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Poster: brewster Date: November 30, 2005 12:35:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

[see correction -brewster]

The Internet Archive has worked with tapers, tape
traders, funders, admins, and over 1000 bands
to build a great non-commercial music library that is freely accessible.
Technically and policy-wise, it has been invigorating as you can probably appreciate.
We have made changes in the past and we will make changes again.

Following the policies of the Grateful Dead and the Dead communities
we have provided non-commercial access to thousands of great concerts.
Based on discussions with many involved, the Internet Archive has been asked
to change how the Grateful Dead concert recordings are being distributed
on the Archive site for the time being. The full collection will remain safe
in the Archive for preservation purposes.

Here is the plan:

Audience recordings are available in streaming format (m3u).

Soundboard recordings are not available.

Additionally, the Grateful Dead recordings will be separated from the
Live Music Archive into its own collection. The metadata and reviews for
all shows and recordings will remain available.

We appreciate that this change will be a surprise and upset many of you, but please
channel reactions in ways that you genuinely think will be productive.
If we keep the bigger picture in mind that there are many experiments
going on right now, and experiments working well, we can build on the momentum
that tape trading started decades ago.

Working together we can keep non-commercial sharing part of our world.

Thank you for helping find balances that work for all involved.

-brewster
Digital Librarian and Founder

-Matt Vernon
Volunteer GD Archivist




This post was modified by brewster on 2005-11-30 20:35:48

 
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Poster: gratefuled Date: November 26, 2005 01:44:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
If you intend to stop buying from GDM, tell them. Send an email to customerservice@gdstore.com and let them know directly. If they want to play capitalist hard ball, tell them you're voting with your feet! But dont forget to be kind. Just because someone else may have lost it, doesnt mean you must too. The point is not to vent, but only to get the message to whoever is responsible for this that they blew it. If they see enough messages from calm, deliberate deadheads that their merchandising future is threatened, maybe wiser heads will prevail.

 
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Poster: tigerbolt Date: November 22, 2005 09:17:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
...Anyway thanks archive for your support and kindness,still a lot of great music in here.Now it's time to go back to old way of trading grateful dead blanks and postage anyone?nothing left to do but smile smile smile...

[Very unproductive comments snipped. Ugly rumors and death threats(?!) will definitely be moderated.- mod]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-22 17:17:24

 
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Poster: Jon P.-Madison, WI Date: November 22, 2005 09:17:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Dear Grateful Dead Recording demons,
Today I attempted to begin recording to disk my first Dead shows. This was to be my first experience using my CD burner. I was shocked to learn that I will not be able to record shows recorded from soundboards.
I had a traumatic brain injury on May 5, 1999. My family purchased a computer for me while I was in rehabilitation. I have slowly been learning to use the features of my new computer. My tapes are old, from my years of seeing shows in the late 80's into the 90's. I have kept them safe and sound, but had to go through a lot of work to get them back after my belongings were put in storage. I treasure them. Now, these recordings, copied dozens of times, will be my only way to enjoy Dead shows. They suck in quality.
A friend recently shared your site with me. I finally have the time and ability to record some of your extensive collection, I learn that I cannot access these fine recordings. I am sad. Very sad.
I recently saw Bob Weir and Ratdog in Milwaukee. The show was one of the best I've seen. I have tickets to see Phil on Sunday again in Milwaukee. His actions give me reason to sell my tickets to scalpers. They will sell them to the fake Deadheads who have capitalized on sites like yours.
I am on Social Security Disability. My current income does not allow me to buy the few shows commercially available on disc. Your (now unavailable) soundboard quality recordings of the Grateful Dead were to be with me for life. I would have listened to them for my own enjoyment.
Why should I even try to visit your site anymore? This news has made me angry about the Dead for the first time. What would Jerry think?
This is yet another sentence against me. I already have missed 5 1/2 years of my life. Now, the chance to have these treasured quality recordings has been taken away from me. And, it was taken away by one of the Dead members I most liked. This day sucks!
Jon P.

 
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Poster: East Coast Date: November 30, 2005 04:09:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Too bad dude

 
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Poster: blueendo Date: December 07, 2005 02:40:17pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
To JON P of Madison, WI (who posted on 11/22):

Are you for real? The reason I ask is not to be a dick but to offer to share some of mine with you.

If it is true that you sustained such an unfortunate injury and were right on the verge of making some CDs for your personal listening pleasure when the supply was cut off, I'd be happy to send you a few of the more popular shows. How about the early May 1977 trio of Boston (5-7-77), Ithaca, NY (5-8-77), and Buffalo (5-9-77)? I'd be happy to make a Christmas present of them to you if you will send me your name and address to my email - lavelle3*at*cox.net

If your story is a fiction, please don't bother contacting me. I fear for your karma. It isn't worth it to mess with the cosmic gears.

MY STORY:
In my unfocused way, I stumbled onto the Internet Archive a couple of months ago, after downloading most of my Dead shows from gdlive.com.

My Spidey-sense started tingling immediately and soon I was FTPing the bejeezuz out of audio.org. I checked with DeadBase to see which shows were the highest rated by the tie-dyed cognoscenti, and I set about downloading as many of the top 30 or 40 shows as I could.

I'm not surprised the folks in the Dead camp shut off the pipe. I'm sorry so many people feel they were entitled to total and free access to other peoples' work.

That is a large part of what is wrong with our country today. We saw it in New Orleans after Katrina, when people who ignored warnings to get to safety stood around in the stink and complained about not getting handouts fast enough.

We're seeing another version of it here, now. Men and women who, with great bliss and fellowship, once shared the holy magic of Grateful Dead shows have reduced themselves to scuffing toes in the dust and beating on their pots, acting for all the world like welfare queens, or, worse, looters.

The music was never meant to be free if it was to be enjoyed in the manner in which it was created. You had to prepare yourself to receive that blessed sound.

Here's a dumb, but I think appropriate analogy: Take a bagful of Arizona sweets, the most delicious oranges to ever meet a juicer and squeeze them up into a bright pitcher. Then go brush your teeth. When you're done, take a big hit off a glass of OJ. It tastes awful, NOTHING like it should, because you aren't receiving it in the way it was intended.

If you really believe that somebody owes you free Dead music for life, it's my feeling that you probably don't come close to enjoying the sentiment and sense of the music as much as you do hoarding your stack of shiny CDs.

THEY made the music. It was extraordinarily kind (and typical) of those incorrigible rascals to make it available to us for so long, asking nothing in return.

The magic, while it isn't dead, just isn't being created anew in the ways it was once. There are new priorities and it's time to move past this.

My first Dead show - in 1968 at the Fillmore in SF - was like nothing I'd ever experienced. (And I'd seen the Beatles at Shea Stadium and Bob Dylan's first electric show.)

The Dead were like casual sex - the worst I ever had was still great!!

I'd like to remember them in that way.

blueendo - Phoenix

 
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Poster: squints777 Date: December 07, 2005 03:36:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
dude the grateful dead should not be analagized with hurricane katrina.The music should be freely traded amongst the fans. Period, You're like one of those stingy tapers I had to deal with for so many years. You've got your tapes, but only certain people are deserving of sharing them with you. That's what made the archive so great. You could download whatever show you wanted, but you didn't have to deal with any red tape. Well I guess you got what you wanted. Hey maybe if I become cripple you can send me some tapes

 
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Poster: dillowrangler Date: December 07, 2005 03:59:44pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Supposing your right... Since you "set about downloading as many of the top 30 or 40 shows as I could," and "the music was never meant to be free," it might do your karma good to cut Bob a check for the same 500 or so bucks (@ $15 a pop) he'll be seeking for the unlucky soul who stumbled across the archive a couple months later than you did. Up until now, it seemed that we paid for the privilege of sharing in and feeding the groove at a show, but simply listening to it later was a gift given to us by the band we loved.....

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: December 07, 2005 08:27:49pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on
Folks, it's time to be moving forward here, not looking back to respond to emotions of over two weeks ago now. Accept that you will have to declaim on this subject now at a better place such as deadnetcentral.com or your personal blog.

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50565

 
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Poster: josewavo Date: December 07, 2005 06:04:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I'm afraid my friend, you have a very narrow viewpoint. The reason any concert is not allowed to be recorded is to prevent financial gains becoming realized by someone other then members of the band...any band. As long as we traded shows, copies of which were freely given in the form of boards BY the band, by the old conventional means, the volumn of music traded would never reach a point where the "official release" would ever be threatened. Now that the digital age has made it a 'volumn relative' threat, the Dead has renigged on a time honored system. We the public did not compromise the 'agreement' by selling copies of the shows. If that had been the case, the GDM would have been justified. This is simple a matter of a financial concern outweighing an artistic one.
One other note...most of the Katrina victums did not choose to stay, they had no other option. To overlook this small point is to reveal something about your own character I don't care to discuss, but it certainly is not reflective of the spiritually compassionate attitude for ALL peoples that was first prevelant in the early counter-culture.

 
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Poster: texsurfer30 Date: December 08, 2005 08:03:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
howdy folks I'm relatively new to the whole show trading concept and I'm not quite sure how it works, but to say that I am a fan of jerry and the boys would be a gross understatement. How can I contact someone regarding the trading of GD shows.

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: December 08, 2005 08:22:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: trading pointer
Poke around at http://db.etree.org for instance, find a likely trader and ask them. Good luck!

Related FAQ: http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#226

 
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Poster: darkstargirl Date: December 17, 2005 02:01:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
to blueendo:

allow me to quote you if you please...

"That is a large part of what is wrong with our country today. We saw it in New Orleans after Katrina, when people who ignored warnings to get to safety stood around in the stink and complained about not getting handouts fast enough."

first of all, if you had no car, no money for a bus, all your families and friends were in the same financial situation, and the weathiest country in the world (your home) abandoned you in a natural disaster, you would have been standing "around in the stink" and complaining too. that is if you were lucky enough to have not drowned trapped inside your attic.

and then (to my continued amazement) you go on to say:

"We're seeing another version of it here, now. Men and women who, with great bliss and fellowship, once shared the holy magic of Grateful Dead shows have reduced themselves to scuffing toes in the dust and beating on their pots, acting for all the world like welfare queens, or, worse, looters."

i fail to see how we're "seeing another version" of hurricane katrina. for as long as the dead have existed, they have done so with a mentality that includes things like "music should be free," "the audience is just has much to do with the music as we do," and "once we've played it, it's yours." oh i get it... you mean that the heartless fools that currently run this country have gone against
all its principles in much the same way as whomever decided dead music must be bought?

you said it yourself, "men and women who, with great bliss and fellowship, once SHARED the holy magic of Grateful Dead shows." the operative word being SHARED.

do you hear yourself??? to recap your position:
1.) dead music should be bought
2.) all people too poor to evacuate a natural disaster deserve to stand around in the stink waiting to die.

gee, some hippie you are. i'm disgusted that you think of yourself as such. maybe you need to reassess your thinking a bit, eh?

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: December 17, 2005 09:49:01pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: movin' on
You are responding to a discussion going on a month old. The most constructive thing you can do here now is *not* to go on discussing this here. Thanks.

Here are a couple posts for context in case you missed them before:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50879
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=50565

 
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Poster: ststvnfa Date: July 17, 2007 10:25:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
we are nowhere need the wealthiest country in the world, sorry, we do have the biggest debt however

 
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Poster: darkstargirl Date: July 19, 2007 11:21:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Seriously??? It has been about 6 months since I posted the posting you responded to. Do you seriously think your input is at all necessary at this point?

But if you insist:

You are correct that we are not THE wealthiest in the world. At the time I wrote that, I must have been so overwhelmed with anger that I rambled incorrectly. We are, however nowhere near the poorest. We think we are strong/big/powerful enough to police the rest of the world, and yet we can't seem to take care of our own (i.e. Katrina, Iraq, Health Care, etc., etc., etc.)

Besides, the point of this thread was that the sharing (or lack thereof) of Grateful Dead music is absolutely no comparison to Hurricane Katrina and its victims.

Did you really think it necessary to open this can of worms... AGAIN? I hope you reconsider before dragging out old arguments next time.

 
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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: July 19, 2007 02:38:02pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
GDP: $13.13 trillion ... that 's hard to beat. Per capita with various adjustments puts us behind norway and quatar and a few others depending on how you rank. Factor in the ridiculesly high taxes and cost of living back in and I don't think there is any doubt, is there? Oh and also... WHO CARES!? We have the coolest bands, movies, dead forums, archives, jihadists, etc.

 
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Poster: darkstargirl Date: July 20, 2007 04:39:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Okay, you win... you obviously have more free time than I do. I have no time, not to mention patience for you at this point considering as I've previously stated:

1. This was not the POINT of the argument to begin with!
2. This thread is 6 MONTHS OLD!!!
3. You are clearly convinced that America has become a third world nation, and considering our current administration, you aren't too far off the mark.

Feel free to ramble on about that which is irrelevant and outdated all you want. I am done wasting my time and this website's bandwidth with all this nonsense. So, have at it! Knock yourself out! Just don't expect me or anyone else to waste another moment of our time dealing with it, or you.

 
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Poster: jodz Date: July 20, 2007 06:17:13pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
the dead are whats up and you seem down so goodbye dont go away mad just go away

 
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Poster: zoot from r7 Date: December 29, 2005 07:18:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
i don't know about anybody elsem but i would love to have 5/09/77 awonderful month i have 5/7 ,8, 17,21 but would love 5/09 buffalo and or 5/05 new haven let me know if we can arrange a trade

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: December 29, 2005 07:59:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: trade pointer
http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#226

 
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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: December 29, 2005 08:46:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
got those sdbs - direwolf at flashmail dot com

 
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Poster: Hardley Date: August 23, 2007 11:10:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Dude,

There are a number of alternatives...

You could try http://www.deadshow.com/. Their shows are Real Audio posts. You'll need to capture the stream from your sound card - it's a bit of a hassle, but the quality isn't bad.

The best source GD concerts would be New Groups. Again, a bit of a hassle, even more than capturing the feed from your sound card and you'll need a high speed connection if you don't want to grow old waiting for the download.

Concerts are posted in *.shn file format. Essentially, each concerts is broken into smaller pieces which have to be joined together (search for SHN on the net and you'll find the software that does this for you or try http://www.shns.net/ for an overview). Once joined, the complete concert is saved as a wav file. A fairly steep learning curve, but worth the effort. The quality of the shows are usually very good - many of the posts are from soundboard recordings.

One issue with using news groups is that the shows are posted for short periods of time - I guess its a storage issue. Another issue is that before (or during?) the individual files are joined there is some checksum stuff that goes on. If there is a problem, you sometime need to re-download one or more of the individual files. So, if you go the new group route you need to see if you can convert the shn file to a wav file quickly, because once that particular show is remove for the new group you're back to begging that those portions be reposted.

Hope this helps...

Now I don't know, but I been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
Other hand I have heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

 
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Poster: DeadSetMonkey Date: November 22, 2005 09:32:46pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I agree... it is back to the good old days of trading for blanks and postage... except now maybe we'll be shipping around hardrives? I had started slowly downloading the archive to external HD, slowly, in anticipation of this happening... I only got 1967-4/1970... wish I had gone faster.... Anyone else out there get a significant junk of the archive downloaded? You send me your 200GB HD, I'll send you mine...

 
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Poster: Bugz Date: November 22, 2005 10:55:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Dead Set Monkey and others - I'm certain that a lot of us have safe copies of the music - maybe a file sharing group @ yahoo or similar to facilitate spreading the music?

To the Archive: Thanks, and all your efforts are / were appreciated - this means all who were involved - a round of applause to you, and a standing ovation.

I have more shows than I can listen to in a month of Blue Moons and listen I do; I have learned about many other bands and will attend their shows when they roll into town solely because I heard them here.

I have never, except an LP back in the early 1970's, purchased a bootleg GD recording and never will. I have kept my part of the bargain and will continue to do so.

I will still purchase GD recordings, but I will not, if the rumors turn out to be true that a wife of a deceased member is responsible for this sea change, purchase any recordings from that source. I hope this is not the case and I apologize to any GD family member if this rumor is just lashing out by some parties that feel hurt by this action.

If this is a Band decision so be it; All I can request is that the music be made available by download "officially" at a reasonable cost.

I am surprised at the timing, the day before Thanksgiving, but it could have been a year ago so...

Has anyone looked at the GD site to see if there is a message? I will go there now to check and post if appropriate.

 
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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: November 22, 2005 11:19:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
If such a website comes into existence, I'd sure appreciate a membership card!

 
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Poster: jlizard96 Date: November 25, 2005 07:28:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I have 1994 and 1995 in its entirety from live music. org. I'd be interested in "swapping hard drives" for 0ther years.

my email: jlizard96@verizon.net

 
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Poster: costab06 Date: November 29, 2005 08:31:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I was happy to occasionally download a concert I liked, and to buy Dick's Picks for stuff that was really special. I figured this was a balance. Community and commerce. It felt good.

That feeling is now gone. I only saved a few concerts. I'll send the hard disks if anyone is willing to fill 'em up. I don't have much to offer, but I'll pay for the effort. So much for avoiding the commercial resale of this material. The fastest way to create a black market is to make something scarce...






 
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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: November 29, 2005 08:46:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Costab...Email me and we'll trade. disguisedasasquirrel@gmail.com
Have some top notch shows. Trade lists?

 
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Poster: David Bolewski Date: December 18, 2005 06:57:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I'm not articulate enough to express in words how Grateful I am for the very human element of free sharing behind the Live music archive. All the people involved in making it happen. It really all happened by accident as Bob Weir walked passed a music store where Jerry was playing banjo and caught his ear.This was the result. Live music archive is part of Rock n Roll history indeed and should be inducted into the Rock n Roll hall of fame for there efforts and quality. Thanks for a real good time. Peace.

 
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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: December 18, 2005 09:22:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
RIGHT ON DAVE! Where are those petitioneers when you need them? This is a great way for an intern to spend their day. Is there an intern out there that wants to get an Archive.org petition up and running to get them into the R&R Hall of Fame? Awesome idea.

Cleveland, here comes the LAMA!

 
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Poster: qtpiesd24 Date: June 06, 2007 09:33:58pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Hi, my name is Michelle...I don't know exactly whom I should talk to or contack concerning some original professionally taken photograph's of mainly Jerry Garcia, along with the GreatfulDead live in concert. The concert photo's range in sizes and on the back there is hand written the year of which they were taken and the location of the concert. I have browsed a few web sites that sell reprints of similar type pictures though these are the only ones of their kind. I was interested in selling them though I don't know where to beging to go. I know that they are worth money, hell if I had the means myself I could make poster's and reprints at various sizes and make a killing. Though I donot have the time, that is why I would like to sell them out right for one whole sum; of course being of a decent amount. Can you help me to head in the right direction of where or what I should do or go? I would be forever greatful to you.
Sincerely,
Michelle

 
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Poster: cush212 Date: June 06, 2007 09:57:38pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Try ebay or something like that...

 
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Poster: stratocaster Date: November 22, 2005 09:21:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I will boycott the Grateful Dead merchandise machine for a long while as a result of this...I'm sick that the band caved to Koons, Lesh and a bunch a twat lawyers...Phil you can go take your $50 tickets and your other crap and go f*ck yourself, you greedy bastard...



