went to the pig-
gery and the wages paid them for a time before they had changed to the piggery was all
charged to the piggery instead of a portion of it to the Prison. It would not happen
again because they did not change places of work again.

286

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. I have stated that I was unable to find the exact cost of the construction of the
piggery from the Public Accounts. Is that correct ?

A. I do not think you could from the Public Accounts.

Q Were you able to do so yourself?
A. I think I might approximately.

Q. But you cannot do so yourself. Have you a statement that will show the total
expenditure did not exceed, how much ?

A. $1,600.

Q. Who prepared that statement that the cost was $2,600 which the Provincial
Secretary used when he was at Paris ?

A. It was prepared by myself.

Q. Have you that statement ?
A. I have not.

Q. Mr. Davis had a statement he used in Paris and he told me that you prepared
it for him. Is that correct ?

A. Certainly.

Q. He got that from you t
A. Yes.

Q. And he depended on you for that statement ?
A. Certainly.

Q. And is that any more correct than the one you handed to me 1
A. I say that for the piggery the statement is substantially correct.

Q. Turn now to page 327 and 328 in the Public Accounts for 1895, where you
particularize the cost of construction. There are several items appearing under Central
Prison ?

A. Yes.

Q. The first item you have is George Gray, $854.82, lumber, for which the Public
Accounts show no reference to piggery 1

A. That is what it was for.

Q. Never mind ; answer my question. The Public Accounts do not show any
relation to the piggery in this item ?
A. They do not.

Q. So tha 1 would appear to anybody else that it was part of the Central Prison
building ? The next item is the Gurney Foundry Co. for castings, $30. Is that correct 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. We have eight items consecutively for castings under the head of Central Prison
that year?

A. Yes.

287

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You have picked out two of them as for the piggery ?
A. Yes.

Q. And the remaining six are for something else 1
A. Yes.

Q. But they are all Central Prison ?
A. All Prison.

Q. And you have no ear marking for the piggery ?

A. Not any more than for the north shop, the dwelling houses, the hospital or any-
thing else.

Q. To be brief about it, that was the method adopted throughout as appears in the
Public Accounts for 1895 ?

A. As far as the accounts are concerned.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS :— Q. This filling in that has been done reoently in the piggery
in connection with that lo w place there is to be charged to the profits of the piggery, is it ?
A. Yes.

Q. And to be paid out of the running expenses 1
A. Yes.

Q. And it has been charged to running expenses ?
A. Certainly.

Q. You say that that statement which you made which you have in your hands,
showing the total cost of the piggery and also of the land, and the wagons a ad everything
in connection with ifc to be $7,020 ; that although there are some accounts in there that
should not be, and some not in there that should be, that the result of it all is that the
total is too high ?

A. Yes, the total is too high.

Q. You are sure of that 1
A. Yes.

Q. About how much too high ?
A. $500 or $600.

Q. So that, in that statement you are not trying to make it smaller than it ought to
be?

A. Certainly not. The correct sum is $6,378.80, which, however, includes some
part of the reconstruction after the cholera.

Q. That is as near as you can tell. That is right ?
A. Yes.

288

31 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 189T-&

13th January, 1898.
ROBERT OSTER, sworn :

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. Do you know Thomas Whitehead ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did he work at the killing of the pigs at the piggery ?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you there 1
A. Yes, sir.

Q. When he was there?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many days was he working while you were there ?
A. Two days, sir.

Q. You are sure of that ?
A, Yes, sir.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Have you anything outside your recollection, anything to/
prove that he was there on the second day ?

A. Yes.

Q. What is it?

A. Because I was there in the morning and he was in there beside the fire.

Q. What have you beside your recollection, any memoranda ?
A. No.

Q. Any proof except your memory ?
A. No.

Q. You believe he was there on the second day ?
A. I am sure of it.

By. Hon. Mr. HARCOURT :— Q. You simply know it, that's all 1
A. I know it.

HENRY OSTER, sworn :

By the CHAIRMAN : — Q. Were you at the Humber piggery at the time of the killing
of the hogs ?

