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Poster:	BryanE	Date:	Aug 20, 2007 8:22pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	No, Really . . .

I was going to start a thread comparing Grateful Dead music to a fine wine that improves with age, then I open up the forum page and find the "Some wines don't age so well" thread started by billydlions.

Weird.

So anyway, it's something my brother said during the drive home from Kiel Auditorium on 7/8/81. All of us in the car were absolutely crazed about what a killer hot show it was, when he brought the raving down to a quiet hum to make the observation, "I say The Grateful Dead are like a fine wine that improves with age. Give them another five years."

Whether his statement proved true is not the point of my inquiry and is the matter of a different discussion. I'm basically asking the opposite question of what billyd asked. What song(s) do you think evolved and improved with age most noticeably? Around & Around is the one that started me thinking about it. When Weir and the Dead first started performing it, he took sort of a "too much of everything is just enough" approach, pushing really hard on just about every line while the band hammered away behind him for all it was worth. By the time it was being used as the show closer circa '94-'95, though, they had dusted it off and reworked the arrangement for maybe the fourth or fifth time since its inception as part of the repertoire. New life was breathed once again into the old Chuck Berry warhorse, only by this time around, and around, they brought to it a finesse and a sophistication that younger players can only hope to attain. Jagger said "It's only rock and roll," but in the hands of an older, wiser Grateful Dead, the thing wound up sounding downright classy.

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Poster:	billydlions	Date:	Aug 21, 2007 4:31am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: No, Really . . .

Pretty wierd that you were thinking about fine wine too Bryan. By the way, let me introduce myself. My real name is Brian E.

No kidding.

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Poster:	BryanE	Date:	Aug 21, 2007 6:35am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: No, Really . . .

Pleased to make your acquaintance. Got a feather you can knock me over with?

Very weird.

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Poster:	Cliff Hucker	Date:	Aug 21, 2007 7:43am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: China Cat & Chateau Margaux? .

Liam asked this same question about 6 months ago, my answer is China Cat Sunflower/I Know You Rider:

Like a First Growth Bordeaux, the song was "accessible" but too youthful and tannic early in its life (1968-1971).

China Cat, and particularly the segue into Rider started "opening up" in 1972.

By 1973 the song has evolved and blossomed into a jazzy masterpiece.

Like a mature First Growth Bordeaux, the song has aged gracefully. Some of the "fruit" may have faded away over the years, but there are still some fantastic old "bottles" around in 1979 and beyond(?)...

Better question might be which shows have seemed to have improved with aging?

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Poster:	sel2ims	Date:	Aug 21, 2007 7:55am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: China Cat & Chateau Margaux? .

so what is the deadspector rating ? Glass or bottle ?

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Poster:	barongsong	Date:	Aug 21, 2007 8:48am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: China Cat & Chateau Margaux? .

I like how Jack Straw turned into a rockin glass of Kansas Barley malt and how Sugeree Phased into a nice Dark Rum on ice through the years.

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Poster:	Max Chorak	Date:	Aug 21, 2007 9:15am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: China Cat & Chateau Margaux? .

The biggest song that aged into even the 90's, is cassidy. Hands down. "AM I WRONG? AM I WRONG?" -Walter Sobchak those who say 5/9/77 had the best cassidy are out of their noggins :]
This post was modified by Max Chorak on 2007-08-21 16:15:35

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Poster:	barongsong	Date:	Aug 21, 2007 9:35am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: China Cat & Chateau Margaux? .

I have a hard time with Bests but I would definatly agree that Cassidy is another song that changed nicely.

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Poster:	Ssag	Date:	Aug 20, 2007 8:29pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: No, Really . . .

Me and My Uncle aged into a better song so did IMHO:
Not Fade Away
Dancin' In The Streets in the late 70's it was it's peak
Loser
Bertha
Mississippi 1/2 Step

to name a few!

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Poster:	shootermcgavin	Date:	Aug 20, 2007 10:23pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: No, Really . . .

well id have to say 1/2 step and NFA are debatable...i would say by 77 1/2 step had aged into the finest of wines.. so for the last 17 yrs i really dont think it got any better then the mammoth performances from that year, but that is easily one of my absolute favorite songs so i constantly listen to versions of it from whenever.. same pretty much goes for NFA by the 80's with the whole mm bop bop bop chant thing they deff were not jammin it out like they did in 77, but please if u know of some standout performances after 82 please let me know

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Poster:	Ssag	Date:	Aug 20, 2007 10:44pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: No, Really . . .

When I discuss Dead I most certainly do not think of anything past 1982 sorry for the confusion but you may not know me and I should have been more clear.

Not Fade Away in 1968 to lets say 1978 is an aged fine wine hands down.

Granted there were some great versions in between but tell me this song did not grow into a monster it became by lets say 1978 as opposed to the first version on 6/19/68? I could care less if they clapped hands, I think in terms of 1965 to the early 80's.

Some songs broke out okay became the best of Merlots in the 70's and than rotted again into vinegar by the late 80's and 90's. Personal opinion of course.

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Poster:	shootermcgavin	Date:	Aug 20, 2007 11:06pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: No, Really . . .

no i do not know u and when i think of the grateful dead i think of when they were.. the grateful dead... up until they were not, so when i think of this subject of aged wine i was looking at it from when it was first played till the end...had no idea u considered the end to be 1982, sorry.

"same pretty much goes for NFA by the 80's with the whole mm bop bop bop chant thing they deff were not jammin it out like they did in 77"

"Granted there were some great versions in between but tell me this song did not grow into a monster it became by lets say 1978 as opposed to the first version on 6/19/68?"

?pretty sure were in agreement here sorry u misunderstood my point

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Poster:	BryanE	Date:	Aug 21, 2007 7:35am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: No, Really . . .

Hey Ssag,

If you've never delved into those latter day versions of Around & Around, I'd recommend 'em just for shits & grins. Nice and bluesy, amigo.

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Poster:	high flow	Date:	Aug 20, 2007 9:40pm
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: No, Really . . .CLIFF did too!

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=119638


Quite alot of thought put in to this....worth re-visiting.....since you mentioned it!

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Poster:	William Tell	Date:	Aug 21, 2007 5:54am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: No, Really . . .CLIFF did too!

My point exactly.

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Poster:	prideofcucamonga	Date:	Aug 21, 2007 9:08am
Forum:	GratefulDead	Subject:	Re: No, Really . . .

I think Sugaree's definitely a good example of a song aging well, especially if we restrict things to the seventies/early eighties. The problem with the wine analogy and the Dead is that it only works up to a point. Almost nothing of the old stuff sounds better once you get into the later eighties. (This doesn't mean it can't still get you drunk, of course.)