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Poster: | Jim F | Date: | Mar 3, 2005 2:28pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Live Dead run Missing |
RIP
Phooey
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Poster: | jeffyjo | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 12:05pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
Is LAMA's removal of these shows an internal decision, or a request from the Dead's IP people?
If it's LAMA's decision, made on its own merits, please detail a list of what shows are/will be affected by this new decision, and why.
If it's a Dead IP decision, please request that the Dead circulate the revised copy of their music trading policy to all music traders as soon as possible, to avoid further confusion.
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Poster: | Brad Leblanc | Date: | Mar 7, 2005 10:49am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-03-07 18:49:59
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Poster: | barrywhiterules | Date: | Mar 7, 2005 5:03am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
The people who run this site are open, considerate, patient and communicative. If this was their decision, they would be out front in explaining it.
I think people are making a fuss over relatively little.
Dead live shows will always circulate.
We will probably always have a choice between the high-quality show being sold by the Dead, and a lesser-quality but free version on the trading market.
We may not always have a nice central registry like the Archive to find our Dead ... but it will always be out there, somewhere.
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 7, 2005 10:17am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-07 18:17:44
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Poster: | jbyrd | Date: | Mar 7, 2005 10:05am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
"I think it's okay...If people like it they can certainly keep doing it. I don't have any desire to control people as to what they're doing and what they have. There's something to be said for being able to record an experience you've liked, or being able to obtain a recording of it. Actually, we have all that stuff in our own collection of tapes. My responsibility to the notes is over after I've played them. At that point I don't care where they go (laughing). They've left home, you know."
The current marketing ploy by Dead Enterprises is totally against the spirit in which the music was created. Yes, I understand that money is part of the game and we all gotta eat, but looking to make such shameless profit off Dead Culture is ridiculous. $20-$25 per download and you provide the cases, cds, print the artwork, time involved, etc. If they can't go the extra route and just make these shows DPs or Vault releases then we should be able to download them free, period. I have over half the DPs, all but 1 Vault release and all the DVDs. I also have a pretty fair "non-commercial" collection too. I agree with others who state that there's been a natural balance all these years in our collections. I have supported these guys through the years with my money, having the faith that they'll allow me to enjoy what free shows I could. The notion of grabbing shows out of thin air to stick them on fuckin' iTunes is a corporate power-grab. And notice that the performances that are gone are some dank-ass shows. Shame on the remaining members to disgrace the Dead name in this way, they're supposed to be the antithesis of pop culture and all it's profit-driven marketing tactics. Look at what you pay for DP 33 for example:
-FLAC download (only kind worth having): $23.50
-Packaged Dick's Pick in HDCD (much better): $25
Looks like they make about the same money for providing a whole lot less product on their end.
No way in hell I'm paying the same for a FLAC file that they just stick on a server (and I manufacture myself) as I do for a proper CD release. I'm with Dr. Flashback on this one, if they start just picking shows and declaring them untradeable because they're on iTunes (without a corresponding CD release), then screw 'em, trade anyway. Who would've thought the Long, Strange Trip ends up in a fat-cat's wallet. I'm sure Jerry is quite disappointed.
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 7, 2005 10:22am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-07 18:22:49
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Poster: | paint-picker | Date: | Mar 7, 2005 11:59pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | dr. flashback | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 1:33pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
And while we're removing shows - what about ANTHEM OF THE SUN, which contains portions of over a dozen different shows from 1968. Better take down the whole Spring 1968 run, just to be safe, huh?
That makes about as much sense.
Back in the 60's, there was something called The Establishment. The free, non-consuming counter culture of the Haight Ashbury was too much of a threat, so they quickly figured out ways to co-opt the hippie culture and sell it back to us as expensive designer jeans, etc.
What Dead Inc. is doing is no different, only slicker. The band WAS divided on this issue a few years ago (releasing the Archive stuff) and if I remember correctly it was Phil who was against bringing in corporate outsiders to market these old shows. Looks like he lost.
Let me be very clear to all who would criticize my opinion - I have no problem with paying for Dick's Picks. I have a whole stack of them. I have also bought every single Dead album on CD, some of them twice now, and I also bought the Winterland 1978 DVD, okay? There has been an unspoken agreement between the Grateful Dead and the fans for many years now - clean up and release a few old shows now and then, we'll buy them, and let us AUD tape or download the rest as bootlegs. It's been a fair deal that we've all been happy with. Until now.
I know Establishment when I smell it, and this stinks. I hope I'm wrong, but I believe their long term goal is to re-claim as much of the Vault boots as they can - and charge us for them. Some CEO accountant has figured out how much money they're losing per day on these free downloads, and that's the name of that tune.
To all (I hope not many, and you're probably under 40 years old) who would defend Dead Inc.'s right to make more money and who are all thrilled at paying to download these former FREE shows, let me say I believe you have your values upside down.