This post was modified by stratocaster on 2005-11-22 17:21:21

 
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Poster: sugaree63 Date: November 25, 2005 09:37:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I had a feeling Koons was after money. After all, she has the power to do that. I did not have the idea that Phil was up to some of this. Does anyone know what each of the band members' position is about this? What and where did Phil's position come out?

 
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Poster: Cpt.Trips Date: November 29, 2005 08:13:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
this whole thing sucks!!! the koons [] needs to be stopped!!! is there any proof that phil had a hand in this? i will be extremly dissapointed if its true.....St Stephen will remain all he's lost he shall regain

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-29 16:13:45

 
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Poster: stratocaster Date: November 22, 2005 09:10:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
To the Archive Library, you guys have done a great job.

To the Grateful Dead, $hame on you.


 
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Poster: mrG Date: November 28, 2005 12:53:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Shame maybe, but definately a lack of imagination, and maybe that is telling of itself. Was there an offer of "special edition" dvds with additional value-added material to entice you to buy rather than the (considerable) bother to burn your own? No. Was there a new distribution method to effortlessly open this content into the burgeoning iPod network for a small convenience fee? No.

Was there even a word of official explanation, an apology by the band or, dare I dream it, a thank-you-all-for-keeping-us-famous?

Not to my knowledge, no.

Thing is, for all these faux pas, GD are still megaparsecs beyond the best of the other rockers. Neil Young won't give you anything for free unless you buy a certain O/S, John Cougar will sue you if you post just his lyrics, and the list doesn't stop there.

The thing to do is not to bitch at the greed, but rather to turn away, to dig into those other tens of thousands of bands who do have a clue, find the gems in there, and do your very utmost to fill all available outbound bandwidth telling every and anyone you can what's good and worth the bother.

Because apparently GD no longer is.

 
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Poster: johnny99 Date: November 28, 2005 01:03:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I agree there's tons of other bands out there besides the Dead, I mean they were a great band but they are definitly not the end all be all of all music.

 
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Poster: Slim075 Date: November 28, 2005 01:06:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
"I mean they were a great band but they are definitly not the end all be all of all music"

I would have to dissagree
they are most deffinately the BE ALL of Music
I don't know about the end all, but they have
the BE ALL taken care of

 
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Poster: kcjibberjabber Date: November 28, 2005 03:58:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
First off, a huge thanx to the archives for the immense database of GD shows and all the rest in the library. Its been a blast being able to search through the shows and read all the fun lovin posts. For whats its worth id like to share my 2cents and post my thoughts & observations as a grateful fan:
"....the funny thing is, Jerry & the rest of the band wre a bunch of cynical,shit-talking,dark humored guys. A band of pirates really. and they were being followed around by these tofu-eating love people....." ( Trixie Garcia, RS 971)
I dunno what all the fuss is about. Do people remember what trading was like before the archives? Remember what a post-office looks like? I mean, remember getting all excited about finally getting that fatty package of those tapes/discs? So if Phil & his Friends( debra) are setting up a retirement? Hey, we scored 2yrs worth off free,unlimited downloads of some of the most amazing music ever made at some of the highest quality known to man. Did I mention it was all free?

".... but they forgot that the musicians needed to make a living to..." ( Bob Weir, Film Fest.Express)
....WE WILL SURVIVE... & ...THANK YOU FOR A REAL GOOD TIME.....

So here's my email addie to set up some trades:
boogiesessions@yahoo.com I have about 1000hrs off archives. 85% is SBD. peace, KC


















 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: The Bopper Date: November 22, 2005 10:39:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
What a sad day. But it would have been foolish to think this wasn't going to happen at some point. I started downloading all my favorite '82's not to long ago fearing this day was coming.

But no need for everyone to freak out and start bashing various members and family members of the Dead. Contact GDP or someone over at dead.net if you want to complain. I'm surprised at the immediate thrashing that's occured on this thread alone. I'm sure all these great shows will start popping up elsewhere, maybe not as a full package but they will be available as single shows more then ever through torrents.

If you are familiar with trading music on the internet, this sort of thing has happened before and will happen again. Anyone remember TOL, Easytree.org or it's predecessors? Sure this is a convienient site but hopefully people downloaded all the good soundbounds for the near two years they existed here and they will be available elsewhere. The fact that all those great recordings were available in one place was a blessing.

Hello Bittorrent. See you at Etree.

Thank you Brewster and Archive staff for all your hard work.


This post was modified by The Bopper on 2005-11-22 18:39:11

 
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Poster: captain_trip_420 Date: November 22, 2005 09:24:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
"A taste of honey is worse than none at all"

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Here ya go Koons....here's your F'in MONEY...
"She wants Money, What she want, She wants Money"
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

What happend to "WHAT WOULD JERRY DO?"

 
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Poster: HLS Date: November 22, 2005 09:18:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
To the archive--many many thanks.

One must admit, that the most likely story here is that the Dead pulled the plug on the SBDs.

This action demonstrates a very great lack of generosity on their part, as well as fundamental marketing miscalculation--tape traders don't buy that many Dick's Picks or Dead downloads--they hunt down SBDs, and they will continue to do so.

Can't say I am really surprised though--too good to be true.




 
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Poster: terrapin_john Date: November 22, 2005 09:25:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
If you donated money to help support the Grateful Dead music on the Internet Archive, I encourage you to ask for it back.

 
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Poster: ChinaDog Date: November 22, 2005 09:30:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
"just another corporate logo"


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


 
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Poster: john@gdradio.net Date: November 22, 2005 09:33:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
responding to this news with a level of maturity isn't very hard, is it?

thanks LMA for the great service you provided

thanks GDP for permitting it for as long as you did (i'm amazed it lasted even THIS long)

and to those who feel hurt and betrayed...

just like the old days

TAKE A STEP BACK

start getting to know your brothers and sisters again and get back to tradin'.

peace

 
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Poster: staylorrr Date: November 22, 2005 08:58:08pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
terrapin_john wrote:
> If you donated money to help support the Grateful Dead music on the Internet Archive, I encourage you to ask for it back.

Yeah, cause we all know this was archive.org's decision... (eyes rolling, sarcasm).

 
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Poster: Vermontdeadhead Date: November 22, 2005 09:35:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I just got turned on to this site about a month ago and was able to get crispy copies for my own enjoyment of all the shows I attended. I was just starting to build the library and had the 65 show and almost all the 66 that was available when the plug got pulled today. What a BUMMER.:(
I do purchase ALL the Grateful dead and Jerry.com releases that come out officially- Just got my preorder of the 69 Fillmore limited edition today. So if this is the GDP greed factory at work then shame on you. What ever happened to the "Once we're done playing it it's yours" mentality that Jerry expoused?
Thank you for the opportunity as short as it was.
WWJD?
Kevin Anderson
P.S. Feel free to put the 1000 plus soundboards that got yanked back on anytime.

 
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Poster: snarkus Date: November 22, 2005 09:43:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I'd also like to thank the kind folks who run the Archive for all of their efforts, and for making the most of a bad situation here.

As for whatever remains of the dead, you have really disappointed me. I've been a fan for over 3 decades now, own all the albums, more Dick's Picks than I have space to store. I thought the existence of this material on the Archive was a beautiful thing, a veritable national treasure. I don't often download shows from the LMA, counting instead on them being there. I'll often get an urge to hear some particular version of some particular song, and know where I can go find it. Or point someone else at a song that has meaning to me. But no more.

This is a real breach of faith. Greedy moneygrubbing BS. I thought the scene was about more than that. I guess I was wrong. I hope you're happy. I hope you make a few more dollars than you might otherwise have. Have a great life. But don't expect anything more from me. I will attend no more shows, buy no more CD's. I was a fan of the Grateful Dead. But they apparently don't exist anymore. Greed has killed them off for good.

 
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Poster: Spud8 Date: November 22, 2005 09:45:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Indeed it's a SAD day!

It's almost unbelievable! It's ridiculous!

This goes against everything the Grateful Dead ever represented. It's an act of cowards!

How could possibly the archive represent a threat to GD Merchandising??! It's non-commercial, man!

I'm going boycott as well. No more Dick's Picks for me! Not even a T-shirt! I promise I won't ever purchase anything from GD Merc as long as I live. They will never ever see a dime of mine anymore.

I'm sure Jerry is pissed off, wherever he is.

!!!SHAME!!!



 
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Poster: samson Date: November 22, 2005 10:07:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Am I disappointed? Yes. I still remember the excitement from day one seeing 79 and 85 being the first years to show up. A year and a half later I still have the same excitement of being here to see (and hear) everything that followed. Despite the disappointment, I am forever grateful for what was given to us as everyone else should be! Brewster, Matt, GDIAP people whoever you are, we really appreciate what you guys have done for us.

I'll still sit here with my fingers crossed for shows to return but if they don't I'm still very happy for what I got.

As long as theres music here I will keep coming back with no hard feelings.
Peace and Thanks!!!

 
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Poster: pjb71 Date: November 29, 2005 03:32:01pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
i'd love to know the whole story.
it's too bad, because this beautiful music means so much more than some commercial endeavor.
but nothing lasts.
thank you charlie miller, jon aizen, and everyone else involved.
and thank you jerry!


This post was modified by pjb71 on 2005-11-29 23:32:01

 
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Poster: Spud8 Date: November 22, 2005 11:12:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Pardon my anger on last post.

Thank you so much Archive – it’s been great. !Hope!

08-09-1995 > RIP Jerome Garcia
11-22-2005 > RIP The Grateful Dead ?

!!!Please, somebody do sometinhg!!!

PHILLLLLLL… PHIIIILLLLLLLLLLL…

…………………………………….

This goes to GD Merc:

“I won't slave for beggar's pay
likewise gold and jewels
But I would slave to learn the way
to sink your Ship of Fools”

 
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Poster: chun Date: November 22, 2005 10:03:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
DELETE THEM

Remove their money grubbing music from this archive.

Seriously - now you're the internet radio station? What a crock. Delete it all - they are no longer worthy of being archived.

What a rip off to the people that wasted time uploading file after file after file.

I am done with paying for ANYTHING grateful dead related at all.

I will soon be offering to do HD trades of complete years for people looking to completed their collections. Screw GDP - and Deborah and her money grubbing lawers .....

Jerry is turning over in his grave.....

"when the show is over it's done with .... I don't care what you do with it....."


 
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Poster: captain_trip_420 Date: November 22, 2005 09:11:28pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Oh yea, BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM
BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM

BOYCOTT GDP AND GDM

Looks like they made a stupid move...

Thank you and good night

[moderated]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 05:11:28

 
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Poster: searchinbig Date: November 22, 2005 09:41:19pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Man - what a sad day.

Everything Jerry stood for.

By the way have Doug's guitars been returned or are they also wrapped up in some mumbo jumbo lawsuit.

How about corporate America?

What a joke.

Boycott is right - never another purchase from GDM.

What is the official stance?

Does anyone know?

I guess I'll still be SEARCHINBIG

 
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Poster: jbphburg Date: November 22, 2005 10:08:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Is there any official explanation for this anyway? Who made the decision? Absolutely heartbreaking to go to what's left of the shows and not be able to download. Amazing, very sad.

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 22, 2005 11:06:33pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47707

 
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Poster: rfs Date: November 26, 2005 11:26:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
There is a peitiion out there. check it out

www.petitiononline.com

 
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Poster: Robert_NC Date: November 22, 2005 10:17:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Might as well delete it all - the streams don't work anyway - I tried 4 or 5, none of them worked.

 
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Poster: whitelacestrange Date: November 22, 2005 10:22:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
damn..... i knew this day would come, i just never really thought about it. i only recently was showed this site and since im only 16 and therefore missed out on all the magic, i relied on this site, and all my dads bootlegs. i am thankful for the shows that i did manage to download, thank you so much archive.org, you have done more for us than you guys can imagine. its a shame deadheads have to be caught up in all this coorprate bull, it would be alot better if the dead were still on our side.
jerry is surely feeling our pain.

 
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Poster: Dodson Date: November 22, 2005 12:41:38pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Ouch! I have done almost nothing but listen to streaming audio up till now. I downloaded a few MP3s. I just upgraded my computer with the goal of building a pristine copy of 9/20/70. I have bought dozens of the records and CDs. And a dozen or so concert tickets. More if you count JGB and Robert Hunter shows. I started listening in 1973. Saw my first shows in 1974. I just sent $300 to GD merchandise for books and CDs. I would really like to get the show. Finding this site had sort of rekindled my interest. I understand pulling shows they are selling, but why the rest? I am glad to support the band and all, but why take the music away?

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 22, 2005 10:47:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
As you might appreciate, the site is no doubt under a heavy load tonight with all the changes.

 
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Poster: Robert_NC Date: November 22, 2005 11:30:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
403 is a security configuration error, not a server load error.

On a different note, not to be critical of LMA, because I assume LMA is not responsible, but I think everyone who submitted audience tapes should ask that they be removed completely.

The SBDs have always presumably been the property of The Grateful Dead.

The audience tapes were made under the policy that tapers were allowed to make, reproduce and distribute them FREELY. So the tapes are really the property of the original tapers and are to be traded FREELY as long as no money exchanges hands.

The streaming format basically violates this policy by preventing the free TRADE of the audio content of the original tapes. Tapers Unite!

This post was modified by Robert_NC on 2005-11-22 19:30:20

 
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Poster: markpj Date: November 22, 2005 12:10:52pm
Forum: etree Subject: bad marketing move from GD
bad move on the marketing end from grateful dead..only since i found this website have i been buying music from GD.. the memory was brought back to life from this site..sorry to all who will lose the chance to download there first show!

 
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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: November 22, 2005 10:36:18pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: bad marketing move from GD
Thats one of the first thoughts I had as well. I've been a dead-head forever and I just discovered this archive a couple weeks ago. I got all excited, asked a couple dozen internet friends "Are you into the Grateful Dead?" and they all said "no, not really". I asked "have you listened to much Dead?" and again, "no, not really". So I passed them a link to the classic performance of "Eyes Of The World" (3-29-1990) and said "here, listen to this". Every one of them (without exception) was totally blown away and every one of them asked whether that was really Grateful Dead. They all wanted more, so I said "ok, I'll compile a handful of links to some nice sample performances". I had just barely compiled a quick list and sent it along to a few of them yesterday. Within an hour they were telling me the links didn't work. Well, I guess we know why the links didn't work.

There's a new generation of potential dead-heads out there and they have internet access. The loss of this archive is a very bad business decision. If I were holding stock in this "company" I'd be selling as soon and the market opens today. (Yeah, I know, the Grateful Dead isn't a publicly traded company)

Many thanks and kudos to Brewster, Matt Vernon and any other players in the construction of this archive. I only wish I had found it sooner.

 
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Poster: brewster Date: November 22, 2005 12:20:52pm
Forum: etree Subject: website very slow
If you are getting a 403, please give us the URL.

We have having website troubles today as you all have noticed. We are not sure what the problem is, but it could be related to the Grateful Dead changes. We are working hard to put it together with folks that are on vacation and all.

Thank you for the patience.

-brewster

 
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Poster: brewster Date: November 22, 2005 12:50:36pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: website very slow
We believe we have the website at full speed again. (it seems it was fixed by optimizing and maybe uncorrupting an sql table).

Please let us know if there are continued problems.

-brewster

 
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Poster: Tyler Date: November 22, 2005 01:16:45pm
Forum: etree Subject: can I see some hits graphs?
Is there public data on website hits / unique hits that www.archive.org or it's subdivisions receive? (i.e. www.archive.org/audio) ?

I'm curious because we have public charts for users added per day, number of recordings added per day / month, all that .. I was just curious with today's (i'm sure) flood of GD related hits .. i'm just a number junkie. can I see some bandwidth / hit graphs?

This post was modified by Tyler on 2005-11-22 21:16:45

 
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Poster: Hatta Date: November 23, 2005 01:10:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: website very slow
"We believe we have the website at full speed again. (it seems it was fixed by optimizing and maybe uncorrupting an sql table)."

You're so forthcoming when it comes to technical problems with the site. Why can't you be so forthcoming when it comes to political problems? Are you afraid of getting sued?

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 22, 2005 10:22:12pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I think everyone who submitted audience tapes should ask that they be removed completely....

The streaming format basically violates this policy by preventing the free TRADE of the audio content of the original tapes....

First, would it be a positive act for a taper to take away what does remain for the patrons here, in the heat of emotion? I'd hope any Dead audio taper has the years of maturity to look at this from the larger perspective of fan enjoyment.

Second, there are many trading-oriented sites across the net, but IA is not actually one of them. It's an online public library. Any band's policy with respect to the Internet Archive may differ a lot from their policy with respect to trading. Current example: Dave Matthews Band. Example: Phish. Example: Galactic. This is another one of those cases.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 06:22:12

 
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Poster: brewster Date: November 22, 2005 12:40:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
If you are having trouble with the streams, please give us details. info@archive.org is a good address for details.

We have done what we can to keep as much access as possible.

Please help us debug our website.

-brewster

 
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Poster: liquidmike Date: November 23, 2005 11:41:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
It's amazing how spoiled a community can get and how viscious a supposedly "kind" group of people can be once they no longer get their way. I can't believe the crap that people are posting here.

How... long do you think the Dead and their people are supposed to keep giving stuff away for free? Jesus, you've had free (with a little work) music for my entire lifetime (I'm 33) and an amazing bounty of stuff at that. The fact that this was available in a fine digital format, again, for free, for any amount of time is phenominal. I realize there are other bands on here giving out music. That's great. See if they continue to do that once they aren't touring and making an income for themselves and their families and organizations.

I hope that all these people who are claiming to stay away from GDM and this site do just that. You don't deserve to have access to any of it. Maybe when you go without for a while you'll realize how sweet you had it here (and other places) and rethink some of your hateful mindsets.

Maybe this doesn't affect me like some people since I rarely used the site to burn anything. I streamed most of it anyway. How much cooler can you get than a 24hr GD radio? If I don't get to hear every Dark Star I think I'll get by on the opportunity to purchase a new one every now and then.

Grow up, move on with life. Don't expect a disbanded group to continue to feed your jones for their stuff for free forever just because they began life as a house full of hippies. They still put out a boatload of music at more than reasonable prices (in comparison to about 95% of the music biz) and you can still find things from people online

Looking at this bunch of crybabies makes me not want to visit this site ever again (I will however because I like it) just to distance myself from their crap. Don't like to pay for music? Don't buy it. Think ticket prices are too high? (This is a source for another discussion all together) Don't go. Make more room for me in the good seats in the smaller, more intimate venues. I have no problem paying $45 to see Phil and his band in a 4500 seat theater and I have no problem laying down $25 for a 3 or 4 disc set of live music.

Big thanks to the people that run this place and others like it. I knew the internet was a cool thing but sometimes you really get surprised by what you can find. Even if you can't find a SBD from somebody anymore.