A. I was.

Q. How long were you there ?
A. I was there two days.

Q. Do you know Thomas Whitehead ?
A. Yes.

33 J. 289

<61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Was he there one or two days 1
A. He was there two days.

Q. Is that your recollection of it 1
A. It is.

Q. Have you memoranda or notes of it ?

A. No ; he helped me to draw the pigs away on the second day up to where they
got scalded. That's the way I can remember it.

fsAiAH WARNER, recalled :—

By Mr. St. JOHN : — Q. Have you got a memorandum showing all the moneys paid
out for filling in at the piggery during the fall of 1897 ?

A. Yep, sir ; I have the time of these men and the money I paid out.

Q. Does the memorandum show all the money that has been paid out for filling the
hole?

A. I can't say as to that, but all the money that I paid out.

Q You can't say as to that ? This memorandum that you produce — you can't say
that it shows all the moneys paid out for filling in the hole ?

A. It shows all the money I paid out and all the time I sent in feo the Central Prison.

Q. Kindly answer my question.

A. I can't say whether the bursar has paid out all the money or not.

Q. Can you give me all the money that has been paid out for filling in that hole ?
A . I can give you all the time.

Q. How much money altogether has been earned by employees, directly and indirec-
tly, in connection with that hole ?

A. If you will let me read it over to you I will give it to you in detail.

Q You should have figured it out yourself.

A. I can't sit up all night after working; all day. If you will take it down, I will
read it to you. Henry Oster began work on October 4th and was paid $12.80 ; Edward
Tomie, $11,74 ; Andrew Beetle, $12.24 ; John Waters, $12.87 ; Morris Tomie, $9.74 ;
Patrick Boland, $10.12 ; Patrick Mcllroy, $17 80 ; Geo. Armstrong, $12.42 ; Hy Henty,
$5.62 ; Geo. Simpson, $10.12 ; Thos. Greenfields, $8.62 ; Robt. Drew, $5 ; Wm. Huffman,
$4.88; Alex. McPherson $3.62 ; Thos. Whttehead, $5 50 ; Jos. Rash

Q. Wait a moment. These items you have now given me include the first two weeks 1
A. The tocal of the first two weeks.

Q The next two weeks 1

A. I will give you the balance of the time. Jos. Rush, $21 60 and $7 30 ; Jno.
Waters, $1233; Hy Oster, $11 and $112.22; Robt. Jackson, $1238 and $12.96;
Robt. Wilkins, $9.87 and $9.63 , Edw. Cooney, $12.25 and $13 93 ; Edw. Cahill,$12 38
and $12 42; Thos. Toomie, $10.87 and $11.60; Patrick Mcllroy, $20.80 and $5.30;
Rbot, Henry, $4 87 and $12.52 ; Edw. Oahill, $11.87 ; Pat, Mcllroy, $16,20, making a
total sum of $252.25.

290

Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q No more money than that ?

A. No more money than that. There was about $25 of that that should be charged
to some work at the building that the men were put on later, but this is the total work
done.

Q. You have given me a total of $396.24. All the work that has been performed
there tince the work started

A. There is some of this work that should be chargeable to other work than filling in.

Q That has been all paid out during 1897 ?
A. Some of this time, understand me now

Q. Answer my question. Has that all been paid out in 1897 1
A. I can't say whether it's paid or not.

Q. Can't you tell me whether it has been paid ?

A. I can't say, but I sent in the men's time to the bursar. I don't know whether
they're paid or not. This includes all the money I paid out myself.

Q. Have you only paid out $143 09 ?

A. No, I think there's some $20 that Mcllroy had.
Q. Is that all the money you paid oat 1

A. 1 think it is,

Q. Then you only paid out $163 89 ?
A. Something in that neighborhood.

Q. And all the balance of the accounts have been sent to the bursar 1

A. Well, 1 gave the men their time to go there, but whether they have gone theie
•or not, I don't know, I can't say.

Q Are you prepared to say that they were not paid 1

A. No.

Q. Do you know of any man that is not paid 1
A. I do not. It's not my business.

Q. So that if the Government have paid the balance, they should have paid $222.40 ?
A. Some of this time was sent in later on, you know.