The people who we (and the Grateful Dead) should be thankful to and who really deserve our respect are the numerous tech-heads out there on the net, such as Charlie Miller, the Music Never Stopped project and many, many others - who have for no financial compensation and purely for the LOVE AND SPIRIT OF THE MUSIC - collected and painstakingly cleaned up these Dead shows for us all to enjoy. THEY are the real heroes here, and if wasn't for them, most of these old 60's and 70's shows wouldn't exist at all.
Is it about materialism and commercialism, or is it about the art and spirit of the music? I know which side I'm on. And if you'll take the time to read Garcia's biography - you'll see how Jerry felt about trading free shows. I think that about sums it up.
One last thought, everybody go out and support live bands in your hometown, and if you hear a new INDI band here on LAMA that you like, try and buy their CD. They DO need your money, not these multi-millionaires at Dead Inc.
Dr. Flashback
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Poster: | Jim F | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 3:16pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | jeffyjo | Date: | Mar 6, 2005 6:56am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
While I don't agree with the logic and wording of some of the previous posts made on this thread, the simple fact is that people just want to know what's going on so they can fly right and continue to appropriately respect the Dead's copyrights.
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Poster: | safetyman | Date: | Mar 8, 2005 11:05pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 8, 2005 11:32pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-09 07:32:28
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Poster: | drjoek | Date: | Mar 9, 2005 1:35pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Sickest Dark Star? |
Discuss
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 8:45pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
You've posted a few times about your impatience a few hours apart, on a Saturday?
Even on regular workdays, I imagine things will proceed at their own pace.
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Poster: | Matt Vernon | Date: | Mar 6, 2005 10:25am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
Just kidding.
The LMA does remove complete shows that are commercial releases ala Dick's Picks and Vault Releases. The removal just makes them not available for download. Everything is still scattered about on hard drives mirrored on two continents.
There is one part time LMA curator and a few crazies like myself that try to maintain some semblance of organization amidst the chaos of crashing servers, bad links, corrupt zip files and the oh-so annoying misspelled song title. At this time we can only flag the complete shows for removal even if some songs were omitted from the commercial release.
Everyone can form their own hypothesis about what goes on. Who talks to who.
I always thought that there was a plan articulated way back by gdp to plow through the Europe 72 run since these were all multi-track tapes and the music is without parr. If these missing shows do portend another Europe 72 release that should be good news I would think.
Would people be complaining so vehemently if it were 95 shows that were unavailable for download?
At the end of the day, we should count our blessings that this music existed while we were alive to hear it and almost all of it is available here.
Could it disappear tomorrow from the LMA? Yes. Would the sun still rise each day? Yes.
The only natural phenomena that would cause this music to disappear altogether is a planetary wide disruption. There are so many copies of so many shows distributed to so many people that there is no way it will ever be lost. You just might have to spend a few minutes emailing someone to get it instead of the instantaneous gratification we now take from granted.
Finally, the LMA is non-profit and runs on the generousity of people's time and money. Its an experiment in progress. They can use your support.
Before you type messages demanding to know what happens, think about it.
If there IS something that is going on and YOU don't know about it, then that is part of the PLAN.
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Poster: | jeffyjo | Date: | Mar 6, 2005 1:00pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | drjoek | Date: | Mar 7, 2005 3:08am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
I discovered LMA last September and treated it like the freebies at a convention. I went back over and over and kept filling my pockets(ie Hard drive with shows and shows) I started at the two shows I had been lucky enough to attend in my younger days. 10/31/80 Radio City then purchased Dicks Picks 18 Englishtown NJ. Who knew at the time that I had attended 2 of the top 100 Dead shows on tape. Lucky me I guess. As I drifted through life as a responsible adult for 20 odd years before "getting back on the bus again"(Midlife Crisis? Maybe) albiet from a reponsible distance of listening to releases etc. A couple of years ago I began trying to track down tapes, disks on Napster etc and then happened upon LMA since then I have become a full fledged "HEADcase". I started downloading all the available top shows. Then year to year top shows 66-95, then less than top shows but stuff that seemed intriguing. Then it was downloading Runs at a time.I have even gotten to the point of downloading shows that others seem to think are good shows. Places and times that were new to me.Heck I even streamed two shows because people said they were the worst ever. (Alright I admit I actually downloaded them too Campolindo & Boreal for those that wonder)I, like others have downloaded more than I could ever listen to but knowing that someday I will listen to a new show ( One that sits still zipped in it little file waiting for me to unwrap). I see some of my favorites are starting to be removed from the Archive(2/27-3/269) and I see that I was not a fool as my wife suggests to download 100 Gigs of shows. For once I did not miss the curve I am ahead of the wave. I fear that the trend is toward less access and I feel covetous of the shows I do have and the ones that I may have missed out on, that I am too late to download. I better get busy again. No more dawdling.We should be thankful that we have had this access at all. I am not one who traded and traded for years but I do know that I am happy for what I do have. It is somewhat like a beautuful sunset, here then gone. Isnt that what would be expected of this Archive? Some of us will have gorged on it, others will come in and see a couple of shows and think "Cool" lets get that. I looked at it as a finite comodity. There were only so many shows, I would have gotten all of them then what? Ive got a stack of CD's to burn and listen as much as they will last. It will go away and be gone forever. I guess how I feel is that reality was not- all these free shows in pristine digital format easy to download and burn- and it is not the other extreme where everything is gone. It is somewhere in between. They will take some away and make them into DPs or Vaults.This is not punative. They don't take them away and say you cant listen to the really good shows or the highlights ever again. They are just trying to make a little off it, which sucks, but thats life. If the great shows were being removed and sequestered for ever that would be a shame. They don,t release 36 DP a year, one or two maybe right? So we pony up a bit for what we can afford or we listen to what is available and save for the corporate stuff when we can. I am glad I got some of the stuff that is gone but Im mad that some stuff was gone before I discovered it. Someone will come in behind me in line at the Bus Stop and get on. Hopefully they get on with us and enjoy the ride as it is today.