[language moderated]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 19:41:43

 
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Poster: mops&brooms Date: November 23, 2005 03:39:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Amen Brother! I'm bummed because after telling myself I'm going to do it for month's, I tried to download some of the studio rehearsals this morning - a day too late! Damn those were fun to listen to. I had my eyes on some other shows as well but you snooze you lose.
Enough complaining from all the community's victims and want-something-for-nothings. Get over it! Think of something you can be "grateful" for and if you have trouble doing that then take a trip to New Orleans.

 
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Poster: TwinD Date: November 23, 2005 11:10:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Liquidmike you missed the point. We're not asking to be given anything except to continue ciruclating amongst ourselves music already in our possession using available technologies.

If we're greedy to want the music the same can be said about the GD organization for wanting more of our money.

This goes both ways.

It's about loyalty and trust and as far as I, and apparently many here, are concerned, GDP has violated both.

 
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Poster: bop9 Date: November 23, 2005 05:57:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
amen.

 
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Poster: anddave Date: November 25, 2005 07:10:34am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
except to continue ciruclating amongst ourselves music already in our possession using available technologies

yes...available technologies...like email, B&P, telephone...meeting folks at fests...

:) anddave

 
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Poster: markpj Date: November 23, 2005 12:19:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
your just plain mean

 
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Poster: wildturkey2oo0 Date: November 23, 2005 12:49:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I discovered the GD very late in my life and i really was amazed that such a lot of their music was freely available on e-tree - what a privilege to enjoy and to use, the shows belonged to all of us through the generosity of the band.I was disapointed to see that the sbd's had been removed by the members of the GD - however just to put things into perspective - a privilege does not constitute a right to their music.Who knows what the motivation behind this decision was?
Their music lives on and this is what counts - not if it is available for free. I will gladly pay for the reissues of their music in HDCD,Remasters and the Dick's Picks line - i feel every cent is well spent on me, i rather give up on a daily starbucks fix than to deprive myself off their music.
Also there is such a great amount of fantastic music ( again Free - thank all of you!)in the archive to help with the loss of the sbd's. Peace and all the best to everybody out there! Keep truckin' on!

 
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Poster: krawz Date: November 23, 2005 12:28:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
It amazes me that some people can get to a place where they believe that what is essentially private property can somehow belong to them.

You people out there that have convinced yourselves that you own the music need to get real. You did not create this art, and no one forced you to buy tickets or buy the music. Don't give me the Jerry line either. His context related to tapers.

The Dead owe us nothing and we all should be grateful that someone allowed us the gift of having what we had for any time at all; not to mention providing the basis for any kind "community" that may exist.

We paid for concerts and we paid for recordings. Some of us were luck enough to get bootlegs, and very few of us were privileged enough to get SBDs until the Grateful Dead allowed the SBDs to become available.

All you ungrateful people are going to accomplish by your tone is the ultimate demise of any free SBDs on the web.

I just hope that GDM and the people at the Archive realize that most heads out here are grateful, but are the silent majority. Try not to get too rattled by the few boisterous ingrates.

Thanks for everything from an 45 year old head.

 
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Poster: dwill1188 Date: November 22, 2005 10:16:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
this is ridiculous! first they want no more gd posting and now no more free shows? thanks to archive for sharing all these great shows with us, but this is terrible....is there anything we can do to get the shows back??

 
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Poster: rm128 Date: November 22, 2005 10:17:52am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thanks to the Archive for this wonderful service.

I planned on buying Dick's Pick's entire set. I saved money
for it. I have 6-7 already that I was going to give to a friend and have a brand new complete set. It looks as if I will have the complete set.... only it will be on CDR's bought at wal-mart.

I rather burn the $650 with a match now...

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 22, 2005 10:45:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
first they want no more gd posting

If it helps, moving to a new collection may mean you'll get a separate GD collection messageboard on site by default.

 
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Poster: corpclegg Date: November 22, 2005 10:12:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
This is very sad news for lossless traders everywhere.
your telling us your converting the music to no lossless.
so you can pollute the lossless music out there with this crap.i wont be getting any music from your site. same go's for all other LOSSLESS bootleg traders out there.Why do you think the band let fans have there own area to record in? jerry and the band knew what the fans wanted and gave it to them.so they and others could enjoy the shows for years to come. before you go any farther ask yourself is this what jerry would want? I think not!!
Sad Lossless music trader
corporal clegg


Attachment: jerry.jpg

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 22, 2005 10:44:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
In regard to lossless vs lossy: GD lossy derivatives have been made available here from the lossless parents for over a year, to little or no complaint. Since the now lossy-only public files will be formally moved out of the LMA into a separate collection (read Brewster's comments), their not being lossless will *not* be an issue affecting the LMA collection's philosophy.

In regard to trading: Any band's policy with respect to the Internet Archive may differ a lot from their policy with respect to trading. Current example: Dave Matthews Band. Example: Phish. Example: Galactic.

What is known about Dead trading:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~hamilton/gdnotice.txt
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~hamilton/gdp.txt

Note the differences in those from what is posted in Brewster and Matt's message.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-22 18:44:28

 
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Poster: Phukit Date: November 22, 2005 10:27:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
if any music community was policed & monitored by it's members it was the Grateful Dead trading community. I, like most traders, happily bought Dicks Picks, Ratdog, Other Ones, paying retail.

now it's gonna be polluted w/ lossy crap.

this is another example of penny wise & dollar foolish.

this gonna make many people think twice about gray areas of trading

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 22, 2005 10:51:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47664

 
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Poster: dwill1188 Date: November 22, 2005 10:31:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
are there ANY grateful dead shows available without using stream? the damn stream methoad does NOT work. and if it all has now been switched to stream, why the shortage of shows? very confused/concerned here.....

 
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Poster: toast6977 Date: November 22, 2005 10:59:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
This reminds me. There is a flower, that grows, and grows and grows, but it only blooms one time in its lifespan.

I think this is that flower, and I don't think it's blooms are very pretty.

Someone owes us an apology, and I don't think it's anyone in the band. (i could be wrong)

And, when it all boils down to the money, I won't feel so bad if at least the remaining members of the Grateful Dead get the money..

May anyone else be cursed with damnation.

 
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Poster: swedishhead Date: November 22, 2005 11:06:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
CRAP! how frustrating. what a wonderful, wonderful, WONDERFUL treat that was to have while it lasted. Come on guys - take what you need - leave the rest. This feels horrible. I was having so much fun. Now it's gone, gone, gone..nothin' left to do but smile, smile & count the money, honey.

 
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Poster: Vermontdeadhead Date: November 22, 2005 11:10:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Jumpin Jimminy you mean I'm not the only Swedish Deadhead out there? This really sucks.
Skol!!
Kevin Anderson
Vermontdeadhead

 
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Poster: AMDEW Date: November 22, 2005 10:45:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Wow, thats pretty much all I can say...
First I would like to thank archieve and all the people who spent countless hours uploading these shows for all of us to enjoy. You have done a great service for all of us, I know I have had countless hours of enjoyment from your hard work.

However GD merch(and any others involved in this decision), unbelievable! This is against everything that this band has believed in for over 30 years now. I would love for you to have one more family meeting, the kind where all the decisions were made for this band...Just think for a couple minutes if this ever would have flown with the leader of the band??
In my heart I know he is looking down on all of us shaking his head. He wasn't in it for the money, but now aparently the people that are running this are, what a sad day for the community.
I believe he once said "once were done playing them...I don't care what you do with them, their yours"...well I guess not anymore...very sad and disappointing.

"She wants money...money, money, money" Never a big fan of this song(till today), but oh how it rings true today.

The music never stopped...back to trades we go!

 
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Poster: PhunkyZen Date: November 22, 2005 11:08:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
http://streamripper.sourceforge.net

don't let greed stop people from getting some love :)

jerry would truly be saddened by this project being abruptly stopped.


 
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Poster: dead trail Date: November 22, 2005 11:09:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Does the imagery of the little boy with his finger in the dyke come to mind? Who is the little boy? It's a massive ocean of music that's now on the loose and the internet has many places to share. Between all of us that have been downloading, every show worth it's salt is now out of the bag. "Don't neglect to pick up what your share is!" "WE WILL SURVIVE!"

 
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Poster: Vermontdeadhead Date: November 22, 2005 11:16:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Is that Debbie the dyke???
It's time to get organized and share the wealth- We all have some if not all of the sbd's so how do we work around this little bump in the road to make them availlable again in an organized manner like IA provided?
Kevin Anderson
Vermontdeadhead

This post was modified by Vermontdeadhead on 2005-11-22 19:16:04

 
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Poster: chun Date: November 22, 2005 11:15:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
The preface to the GDP business plan, written by Jerry:

"We need to protect ourselves from believing that we are essentially a corporate entity"

 
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Poster: tcoursen Date: November 22, 2005 11:04:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Well, I am disapointed, just like everybody else.

I am a NEW GD fan. I first downloaded a show from another site a little over a year ago. Was curious, so I figured out a free download was the best way to go. Well I liked it. I soon picked up the Winterland DVD, which I think at the time had just come out. I really like that DVD and for the longest time that filled my interest.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. I am in a CD store and I see the 3 CD version of the Fillmore West 1969. I don't buy it, but go home and check it out on the net. I end up going back the next day and buying it after reading about it. Since then I have downloaded a few shows from here. I have also purchased Live/Dead, Skull and Roses, American Beauty and Workingman's Dead. All in the last two weeks. Skull and Roses was actually purchased today. Was gonna get Europe 72, but the store didn't have it. I definately have my eye on a few more releases.

Anyway, I saw the archive as a great way for me, as a NEW fan, to learn about the dead. Unfortunately most of the shows I did download were from 69. I absolute LOVE the 3 cd fillmore set and had got some other shows from that period. I was gettting ready to move on to future years. I had planned to go year by year. I had a whole long list of shows that I wanted to download. Probably, most likely, getting the official releases as I came to them.

I don't think I can boycott since I am now hooked and I really don't have all that much. How can I not go out and get things like Europe 72? Rockin on the Rhein? The Soundtrack to the Grateful Dead movie? Downloading shows from the same time period would not have stopped me from getting the official ones with the remastered/better sound. I did download 3 or the 4 Fillmore 69 shows. Would have downloaded the 2/28 show but I couldn't find it. I actually downloaded those shows after I bought the 3 CD set. If the 10 cd set was still available at this point I would have sold off the 3 cd set and had somebody get me the 10 cd set for X-mas.

So, my point is, this definately hurts NEW fans.

 
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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: November 22, 2005 11:02:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Man, I feel your pain through my friends that are/were on the verge of becoming dead-heads. Anyway, pick up the "Without A Net" album.

you're welcome in advance :D

 
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Poster: Pongo Date: November 22, 2005 11:10:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thankyou to archive.org for having provided this incredible service.

I had as much fun browsing the shows (and reviews) as I do listening to those I chose to download. Considering the vast amount of work that went into this project, would it not be reasonable to consider restoring what was there, with a message at the top right of each page: "This show not available for download"?

Surely all that work belongs to the Dead community, not the corporate entities?

I for one would still enjoy browsing the shows - even if I can't get them.

 
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Poster: brewster Date: November 22, 2005 12:17:02pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
All the show pages are still on the archive (if we dont have a hiccup) with all the reviews and such. this does belong to the dead community. but we did take the shows out of the search engine... this was a kludge to try to help keep searchers finding shows they can listen to.

If you can think of something else we should do, short of providing access again, please let us know.

-brewster

 
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Poster: raindog Date: November 23, 2005 05:53:26pm
Forum: etree Subject: Something you could do
How about setting up a simple database of dates, setlists and sources and allowing users to indicate that they are in possession of said show, facilitating person to person trades?

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 24, 2005 12:11:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead trading resource
It already exists, since ~2000: http://db.etree.org
Specific to Grateful Dead shows: http://db.etree.org/bs_d.php?artist_key=2
Specific to Grateful Dead lossless filesets: http://db.etree.org/shncirc/gd

(The last resource has existed online in some form since early 1999.)

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-24 08:11:23

 
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Poster: CharlesD Date: November 22, 2005 11:13:11am
Forum: etree Subject: What a bummer!
I've been a Deadhead for twenty years. I used to do some tape trading back in the day (still have about 50 shows). Recently I got an iPod & of course put my Dick's picks on it. Found this site YESTERDAY and was looking forward to building a nice collections of shows, listening to some of them today really brought back some great memories for me & I was looking forward to getting all the shows I went to & many others.

Oh well at least I got the 6 shows I pulled down last night. But it's really sad to see this fantastic resource snatched away from the world. I can't think why anyone who values what the Grateful Dead accomplished in their career would do this to the fans.

 
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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: November 22, 2005 11:13:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Bob Weir pulled the plug on RATDOG SBDs in 2003, and adopted Govt. Mule's "audience taping" policy except that it wasn't retroactive! It doesn't surprise if Deborah Koons a HOLLYWOOD studio refugee would try something that we might have expected from the RIAA. And wasn't that COURT TV trial in Marin County her public embarassment?

Jerry Garcia and David Grisman used to comment publicly about making bootleg tapes of bluegrass festivals. This is why we wound up with a bunch of GRATEFUL DEAD tapes later on.

Phil Lesh always said, that it was ours; when he was done playing the music. The "Friends" continue to distribute live concerts on their homepage; so I doubt that it was his idea to be the jerk-off.

Third party software makes it easier to record streaming audio with DSL or cable systems; so do your thing...

 
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Poster: dreamplanet9 Date: November 22, 2005 11:17:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
thanks for all your hard work
sharing the light is what it has always been about.
I stumbled into the archive just yesterday and felt like a little kid loose in a candy store.
all those shows that where the vehicle guiding us through the bardo night after night.
being there
and these recordings like the tardis transporting us beyond physical reality to the formless
how could they not reappear
breathe deep ... surrender...remember
remain in light
jerry lives

 
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Poster: dire--wolf Date: November 22, 2005 11:21:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Brewster, thanks for the info. Over the past year I have thoroughly enjoyed the access to Dead shows. I learned a lot about the process of digital download's and the music in which I love so much. The scope and magnitude of this situation is complicating my thought process, and because of my love for their music, I have only one thought right now, I am grateful for what I have. Seems like this was all a dream. I felt this site put us close to the band by allowing us to share in their history. Brewster, please, if there is anything I can do to help the situation, please ask. I LOVE THIS MUSIC. I study it. there is something highly interesting about hearing a song over and over again but being differet.....
Again, thank you for a real good time.

 
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Poster: HarveyII Date: November 22, 2005 12:20:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
responding to LMA folk:

thanks ever so much for your work. i appreciate it more than you can you ever know.

responding to GDM/GDP/the Band:

Do Ne Wa. I've bought all the all the music that deemed releaseable. Good or bad. Now you do this. You'll never get another $ from me.

 
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Poster: ReddyKillowatt Date: November 22, 2005 12:35:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Man, this is one of the worst things that has happen to me in a while. I'm really going to miss all this grateful dead music, and I listen to them all. Bad Move. Bad Move.

 
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Poster: jeffyjo Date: November 22, 2005 12:40:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I would like to thank the Archive for all the great help they provide me and everyone else getting great music from great bands.

With that said, I do think that losing the right to download boards from the Archive is not the best decision that could have been made in this situation, and I hope GDP reconsiders.

 
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Poster: ld2 Date: November 22, 2005 12:43:14pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Archive - Thanks for the tunes! I hope the real reasons behind the policy change can be shared with the dead community. Until then, I won't speculate. Ain't no time to hate.

 
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Poster: brewster Date: November 22, 2005 12:56:07pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Given the conversations, I think we have said what we could and should. What we are optimizing for is to bring as much access to great works as we can and give all involved time and space to learn.

I realize this is vague, for which I apologize. Most of all, I am sorry that there is a lot less great music on the site.

-brewster

 
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Poster: Wichita Date: November 22, 2005 11:30:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Removing the items that you have is the furtherest thing possible from optimizing the archieve.

What was here before this negative event occured was a great source for listening to music, downloading music, reading the excellent posts about how great the show was and the experience of those who attended the show. This brought people together. Today's actions only serves to tare them apart. And done on the day before thanksgiving shows no heart, soul or class.

That being said hopefully the powers that be will provide us with some information on why this action was taken and any steps that can be made to remedy the situation.

I for have never traded before and this site opened up a whole new world to me. I would gladly pay a fee to bring back the music that was so abruptly taken away from. I can only hope that something is being discussed and worked on so that we can get back to enjoying the music.

 
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Poster: jcroot Date: November 22, 2005 11:44:37pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
actually, check out db.etree.org for a huge number of friendly traders who will do blanks and postage and all sort of other scenarios. in fact you can start with me if you like. that way you don't have to pay anything - except for the blanks and postage.

 
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Poster: Wichita Date: November 23, 2005 03:53:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Hey. That's very cool. How should I get started. I would gladly send you discs and pay for postage.

6-16-74 and 6-18-74 are two shows that I love but never had the chance to download.

Thanks for your help.

 
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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: November 23, 2005 04:01:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Yeah, I'll ditto that... how can we contact one another?

Someone earlier suggested a yahoo interest group, or is the a better way?

 
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Poster: Down the road feeling bad Date: November 23, 2005 04:20:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I know its a small consolation but the nugs.net stash has your 6-16-74 show... mp3 may be better than nothing

 
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Poster: boomer1987 Date: November 23, 2005 04:54:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I have pretty much everything from that summer tour, SDB. njdfan@hotmail.com

 
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Poster: Wichita Date: November 23, 2005 05:26:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Hey bro. Thanks. I just sent an e-mail.

 
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Poster: jcroot Date: November 23, 2005 11:08:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
send me an email and the details and I can help once I get back from thanksgiving and all.

 
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Poster: macfawlty Date: November 23, 2005 03:39:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I agree wholeheartedly. I really don't expect anything for free and enjoyed downloading over 100 shows over the last 6 weeks since I was turned on to the archive. I am GRATEFUL. But the music must be made available. Archive had it all there in one place, organized well. I would gladly pay for shows, but even if the GDStore makes a bunch of shows available for a fee, it would likely be only table scraps by comparison. I am not sure the archive would really quite dig on a pay-for-download model as an adjunct to their site, but it would be the easiest way to go if someone has to get paid.

 
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Poster: connorscanlan Date: December 17, 2005 03:18:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Howdy yall,
well im only 18 an dive got a decent tape collection...long story about that.....but im just so bummed out about this. i just dfont understand why they did it...its just such a huge part of the community, and its not like we dotn spend money [mod] ive bought t shirts stickers box sets...i feel betrayed...i dunno, but my boss told me the other day that bob changed his mind? is this true?

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-12-17 11:18:05

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: December 17, 2005 03:16:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: GD FAQ
http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#215

 
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Poster: Hatta Date: November 23, 2005 12:11:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Sorry, that's just not good enough. This level of secrecy is just further proof that either the Dead don't care about their fans, or the Archive operators don't care about their users. All you will get for this secrecy is conspiracy theories.

This dirty laundry needs to be aired. How are we to know who to write if we don't know who's decision it is? How do we even know what the relevant arguments are?

Honesty is the best policy.