Q. Have you receipts from the men that you paid in each case ?

A 1 have from the men I paid money to. I took down a note. On October 23rd,
I paid Hy. Oster $12.87.

Q Then between October 16th and 23rd 1897 you made that personal payment of
$143?

A. Yes, in the neighborhood of that amount.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. You were asked to send your accounts in t
A. I was not only asked, but I was instructed by the inspector to do so

Q Are you flush of money, so that you can let that go on for so many months 1
A. I am not so anxious about it as though it was in some other place.

291

61 'Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Mr. JAMES NOXON, recalled : —

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Referring to the construction account, your books show-
only entries to 31st December, 1896 1

A. Yes, sir ; on construction account.

Q. Amounting in all to $6,783.33, of which $404 53 is improperly included in thai
account ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are you now prepared to state the exact amount that should be put in construc-
tion account, and which did not appear in the book ?

A. Everything in that account is correct with the exception of the over charge with
reference to work done at the Central Prison and a further sum of $67 and some odd cents
that should also be added to the amount chargeable to the Oentral Prison.

Q. So that to make it right you would have to deduct one item from the construction
account and add another 1

A. No ; you have to deduct two amounts.

Q. And these amounts refer to wages ?
A. Yes.

Q. That should have been charged to Prison industries 1
A. Yes.

Q. Are you prepared to say now that there are not accounts for wages in the Oentral
Prison accounts for other Departments, charged up to them, that should have been
inserted here?

A. Everything since 1896 has been charged to Oentral Prison industries.

Q. Up to 31st December, 1896, are you prepared to swear that there are no wages,
which may be charged to other portions of the Prison industries and that should have
been included in this statement 1

A. You are speaking up to 31st December ? There is nothing for wages prior to
31st December, 1896, that is not included in this account. The statement I make is
this, that there are no wages chargeable to construction account that are not included in
this account up to 31st December, 1896.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. That is, deducting these two amounts, the balance is the
correct amount 1

A. All that is chargeable — properly chargeable — against the original account for
construction.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. You say that $404 is improperly charged here. Are you
prepared to swear that there are not wages charged up to other accounts that should be
charged here.

A. Everything chargeable to construction in respect of wages up to the 31st Decem-
ber, 1896, is charged in this account.

Q. You have not answered my question at all. It is a simple one. Are you
prepared to swear that there have not been wages properly chargeable to the piggery
account that have been charged to other Central Prison industries ?

A. There are just the two items.

292

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Have you got wages that have been included on account of work done outside
the piggery, in some other branch of the industries, that are not properly chargeable to
piggery account?

A. These two amounts, of course.

Q. These have nothing to do with it.

A. I want to just understand your question.

Q. Are there wages, I asked you, charged up to other industrial accounts in con-
nection with the piggery that are not charged here ?

A. If it is work for the piggery, it should not go there, of course. You say, are
there amounts charged up against other industries not properly chargeable, that should
be charged here ? I said this, that everything chargeable against wages on account of
construction prior to December, 1896, is in this account, and nothing more.

Q. Do you think you have answered my question ?
A. Yes; I do.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. Have you charged to north shop, for instance, any amounts
that should be charged to the piggery ?

A. No ; you take these items for wages I refer to. They are the only items, the
two items of wages, charged against the piggery that are properly chargeable against the
heating system and the new houses at the Central Prison. %

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. Just turn it up side down and answer the reverse way : Are
there wages earned and paid out which have been charged to other accounts than piggery
that should be charged here ?

A. That's what my reply refers to. These two sums are charged out of place ; there
is nothing that has been charged to other accounts that should be charged here.

Q. Are you prepared to swear that there are no wages charged to other accounts, or
that all the wages that have been earned on construction account at the piggery are
charged here 1

A Yes ; all prior to 31st December, 1896.

Q. Did you examine the accounts with that in view 1

A. I examined the accounts in order that there would be a more careful analysis
made of the wages account

Q. Did you examine other accounts in order to find out whether there might be some
other items that should be charged to the piggery 1

A. No ; I did not.

Q. Therefore you are now speaking from your memory ?
A. No ; from the books.

Q. Did you not examine into some of the accounts of the other institutions ]
A. No.

•Q. You didn't examine into them at all ?