"This is all a dream we dreamed one afternoon long ago"
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Poster: | jeffyjo | Date: | Mar 4, 2005 8:47am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
Unless the Dead has changed their policy and not told anyone.
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Poster: | GMW | Date: | Mar 4, 2005 9:17am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | dead trail | Date: | Mar 3, 2005 9:21pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | dead trail | Date: | Mar 3, 2005 9:38pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
5/4/72
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Poster: | George Minton | Date: | Mar 3, 2005 9:48pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Eric Geffner | Date: | Mar 31, 2005 9:20am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
is also gone, I am not sure how long it has been MIA but it is now gone....
could some kind soul pleaassesseeee email me a list of what is gone from the list ???????
drgeff@yahoo.com
completists rule !!!!
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Poster: | paint-picker | Date: | Mar 4, 2005 1:09am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 4, 2005 1:22am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | lauraj400 | Date: | Mar 4, 2005 1:54am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Eric Geffner | Date: | Mar 31, 2005 11:08am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 4, 2005 2:01am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | dr. flashback | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 3:11am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
posted: 3/01/05
Download Grateful Dead Music
Live Grateful Dead archival recordings -- the two-track "Dick's Picks" series and the multi-track "Vault" series -- are now available for direct downloading through iTunes or through Dead.net's own GDStore.com.
I would like to know why so many shows have been removed from LAMA at once, when none of them is a vault release or a Dick's Picks. True, SOME of the songs on "Steppin Out Europe 72" are from the England shows - but none of the Paris shows have been released in any form. Neither have any of the 1969 run - 2/27,2/28,3/1, or 3/2 - been released, except that the 2/27 Dark Star is of course on Live Dead. But that was released in 1969, and people have traded the 2/27 show for decades.
I also seriously doubt that the "Dead Corporation"
is going to release ALL 4 of these 1969 shows at once. Furthermore, since they have recently released "Steppin Out" and "Rockin at the Rhine" from 1972, I doubt they are going to release more Europe 72 anytime soon. Again, it does not make sense why LAMA has chosen to remove so many shows all at once. If the "Dead Corporation" has suddenly changed their long standing policy on trading free non-released shows - it's new to me, and if LAMA has some information on this from the Dead then please either post it or offer us some explanation of why these shows are now off limits. As it stands - things are very unclear and ambiguous.
Let's take 5/26/72 as an example. This contains the great Truckin>Morning Dew that was released on Europe 72, but the rest of the show is NOT released, and has been traded freely for years, and still today is available on many FTP sites - AS IT SHOULD BE according to the Dead's own stated policy.
In my opinion, and I think I speak for most reasonable Deadheads here, we have for years maintained a healthy balance between downloading/trading free shows, yet still buying what we can afford as DP's or Vault releases, because we want to support the band and be fair.
Shows that are not released AS A WHOLE, or AUDIENCE versions of released shows, should be available for trading - as has been stated here by many reviewers recently. The last time I checked - the missing songs from DP #1 12/19/73 were still available here so folks who own that release could complete the whole show. This is a reasonable and kind policy - and it should continue.