 
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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: November 23, 2005 12:19:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
i would find it very hard to believe that the Archive operators do not care about their users. Its most likely not their fault the shows got pulled right after getting good publicity in Time mag.

 
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Poster: Hatta Date: November 23, 2005 12:28:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Then why the secrecy? Whose reputation are they protecting? Don't they realize that keeping this under cover damages EVERYONE's reputation?

Even if the GDM asked that their correspondance not be shared, that's not legally binding. Just a nice request. Why play nice with the dead when they won't play nice with us?

 
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Poster: shakedown_04092@yahoo.com Date: November 23, 2005 08:06:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thank you SOOOOOO much to all who have made this site one of the best things to happen to me music-wise the past couple of years. You DO deserve a standing ovation for your generosity & kindness by allowing us to have such an incredible access to so many shows.

That said, my initial feeling was not quite that of the day Jerry passed, but it was in the same block. I am horrified.

I would love to help work with anyone else who wants to try to get something else started, whether it be trading hard drives, starting a new site, or resorting to the oldschool way of postage & blanks. Please let me know where to go or what to do - I need direction & want to help. Thanks. Benjamin M. St. Clair

shakedown_04092@yahoo.com

 
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Poster: Tyler Date: November 26, 2005 05:32:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Why play nice with the dead when they won't play nice with us?

because the files aren't deleted. they are just 'dark' .. the shows may come back some day, and when the GDP says so, the shows can all come back in a click of a mouse. If you don't play nice, that day may never come. if you do, it all might come back..

 
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Poster: Dr.Rock Date: November 25, 2005 03:19:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES

I am very sad to lose such a wonderful resource. I want to thank everyone who made this possible while it lasted.

This site was the THE GREATEST.

I got about 200 shows while it lasted, and I am willing to share!

We we all have to find a new way to keep the spirit of this community alive.

I am looking forward to knowing you all on a more personal basis, because sharing shows will now have to be done differently.

It would be cool if we could keep adding to the collection of reviews, as I find them entertaining an informative. Maybe we could keep the reviews somewhwere else, where the could be added to.

I'll miss you all... until we meet again

Thank You, Matt in Humboldt

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 26, 2005 12:17:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
It would be cool if we could keep adding to the collection of reviews, as I find them entertaining an informative. Maybe we could keep the reviews somewhwere else, where the could be added to.

Yes, if you look at the very parent post in this thread you are replying to, you will find the plan that includes that idea. http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47634


This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-26 08:17:49

 
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Poster: gypsybird Date: November 27, 2005 05:21:44pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
hey matt in humboldt!

i'm in arcata, i'd just recently begun to rebuild my collection (having lost most of my tapes over the years)... i'd love to have a local contact for trades, or blanks, or whatever...
shoot me an email, raveninflightATsbcglobalDOTnet

thanks~


 
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Poster: timray-wcupa Date: November 28, 2005 10:54:02pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Greetings, all--

I want to thank the Archive for all that they did in providing us with this invaluable resource. While this resource has been appreciated by all of us to the utmost level, I had a particular appreciation for this resource because I am an academic and had/have been using these recordings as a resource in my scholarship on the Dead (something that I think speaks directly to the overall purpose of the Archive as an online library). The fact that these shows have been removed is disappointing, to say the least. Like many of you, I was actually in the middle of downloading a show (from October 1968) when the music stopped, so to speak. What a drag.

Since it now looks like we're back to the pre-IA days, I'd like to say that I do have more than 1,000 hours of shows from pre-Dead through 1995 and have cataloged them in a MS Excel file and would be willing to trade shows with anyone who is interested. These shows are in MP3 format, so that probably eliminates about half those who would be interested. Also, I don't have a whole lot of time for burning, so you'd have to be patient with me. Nevertheless, the silver lining in all this is that we as Deadheads may get to know each other better as a community as a result of this decision. If you're in the S.E. PA area, we could even meet up and get to know each other and build some friendships and listen to some shows together while we're copying each other's shows. Deadheads are nothing if not resourceful, and if we are resourceful, we may find some good that can come from this seemingly shortsighted decision.

If you'd like a copy of my Excel file, please e-mail me at

deadheadtimo@gmail.com

Tim

 
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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: November 22, 2005 12:42:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thank you to everyone at the LMA who made this experiment possible while it lasted. It will be sorely missed. It can't get over how narrow-sighted this seems, from both a marketing and public relations perspective.

We will get by...

 
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Poster: Hatta Date: November 22, 2005 12:41:46pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Based on discussions with many involved, the Internet Archive has been asked
to change how the Grateful Dead concert recordings are being distributed
on the Archive site for the time being.

-----

I assume this took place on a mailing list of some sort? Can we see the archives for this list so we can reply appropriately to GD management? Or is this a secret decision handed down from above with no concern for the fanbase that made this band great?

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 22, 2005 10:29:13pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47707

 
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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: November 22, 2005 12:44:52pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thank you to everyone at the archive who made this experiment possible while it lasted.

We will get by...

 
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Poster: hungrydawg Date: November 22, 2005 12:41:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: sad day indeed
To LMA folks and contributors: what a beautiful project and thank you all so much.

To the band and management: based on the comments I see here from many of your fans, it is clear that some feel betrayed. I think an explanation of your decision would help. It does seem contrary to your taping policy. The only real changes from the old days are 1) the internet made the exchange of your recorded live music much more efficient and prolific and 2) you started selling live recordings on a large scale basis. It follows then that you basically are rethinking your policy out of greed. I want to believe that is not true, so please...provide us with another explanation.

 
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Poster: backslider Date: November 22, 2005 01:06:08pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: sad day indeed
Well Said and a hearty hear here!

 
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Poster: Doc Hollywood Date: November 29, 2005 12:33:44pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: sad day indeed
Note John Barlow's previous comments on internet music "commerce":

http://homes.eff.org/~barlow/EconomyOfIdeas.html


Anyone else wonder what his take on this turn of events is?

 
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Poster: Eric Geffner Date: November 22, 2005 12:56:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
OK people, the time to act is NOW... here is the address to write to:

(person's name)
GDP, Inc.
Box X.
Novato, CA 94948.

Write them and get your friends to do so also, snail mail people, it will make a bigger impact. If you have a local deadhead scene like we do in LA at the cubensis cover band shows get them all involved also. Ask friends to write, write the letter for them and have them sign it. I am not sure if the letter goes to phil or bob, or just the dead...
but I am sure either will be fine. Mention that you will boycott all future dicks picks, digital downloads, and other stuff until they change it. Complaining here is not going to be very helpful. Thanks to the achive staff and the uploaders but now we must get organized and get serious about this....

 
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Poster: Frankie Flowers Date: November 22, 2005 01:04:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Dark Day
How darkly ironic that this wonderful resource should be silenced on the anniversary of the assassination of JFK. Nice timing. Couldn't wait for Jerry's birthday?

I commend the archivists for their work, and I thank all who contributed Dead concert recordings. I was able to relive some very special moments and explore some wonderful shows not already on any of my several Dick's Picks CDs.

I have already expressed my intense dismay to those responsible, a sentiment made all the more acute by the fact that I only discovered this resource quite recently. Luckily, I downloaded furiously until tonight.

I plan to boycot GDP as well, effective immediately.

-FF

Attachment: Garcia and Wolf.jpg

 
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Poster: gyrograph Date: November 22, 2005 01:24:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: thanks brewster...
hey brewster:

What a beautiful showing on your part. The archive is an amazing thing. I will miss the more "complete" Dead show service, but I really must say it has been a great effort -- outstanding, really.

The people at GDP and Garcia Estate need to undestand this: The Live Music Archive has driven me to look around in record stores, and purchase more Dead-related discs than I have in years. If the monetary value of the recordings has increased, one can say that the Archive deserves healthy credit for the upswing.

Otherwise, i will always stop by the Archive -- the video stuff is growing and can be as compelling as the audio.

I hope the Archive surges forward... I ask the taper-friendly bands of the world to NOT let this have a chilling effect on the digital distribution of their music. Relatively free distribution of Grateful Dead recordings may be the Dead's most intelligent commercial decision ever (to paraphrase Mr. Lesh).

Thanks again!

-- Gyro

PS: Thanks Diana and Brad, as well.

 
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Poster: swedishhead Date: November 22, 2005 02:21:44pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
What a wonderul period it was to be able to download, listen and read commentary from fellow fans in the Grateful Dead section of Archive.org. Thank you Charlie Miller for all your wonderful, wonderful contributions - as well as the many others who contributed quality recordings for ours - the users who listened to and were turned on to the myriad of previously unheard and inaccesible recordings - this was quite a treat.

I am dissapointed in the GDOrgs decision - it would be helpful to hear their official side of the story. They may not feel they owe that to us, but I would hope they would consider this fan base one of their most perenial and thoughtful - if not perhaps influential - and to that end decide to officially convey their story as to why this decision was made at this stage in the game. Communication never hurts - non communication can. Due to this lack of communication, I am withholding judgement on whether or not I will support - in a monetary fashion - any future recordings. As long as I'm undecided vis a vis incommunication - I will refrain from doing so.

Went to see the captain
strangest I could find
Layed my proposition down
Layed it on the line;
I won't slave for beggar's pay
likewise gold and jewels
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Ship of fools
on a cruel sea
Ship of fools
sail away from me

It was later than I thought
when I first believed you
now I cannot share your laughter
Ship of Fools

Sincerely
Jamie

 
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Poster: swedishhead Date: November 22, 2005 02:33:17pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
What a wonderul period it was to be able to download, listen and read commentary from fellow fans in the Grateful Dead section of Archive.org. Thank you Charlie Miller for all your wonderful, wonderful contributions - as well as the many others who contributed quality recordings for ours - the users who listened to and were turned on to the myriad of previously unheard and inaccesible recordings - this was quite a treat.

I am dissapointed in the GDOrgs decision - it would be helpful to hear their official side of the story. They may not feel they owe that to us, but I would hope they would consider this fan base one of their most perenial and thoughtful - if not perhaps influential - and to that end decide to officially convey their story as to why this decision was made at this stage in the game. Communication never hurts - non communication can. Due to this lack of communication, I am withholding judgement on whether or not I will support - in a monetary fashion - any future recordings. As long as I'm undecided vis a vis incommunication - I will refrain from doing so.

Went to see the captain
strangest I could find
Layed my proposition down
Layed it on the line;
I won't slave for beggar's pay
likewise gold and jewels
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

Ship of fools
on a cruel sea
Ship of fools
sail away from me

It was later than I thought
when I first believed you
now I cannot share your laughter
Ship of Fools

Sincerely
Jamie

 
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Poster: tamb Date: November 22, 2005 02:32:43pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: SAD SAD DAY INDEED
Its A sad day when after a month of downloading, all this what the dead stood for is gone for now, Remember fellows, Jerry is watching all of you!!!

 
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Poster: ReddyKillowatt Date: November 22, 2005 02:39:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Yes i want to thank Charlie for those awesome shows. And everybody else involved in of having these great shows.

 
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Poster: Ole Uncle John Date: November 22, 2005 08:43:52pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
On the 42nd anniversary of losing JFK we lose our beloved Grateful Dead.

Sure there will be other ways to gather the music, and it could be more fun, but the sad revelation is that deep within the heart of what was once the Grateful Dead is just darkness. Cold, impersonal,calculating greed. Timed no doubt to increase Christmas purchases the tainted remnant of our favorite band gives us the Thanksgiving week gift we'll never forgive.

RIP Grateful Dead spirit, and like with JFK we may never know who pulled the trigger.

 
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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: November 22, 2005 10:38:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
A sad day indeed. I would love to hear the official word from the money grabbers on this issue.
Thanks to all involved with the Archive in hosting these great shows - it was great while it lasted. (of course there is still tons of great music here!!!)
I will certainly be boycotting all GD merchandise as well. I've spent way too much money on shows, commercially released cd's, shirts, etc to be happy about this latest development.
If I had the time I would love to copy all my Dick Pick's etc and give freely to everyone who doesn't have them just to stick it to the corporate entity that was at one time the Grateful Dead. I have always been against making copies of commercially realeased cd's, but I will certainly be doing this for local head friends who have been planning on making purchases. now i know what to give people for xmas.
Again, thanks to the archive for allowing me the opportunity to download about 150 gigs of GD shows.

 
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Poster: Kodos Date: November 30, 2005 05:04:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
First of all I'd like to say, I'm officially torn.
As a musician I see the point of protecting your intellectual property, especially in this age of faster-than-instant gratification where everything is expected 5 minutes ago and for free or next to nothing. Anything "officially" released under the GD banner falls into this realm of intellectual property, imo. Don't post it, period. Being a musician is a job and I sure as hell aint going to show up to my job and give them my time for free.

That being said .... I remember an old interview with the band where the discussion came up of letting fans tape shows. The response was something along the lines of (sic) "Once we're done with it they can have it" regarding live performances. I can see where anything that exists in the Deads vault is their property. Pull that stuff if you like, its theirs, the recording work was done on their dime and they are entitled to whatever they can get for it. What I absolutely do not like is the pulling of ALL SBD's. Say I pay my way into a show, have a tapers ticket, sit in the tapers section and am under the impression that I can record this show with my personal equipment for no additional cost. I strike up a conversation with Dan Healy. He (a paid employee of the band, in charge of the sound mix) says "hey, put the mikes away, toss me a cord and I'll patch you in, man." The band has their own tape rolling and now you have a copy of what they are getting to put into their vault. Win, win. I see absolutely NO REASON to pull stuff like this that has a verified lineage. Although I admit, it would be next to impossible to police :/

This community has existed on the concept that the music was almost sacred. You trade, you give, you circulate the live experience to your friends and loved ones. Thus the Archive has done a service that has touched SO many people that it cannot be quantified. Thank you all!

I wish the Band nothing but good thoughts. PLEASE, a statement or something would be appreciated :)

 
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Poster: fungo Date: December 02, 2005 12:38:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Kodos says: "I can see where anything that exists in the Deads vault is their property."

Yes, the Dead DO own "anything that exists in the Deads vault"... i.e. the physical tapes. But what we're talking about here are recordings that exist outside that vault.

To suggest that the Dead "own" the MUSIC itself, though, would be a tragic misunderstanding of "intellectual property." Intellctual property is NOT "property," and artists do NOT "own" their creations. Rather, they are granted a very limited right to temporarily control the distribution of those creations, purely for the purpose of encouraging further creations. There are good reasons for this approach, and it is the breakdown of this wise and just system that's doing the most harm to creators today.

As it happens, much of the Dead's classic work should, by rights, be in the public domain by now. US copyright was originally less than 30 years... more than enough time for artists to profit adequately from their work. (That takes us up into the mid- to late-1970s - say, everything prior to Terrapin Station.) Attempting to control (and profit from) works for many decades after the original creators have died is a very recent perversion of "intellectual property."

I too am a content creator. I still get paid for CREATING content, just as I'm sure Kodos still gets paid for actually playing music. Whether either of us can expect to be paid indefinitely for the mere existence of this content is something that remains to be seen.

Most people do only get paid once for the work they do, you know. And the Dead did make a good living off ticket sales. There's no cosmic law that says they (or "GDM," a corporate entitly that had nothing to do with creating the music) should be allowed to reap endless profits from that same labor.

I think the Grateful Dead knew this: that all human creations ultimately belong to all of us. GDM clearly does not.

 
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Poster: RhodyRed Date: November 22, 2005 10:03:57pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Matt and Vernon, thanks for all your work. I am truly saddened. This archive was wonderful, it wasn't only the choice of shows but also the reviews, ratings and ease of searching. I had been really stoked discovering new eras of the Dead and really honing in on the shows that spoke to me. Hopefully this is temporary. Streaming isn't a viable option. Not sure why this occured but it's reasonable to assume it's based on revenue and economics. I've spend a lot of money over the years buying shows, tickets and what not. I've always pointed out to people that the Dead did things different and were able to survive just fine, and in fact prospered, by allowing tapers and such. Maybe now that the barrier to entry, for creating great sounding CD's, is so low with minimal costs incurred and the simplicity of trading shows so simple, the Dead have had to change policies and become more corporate. The particular reasons why are much less interesting the sad fact that a truly wonderful resource has been lost.

What a bummer of a way to start the day though. In the past I'd had deleted the Source files after downloading/burning to conserve space because after all the shows were on the archive... Now I wish I hadn't and I hope the few shows (only about 10) I have from the archive haven't been damaged because I don't know any tapers or traders from whom to get more music. And frankly I can't afford to spend $25-30 for a new show several times a year.

On a constructive note. Maybe something could be arranged where "members/patrons who donate a reasonable sum to the Archive" get priviledges to download. I'd pay $30-$50, but not $100 a year to be a supporter of the Archive if one of the privledges was downloading Dead shows again, possibly even without soundboards. Or I'd pay a nominal fee per show say $1 or $2 a disc. That way the Dead could be Donors by allowing the Archive to offer this service for "patrons", the Archive would be able to generate revenue to pay for storage, bandwidth, maintenance, salaries, etc., and the public would be still be able to be exposed to the wide variety of music.

Hopefully things will change back soon. Thanks, RhodyRed


 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 22, 2005 11:33:13pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
...it wasn't only the choice of shows but also the reviews, ratings...

See the plan:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47634

"The metadata and reviews for all shows and recordings will remain available."

 
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Poster: bfuller Date: November 22, 2005 11:59:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Can someone point me to the original statement announcing this new policy? I've yet to find it.

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 23, 2005 12:10:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
This *is* the statement, at the top of this thread:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47634

 
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Poster: bfuller Date: November 23, 2005 12:09:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thanks Diana....back to blanks and postage I guess

 
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Poster: harold920 Date: November 23, 2005 01:00:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
So, whose decison was it to get rid of the soundboards? I have a quote that I would like us all to ponder. It comes from John Perry Barlow form the October 6, 2005 issue of Rolling Stone magazine. "I want it to be possible for my grandchildren to hear the music the Grateful Dead did. Ithink it'll be a hell of a lot more possible it it's on Archive.org than if it isn't." So, who are you accountable?

 
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Poster: DEADBUCK Date: November 22, 2005 10:44:18pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
New steal your face ideas....one with the IA symbol in it...or maybe with a big dollar sign in it.....I can almost sympathize with em but they must realized that when they cancelled the boston run in 95 to close the gahden they cancelled alot....and its ok they did cuz im outa grass and their music sucks w/o jerry. These other ones are now gonna end up like peter frampton...playing used up amusement parks...notice they dont fill stadiums anymore...cuz they let the music stop....they let the wheel stop and the lightning got em....something jerry kept from happening with all the piano players they pissed through...enuff said...ten years and jerry is ripped away again....and Happy Thanksgiving....Brokedown douche bag.
I am going out to shoot a deer now...and f your need to capitalize.

 
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Poster: Jellybones Date: November 22, 2005 11:22:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
UNBELIEVABLE.



Well, it is believable, I'm just in denial. No way I'd ever pay twenty bucks to download some .shn's, I've dropped thousands on Dead stuff over the years, especially concerts. I own all thier studio albums, lots of dicks picks and live releases, a bunch of dvds, shirts, posters....