A. I am depending on the accounts charged against the piggery.

293

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. Are you prepared to swear that the other accounts with respect to Central i'rison
industries are more correct than this account ?

A. There may be discrepancies in this way. We get an account, say for hardware,
in which there are items which are chargeable perhaps to each one of the nine depart-
ments, and, in order to make the correct charge against all these departments, you have
to work out the accounts. We do the best we can, and we try to be measurably correct.
It makes no substantial difference which individual account an item is charged to, even
if there should be a mistake in analysing, as it all goes against Central Prison expenditure.

Q. So that when you are answering my question you are not answering it from your
own personal knowledge on inspection 1

A. I am swearing of the accounts as they appear in the books and speaking of the
accounts generally. I find that on going through these accounts there are some cases
where I know the classification was wrong but my personal knowledge enabled me to
correct it.

Q. Show me some of the amounts comprised in the account of wages of $1,527.67
in the Public Accounts of 1894, page 296.

A. When I made that statement I was unable to find the accounts of 1894 and 1895.
These accounts had been produced to the Committee at former sessions and were mislaid
when returned, and it was only within the last few days that some of them have been
found mixed up with 1893 accounts. We never thought to go further back than 1894 to
look for them.

By Mr. MACNISH : — Q. The Committee are to understand, then, that you did not
have the accounts for 1894 before you when you made out that statement ?

A. No. I simply had to take the Public Accounts for 1894 for it.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : — Q. How long were you preparing that account up to August
31st, 1897?

A. Not very long ; about a day.

Q. Was that just before the 31st August 1

A. it was about that day. It must have been a day or two before.

Q. Who gave you instructions to prepare the account 1
A. The Provincial Treasurer.

Q. Didn't the Provincial Secretary give you instructions before that ?
A. I had instructions quite early in the month.

Q. Why didn't you prepare it then 1

A. Simply because I had other work to do.

Q. The Provincial Secretary had promised it to me earlier. Why didn't you make
it out when first asked for ?

A. I had other work to do.

Q. What other work ?

A, By referring to my diary I could show what I was doing. Don't know just now
what it was. In the first place, I tried to find these accounts and could not, and that
caused some delay.

294

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1 897-8-

Q. You can't give me the items making up this account without reference to the
individual accounts ?

A. No.

Q. And in the Public Accounts the items of construction, as well as the items ot
current expenses, are all mixed up with Central Prison and Central Prison industries ?

A. No ; they are in two separate accounts in the Public Accounts, under the head
of public buildings; all expanditare on CDastructioa or capital account is entered under
the Central Prison industries ; there is nothing except what has been charged to industries.

Q. Is it not under the heading, Central Prison, Public Buildings ?

A. I am simply saying that in the Public Accounts under the heading Expenditure
Public Buildings, the Central Prison is shown to have expended so much on construction.

Q. Does it show that you expended so much on the piggery ?
A. It shows the total but does not give the details.

Mr. GERMAN : — I think that can be admitted.

By Mr. ST JOHN : — Q. Why don't you admit that, Mr. Noxon1?

A. Simply because it's impossible. We have expenditures here extening over nearly
all the departments of the Central Prison.

Q. Is there anything in the Public Accounts for 1894, under construction account,
in Central Prison, public buildings, that shows anything on aceount of piggery 1

A. Nothing except wages. I am going to explain the reason of it. These accounts
come in and may contain items for the piggery and also for new houses at the Prison.
We could not then show in the Public Accounts which belongs to the houses or which
belongs to the piggery. If this were done then there would, without dividing the amount
of the accounts, nob be a separate voucher for each separate amount in the Public
Accounts, and this would create confusion.

