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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Apr 25, 2007 11:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Felt forum 1971

Cliff has been spending some time recently, enjoying this historic four night stand. While these legendary shows routinely appear on many folks top ten lists for 1971, and Pig certainly has his moments here, Cliff is not altogether convinced that these epic shows warrant astronomical scores? Sure the sound quality is exceptional (for the most part), the playing extremely tight, and the New York City vibe is prevalent, but while Dark Star is played only once and there are some decent workouts of The Other One, the emphasis is on songs and there is little extended jamming. Cliff is left wondering; "Where's the beef?" What do you all think? Please help Cliff point up this legendary four night stand... 12/4/71 - Felt Forum Truckin’, Sugaree, Mister Charlie, Beat it on Down the Line, Tennessee Jed, Jack Straw, Run Rudolph Run, You Win Again, Me and Bobby McGee, Comes A Time, El Paso, Smokestack Lightning, One More Saturday Night, Cumberland Blues, Ramble On Rose, Me and My Uncle -> The Other One -> Mexicali -> The Other One -> Wharf Rat, Casey Jones Source: SB (Lai) Sound: A Score: (97-98) Highlights: slow/smokey Smokestack, Run Rudolph, Other One sandwich http://www.archive.org/details/gd71-12-04.sbd.lai.6256.sbefail.shnf 12/5/71 Bertha, Beat It On Down The Line, Big Boss Man, Brown Eyed Women, Muddy Water, Jack Straw, Mr. Charlie, Tennessee Jed, El Paso, Deal, Playin' In The Band, Next Time You See Me, Comes A Time, Casey Jones, One More Saturday Night Truckin', Ramble On Rose, It Hurts Me Too, Sugaree, Sugar Magnolia, Dark Star Jam-> Me & My Uncle-> Dark Star Jam-> Sitting On Top Of The World, Me And Bobby McGee, Big Railroad Blues, Mexicali Blues, You Win Again, Not Fade Away-> Goin' Down The Road Feelin' Bad-> Not Fade Away, E: Johnny B. Goode Source: Pre-FM SB (Miller) Sound: B+ Score: (99?) Comment: This is like a corked bottle! Whats with the sound here, Cliff had a better Pre-FM cassette of this show before he had to shave? Highlights: All the songs are played extremely well: Bertha, Truckin, Playin', Dark Star, Comes a Time will take your breath away! http://www.archive.org/details/gd71-12-05.prefm.miller.3391.sbeok.shnf 12/6/71 Truckin', Loser, Mr. Charlie, Jack Straw, China Cat Sunflower > I Know You Rider, Run Rudolph Run, El Paso, Tennessee Jed, Mexicali Blues, Black Peter, Next Time You See Me, Casey Jones Big Railroad Blues, Me And My Uncle, Ramble On Rose, Playing In The Band, Cryptical Envelopment > Drums > The Other One > Me And Bobby McGee > The Other One > Wharf Rat, One More Saturday Night, E: Uncle John's Band Source: SB (Kaplan) Sound: B+/A- Score: (98-99) Highlights: Playin', Truckin', Other One Sandwich http://www.archive.org/details/gd71-12-06.sbd.kaplan.2418.sbeok.shnf 12/7/71 Cold Rain And Snow, Beat It On Down The Line, Mr. Charlie, Sugaree, Jack Straw, Next Time You See Me, Tennessee Jed, El Paso, Brokedown Palace, Run Rudolph Run, You Win Again, Cumberland Blues, Casey Jones Sugar Magnolia, Ramble On Rose, Big Boss Man, Mexicali Blues, Brown Eyed Women, Me And My Uncle, Smokestack Lightning, Deal, Truckin', Not Fade Away -> Goin' Down The Road Feelin' Bad -> Not Fade Away, E: One More Saturday Night Source: SB (Miller) Sound: A/A+ Score: (97-98) Highlights: Again, all songs are played exceptionally well, Run Rudolph, Smokestack, NFA/GDTR/NFA http://www.archive.org/details/gd71-12-07.sbd.miller.3375.sbeok.shnf
This post was modified by Cliff Hucker on 2007-04-25 18:57:43

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Apr 25, 2007 12:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

Well, it's hard to be objective since I got to see the full run. Remember, Keith was just emerging and Pig was just returning. A whole lot of changes going on, and a whole lot of new songs to be perfected. I think that there are better jam shows from the Fall '71 tour, but there are many outstanding moments nonetheless.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 25, 2007 1:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

Ah--good to see you here my friend.

Of course, I usually cut off at 70; I love the April Fillmore shows, and put those ahead of these, and then, personally, would select 8-6-71 and 11-7-71 before the Dec run you speak of...but I would put it in 'fourth' if you follow my logic.

Those above have said it well, and better than I, so I won't bore you with repetition...

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Poster: mudcatbluez Date: Apr 25, 2007 12:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

Cliff--ARE YOU SHITTIN ME!?!

Not 10 minutes ago, bouncing around & getting ready for work, I start 12/6, having just wrapped 12/5 a bit earlier this pm. WTF, man...Deadzone synchronicity, methinks. Enough to pull me in for a quick appearance.

I haven't listened to 12/7/71 for a while; it being the only one of the 4 that I'd heard before last Monday. I remember the Smokestack being tasty, but memory's fuzzy beyond that.