This site allowed me to really get into various periods of the Dead's history, and only made me want to buy any specific releases that were out from each period. No more exploring, no more experimenting looking for new sounds and shows... unless you have $19.99 on your credit card available.

Thank you archive and the contributers for letting me get what I could in the time it was available.

To the boys...WHY? (I understand people think its not them, but as far as I know, they still own thier own rights...you don't think they get the final say?)

Hans in Jax

 
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Poster: hzgone Date: November 23, 2005 12:02:34am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
if i read the two documents that diana put up correctly, then you can't trade the commercially released version that the dead has put out. It still says you can trade other soundboards, just not they ones that were put out by the dead. So why pull everything off the archive. Why not just pull what was release by the dead and leave the rest. I don't get what is going on. For all the tapers that uploaded aud versions, why are those not avail? Everything that has been posted on why the shows were pulled does not make any sense at all.

 
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Poster: sc-pierce Date: November 22, 2005 11:34:33pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thank you archive for everything you have done to share the music.

Hopefully, your site won't be boycotted because there is a lot of great up and coming bands here.

As far as the Dead goes...well, they just died. This is clearly about money. What a great way to give thanks to the fans - the people responsible for the band's popularity to begin with. They seem to have forgotten one key issue: no fans = no band = no money. Alienate the fans and you cut your income stream. I bet we'll see all the old SBDs for sale in the next couple weeks. Too bad. Sorry Jerry! RIP! Sorry for the decisions of a few that will forever tarnish the music you helped create.

To the fans:
If you have SBD copies there are other places to share. Please do so. Lossless copies are better than no copies at all and much better than paying for copies that were free last week. For fear of the moderator editing my comment I won't put the sites here. I, like many other posts, used the stream of most of the SBDs, but couple I do have I will share.

There are other good bands on this site. Experiment.

Peace.

 
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Poster: Dead.Doc Date: November 22, 2005 11:54:41pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I'm so sad. I was downloading GD and NRPS Filmore East May 15, 1970 and something didin't go right and the files wouldn't open. I went back and it was gone. I almost cried. I'm glad I downloaded what I did when I did, and I'm kicking myself for not downloaded more.

I hope someone re-thinks this and gives us back this treasure chest of joy. This Christmas would be a nice gift! I'll figure out the trading thing I guess. I was out of the loop so long (since the late 80s) that I hadn't figured that network out.

Thanks to Archive.org for the joy while it lasted.

 
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Poster: harold920 Date: November 23, 2005 12:35:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
In the October 6, 2005 edition of the Rolling Stone, there is an article praising your work. One of the contributors is none other than John Perry Barlow. In this article he says "I want it to be possible for my grandchildren to hear the music the Grateful Dead did. I think it'll be a hell of a lot more possible if it's on Archive.org than if it isn't." You can find this quote on page 92. So, if one of the main players of the Grateful Dead family has that to say, what is the real reason that you did this little "experiment"?

 
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Poster: harold920 Date: November 23, 2005 12:47:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Who are you serving by taking away the soundboards of the grateful Dead? There is an article in the October 6, 2005 issue of Rolling Stone magazine praisng your work. There is a qwuote from none other thatn John Perry Barlow. "I want it to be possible for my grandchildren to hear the music the Grateful Dead did. I think it'll be a hell of a lot more possible if it's on Archive.org that if it isn't." What is your response to not only the legions of fans but to a member of the Grateful Dead Family?

 
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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: November 23, 2005 03:17:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
harold that was an awesome point made about barlow. if a... member of the dead family is praising archive- then what... are you thinking? besides going to war, this is one of the worst decisions anyone has ever made.

[moderated- please do not use foul language. -mod]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 11:17:03

 
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Poster: mops&brooms Date: November 23, 2005 02:54:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Just like the small window of time when LSD was legal and the Dead incubated and hatched, now the unlikely window on their free unlimited soundboard downloads and streams has also closed. But hey, how about opening it back up just wide enough for us to be able to pay you for the music? Can't you make available once again all those tasty shows INCLUDING THE INCREDIBLY FUN TO LISTEN TO STUDIO REHEARSALS for a price? No shame in that. You guys are running a business. It's all your intellectual property and no one should expect something for nothing. I think I'm leaning to the right in my old(er) age.

Who remembers that guy they interviewed during the intermission in the Grateful Dead Movie who refused to speak and went off about usage rights and stuff like that? He cracked me up.

BRING BACK THE MUSIC!!!!!!!! (please)

Thank LMA for everything you do.

 
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Poster: mops&brooms Date: November 23, 2005 03:27:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
PLEASE BRING BACK THE STUDIO REHEARSALS!!!!

Thanks LMA.

Let's not get our armpit hairs all in a knot. We can do without some of that anger.

 
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Poster: macfawlty Date: November 23, 2005 02:48:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
A friend turned me on to this site about a month and a half ago. I have been downloading like a FIEND ever since but didn't consider that it would all go away. Nonetheless, I already downloaded some 120 shows so I feel ever so GRATEFUL. During that time I also purchased the '69 LE Box set and downloaded a show from the Dead store. I have probably 20 of the Dick's Picks and despite getting free music from LimeWire and other sites, I continue to buy a lot of CDs. Rather than get tremendously upset about it all my biggest concern is that of availability (at whatever reasonable cost necessary). What I cannot fathom is that the music would not be available. I don't mind paying reasonably for music but it must continue to be available. Regardless of whoever is responsible for making the music unavailable, it must be made available on gdstore in download format. So charge modestly by the show or the song or whatever but don't take it out of our hands.

 
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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: November 23, 2005 03:47:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
[removed by poster request- mod]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-23 11:47:17

 
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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: November 23, 2005 03:28:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
thanks for moderating my post. now it means nothing. you might as well delete my first post if youre going to screw with it like that.

no more am i going to support the grateful dead with my money. no cds, no dicks picks, no shirts, no posters, no nothing.
ill be searching for people who have the music.
not giving in to the corporation.

and whoever said this was right- 11/22/05 RIP The Grateful Dead

that music means so much to me. its changed my life.
and now its gone because they want to make money.

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 23, 2005 03:48:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Done.

 
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Poster: markpj Date: November 23, 2005 03:38:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
just the worst marketing move on there part possible.. my interest and purchase of any dicks picks or the 69 release was possible only my my re-interest brought on by this site.. so now i feel awful that i have no chance of getting a good sounding board, I just do not understand cause phil provides soundboards of his show..any way bad move on the part of the GD $$$ machine

 
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Poster: Christopher J Date: November 23, 2005 03:27:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
First, let my wife and I say a heartfelt "thank you" to the Internet Archive for the wonderful resource that it is. We have downloaded political speeches, Buddhist lectures, and many other things over which we stumbled as we were downloading Grateful Dead shows over the past few years. Our beef is not with anyone from the Archive. To the surviving members of the Grateful Dead, however, we say this: We will never, ever, ever purchase any Dead-related product or service again. No Dick's Picks, no Download Series, no official release on Arista or any other label, and nothing with a dancing bear, steal your face, skull & roses, or any other symbol or image of the Grateful Dead, all of which have become so dear to us over the past thirty or so years (we actually met at a Grateful Dead show many years ago). Nor will we ever buy a ticket to any show with a former member of the Grateful Dead. And my wife is actually considering have her skull & roses tattoo removed from her skin via laser. After all these years of sharing the groove while making sure that we stuck to the no-money-must-ever-change-hands policy like glue, and making sure that we purchased the official commercial release of all things Dead to express our thanks---to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars!---they come out and do this FOR THE MONEY or at least for the POTENTIAL LOST REVENUE!

That's it. We're totally done. I literally just took my professionally-mounted photos and posters down from the walls of our home and have packed them in a box with all other Dead-related stuff including books, clothes, and more nick-nacks than I can possibly count. Thanks for the music, Bill, Bob, Mickey, and Phil, but we choose no longer to support your bands---spiritually or financially!---with decisions like this. We wish you and your families well, and may you all have peace within your hearts as you enter your "Golden Years," but we can no longer support four men who have little, if any, regard for their loyal fans who quite literally made it all possible.

Thank you,

Christopher and Lori Evans

 
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Poster: MttnDew Date: November 23, 2005 04:11:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Make your boycott official!! Sign the petition!!

http://www.petitiononline.com/gdm/petition-sign.html?

 
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Poster: Paucus Date: November 23, 2005 05:20:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
People,
this is getting absurd. Keep on truckin'...
We should all just be grateful all the tapes and soundboards had been easily available for such a long time. They still are out there, you can still get them, all of them.
No one knows for sure why this was done. Perhaps they had good reasons.. until we know, move on.
Peace

 
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Poster: Christopher J Date: November 23, 2005 05:36:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
With all due respect, Paucus, the GD should be equally grateful---perhaps moreso!---that they had such a loyal fan base that stuck with them for years and years and years and was willing to part with their hard-earned money (and lots of it) when times weren't quite so good (i.e. prior to about 1986 or so). They really should have guaged what the reation would be by taking something away that was free. It's not like they decided against it right from the get-go; rather, they made a conscious decision to take away a free service because it could potentially generate revenue for them in the future. I think everyone's point is that if Bob, Bill, Phil, and Mickey want to bring this down to money, then let's try to get the service back through witholding ours; that is, exercising the principal of consumer sovereignty within a free market. I could give you 10 examples off the top of my head when consumers bound together to enact change within a market. I think the feedback this issue has generated really shows how much this music really, truly does mean to people.

 
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Poster: Jason Blackmore Date: November 23, 2005 06:23:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I bet this is part of the deal with ITUNES. Now What, am I going to have to pay $0.99 for every "Dark Star" I want to hear. Come on folks, You can start charging for things that are already free. I will lose alot of respect for the whole GD organization if this continues and doesn't return to it's old status. It cost the Grateful Dead NOTHING to host these "Bits of memories" on archive.org so it's not like they are saving money here.

I read from GANS BLOG that GD organization had a layoff and cut one of there road crew...well guess what, You don't tour, then members of the Road Crew have to be let go, That's just fact, Period...It has nothing to do with the recordings at all and I don't feel like me downloading or not downloading shows made any difference in the situation at all...

We already have to pay for "The Dead" recordings, Ratdog, and the 30+ Dick's Picks that are out there (and I know that alone is more then 95% of others bands whole catalogs). Folks, We gladly by the Dick Picks and studio albums to support the band....DON'T CAPITALIZE ON THE AUDIO RECORDINGS now...or we will turn our backs on the once liberal band that now has turned into capitalist trying to squeeze every ounce out of a fan base that supported it through thick and thin...

 
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Poster: markpj Date: November 23, 2005 06:50:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
good point..the downloads got me back into the grateful dead music and prompted me to "purchase" I have no idea how much $$ I have already spent on the boys. and my girlfriend said to me see it is all about the money..bobby why sell out to I-tunes you 89kjjh82667868....

 
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Poster: Swampo Date: November 23, 2005 06:41:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I remember John Lennon saying "What's everyone upset about? It's just a Rock band. You still have the records to listen to" At the time, that didn't make any sense. The Beatles were so much more than just a band to so many people. After some years have gone by, it is now more understandable. The Dead were more than just a band too, but in time, since the band seems to be finished making music together, this will also make more sense. Remember the old saying, 10,000 years from now, no one will give a shit. If the band has gotten to the point the money has become more important than the music and unique feeling that they generated, than I'm over it too. Thanks for the ride. It will always have a big place in my soul. At least I have the music I wanted as long as the CD format lasts. Love to all.

 
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Poster: BigJilm Date: November 23, 2005 07:43:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
The funny thing about this thread (if you read it all) is how many people are crying, bitching, moaning...etc...how they have been let down, screwed over (insert big WAAAAAAA here). Like ANY band that allows taping/trading, it is a Privilege, not a right.
The only reason any band has to give for changing a taping policy is "because we want to". Is it a bad decision? maybe. Will it lower concert attendance? Probably, only because people with 'something to prove' will boycott the band. That'll show em', "I'm going to stop seeing a band I really enjoy because I can't get something for free." I'm sure they will be missed.
Of course we can't forget the clairvoyants out there. the ones who only started following the Dead because they knew in the future you will be able to obtain almost any show from the Internet, for free. Now after the years of support (because they only wanted the free DL's,not because they...gasp....really liked the band/music) they have been burned.
I am really sad to see the shows go. I, like many, wish I had DL'd more than I did. But, you just have to admit it's over when it is. It's over. Maybe for now. Maybe forever. Either way, there are other ways to get quality shows. Time spent ranting on the archive is time lost finding them elsewhere.

 
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Poster: markpj Date: November 23, 2005 07:50:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
don't you get it ??

 
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Poster: BigJilm Date: November 23, 2005 07:51:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I 'get' that I spent multiple thousands of dollars over the many years supporting the Dead. I did this with the sole purpose of enjoying THE MOMENT. A Concert, a new record or CD. A shirt I wanted...whatever. The band is quite obviously and clearly not what it used to be in terms of how big of venues they play, crowd draw...etc...
Unfortunatly when the machine was steamrollin' there were many people involved. Now that they are slowly losing out to fans getting into new bands, getting "too old", new fans not coming in the number they used to....whatever. They have to decide how to keep the people they have employed....well, employed. I'm sure everyone would be happy if they just said "sorry Johnny Worker, we have to continue to keep our music free. You have to find a new job" At an age and time when it probably isn't too good of an outlook for someone to do so. You know, keeping in the spirit of the 'scene' and all.
Don't YOU get it?

 
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Poster: markpj Date: November 23, 2005 08:05:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
ohh ya, I get the fact that for many years ,i lost the music and becuse of the downloads.. got back into the music and started buying $$$ GD releases.. no worry and now I have a knife at my throat..saying you have to buy..on I-tunes and download MP3s that sound awful on my sound system..the archive is a way to keep the marketing alive..I think I get it. do you think without this site the 1969 box set would have been such a success? we all want the remasterd music so peeps like me who have nice sound sysems can get the full effect..I think your tone is what upsets me most so instead of WAAAAA I give a BOOOOOO

 
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Poster: BigJilm Date: November 23, 2005 08:42:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Interesting how you could know my 'tone' from reading a typed response. You must have some kind of advanced degree in literature or something. ****settle down, it's called sarcasm*****
There is no 'knife to you throat'. Don't buy anything. Like I said, there are probably, literally hundreds of places & people to get these shows from. BT is going to be the new way most likely. All it means is...gasp...we are ALL going to have to work a little (more than before anyway) to get our GD now.
What it comes down to is:
No more Dead on the Archive sucks.
There are very few people who can change this.
All the ranting is almost making the fans look worse than those responsible for the removal of the music.


 
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Poster: rdr Date: November 23, 2005 07:53:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
[1] LMA is just doing what they have to do. No bad karma for them, and many thanks for the overall site.

[2] 1980-2005. 300+ shows. Every commercial release (assuming Santa brings the last half-dozen in a month). Books. T-shirts. Ties. I prefer soundboards; wouldn't have an issue at all if boards went commercial in some manner as long as a lossless repository for audience tapes was retained.

So...

[3] Not another Red Cent until or unless the conditions in [2] are met.

[4] Probability of [3]. Zero, in my estimation. Driver, my stop is apparently here. Time to get off the bus.

 
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Poster: markintoga32 Date: November 23, 2005 08:10:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
you know, with the amount of attention given to rat dog and phil and friends, you'd think they would like the free publicity. I for one an not going out and now paying for something that was once free. Secondly, the great thing about this site is that you can download what you like. you do not have to wait for an archivist to choose something for you. I have no problems when they pull the soundboards of shows that are already or about to be released.
Ratdog sucks, phil is decent but not the same and the "dead" have had their moments, but they all can't compare to the real thing. which is what we have here, a virtual play land where we could relive something from the past. I'm not sure what the plan from here is with the web site, I was recording a show, got set one done, ran out of discs, so I went out to purchase more, when I got back all the boards were all gone. But I hope the powers to be on this one realize they are only hurting the dead and their members 1; by disassociating the fans that are still interessted and 2; by limiting the ability of others to jump on the "train" or join the "circus"so to speak.

 
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Poster: desmond monster Date: November 23, 2005 09:22:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
yikes. I guess the music finally stopped.

 
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Poster: jeffsetz Date: November 23, 2005 11:24:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Send emails to everyone associated with the Grateful Dead. I just fired off one to GDM and told them of my displeasure with today's news. I also mentioned that I will no longer be making any purchases through them, including a list of things I was going to order as Christmas gifts from the current almanac. I also told them that I would stop purchasing the downloads they offer. I downloaded like crazy from the archive, while still buying everything the Dead officially released. Hit them in the pocket book is always a great way to send a message. In the meantime, I'll be burning LOTS of discs and sreading them freely.

 
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Poster: caspersvapors Date: November 23, 2005 12:14:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
November 23, 2005

To the Grateful Dead Organization,

Hello, my name is Ben Davis, I am a 20 year old college student at UC Santa Cruz. I would first like to say that I have been a Grateful Dead fan as long as I can remember, it’s the music I grew up with since my father (as well as other family members and close friends) has been a Deadhead since the 70’s and has seen hundreds of shows himself. That said I would like to iterate that I believe GDP’s decision in removing the Dead’s music from the Live Music Archive on archive.org is incredibly surprising and disappointing.
Being young, I missed out on thirty years of live Grateful Dead shows. The music archive allowed me to tune into the Dead on a daily basis and it brought the music to my attention in a whole new way. I came to love the Grateful Dead more. I downloaded and burned my own concerts as well as turned other people onto the Dead. And doing this did not stop me from purchasing Dick’s Picks, Dead DVD’s or any other Dead merchandise. I have even bought officially released Dead shows that I had already downloaded/listened to on the archive. In fact I have spent more money on Dead merchandise than I have on any other media commodities in the past year. Furthermore, I am not an exception to the rule. The majority of people on the archive listen to the music there and still purchase the official releases by GDP.
I really do not understand this decision and I do not think the people on GDP understand that magnitude of this decision. People are very upset and many long time fans are now boycotting the Dead. I find this measure extreme and somewhat irrational, but considering what the Grateful Dead have stood for and exemplified over the years I can understand their decision. I urge you to please allow the archive to circulate these shows again.

Sincerely,


Benjamin P. Davis



“I want it to be possible for my grandchildren to hear the music the Grateful Dead did. I think it'll be a hell of a lot more possible it it's on Archive.org than if it isn't."
–John Perry Barlow

“So, on one level it's amusing that people make so much stuff out of this and on another level, I believe it's their right to do that, because in a way the music belongs to them. When we're done with it, we don't care what happens to it”
-Jerry Garcia

 
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Poster: Musical Mountain Man Date: November 23, 2005 10:33:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I first want to say thank you for all of the folks who have helped to sustain the archive. The current issue is frustrating, but we cannot deny the amount of incredible music and information that is still available on this website because those musicians, individuals, etc. that continue to contribute believe in what it truly stands for, which is ultimately the spread of information and knowledge.

At the same time with this current issue I place blame on no one. Rather it is a symptom of the business and our society. The biggest disappointment for me, personally, is that the Grateful Dead have represented the anti of what this issue is truly about since the beginning. Or at least I like to think that is what they represented as a group of people and a band. Corporate interests, profit margin, etc. can sicken anyone, no matter who you are obviously.