Q. That is ; it's all mixed up ?
A. No ; it's not mixed up.

Q. The construction is all mixed up with the other accounts ?
A. It must necessarily be BO.

Q You haven't dealt with it as a separate matter, but as a Central Prison industry I

A. The Central Prison is a unit. It is divided into these various departments,
which makes the total expenditure. It is not shown separately in the Public Accounts
because if it was set out separately the total payments to each individual would not be
shown in any one account; and no separate voucher to correspond with any stated
amount.

Q. So that when you give the statement to the public that the construction account
of the main building proper was $1,527.67 it was wholly incorrect ?

A. Not wholly incorrect. In the absence of the accounts it was impossible to
secure perfect accuracy.

Q. Now listen ; you were wholly incorrect in taking out those particular items on.
construction account ?

A. Taking that item just as it stands there, it is.

295

<61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. It's entirely wrong 1
A. No, it is not.

Q. You had no right to take that account 1
A. Yes.

Q. And take it as a construction account ?
A. Yes ; its counted here.

•Q. Was that just properly chargeable to construction account, $1,527?

A. There's no doubt about that ; less the true amount that should be deducted.

<J. And then you left out the material entirely ?
A. I have the material here.

Q. But the material is not in that 'I
A. I will submit a statement.

Q. Then in addition to $1,527, you have to add something for material in order to
iiave the original cost ''

A. Yes, but it included it.

Q. How much is to be added for material 1

A. The total expenditure on construction account is $5,930.12 for construction

proper. That is in reference to the construction of the piggery and not the restoration of
it.

Q. How much for the lard ]
A. The land cost $1,000.

Q. How much for the material 1

A. Perhaps I had better give the whole statement as I have it here.

By Hon. Mr. DAVIS : — Q. What are you giving ; the cost of original construction ?
A. Yes.

Q. And the land ?
A. Yes.

By Mr, ST. J OHN : — Q. I want you to give me the original cost of construction. You
are not going to dodge that 1

A. The material is $627 ; hardwood, $55.55 ; glass and paint, $10.21 ; tinsmith
work, $25.66 ; carpenter's work and labor, $843.95.

Q. Then the original construction by your statement now is, how much ?
A. Just wait for a moment now until I get this correct.

Q. Well, I'll take your word for it.

A. Just give me a chance for working it out.

296

<61 Victoria.

Appendix (No. 1.)

1897-8

By Mr. STRATTON : — Q. I understand that there arc some items in that 81,800 that
are not properly charged to the construction of the building ?

A. Yes; that is so. Now, if you will allow me I'll give you tho amount of the
original building. I make it $1,561 as against $1,527.

By Mr. ST JOHN : — Q. How much wages were paid out on construction of the
original building 1

A. $837.95.

Q. How much 1
A. $837.95.

Q. Why did you say $1,850 a little while ago ?

A. That was on the house and other work ; I'm speaking now of the construction
account, piggery.

Q. Where did you get the figures that you are now giving 1
A. I got these figures by going over the time book.

By the CHAIRMAN : — Have you made out a statement of the original cost ?
A. I have.

Q. Is this it?

A. Yes j that's it.

Q. Read your statement.

Mr. JNoxoN then read the following statement :

COST OF PIGGERY, BUILDINGS AND CARETAKER'S HOUSE— ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION.

$627 00

Hardware, including tar paper

55 55

Glass and paint ...

10 21

Tinsmith work

25 66

Carpenter's work and labor

842 90

1 561 42

One acre of land cost

1,000 00

Cost of land and building complete .... $2 561 42

Lumber for house of caretaker, per contract

370 00

Hardware

41 43

Glass and paint

22 09

30 08

Time

37 84

Plastering

63 00

Painting

35 00

Carpenter and mason work and labor. . ,

524 80

1,123 65

297

61 Victoria.

Appendix (No. 1.)