What disturbs me - and I'm not necessarily blaming the band members themselves - is that some at Dead Inc. are now turning their backs on the Dead fans who traded free shows for decades and yet still bought all those $50 tickets to support the band. It disturbs me to see the "suits" start to try and grab every last dime out of shows that are 20 and 30 years old. Do you know any rich Deadheads? I don't either - and yet Dead.net is now advertising ALL of the Dick's Picks for over $700. Good luck! What's next - digitally remastering all the DP's so we'll have to buy them all AGAIN? Haven't all of us supported the Dead enough? We've made them all millionaires many times over. And we'll buy the new GD movie DVD, yes, and we'll buy the new Dick's Picks when they come out. But let us have our old, hissy, cuts-in-songs bootlegs free, that's all we ask. This whole Itunes thing stinks of greed and I'm against it. The way I see it - it's no different than the scumbags who sell free Dead bootleg shows on Ebay.
I and many others here would appreciate a clear, consistent and unambiguous policy from LAMA on the availability of Dead shows in the future. Shows suddenly disappearing by the dozens without a stated reason is dishonest and not in keeping with the spirit of what all this is about.
Thank you,
Dr. Flashback
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Poster: | rollandfin | Date: | Jun 20, 2006 7:05pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
It is the GD organization's prevailing option to set and change policy on exchange of music This can not really be disputed in.
The recordings however are a resource, & held in context of 2006, exist as the most valuable resource to both GD and us the fans. May 3rd 1972 in paris has come and gone and will never re-live. The ability of the band to perform as they did, (as good or as bad), at the Olympia Theatre has faded, and is now all but gone. But the recording has forever captured this moment in the timeline. It is from these performances that Grateful Deads content was created, and which many fans crave.
Commercial releases such as Rockin'The Rhine are great, becuase entire performances can be heard, and money is raised. LAMA Downloads such as May 26th 1973 at Kezar Stadium are equally as special, as they contain unique moments of musical bliss, otherwise lost to time. However May 3rd 1972 is not available for purchase, yet also not downloadable.
Try to imagine never hearing the aquistic sets of May 15th 1970 at the fillmore East, The Dark Star from The Capitol Theater on feb 18th 1971, The Scarlet>Fire form Barton Hall on May 8th 1977, or the Franklin's Tower From the Winterland Arena On June 9th later that year. Better yet, try to imagine never hearing them again. Is that a sense of loss, or an act of justice?
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Jun 20, 2006 7:40pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: pointer to Grateful Dead forum |
http://www.archive.org/details/GratefulDead#forum
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Poster: | worldbridger | Date: | Mar 13, 2005 7:06pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 7:11am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 15:11:58
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Poster: | NJoy | Date: | Nov 3, 2005 10:23am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | March 30, 1990...Where is it? |
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Poster: | dr. flashback | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 10:43am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 18:43:47
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Poster: | pathfinder | Date: | Mar 21, 2005 7:53am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 8:40am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
You probably didn't see David's real post yet, so in quashing that rumor (as Wharfrat73 did just a little while ago on this thread), I'll point to http://hotline.deadnetcentral.com/WebX?50@136.N6t2a49lB3q.0@.4a855066, specifically:
"David Gans - 01:41pm Mar 5, 2005 PDT (#37 of 38)
I have no idea who posted that message nor where, but it did not come from me."
"Apparently," but not necessarily "obviously," that is the real David Gans talking there, not DavidGans. ;)
Doesn't mean there won't be some other future news- it's just not obvious yet.
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Poster: | Exploding Plastic Inevitable | Date: | Mar 21, 2005 5:49am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
Peace,
Luke
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Poster: | Sangamon Taylor | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 10:48am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
This post was modified by Sangamon Taylor on 2005-03-05 17:53:50 [slight language edit- mod.]
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 18:48:01
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Poster: | dead trail | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 10:24am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Ole Uncle John | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 11:33am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
LAMA is easily the greatest resource for live music on the web (In fact I think it is why Al Gore invented it) and I'm not meaning at all to criticize LAMA or the administrators . However if they have more information than us regarding shows being pulled I hope they'll share it.
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 9:15pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-06 05:15:01
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Poster: | dead trail | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 5:32am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
small minority!)
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Poster: | paint-picker | Date: | Mar 4, 2005 4:04pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Ole Uncle John | Date: | Mar 4, 2005 7:11pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 12:04am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-03-05 08:04:27
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Poster: | Ole Uncle John | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 12:14am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | damhippy | Date: | Mar 7, 2005 7:38am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
ps thanks to the LMA people for there hard work and deadication to keepin this site goin....
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Poster: | dead trail | Date: | Mar 3, 2005 9:41pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | WeWantPhil | Date: | Mar 8, 2005 10:14pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | hazbeen | Date: | Mar 4, 2005 4:16am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Jim F | Date: | Mar 4, 2005 7:48am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | hazbeen | Date: | Mar 7, 2005 2:23am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Wharfrat73 | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 6:23am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 7:04am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Wharfrat73 | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 7:07am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Diana Hamilton | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 8:15am |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |
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Poster: | Wharfrat73 | Date: | Mar 5, 2005 1:27pm |
Forum: | etree | Subject: | Re: Live Dead run Missing |