I still will visit this site no matter what other individuals may have posted here, and I will still support the Grateful Dead and what I feel they have always stood for in the past. This is a blemish, but we shouldn't condemn a group of people who have given us great memories, friends, and most importantly music. If it is one bad seed in the bunch, so be it, but let us not judge the whole.


 
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Poster: map_bubba Date: November 23, 2005 01:45:25pm
Forum: etree Subject: no more Grateful Dead sound board recordings on the Internet Archive
Incredible thanks to those who made over 1170 items gathered into a golden nexus of pure sound, vast quantity, and palpable community reviews that really brought my interest back! The feeling I had was that at archive.org, these items were the foundation of a more centralized global community than I'd ever thought would take shape.

Hadn't grabbed any of my favorites since August, but today I felt a disturbance in the force and returned to archive.org only to find no more There there--like seeds and stems from the Really Big Bag that I remember.

'Tis as though a commercial tsunami blew through and swept away my personal portal to trippy hours from decades past. Not like it's all really gone away--just that I'm locked out now. Such is life in a land of properties and attorneys. As Americans perhaps it is our duty to realize that wistful nostalgia is precious. However personal it feels to us, at the end of the day the play-when-you-want-it part of those feelings are bult on some artist's property; Visa and Mastercard will henceforth be accepted for our convenience, with a nominal convenience fee added.

-=Blue about it in Kentfield

 
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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: November 23, 2005 03:09:17pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
i really feel like someone has died. i ahve that feeling- that really depressed desperate feeling. where you know its all gone. its over. but you dont want to believe it. you think about the day before- where it was all still there. youknow a few days ago i was saying- im going to go and download that great 72 show that id been streaming. now that opportunity is gone, and all of the great music that i had been looking forward to downloading and listening to and enjoying, is now gone. all that meant so much to me, and that changed my life, is now gone. and now i can no longer support the band that i love so much. only because of a greedy decision that was made. they are burying themselves and i really feel bad for them. they do not know the hole they are putting themselves in. i will live on with what i ahve of theirs and be happy with it. but i can't give anymore of my money or support.

Dark star crashes
pouring its light
into ashes

Reason tatters
the forces tear loose
from the axis


 
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Poster: sebbag Date: November 23, 2005 03:26:01pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
forgive them for they
know not what they've done

these are sad days. let us find a way to bring it back on the net.
I have no intention of spending dirty money on a successful group like the dead. the ideology of giving these shows for free and, at the same time, keeping good shows for label releases was pure and honest. That was what made them so unique.(except the music...of caurse)
on FESTIVAL EXPRESS(1970) , by the way, we have the same situation when they charge money for what deadheads understood as free events. the WRITING was on the Wall
any way good friends one thing I know if PIG PEN was alive
NON of this would have happen...
shalom

 
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Poster: OBIEtree Date: November 23, 2005 09:08:45pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thanks to Brewster, Diana, Matt, Torbjorn and all the others that spent massive time and efforts getting the ability to have this project made public for the time it was.
we should be thankful for what we were able to get and the new people that got turned on to the hobby during the time it was available.
you have done more for the hobby than anyone and helped share quality recordings.

Latvala would have been proud.

OBIE

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 24, 2005 12:15:58am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thanks Obie to you too and to all the people who worked together on the project! It's still stunning how y'all were able to bring it all together so well. :)

 
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Poster: moxley Date: November 24, 2005 12:45:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I have to say that I am very appreciative that the Archive exists and that I could download GD soundboards for as long as it lasted.

I do see a lot of people acting like babies on here. Yes, it totally sucks that the SBD are gone for now, but do you really know what happened and why? DO you know who asked for this and why? Do you know what the plan for the future is and if it is permanent? Probably not. I know I don’t. I have read the rumors as well, but who knows what is true.

One problem (in my opinion) is the suddenness and vagueness of the announcement. Removing something that means so much to so many people is obviously going to cause people to become upset - and when the information that is provided in it's place really doesn't clarify much people have a tendency to feel like they aren't being told the whole story - or like they are being given "corporate doublespeak" - where a decision that involves something of value or regarding revenue is being made behind the scenes and then is announced to the public with a euphemistic, vague announcement. Again, I am not saying that this is what happened - how would I know? I am saying that this is how it can come across to people, how they can feel.

I think people have also felt ( I know I have) that this archive, with the music and the political and education material and everything the archive is has just been a truly great thing. In this era of everything becoming corporatized dumbed down for the masses; in this era of creeping fascism (at least in the US/UK); in this era where our government lies and wants to control all information - either via laws or with the help of their corporate benefactors/patrons - the internet archive has seemed like a bastion of true freedom. So far it's been one of the things that I can point to and tell people "This is how it should be" - I think changes like this may make people afraid that the archive will change into just another website where instead of what’s best for the community (I.E. the world) and the material – decisions are made based more upon corporate/government will and money.

I love the archive, not just for the GD stuff, but for everything; for all it offers (and for free no less) and all it is. So in my opinion, (as far as the archive is concerned) more information would be nice = just straightforward ‘this is what happened, this is why – this is our plan for the future.’ I think that would calm people down…People need to realize that they aren’t necessarily owed something. People suggesting that others should ask for donations back are being shortsighted and childish (just my opinion as is all of this post)….The archive is important and is about a LOT more that the grateful dead.

And as far as the people who are bummed that the SBD are gone, I would offer the following insight: They were up for a long time. I am sure TONS of people downloaded a LOT of the shows. I know I got a whole bunch of them. With all of these shows in circulation it would be quite easy to set up a way to trade these shows – I can think if about 10 ways to do it online and there is always the good old fashioned mail trade.

Thanks for reading my post.

Moxley.

 
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Poster: GratefulPod Date: November 24, 2005 12:35:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Given the new "Offical Download Series," and what seems to be a new Dick's Pick every other week, we all knew this was coming. I think that we have all been blessed? spoiled? to have been able to do this for so long. Like most of you, I am I certainly pissed off this morining. (And definately a little sad). I'm sure its about the money.
For me , it was about the excitment of going through Getz and Dwork's great guides and pulling out a show to DL. I couldn't wait to burn the discs and listen to them. Sounds sentimental, does it? Just like most of these posts! We all need to get OVER IT, the age of Aquaris and Haight Asbury is over. When the anger subsides, I hope most of us remember THE MUSIC and what it means to us.
PS I hope that everybody @ GDP burns their turkey today!

 
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Poster: GratefulPod Date: November 24, 2005 12:53:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
How soon until DICK'S PICK 38: Cornell University, May 8, 1977?

 
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Poster: BornCrossEyed42 Date: November 24, 2005 01:46:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
i will definitely be burning the cornell show for everyone i can imagine.. im just glad that i got a hold of it before this happened..

 
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Poster: SavoyTruffle Date: November 24, 2005 02:01:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I have a ticket to an upcoming phil and friends show, guess what? not going anymore. and i was really looking foward to it as this would be my first dead related concert in a few years. now i just cant be around that crap. I have also been meaning to buy one of the new box sets with the remastered studio albums. I have bought SEVERAL DVD's over the past 2-3 years. I WOULD buy some of the downloads but at the price of $30 you guys can forget about that ever happening. SO, with all the dicks picks, buying studio albums for the second, third times (remastered sacd stuff), $75 concert tickets, merchandise (t-shirts, stickers, etc.), DVD's (winterland, the grateful dead movie, vault series, etc. etc), WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT FROM US!! DAMN!!! People spend more money on you than ANY other band. WTF!!!!

 
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Poster: sailinshoes Date: November 24, 2005 02:08:34am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I feel your pain, that's why I'm a Little Feat fan! I'll let you in on a little secret. Go to the Live Music Archive site (E-Tree) and click on the "Browse the bands", scroll down to Little Feat, click on 2004, and check out 7-12-2004. You will be AMAZED at what you hear!!!!

 
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Poster: CJFishFan Date: November 28, 2005 02:08:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
" i will definitely be burning the cornell show for everyone i can imagine.. im just glad that i got a hold of it before this happened.."

Likewise (on the second comment, that is). I downloaded this one on Monday the 21st -- just in time!!! As for burning it for everyone out there... maybe so. But, hey folks, at the risk of joining in this unbelievable rant - get a grip! Everyone just take a deep breath. A "step back" as it were :-)

I'm pretty sure that no one here has all the "inside info." Certainly it's ridiculous to be placing any blame at the feet of the LMA folks. As for GDP/GDM, who knows? Look, I'm as disappointed as everyone else, but let's not lose sight of the reason we all came here in the first place -- the music. There's still plenty out there that can be had for free if that's your preference, and much of what GDM is providing by way of DPs, etc. is simply superlative!! And by no means unreasonable in terms of pricing.

Let's at least wait for the dust to settle before attacking band members or others from the GD family. It's their perogative after all, and while we might disagree, let's all at least show some maturity. OK, rant over.

Thanks to all at the LMA (and the IA in general) for your fabulous work!!! I love this place! And my devotion to the Dead cannot be crushed so easily. Peace.

 
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Poster: Kemper Date: November 28, 2005 02:30:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I feel betrayed.... Read Requiem for the Dead by Cullen Sweeney.

http://cullensweeney.com/archives/2005/11/27/requiem-for-the-dead/

 
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Poster: robkell Date: November 24, 2005 01:29:52am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
well - the previous availibility of these grateful dead recordings on the internet archive was nothing less than spectacular - there is an obvious conflict between the commercial side (especially recent start-up of the download series at the gdstore) and the open format of readily available recordings hosted on the internet archive. i am not sure now the reason, in the first place, these shows were made availabile and why this reason had to be abandoned and the shows removed.

i was never a deadhead until the dick's picks series started and those releases really got me interested in the music and performances of the grateful dead - hey i'm 55 years old and for much of my life - always thought if you had workingman's dead, american beauty, live dead, skull and roses, plus live europe - what else was there to need - never got involved with the tape trading scene, etc. boy, was i ever wrong - and the dick's picks series releases no matter from what year - were always a pleasant surprise - so accidently coming across this site was great as i had purchased the taper's compendium volumes and used to read about the various shows - so this site for me was a godsend - i was in the leisurely process of downloading a nice cross section of the shows from here - i did not want everything - i did notice that many recordings i downloaded had flaws/minor nuisances such as poor quality audience patches, cut songs, problems with recording levels, etc. that would not make them suitable (or easily so) for commericial cd release or download - but were overall great - this is why i thought many of these shows albeit numerous had been made available on this site - (i.e. they had been marked off the list of commercially suitable recordings) - i hope some common ground is found as another poster wrote - that many of these recordings previously made available here can be again made available for a membership fee and nominal cost - to download with a good part of the proceeds going to help support the internet archive and the other part going to profit the grateful dead organization.

i was happy with (and still am) with the dick's picks series, releases from the vault, commericial downloads, and special sets - available for purchase - and have been a very steady customer at the gdstore - if their sales turned out to be seriously hurt (i.e. the download series) by people opting only to download from this site - then i am sorry that some tenable solution could not have been found before makng the decision to abruptly pull all the recordings. i hope some solution is found that allows a good-sized group of the shows to be restored and made available - maybe some for free/others for purchase under a membership scenario.

i would under no circumstances - purchase downloads of these shows from itunes or some other big company source (rhino or warner brothers). again, i would seriously consider participating in a program for a membership fee and nominal download cost - especially for shows that relate to, bookend, or are part of several nights stand that might go nicely with a dick's picks, vault release, or gdstore download.

if all is lost, i also am interested in sharing the recordings i was able to download (all lossless)and begin to participate in the trading community.

as someone said - you can never have enough grateful dead music - i think that's true.


 
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Poster: Billy DeLyons Date: November 24, 2005 08:53:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thanks to all of the people involved in the archiving/allowing downloads of Grateful Dead music all this time.

I am sad to see this awesome thing go away, and it I'd had known that this would happen (always thought it was too good to be true) I would have taken two months off of my job and downloaded/burned EVERYTHING.

Having said that - I have read many of the very negative posts on here and I hope that some people Grow Up. Guess we'll just have to go back to actually having to WORK a little bit to get the music we love.

I don't begrudge the Grateful Dead a retirement plan. Those guys worked hard for a long time. If I have (gasp) return to B&P trades it's not the end of the world.

It's been a Great Ride with the Internet Archive, and it's still the most amazing collection of free music in existence.

Viva le Archive! (And long live the Dead!)

Steve Urbauer
Lincoln, NE

 
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Poster: DeadHeadMike Date: November 24, 2005 03:21:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I think now that the shock is over,and all the crap has been slung around both at the Archive Folks and The Band, maybe we can remember why we as a group of folks listen to the Grateful Dead in the first place. It's not because Jerry hits every note with surgical percision or that Bobby remembers every lyric Barlowe wrote for him. Its the sheer unadulterated kindness that the scene exuded and still does today at The Dead shows that I have gone to. We as a community of Dead Heads should be showing that same kindness to these folks who gave us a dream come true. To be able at the drop of a hat to download snapshots in time in a matter of hours what 20 years ago took me and many others weeks if not months to make contacts with other tapers and hope they remember my address and then finally seeing that envelope in the mail box arrive to find 3 tapes that I knew wouldnt be close to the SBD quality shows I've been getting from these folks.
We just need to go back to the old school way of trading. Heaven forbid we make friends out of the deal. I have some shows and am willing to copy what ever I have for blanks and postage (just like the 80s). If anyone is interested in my list just email me. We need to adapt to this minor setback and even though the bands all packed and gone, make sure the music never stops!
One more offer of thanks, appreciation and gratitude to the wonderful folks at Archive.org who gave me the opportunity to expand my collection of shows.

Take Care

DeadHeadMike mlaws@wideopenwest.com


 
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Poster: RJ Hythloday Date: November 24, 2005 09:17:25pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I am grateful to have once had such a huge source as the lma for gd recordings, but now were bringing it back to the community where it belongs among the traders, tapers, and fans

 
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Poster: freak16 Date: November 25, 2005 12:00:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I would first and upmost like to thank archive.org and those that have been resposible for bringing us these great shows.
I have always understood (and have never had a problem with) the reason why board tapes have been removed befor the band had released them for sale either as dick's picks or any other release.
I would like to know the reason why all the uploaded audiance tapes have also been removed so we can nolonger down load them. For 30 years I have always enjoyed aud. tapes and always will. The GD had no problem allowing us to make tapes and trade them so why can't we contiue to do so on this great web site.
On a last note I have enjoyed many of the great sound boards from this site and other sites but it has never stoped me from buying the Dead's releses.I think what they have done is wrong and I hope they will see the errors in this decision and correct it.
Thanks Freak.

 
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Poster: amaher Date: November 25, 2005 12:48:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Stunned and saddened. I guess I am "grateful" for the music I was able to access. The great thing about the Archive for me was how easy it was. I have tried other places and just gotten really frustrated. Is there anything else out there like this? I am a far cry from my days when I had lots of time on my hands--it seems like yesterday being on tour in 1991--now more than full-time job, wife, 2 kids--I guess I am really torn because it was so great to have and really got me back to listening to the music again and now it is gone. I kind of feel set up and then cut down, and I question how IA was "asked" to pull down the boards. A great big thanks to everyone who made their music available to people like me and to those who helped facilitate it. It is truly a wonderful thing. We shall see what the future brings.

 
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Poster: Tamlin Date: November 25, 2005 01:25:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
From the point of the view of the extended organization they made a living but nobody got rich and this will make no difference to them.

From the point of view of a former aquaintence of Fuzzyman I would say if his ghost should appear he'd simply say "Nobody can stop you Just get up and find another way to do it - God help rock and roll if rock and roll needs help"

The music doesn't stop until you do

The ALF

 
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Poster: elow Date: November 25, 2005 01:12:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I echo the words of thanks and appreciation to the folks, including GD, who made the archive available to date. What a pleasure it has been.

I respect GD's right to capitalize on its intellectual property in any manner that it chooses. In my opinion, GD has made an ill-advised business decision to pull the soundboards from the archive, but this is its choice. Similarly, it is my choice as a consumer to refrain from purchasing any further products, tickets, etc. from GD.

In the past, I have happily purchased tickets to over 200 GD concerts and many side project gigs, all the albums, a number of CD's and Dick's Picks releases and several videos. The archive has kept my interest in the band alive. By taking it away with no explanation about how the music will be made available in the future on reasonable terms, it seems like GD no longer cares about its customers and is acting in a high-handed manner. I also worry that, in the future, us rabid consumers of GD products will be squeezed a little too tightly. Cable companies made similar mistakes in the past by beginning to charge for channels that had traditionally been part of the package without adequate communication to customers. These sorts of tactics alienate and insult loyal customers. When GD decided to change the way that it makes the music available, it should have had the courtesy (and good sense) to explain its decision and to outline its strategy for going forward. Perhaps if it had done so, we all would not be so upset. I will enjoy the memories, but my financial contributions to GD are for now over.

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: luvlight72 Date: November 25, 2005 02:30:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Sad Sad day,
I somehow think Jerry would strongly disapprove of how Grateful Dead merchandising have become a money greedy corporation. Thank you to Archive for providing this wonderful opportunity until this point. I knew it was too good to come true that the vast collection of Grateful dead shows would be available like this. Thank god I got the 100 shows when I did. Man this is a tragic day for fans of the band :(

Ooh and I too have given the band my last pennies as well. I will not support grateful dead merchandising anymore!!!!! I encourage you to follow suit!

This post was modified by luvlight72 on 2005-11-25 10:17:24

This post was modified by luvlight72 on 2005-11-25 10:30:07

 
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Poster: gdman Date: November 25, 2005 02:38:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I always appreciated the Dead's tolerance and graciousness over the past 10 years as the internet became the norm for the dispersal of their shows, so I am shocked by this sudden knee-jerk.
While I can understand pulling the SBD's, I can't fathom why they chose to take away the ability to download Auds.I also hope the band/organization realizes the incredible amount of work their fans put in just to prep and upload the huge number of shows that were available. To take it all away without an explanation is an insult to those folks, as well as a bad business decision. Do the Dead really think I'm going to pay $15.99 for a download? I hope not. Not only that, but as a fan of 2nd sets I don't necessarily want to pay for a whole show when I really only want half of it.
Hopefully we Deadheads will see the band offer some kind of viable alternative, but unless it's something comparable to the archive (albeit with a nominal charge), we will all be back to posting our trade lists and waiting for the mail to come.

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: jason funkalope Date: November 26, 2005 01:39:26pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
maybe i'm a newbie but why only 2nd sets? first i've heard of a preference like that...in 15 years or so since i "found out" about the dead.

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: gdman Date: November 28, 2005 01:21:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
2nd sets typically are more about jamming and exploration.

 
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Poster: BoldCaptain Date: November 25, 2005 04:50:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I searched both spititual and corporal for an answer and this is the best i could come up with...