1897-S

32 80

Labor sinking well, laying pipe, clearing land of brush and stumps,
making roadway and levelling lot

500 00

532 80

Cost of land and piggery as first occupied, and caretaker's house. $4, 216. 87

There has been expended for tanks on trucks to hold feed, a span of
horses, wagon, sleigh, harness, horse covers, furnace, cans for
hauling feed, water tank, hose and hand tools, forming working

566 6S

Total first cost of land, builiings and plant, equipped for work. $4, 78 4. 50

Subsequently there has been expended for lumber and cedar posts for
outside pens in yard, high board fencing aiound lot, foundation
to windmill and water tank including hardware

439 96

For windmill

166 50

Work in connection with above use of lumber and filling in and levelling
lot as masonry for the work, and also including cleaning and dis-
infecting the premises after the cholera

987 84

1 594 30

$6,378 80

The entry on page 297, public accounts, 1894, " Wages, men employed on piggery, $1,527.67," includes
wages paid men working on buildings at Central Prison, being an error in classifying the accounts.

This amount also includes some portion of the work both on building and lot.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : Q. How does thao differ from the statement which you handed to
the Provincial Secretary 1

A. The statement 1 have here —

Q. No, no ; the original statement, making up the $1,527 which the Hon. Minister
used at Paris.

Hon. Mr. DAVIS : A. I have it in my office. It was $2,560 odd for land and
building.

By Mr. ST. JOHN : Q The whole thing is a discrepancy. Your statement now
includes certain figures you have been putting on since you are being examined. Isn't
that so ?

A. I am making the additions and deductions where they should be made.

Q. How much money in the way of repairs done in various ways in connection with
that piggery have you now placed under construction account and not current expenses 1

A. All repairs were placed under running expenses.

Q. And therefore do not come under construction account ?
A. Not properly.

Q. What's the probable estimate of the expenses you are now incurring in putting;
up an outside building and asphalting, etc., and extension you are building now 1

A. Probably $150 or $160 in adding new pens.

Q. For putting up a building 1

A. We're not putting up a building.

298

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

Q. You have dropped the stable 1

A, Not at all ; we are not putting up a stable, we had to increase the number of
pens in order to have enough hogs to consume the food.

By Mr. GERMAN : Q. How many industries are there in connection with the Central
Prison ?

A. I think there are either 9 or 10.

Q. And for construction account in all these industries the charges are all kept
under Central Prison account?

A. Certainly.

Q. Now, you distinguish in the different industries as to the receipts and the expen-
diture on account of running expenses to show the profits you make in each in order to
discover what each industry will bring ?

A. The bursar of the Central Prison keeps an account with each department.

Q. You open a debit and credit account with each industry 1 Bub the Public
Accounts show everything under Central Prison industries account 1

A. Yes, sir; it is just simply a matter of internal arrangement to keep track of what
the various industries are doing.

Q This pencil memorandum, Mr.Noxon, which you have here is a corrected statement
of the expenses in connection with the original construction of the piggery and house 1

A. Yes.

Q. What is the difference in the amount between the pencil memorandum and the
statement which you formerly handed to the Provincial Secretary ?

A. It is

Q. The difference is $45 1

A. On the piggery and the house.

Q. So that the statment which you handed the Provincial Secretary some time ago
shows an expenditure of $45 more than the actual expenditure is 1

A. Yes.

By Mr. ST, JOHN : Q. And you made the last statement out yesterday ?
A. Yes.

Q. Did you go over every account ?
A. Yes. I did.

Q. Are yon aware that several of the accounts were by mistake in my desk last
night? Are you aware that I had some of the accounts of 1896 in my desk all last
night?

A. I had some accounts brought to me in my room yesterday afternoon. You had
the accounts of 1897 only.

Q. Who brought them to your rooms ?

A. I don't know who it was. It was a messenger brought them to me.

299

INDEX

APPENDIX No. 1

A CCOUNTS, PUBLIC :

Report of Oommittee thereon, 5 ; minutes and proceedings, 7 ; Chairman of, 8 ;
meetings of, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 ; Evidence before, 16 to 299.

UNN, FREDEEICK, Poultry Dealer: sworn, 119; his experience re hog cholera,
120 ; held the hogs for Newton, 121 ; some hogs dressed and burned, 122 ; no
hog killed and dressed that was sound, 123 ; many spotted ones sent to cold
storage, and spotted meat cut out, 124, 125 ; recalled, 125 ; all of the hogs
diseased, 127 ; experience in Etobicoke, 132; purple spots, 136 ; dressed hogs
burned, 139 ; Hunter there, 141 ; saw Mr. St. John, 142 ; copy of statement
made to him, 146.