Attachment: Nothing-LastsWebsm.jpg

 
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Poster: gratefuled Date: November 25, 2005 08:24:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I've already sent Phil an email and will essentially repeat it here. The biggest issue I see is that the music was already given away. Now, someone is taking it back. That lacks class in my opinion and the legacy of the Grateful Dead can only suffer for it. I first said that three days ago and judging by the posts I have read since then, that is certainly happening. Jerry Garcia's legacy is secure but the rest of the band members are looking very bad. I'll say it again: once you give something away, its not yours any more. I would guess THAT is why so many are so pissed.
A second point is that I believe the GDM downloads are too expensive. I've burned many shows and discovered at a later time that my discs were flawed. Homemade discs cannot compete technically with professionally burned ones. Twenty dollars for a set of files is excessive. If the Dead organization wants to increase revenue they should cut the prices. No more than $10 per show. Remember what you used to get in royalties from the record companies? A lot less than that, I would guess. Cutting the supply of SBD's on Archive.org is not going to boost your sales, only forfeit your unique place in music history.

 
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Poster: Brookeok Date: November 25, 2005 06:16:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Might as well go to GDlive.com for shns, until they pull the plug on that too.

I think this is an unfortunate turn of events.

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: DeadJR Date: November 25, 2005 06:36:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I was never willing to be called a Dead Head.
I'm a hugh fan
I don't idolize nobody
I don't hang on nobodys word
I don't cream for pop stars, sport stars or celebs of any kind
The Dead are a good time good vibe happy people positive thoughts grassroots folk movement
The band and Jerry came as close as could be to being my focus group
The Archives my only beloved orginization
This is so disappointing and bubble bursting
I never made hugh collections ( I have under 100 mp3 discs)
I never anticipated this happening
I'm experiencing abandonment issues
I'm still naive enough to believe The Archives are just "Following Orders"
Why then did you not give us some warning so at least we could have done some panic downloading of 'must have' concerts
I never bothered, believing the good people at the archive would always be there, so why clutter my space with what will indefinitly be readily available downloads?
Can't we get a grace period to ease the withdrawel pains.
With all the millions the Dead made off their vibe, what happened? Was the 42 anniversary of JFKs assasination the time go capitalist on us?
Give us till New Years To get well.
It's only fair to give us a warning as to the coming of this big change.
I never thought 'mean' would be a term to describe 'The Archives'.
Meanwhile fellow Dead music enthusiasts...
enjoy www.gdlive.com before they remove that.
If anyone knows of other sources of quality Dead recordings
that don't entail to much computer knowledge...I'm a click and download and enjoy type a guy,
Please respond to this post and I'll be Emailed your good info.

Peace

 
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Poster: claus Date: November 25, 2005 06:15:29pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Hi all of you everwhere,

i'm only an old german guy whose english is not as good as it might be, but i hope hat everyone will understand what i'm trying to say.

in europe we didn't have had much possibilities to see the GRATEFUL DEAD live in concert. me, i saw them in 1981 three times, in Essen, in Munich and in Paris. these events changed my whole life! from this time on i've known that there is a force in the world which try to change it to a better way. i don't understand all the textes they've sung but i understood the message of love.
with the internet i learnt more about the GRATEFUL DEAD. i learnt to know that it is still a strong cummunity. and the archive.....this was really the difference to any other group or musician worldwide. the idea of collecting all the shows of this unique band was great. many , many thanks to the archivists for this. now the archive is gone and i'm very very sade. what is now the difference to other bands. commercial is the only way they live. JERRY will turn out of his grave if he could. shame over all who stopped the archive.
i, for myself, i have about 500 GD-shows at home. i don't need the archive anymore. also i know other ways to get what i want. but i think a geat idea is dying.i remember JERRY GARCIA who said one day that the music when they have played it's no more their own. it's for everyone. free. for everyone!

i for myself, I WILL NEVER BUY ANY RECORD OF GRATEFUL DEAD MUSIC AGAIN. Dick Pick's are lost forever. if the idea of this music is dying noone need dick pig anymore! and i, i will put all my efforts in remastering the shows i've at home. and believe folks i know how to remaster (sometimes i think my products are better than jay ashleys....) i will give copies of them to all the people i know. just for nothing or only for the promise to give it to 10 people else. if there are some people who think that they can earn some money with a music which was not made to make some money they will not win this war. with winston churchill i can say:


AND WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER


Come on guys, do it like me. 10 people 10 shows for 10 other guys are .......... in this way we will make millions and millions of copies!!!!!!!
but NEVER buy or sell something which is related to the GRATEFUL DEAD - the greatest rock'n roll band that ever was.

claus

a lost german dead-head

p.s. if it was really phil's idea why can we still download the phish-shows from the archive??????????

nevertheless whose idea it was to pull off the shows from the archive [moderated]This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-25 17:56:18 .... oh we are censored.
[moderated] while big tears
are running down my ... oh i don't know the word. excuse me.

since the allies liberated us from the nazis in germany we are used to say what we think! so why do you censor me. it's my opinion. is it no more possible to tell his own opinion in the state of george w. bush? than we can even get the regime of the taliban ....


This post was modified by claus on 2005-11-25 18:13:26

[Please do not use foul language; that is what has been removed. Please do not add it back in again. Thanks. -mod.]

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-25 19:05:14

okay. but only because i've great respect of the work of all people working at the archive, and not because he isn't!



This post was modified by claus on 2005-11-26 02:15:29

 
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Poster: DaveB521 Date: November 25, 2005 10:00:29pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
It is understandable why the Dead would want to pull some shows off this site. I don't blame them as they are a company and make money selling the Dicks picks. But one thing that is un-Grateful Dead like is this....don't allow us to have the music one day and then the next take it away. As for the many shows still on the site...why are they only available to stream? Bob, if you see this post let me tell you one thing...many of us have spent a small fortune supporting your tours over the years. If in fact you are responsible for being the modern day indian giver I will never patronize one of your venues again and will never buy any of your music again. I will however support Phil Lesh. You have really hurt your image with this issue. I suggest you allow some of the shows still on the Archive to be downloadable.

p.s. I saw your most recent show in Syracuse NY and it will be my LAST!!

 
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Poster: tigerbolt Date: November 25, 2005 11:08:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
do you curse in public libraries in germany?

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 25, 2005 11:16:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Uh, machts nichts at this point- move on like you said, man! ;)

 
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Poster: doktorv Date: November 25, 2005 09:19:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Has anyone considered the possible involvement of www.musictoday.com? HQ in Charlottesville, VA; owned by the manager of the Dave Matthews Band; handles the Dead's merchandising (along with what seems like thousands of other bands).

 
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Poster: TI41009 Date: November 26, 2005 12:00:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
It's pretty clear now that what looked like it might have been some kind of counterculture is, in reality, just the plain old chaos of undifferentiated weirdness.

- Jerry Garcia

 
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Poster: hoosker Date: November 26, 2005 12:08:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
The top header on the Dead.net site is interesting...
**BRING THE MUSIC BACK**
part of an advertisement for the drum head auction. It's so wierd it's funny. But not exactly good wierd. Seems like the community is the butt of some sick little joke? Arghhh....

 
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Poster: TI41009 Date: November 26, 2005 01:50:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
If they need money, there's always Plan B

A job a diary queen


 
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Poster: vladsmythe Date: November 26, 2005 01:27:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
How about a refund for the dumb Landover'90 cd that was to fund the Terrapin Station debacle? That was a real burn.

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 26, 2005 01:35:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
The Internet Archive has no connection to Terrapin Station or any GD CD sales.

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: QtheE Date: November 26, 2005 02:27:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Out of appreciation to the Grateful Dead family for allowing these shows to be shared and traded I always did my part to voluntarilly buy GD merchandise

My policy to support the Band in this way ended with what I can only assume was the GD Corporation's decision to pull their recordings.

I'd be willing to bet someone thought they could make a lot of money by doing this - I predict that theory will backfire.

 
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Poster: QtheE Date: November 26, 2005 03:00:58am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
http://www.petitiononline.com/gdm/petition.html

...in case anyone is interested in voicing their displeasure

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: sfgmd Date: November 26, 2005 02:56:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
All good things come to an end (ie:Napster). I have downloaded many shows and have purchased many more through the years. In some shows certain songs are absolutely tremendous and others mediocre. You can not find that when purchasing Dick's Picks. This change is painful and I would suspect Jerry would role over in his grave. If this is policy from Grateful Dead merchandising, is it because sales of Dicks' Picks has gone down? These downloads were not perfect but they were fun. If this was policy from GDM then no one who used this site should purchase another show. We download because we love to listen. It was special and different, not to be resold by us to others. I hope those who are responsible will read what others have written and rethink this policy change. We all thought that the Dead and their organization were different than mainstream recording publishers. What's next, charging Dark Star Orchestra for playing Dead music? We can only hope that this will change and that there is hope for society in general.

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: HighNRGOne Date: November 26, 2005 01:20:15pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
"What's next, charging Dark Star Orchestra for playing Dead music?"

OMG, don't give anyone any ideas....I would hate to see war in the streets.......

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: Diggity Dank Date: November 26, 2005 04:45:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Have any Intellectual Property attorneys who love the GD (or people who love the GD with IP attorney friends)looked into whether the GDs music can still be controlled/protected by the GD (thru copyright) as it was once freely available in the public domain. I wonder if they are asserting rights they don't have. Obviously, the archive doesn't want to ruffle the GDs feathers (the archive has enought to deal with, and I'm sure wouldn't want to spend any money on lawyers here), but I wonder if another party who wanted to set up the old sbds for distribution couldn't legally do it. The dead probably wouldn't like it, but I'm curious: 1) whether enforceable copyrights exist for all the live shows that were pulled down; 2)enough time may have passed that many of the sbds are not protected by copyright; 3) can the gd's own policy (allowing for the free distribution of music without any specific requirements except for keeping it non-commercial) be rescinded without the GD acting to reestablish the copyrights, and did they do anything legally to protect this music? Or are the GD merely barking loud and hoping we all back down. I do not advocate acting in any way that the GD doesn't like, but I am geniunely curious whether the GD have the law on their side...If they don't it might be a good angle to get them to at least re-OK the sbds that were previously available, thus preserving the archive as it was before the Thanksgiving announcement. Even if the archive doesn't grow, that result would be more than sufficient for me!

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 26, 2005 05:20:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=48659

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: hipschoolpreppy Date: November 26, 2005 11:45:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
yo go to NUGS.net for a little extra dead with AMAZING quality, but stay here for all that other grate shiznuis

 
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Poster: er1c Date: November 26, 2005 12:29:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
wonder how barlow, lyricist, who now works with the EFF feels about this? this junk carries the mark of the wealthy cocoa cola heiress, deborah koontz (old girlfriend of jerry's who he got back with - and his bad habits - shortly prior to hes passing) there, I said it, let her step up and tell us it ain't her. bet she won't. not hard to guess which band member too. businessman he is. bad karma will befall them, their attempt to control sharing of music in the free spirited way that built the band's following will come to no good. I say rip all yoour dick's picks and vault cds and post 'em wherever you can. give it away, it's what jerry wanted!

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 29, 2005 04:49:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
wonder how barlow, lyricist, who now works with the EFF feels about this?

This just in:
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/29/barlow_on_death_of_g.html

"This is worse than the RIAA suing their customers." Now that's on-message for EFF! ;)

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-29 12:49:00

 
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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: November 29, 2005 05:09:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
a multitude of cheers for Mr. Barlow!!!! :)

 
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Poster: psyched Date: November 29, 2005 05:07:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
Cheers indeed!

It's notable that he singled out the Drummers as the cause. Makes the Phil-bashing seem a little premature. Even so, we should probably wait until there's an official statement to know where to direct our outrage.

Also interesting to compare Barlow's remarks to Gans's. Barlow who actually had a CREATIVE hand in the GD, and Gans who by his own admission makes his living FROM the FREE TRADE OF RECORDINGS; If not for the old trading policy, which most of us are now lamenting the loss of--including Barlow--Gans would never have had his job in the first place.

 
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Poster: jbenash7 Date: November 29, 2005 06:36:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
It seems to me that the reason Gans is not opposed to the removal of the soundboards is that their free and easy distribution to all was actually to his disadvantage. With everyone and their mother having free access to nearly every recording, the Dead Hour became less valued as a venue for fans to hear recordings that might formerly have been very rare.

 
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Poster: psyched Date: November 29, 2005 06:52:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
Good point, jbenash7.

This post was modified by psyched on 2005-11-29 14:52:25

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: markpj Date: November 29, 2005 06:56:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
why don't they ban cover bands while there at it ??

 
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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: November 29, 2005 07:07:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
Hey, but look on the bright side. At least we can now have "Saint of Circumstance" as a ring tone.

 
Reply [edit]
 
Poster: dwill1188 Date: November 29, 2005 05:33:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
wow im impressed with Mr. Barlow's comments....hopefully soon GDM will realize what a mistake they've made and turn everything around in the other direction. but then again, i dont know what the future looks like....but i think the protest is a good idea

 
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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: November 29, 2005 05:43:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
I was hoping Barlow would sound in on this sooner or later. One had to expect this would be his position after the interview in Relix a while ago where he bragged about the Dead inventing "viral advertizing," or somesuch, in reference to the free taping policy.

I wonder if "drummers" here is to be read metaphorically or literally.

 
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Poster: ajmasko Date: November 29, 2005 06:28:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
if what he says is true, this whole situation is the latest in very long string of bad business decisions by the dead over the years. sad.

 
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Poster: DaveB521 Date: November 29, 2005 06:30:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
The Dead still makes most of thier cash by touring. I doubt they have ever seen a low turnout and if this starts to happen it may make them wake up. I myself will boycott any shows until they at least put the audience taped shows back on. Anyhow, String Cheese is the new deal in my book.

 
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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: November 29, 2005 08:02:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Barlow's remarks
In the 9/26/05 Rolling Stone....
Hart addressed the crowd and as he did ten years earlier at Garcia's memorial, by posing a combination challenge and request. "Take this feeling we all share home," he said, "and do something with it!"

Then based on Diana's posting...
John Perry Barlow, EFF co-founder and former Grateful Dead lyricist, tells Boing Boing:
You have no idea how sad I am about this. I fought it hammer and tong, but the drummers had inoperable bricks in their head about it.

So what should we do with this feeling Mick? Share it? Or charge for it?

Again...I'm into sharing. Who's in? Email me to share. We've got about five in the mix already. I figure another ten and well have ourselves a party of SBDS. Its exponential folks.

disguisedasasquirrel@gmail.com

 
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Poster: DaveJuggBass Date: November 26, 2005 11:58:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
To all fellow Deadheads,
Until the band releases an official statement, please refrain from jumping to conclusions about the loss of the band's concerts on the Archive.
If it is strictly a for profit move by the GDM people, then yeah we have a valid reason to feel betrayed by the band we loved that said in essence "once we're done with the show then you can have it."
My opinion is that they (Grateful Dead Inc.) should let us enjoy what we had going. We're all getting older, and these personal recording collections are the best way to keep this music alive and cherished for years to come not only for us fans but for GDM Inc.
Let GDM Inc. keep doing what their doing, I enjoy the Dick's Picks recording quality and don't mind paying for a good product or some other item in the "official Dead store". God bless them and let them continue that. But please don't become hypocritical and change your bootleg policy after all these years. Say it ain't so!
So I'm waiting for an official statement on why now after all these years and all the support the fans have given to the band to GET THEM TO WHERE THEY ARE TODAY, did this 180 degree turn happen.
If the organization needs the money that bad please say so. Is it because they're looking toward semi-retirement, touring less, and need all available revenue sources under their control for a comfy retirement plan for all surviving band members and their staff incuding families? Hey be honest, from what I've come to understand this organization was never really good at managing their money.....maybe they really do need the $$$$$$$
Don't rush to judgement until the Dead give an official reason for this mess. If they need the money that bad let them just say so. But don't forget the fans who got you this far.
I love this band and all the tremendous music they produced and continue to produce. May they have many more years of doing so.
God bless us all.

 
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Poster: clamdigger Date: November 26, 2005 02:27:22pm
Forum: etree Subject: Itunes????
I just took a look at the GDM site and they have started a download only service (which is fine) but it appears that it is clearly linked to Itunes as well as RealPlayer. Itunes will soon become the biggest player in the music business and this is a big move my them to approach the Dead.

There will soon be a bit-torrent site that will mirror this service but it will be harder to establish the quality control that existed with archive.

Let GDM know you want nothing to do with Itunes!

If you are on this site you are capable of converting files to your ipod w/o assistance anyway.

my 2 cents.


 
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Poster: Cosmic_C Date: November 26, 2005 02:09:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive

I'm just very grateful :) to IA to let me get a nice 1st gen version of hissy tapes I'd listened to for years. I got 15 shows, and since IA helped get the pandora out of the box, everything is out there, just not as easy to find. IA was an easy target. Millions of potential show hosters, not so easy.


My general m.o. in regards to about *any* music is to find the mp3 ahem anywhere, and if I like it, seek out the lossless version (aka CD) and buy it. Since the IA GD 'preview' is no longer available for my convenient free download, oh well. Rarely will I buy a album sound unheard.

Just makes it a bit more difficult to find, but the irony is that IA users that saved the files will likely network it all back together in lists, outside of the control of the parent company. Like in the older days, except now there's a bunch of primo soundboards circlulating wild..

Good going, fellas. Should have given everybody a week or said 'as of Jan 1st'.. now you've got a bunch of conflicted feeling heads out there, some who will go 'oh well, gotta buy it now', others continue their free-(down)loading ways.

They could have done this so much more graceful than this.






 
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Poster: Tender Furry Date: November 26, 2005 02:37:27pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I'd been waiting for the other shoe to fall for a while.

In theory, the Internet Archive is supposed to be a repository for all things....this place (IA) gradually turned into a Grateful Dead audio ghetto.

C'mon all you angry, childish Dead fans...it's almost 2006...it's time to wash the old musty tie-dyed shirts that you bought at the mall and get with the proverbial program. Anyone who's boo-hooing over a few mp3s and oggs needs to re-organize their mental space and pronto! How about taking some of your anger at IA and going outside and planting some flowers or veggies?

The Internet Archive owes none of us anything...if we were paying a monthly fee for these "Dead-downloads" then it would be reasonable to complain if the material were yanked. The current generation of Dead-heads seem to want everything...I know because I've read the posts here.

Those who've donated funds to IA on behalf of their Grateful Dead lust will have to act according to their hearts and minds...if people here want to boycott the Dead
in all it's forms, then that's their right...go for it

As an old, hardcore dirty hippie (from wy back) it saddens me to see such ridiculous greed oozing from a lot of the posts here in this area. If greed and unbridled lust (after recordings!) are now characteristics of the modern Dead-head, then as a card-carrying Dead-head I now officially am burning my membership card

Thanks to the IA for hosting all the Dead recordings these past few years - I downloaded more that there are seconds in an average week...especially glad to have gotten shows from 65-70

party on -
Tender Furry

 
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Poster: Lazlo Toth Date: November 26, 2005 06:20:25pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Darn. Kind of depressing....I'm an intellectual property lawyer and have always understood they could yank anything they made available...but just because you CAN yank something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

It's their music and it belongs to them to use it as they see fit. So I have trouble complaining. But it was ALWAYS magical to see the GD folks shun the money in a world where the MPAA sues everyone in sight, Sony gets sued because it puts DRM materials on hard drives without telling people. etc. My 10-year-old had just graduated from some of the stuff that gets marketed to him and I'd been using the Dead as an example of people who approached intellectual property completely differently and still did well. I guess that the temptation to do what's been done here is another lesson that I'll have to teach him now that I've learned it too.