TjlEATHERSTONE, JOSEPH: sworn, 250; had considerable experience re hog
cholera at the World's Fair, Chicago, 250 ; 75 per cent, of sick hogs sent horn?
" well and hearty " ; had lost 50 per cent, of another herd ; removed balance
and saved them, 251 ; cannot save those having disease very bad, 253.

HARRIS, W. T.f sworn : Wholesale Pork Dealer, 52 ; bought 97 bogs from cold
storage ; their condition, 53.

HUNTER, ROBERT, Inspector of Cattle : sworn, 74 ; engaged Fred. Newton to kill dis-
eased hogs ; ordered them to be burned, 75 ; present at inspection of hogs by
Professor Sweetapple, 76 ; sold hogs to Mr. Harris, 76 ; everything done under
Professor Smith's instructions, 77 ; no chops or chunks cut out of hogs sent
to cold storage, 78 ; position of Mr. Harris, 79.

OORE, CHARLES, Butcher ab Central Prison : sworn, delivery of hogs commenced
13th July, continued two days, 196 ; hogs inspected by Dr Sweetapple, 197 ;
further inspection by Dr. Sweetapple and Mr. Hunter, 198 ; all examined by
Mr. Hunter, 199 . took weight of th^m, 200 ; examined hogs closely, as did
Mr. Sweetapple, 205 ; recalled, weight of hogs, 229, 236 ; helped Dr. Sweet-
apple to examine hogs, 233 ; Dr. Sweetapple's visits, 235.

301

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

McKlNNON, NEIL, Assistant Butcher, Central Prison, July, 1896 : described cold storage
building, 221 ; light enough for thorough inspection ; Dr. Sweetapple made
inspection ; a few spots on some pigs, 223 ; would not say they were caused
by disease, 224 ; Newton dissatisfied with his remuneration, 225 ; going to Brad-
ford, 226 ; Dr. Sweetapple inspected, 227 ; Newton aggressive, 228 ; helped to
unload last lot of hogs, 229.

MCELROY, P., sworn : labor at well, 273 ; filling hole, 274 ; hauling lime, 277.

"T^TBWTON, FREDERICK, Butcher : sworn, 30 ; employed by Robert Hunter to kill
-lAl hogs, 31 ; some hogs unhealthy, 34 ; cut out purple spots, 36 ; gouged jaws,

37 ; described spots, 39 ; conversation with Hunter, 40 ; recalled, 87 ; number
of hogs killed, 91 ; took off strips of meat from belly and chunks from neck ;
not a single sound hog, 92 ; Warner whispered, 95 ; thought hogs might have
been killed and dressed for soap grease but not for food, 95 ; interview with
McKinnon about Bradford, 97 : interview with Mr. St. John, 101 ; other inter-
views, 102 ; number of hogs, 104 ; Harris would not buy diseased meat, 110;
interview with Bradford 112; brother went to see Mr. St. John, 114; who
Henderson is, 114 ; McKinnon said there was money in it, 116 ; spots on the
backs of the hogs, 118.

NEWTON, WILLIAM : sworn, 179 ; hauled pigs to Central Prison, 180; all oft color, 181 ;
spotted, 182 ; the color of the "lights," 184; some hogs in the herd fit for
food, 186 ; interviewed by Mr. St. John, 187 ; saw Mr. McKinnon, 188.

NOXON, JAMES, Inspector : sworn, 20 ; in re Humber piggery outbreak of hog cholera,
21 ; Warner in charge, 23 ; inspection by Dr.^Hurd and Professors Smith and
Sweetapple, 24 ; Hunter directed to kill, 28 ; dressed hogs sold by Hunter, 29 ;
diseased hogs burned, 30 ; recalled, 253 ; accounts of construction of piggery,
254 ; statement of cost prepared for Public Accounts, 255 ; money expended in
filling hole, 257 ; Central Prison industries, 260 ; recalled, 263 ; laborers at pig-
gery paid by Bursar Central Prison, 263 ; drainage at piggery, 266 ; recalled,
amount of cost overstated, 271 ; Public Accounts, 272 ; recalled, 290 ; construc-
tion account, 290; preparation of statement of Provincial Secretary, 292;
details of cost of piggery, 295 ; Prison industries, 297.

STER, HENRY : sworn, worked at pig killing, saw Thomas Whitehead there two
days, 287.

OSTER, ROBERT : sworn, worked at killing of pigs, saw Thomas Whitehead there two
days, 287.

MITH, PROFESSOR ANDREW, Dominion Inspector : sworn, 41 ; condition of
hoge, 42 ; ordered sound hogs to be killed, dressed and sent to cold storage,
Central Prison, 43 ; copy of report to Mr. Noxon, 44 ; all ordered to be killed
because of danger of infection, 47 ; assumed responsibility of inspection of dead
hogs by Prof. Sweetapple, 49 ; knew of hogs killed elsewhere and used for
human food, 51.

SMITH, THOMAS : sworn, present at pig killing, 174 ; thought two hogs sent to cold
storage " not right," 175 ; none stuck unless alive, 176 ; entrails red, and meat
" soft and slobby," 177 ; Warner careful as to quality of hogs sent to cold stor-
age, 178.

SPROULE, C. H., Provincial Auditor : sworn, 16 ; travelling expenses Inspector Chamber-
lain, 16.

302

61 Victoria. Appendix (No. 1.) 1897-8

43WEETAPPLE, PROF. 0. H. : sworn, 55 ; acted as inspector under Prof. Smith, 56 ; made
post-mortem two hogs July llth, instructions given for destruction of whole
herd, 56 ; examined those in cold storage, 57 ; prepared report for Ontario
Government, 60 ; inspection of dead hogs in cold storage 62 ; perfectly sound,
66 ; character of inspection, 68 ; report afier inspection, 73 ; recalled, descrip-
tion of hog cholera, 208 ; visited cold storage, 209 ; recalled, 237 ; Dominion
Government regulations, 237 ; first visit to Central Prison, 238 ; signs of dis-
ease, 240 ; rigor mortis, 243 ; condition of intestines, 244 ; kill all, but do not
destroy all, 245 ; post mortem a proper test, 248.

ARNER, ISAIAH, Caretaker at Piggery : sworn, 147 ; first symptoms of disease,
148; saw Inspector Noxon, inspection of Prof. Smith and Sweetapple, 149;
instructions to kill, 150; Newton engaged, whispers to opposite sex only, 151 ;
did not see any cutting out, 152 ; many hogs burned, 153 ; ordered all infected
hogs to be put on fire, 155 ; one hog saved and still living, 156 ; Dr, Smith's
inspection, 159 ; purchases of pigs, 161; deaths, 163; hogs refused food, 164;
hogs burned, 165; contradicts Newton and Dunn, 168; did not notice pieces
cut out of hogs, 169 ; hogs sound when sent to cold storage, 170 ; examined all
sent, 173 ; recalled, 267 ; paying laborers at piggery, 267 ; filling the hole,
269 ; recalled, cost of piggery, 278 ; Public Accounts, 283 ; running expenses,
286 ; recalled, sums paid out for filling hole, 288.

WHITEHEAD, THOMAS: sworn, assisted in killing pigs, 191; evidence of Newton and
Dunn pretty nearly correct, 192 ; one hog sent away not fit for food, 193 ; hogs
very weak, 195; many hogs blotched, 196; recalled, 209; several diseased
hogs loaded on wagon, 210; pigs with sore feet pat on fire when killed, 211 ;
heard a week before killing that hogs were diseased, 213; gave statement to
Mr. St. John, Warner directed proceedings, 215 ; was paid for one day's work,
216 ; did not see chunks cut out of more than one pis:, 218 ; said diseased pigs
were all burned, 219 ; saw pieces cut out of one pig, 220.

WILLIAMS, FREDERICK : sworn, acted as shipping clerk at Central Prison, Public Accounts
re cost of piggery, 261.

303

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