I don't begrudge people making a living, or even lots of money, and if that's what the Dead wants to do it's their right. But as they do this, they've destroyed something magical and magic isn't easy to find. So I suspect that as I go along listening to the downloads I already have, my listening will be tinged with a sadness that the magic was destroyed - albeit legally - and over time my enjoyment of the music will probably be tainted as well. So I'll end up finding other bands that I've never heard of and will discover things I didn't know about from those bands.

As one comment said earlier, now GD is "just another corporate logo." Oh well.

I cannot begin to thank this site for making the music available and I will return again and again and again for music by new artists that I would never otherwise encounter.

 
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Poster: johnny99 Date: November 26, 2005 10:50:23pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
The Dead had been turning into "just another corporate logo" for a long time now. I mean Jerry had his own line of neckties for god's sake (just like Rush Limbaugh). The whole deadhead/hippy movement had also been branded and co-opted for years as well. They slap the logo on everything now anyway from golf tees to whatever else you can think of. It sucks that they are having financial problems but I don't know maybe it's time to move on, let's face it, it is probably only a matter of time before some Dead song turns up in a commercial. Phil, Bobby et. al. have been veering close to becoming nostalgia acts for quite awhile now (sort of like a cooler version of what the Beach Boys became). Both Ratdog and Phil and Friends are essentially Dead cover bands and even the actual band themselves began to resemble a cover band in their waning years. They wrote and performed some great music but they weren't exactly creative juggernaughts, they would occasionally play a new (mediocre) tune and then go back to playing the same old stuff that everyone paid to hear and that they had been playing for the last two decades. In the twilight of their career everyone wet themselves because ooooooh they played "Unbroken Chain", that song is almost 25 years old if not older! There are other bands out there, some are even, (gulp!) more exciting than the Dead. They were a great band, but that's what they were, a band. IMHO people need to quit treating them as sacred objects of veneration and stop looking at this whole thing as some broken covenant between God (The Dead) and his children (Deadheads). We're all suckers on some level or another anyway as we have been paying money for the same songs over and over and I suspect alot of other people feel this way which is why they would rather download for free than pay for a CD. I had alot of Dicks Picks myself and stopped buying them when I noticed basically the same songs on most of them and decided that I would rather spend money on something new instead of paying good money for the same material played in a different year or venue. These were great songs but hell, how many versions of Jack Straw does one really need to hear or posses in one's life time? This greed on the band's part that certain individuals write about cuts both ways. There are people on these boards that have downloaded 100's of shows more than they could possibly listen to. Seeking more than you can use or need, basically "coveting" if you will, is essentially greed in itself. Think about it. Look around on this site (which is still great) and others and you may discover music that was made in this decade that is just as good if not better. PS: before I get accused of this, I do GET the Dead.

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 05:39:05

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 05:55:12

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 06:01:55

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 06:19:06

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 06:21:55

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 06:28:33

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 06:50:23

 
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Poster: Flakey Foont Date: November 26, 2005 10:49:58pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Good post, lot's of good points. I really don't understand the obsession with downloading thousands of shows, I downloaded about 30 from here (normally the highest rated show from each year), and combined with what I already had, I have several hundred hours of GD music. The aggression of the allegedly deprived fair weather Deadheads is an example of what went south with the crowds towards the end of the trip. The last time I saw them was in 94; let me tell you, it was a long way from Winterland, I didn't think the band had changed too much, but the crowd was really strange compared to the old days. I’ll go out on a limb here and suggest that the people sniveling about the GD are not Winterland ultraviolet survivors.

 
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Poster: johnny99 Date: November 26, 2005 11:07:42pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Thanks for replying. I was living in Noblesville during the whole Deer Creek/gate crashing mess and there seemed to be an underlying sentiment that the people who crashed that fence were somehow entitled to because of there "devotion" to the band and if you listen to the tape you can hear the gate crashers being cheered on by the "fans" at the show. By that same sentiment, people seem to believe that since they are so devoted to the band that they are entitled to grab as much free music as they want.

 
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Poster: Flakey Foont Date: November 26, 2005 11:16:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I really wonder where the outrage was when Jerry kept getting forced out on the road when he was obviously sick. Although GD inc. are capitalists, the beast was fed by the crowd.

 
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Poster: johnny99 Date: November 26, 2005 11:48:11pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I always wondered about that myself. Ultimatly what turned me off to the whole scene (not the music mind you, I still think it's great) Was this competition that I found was sort of inherent in alot of circles. Everyone was always trying to outdo each other in terms of shows seen and collected. This even exenteded to the clothes they wore and the vehicles they drove (just HAVE to have that VW bus!). Also it seems like the scene around the parking lot had sort of degenerated as well. In Noblesville there was usually a big bruha when the Dead came because of all the business Tourheads and what not brought to the local businesses. From the point of view of the actual parking lot scene it began to look more and more like an influx of people who either didn't care about the band and liked the partying or people who liked the band withen the context of said partying. My point is that I began to see the whole scene as less and less a celebration of music and empathy with the love of the band as the glue that brought all these people together and more like a travelling carnival or mardi gras where the music was sort of in the backgound and the partying and the "lifestyle" was at the forefront. So while I love and continue to love the Dead's music I'm kind of leery of the "scene".

This post was modified by johnny99 on 2005-11-27 07:48:11

 
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Poster: Flakey Foont Date: November 27, 2005 02:30:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
True, I have said this many times before, that the people changed not the band, and also the weird competition thing about how many times someone saw them in concert. Possibly the same weirdness is at play here, with people who have downloaded 800 shows and are now pissed off because they can't download more, I'm not sure what you do with that many shows even if you listen to them constantly, possibly the goal was to download every show for some reason like to tell everyone what a great DH you were because you went to a thousand shows and you had two thousand downloaded. the whole thing reeks of negative energy perpetuated by some bizarre adolescent one-up-man ship idea. the fact of the matter is, that if you like the Dead: Shut up and listen to them, if you don't like them or think the have turned into capitalistic swine, just shut up.

This post was modified by Flakey Foont on 2005-11-27 10:30:09

 
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Poster: johnny99 Date: November 27, 2005 02:29:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I think what alot of this comes down to is a matter of delayed gratification. In the "send blanks and postage" days you would have to wait days sometimes weeks, and you had to put time and effort into the whole endeavor (at least I did). I think what people are really pissed about is that you can no longer just tap a key and in a matter of minutes have a new show. Not to mention that we were getting this stuff free of charge for awhile now and were spoiled by it.

 
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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: November 27, 2005 04:42:23am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I agree with both of the heads in this thread. I'm still interested in getting unique, quality recordings of the Dead. I'm not interested in pissing and moaning anymore.

If you're off the bus, get off. Its comes back around. You can get on again when you've burned of all of your negativity.

 
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Poster: Steve Taton Date: November 26, 2005 11:45:30pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
This whole thing reminds me of Watkins Glen in '73. Before there were really great rigs at shows, someone had a mic on a pole with a reel to reel. The Dead's people actually came out and cut his cable so he couldn't tape. I used to have a copy of this show from this taper where you can hear them yelling at the taper to stop.

Later, they changed their policy and became the darlings of the taper crowd. I always thought that is part of what made them so wildly popular for so long. AFAIC, the tapers are who kept the vibe going. Basically, tapers were producing and distributing promo materials for the Dead. And it didn't cost them a cent.

Now, it would appear to me that whoever was responsible for the old policy in the first place has been given a position of eleveated importance, or at least his opinion counts more now. And that is really, really sad.

I know that we aren't really entitled to anything, but it would be nice to see the loyalty that tapers and Deadheads have shown for so long, while putting millions of dollars in their coffers, be acknowleged and given back. Until recently, that loyalty did mean something. Now, apparently, it doesn't.

I see this as the end of an era. Some will say the era ended when Jerry died, some will even say it ended in '70, and all points in between, but I see it as now.

GDP may see this move as sound business, but they are violating an old business tenet: don't give anyone anything that you aren't prepared to give everyone forever. When you take away something that you have been giving for a long time, you are going to piss people off. That, for better or worse, is human nature. Now, they have pissed off many of their greatest fans.

I would guess that a few of you are like me. You already have most of the shows you really want, whether it is 100 hours or 2,000 hours. You have probably been trading for awhile, and you buy Dick's Picks and Vault releases out of loyalty and because of the artwork, packaging, and the knowlege that the sound will be just a little bit better than the copies that are out there. You know that the price is a little steep compared to what you can get trading, but you also know that the info is cut into the discs and will last until you break or mar the disc. Also, they do tend to find shows that aren't in the food chain yet.

Now, the loyalty factor is gone. The band that had you in the palm of their hands forever because they were so user-friendly is now just another band competing for your hard-earned money. Now, the colors on the covers look just a little faded. The yes/no meter on purchases suddenly doesn't go into the yes mode when deciding whether or not to pull the credit card out. The unpteenth version of whatever song you really wanted to hear another version of suddenly doesn't seem worth $8 a disc anymore.

You can go to the downloads section of the store, but, like Dick's Picks, some shows are incomplete or have filler "bonus" material on them, thus creating an extra disc to pay for, and the price for the .flac versions isn't much less than what you are paying for the DP and Vault shows.

As for the Dead's "financial problems," you may find it hard to believe that the organization that you have been faithfully pumping money into for so long could have financial problems so bad that they would find it necessary to pull the plug on soundboards. You wonder where all those millions of dollars have gone, and why they need more. You may wonder why they are now turning their backs on the people and the policies that made them so rich in the first place. And you may just put that wallet back into your pocket without pulling the credit card out. And that is sad.

If GDP really needs the money that bad, why don't they just approach Live Music Archive with a novel idea. Why don't they keep the soundboards up and charge a nominal fee ($2 a disc plus a little for LMA would be fair for everyone) to download them. That way, everybody would win. We would get downloads without having to pay record store prices, GDP would get a lot more money than they will at the prices they want to charge without having to lift a finger, and LMA gets some money for being the GD's agent.

I think a situation where everybody wins is in the spirit of what the Dead used to be about. I guess the obvious question is: is win-win what the Dead are still about, or are they just another competitor for your hard-earned money?

 
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Poster: Diggity Dank Date: November 27, 2005 02:58:05am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
What of waiver? Any argument that the Dead have waived any enforceable copyright on the material as a result of having it freely available in the public domain? My understanding of IP law was that the copyright holder must take steps to protect its copyright; here, there was free access to the material, available to all, with the express approval of the GD? I'm not saying that the gd have no moral right to ask archive to remove the material. I am questioning whether they have lost their legal right to protect their recordings as a result of their own actions.

 
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Poster: CatfishJohn Date: November 26, 2005 06:16:27pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I have been a fan since 1978, the whole community is bothered by this. The spirit of love and the age of social revolution was bound to be victomized in some ways by money mongering. But by Phil???? Doesn't Phil have enough money yet? Or is it control? Why would he care? I will now boycott any show that Phil is in.
Jerry if you can, please help us now!

 
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Poster: Gratefulmjh Date: November 26, 2005 09:54:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I am thankful that most of the Grateful Dead's concerts have been available here for sometime. That time has now pasted. But really the music will always be free. I have so many shows, and so many friends (Deadheads) with shows that we'll never have enough time to listen to all of them anyway. Back to trades and BnP, and human contact for that matter.

For the life of me I cannot understand why so many "Deadheads" that have been collecting and trading shows for 20+ years think this is such an evil act. How unGRATEFUL is that lot. So I guess you can be bitter and start petitions against the people we've all cared about for oh so long. I guess we can forget all the wonderful memories, and look to see who we can blame for taking away what was rightfully ours?

Not me. I will be forever Grateful. And I will continue to share the music I have, and seek the same from others. As for the haters, fine, go find another band that will allow all the things that the Grateful Dead have. Maybe the next show will have less people and more room for dancing. Peace and Thanks boys. It was a Hell of Ride!!!

 
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Poster: P-Train Date: November 26, 2005 10:13:17pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Money between friends is a sure way to destroy a friendship.

I feel a loss for the upcoming generations if this is the way GDP view the future.

It’s sad that it’s not “about the music” anymore to the remaining members of the Grateful Dead.

Hopefully something good can be achieved soon.

Thanks to Brewster, Matt Vernon and all those who had a hand in helping share the music.


 
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Poster: setver Date: November 26, 2005 10:55:10pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I'm very disappointed. This seems to go against the grain of what the Dead was all about.

I use the archive for two purposes:

1. I play in a band that wants to cover some GD material. We use the Archive to search for representative versions of important songs, both to understand the differences and to foster a better understanding of the way the tunes should actually be played. Now it's likely that the other guys in the band will stick closer to the album versions, which we all know is not correct.

2. To try to find the shows that I attended, in order to put my mental house back in order.

No foreseeable commercial replication of the archive's materials would contribute to either of those goals. I'm sorry to see the material go away.

The Internet being what it is, I don't expect the tunes to be forever gone; people will repost the material somewhere else. The actors who shut down the Archive will actually end up with less control of the material than they had before; and those looking for material will find less, with more effort. Everyone loses.

This post was modified by setver on 2005-11-27 06:55:10

 
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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: November 26, 2005 11:00:57pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead covers
I play in a band that wants to cover some GD material. We use the Archive to search for representative versions of important songs, both to understand the differences and to foster a better understanding of the way the tunes should actually be played. Now it's likely that the other guys in the band will stick closer to the album versions, which we all know is not correct.

Wow, that's a pretty different approach to improvisational music there either way, not one I would have thought of as an improv fan! My favorite covers of anything are the ones that throw away the tapes and the albums as the cover band makes the song *their absolute own*. Current favorite cover bend: Kottke/Gordon's Walk This Way. Live at a show, MMW's Hey Joe is a personal favorite example too.

 
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Poster: RipplinstillH20 Date: November 26, 2005 11:51:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
You can still get phil & friends and the "Q" shows as SDB's

Corporate greed suxs..bottom line

WE as family need to start our own site...let's called it
"jerry's vision of free music.org"

or somekind of cosmic shit like that...we can do this cuse WE are everywhere...dr's laywers, nurses, politician,indian chiefs...WE have the power of family to make this happen for our kids and theirs....so when I'm drooling in a cup somewhere ..I can tell my kids & grkids where to go to get some great live music...."hey kiddies, did you download that 5-8-77 show i told ya about"

LET'S STOP TALKING AND GRIPPING ABOUT IT AND MAKE IT HAPPEN FAMILY!!!!!
IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT CUSE IF YOU KEEP IT REAL YOU KNOW IF YOU WERE IN THERE POSITION YOU'D WANT THE $$$$ TOO, IT'S THE AMERICAN WAY....ISN'T THE GRATEFUL DEAD THE ULTIMATE AMERICAN BAND?
WE HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE THE WAY OUR MUSIC IS DISTRIBUTED!!

 
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Poster: DisguisedAsASquirrel Date: November 27, 2005 12:21:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I'm tiring of this "cosmic" talk, this solopsistic egocentrism. Some people out there have to stop fooling themselves about what this band is/was.

Jerry was not a guru of free music folks. There's a certain narcicisim that exists among certain circles of Deadheads that Jerry was singing for them. That he wanted you to have free music created by love and cosmic harmony and all of that. Thatwhole ideal is cool, but even Jerry acknowledged that it wasn't that simple. Nothing is that simple. The Grateful Dead were/are artists and entertainers AND businesspeople.

That he cared about creating beautiful music, sure, but that he was committed to giving music away, hell no! Check out his comments about the music as a busniess in Garcia, A Signpost to a New Space, published by Da Capo press. I know you'll have to actually go purchase it and patronize the corporate pigs that produce this stuff, but, its worth it. Or go to your library. Anyway, he talks about how they were f-up's in the music busniess not because they wanted to buck the capitalist coroprate machine, per se, rather, because they didn't care! They didn't care.

When they knew they were going to take a huge dump, maybe lose more than their shirts, business interests made them care. They fired Mickey Hart's ganif old man. He was screwing the band, so they fired him. Ramrod, ironically enough, was the catalyst. He said, "Him or me guys." So they knew they had to make hard choices, big decisions that might've pissed some people off, in this case a person in the center of the band. They did it to preserve the business.

I think this music was available for so long because; one, they knew it was the best way to market themselves, two, they couldn't organize it all and tour and live their own lives and three, they probably didn't need the dough. Now they do. Christ, folks, stop deifying Garcia. He wasn't going out there to play music for you to have in perpetuity for the price of a ticket.

Also, remember, Jerry isn't the Grateful Dead. Jerry was one fifth, seventh, of a band. Other people count too. Regardless of how anathema their ideas are to the "free music" sensibility, its their music. And, well, its our music too if we have it. Just like I have a picture of Jerry from a show in 1993 on my hard drive. Its mine, right. And well, if its mine and I want to share it with friends, without comercial gain, I can. So...What I'm saying is, let's share, folks. We all have the music. Just find another venue to share it. Stop bashing the Dead or corporate powers, or archive.org, or that patient sweetheart of a moderator, Diane Hamilton, or whoever for "betraying" Jerry's perceived "free music" ethic, and share the music.

Let's share the music.

disguisedasasquirrel@gmail.com


 
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Poster: johnny99 Date: November 27, 2005 01:34:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
I agree I think alot of people have this idea that somehow the Dead were playing music out of the sheer joy of making music, spreading joy and all that oher hippy dippy sh##, and for the most part they were, but you have to be truly naive to believe that there wasn't a business end to it. I mean why even charge for concerts at all if that was the case, why sign to record labels, sell cd's etc.

 
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Poster: Wildcrafter Date: December 01, 2005 11:35:10pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Grateful Dead concert recordings on the Internet Archive
Forgive all of us, who attribute to Garcia the intention of creativity that minimized the marketing aspect. The Grateful Dead were such a success because they failed repeatedly to achieve popularity in the mass market. I once cynically told John Barlow, that despite all his good intentions the web was just a new form of electric meter. At fifty I am not nearly as cynical and hope, what is referred to as "The Grateful Dead Model" will spread in all the arts and communications. While I'm not such a hippie to believe that everything should be free, I do believe that the corporate model and copyright need to be revised. The most disgusting manifestation of this is the way the deceased are marketed. Debra Koons Garcia could sell Jerry to anyone she wants. Consider Mickey Mouse and Elvis. We need to limit copyright and expand public domain. People react negatively because we are as individuals threatened by the neo-feudalism that modern capitalism has regressed to. I am horrified to think what classic music and literature would be if our current marketing system had existed since Guttenberg. Our heritage is analogous with what the tapers in the pit did at shows. They were and always will be heros to me. The heirs to the Grateful Dead should consider how the Internet Archive preserves the legacy and how their short sighted marketing goals diminish it.



 
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Poster: easybreeze Date: November 27, 2005 04:38:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Gratefu