12/4-5 have been occupying me for a couple of days, albeit piecemeal. Soundwise, from what I'm hearing, the night of the 5th is the weakest of the 3. I've been looking for another adjective to describe it, but your "bottled" nails it. I don't find it distracting & the recording remains a potent mix. ...And, hey, if 12/5's the "worst sound" the Felt run can give us, I'll take it, believe that.

I agree that this run leans more toward songs over extended jams, but don't you think the Dead periodically hit those spells? Some of '77 and the '80 Warfield/Radio City runs come to mind, though there are doubtlessly better examples out there.

I think the "beef" here lies in the package, in any one of the shows as a whole. At the end of your couple invested hours, do you feel as though those hours were well spent? Do you feel as though you've just put a helluva good show behind you? Do I? Shit yes. Excepting a couple repeats on the Smokestack, I haven't listened to 12/4 since Monday and I'm still loving that show, still thinking about it. As you say, they're playing tight. They're also having "one of those nights" (x4) where the symbiotic tumblers just fall into place: band>audience>venue, another night when it all just worked. Individually, these shows are solid enough (though I'd put 12/4 over 12/5); I think Felt Forum's rep lies largely in the run itself, a 4-night stand of rock-solid showings.

For me, 12/4's highlights lie in a Smokestack that may have usurped, in my heart, 11/19/66's. The Comes a Time is a severely cool reading. The sandwiches, TOO on 12/4 & Dark Star>Uncle>D-Star>SOTOTW the following night are tasty stacks indeed.

There's a whole lot to love about these shows. Do they deserve their rep? So far they're doing it for me in no uncertain way.

Peace.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Apr 25, 2007 6:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

Well that answers that, and very well Cliff might add mudcat!

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Poster: Chris Freedom Date: Apr 25, 2007 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

Hey Cliff,

Your highlights are right on.( I Love the Rudolph runs) I have not listened to these shows in awhile but I do have something to add to what Mudcat was just saying. I think we should remember that the felt forum is part of the Garden. It seems to me this would be a huge set of shows for the band in terms of moving up from playing the Filmore East. Now do not get me wrong I would rather see the Dead play in a small theather any day ,any time but if you think in terms of the future for the Dead there is no place more respected in the rock world in N.Y. then MSG. This is a huge step for a band that would one day break the record for appearances at MSG. Also just imagine how the Heads felt about getting out of the lower east side to see the Dead in the Garden complex.

Moving on up to the East Side...

Hey Ghost of Pig does my theory hold any weight with you since you were actually there?

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Apr 25, 2007 2:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

The Felt Forum is a part of the complex that also houses MSG. It is smaller and more intimate with better sound. It is on the West Side of town. In 1973, NRPS + Bobby and Jerry as guests did a very nice show there as well. I think the first rock group to play MSG were the Rolling Stones on their 1969 tour. Now, that was a gas, gas, gas!

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Poster: Chris Freedom Date: Apr 25, 2007 2:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

Yeah! it is right across the street from the main Post Office.
Living in Queens I used to get off the train and walk cross town to the Garden. I guess I must have crossed Broadway which is the dividing line between the East & West if I remember.

"Moving on up" is from the Jefferson's, anyway I was just trying to get a feel if you thought these shows were considered a step up for the Dead?

I remember the buzz it caused when the Dead did the nine night run at MSG. It was like being part of history. Did you get that feeling from the Felt forum run?

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Apr 25, 2007 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

Well, to me it was a major departure from the past. But, remember, the Fillmore East closed in April--selling out a five night run very quickly. Still, a fancy venue, a larger venue, a higher ticket price, a different buzz to it. I liked the place. I thought the shows were a little less in your face, but still vibrant. I had heard most of the new stuff in the Cincinnati-Columbus-- Cleveland run (and had the FM tape from Cinci), so I was aware of the new songs. And they were sweet.
I saw them again in 1973 at the Nassau Coliseum, and missed that good sound and pleasant vibe of the Forum.

Broadway, btw, is a truly crazy street. Did you know that it runs all the way up to Albany?

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Apr 25, 2007 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

Hear how Pig moans, "I been gone so long . . ." in recognition of his time off.

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Poster: mudcatbluez Date: Apr 25, 2007 1:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

He hits it, he just hits it. Coming straight up out of the heart of the blues. After the autumn he'd had, you gotta know he was just glad to be back & was out to scorch him some earth. I also dig the stage banter going into 12/5's Mr. Charlie where Weir's telling the "pirates" to get ready as this was their chance to catch a fresh one. --Almost as funny as Garcia telling the crowd not to give Keith "any of that wanna buy a watch shit" on his first trip to NYC. (12/4).

Off to work. Peace.

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Apr 25, 2007 5:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

Thanks Cliff, always appreciate these posts.

12/7/71 could be the best sounding old show on this site. Not for the jam only fans as you say, but great versions of just about every song. Needs to be part of any collection.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Apr 25, 2007 2:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

I'm a little more partial to the Ann Arbor shows two weeks later but I still like the 71-72 transition. To me it kind of had it all - they had the song thing down more tight than in 70 and earlier 71, and the jams took on a lot more of a free spacey flow with the addition of Keith. imho of course

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Poster: high flow Date: Apr 25, 2007 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Felt forum 1971

Hi Cliff - I really like 1971, but I must agree. I like the Spring shows from 71 better than this run.

Both the Spring and Winter shows are tight and songs are played quickly and in short time. These shows are really good starter shows(shorter jams), because it feels a bit like best-of-GD, at times(SEE PITB). But not as glorious as the kitchen-sink shows of 73, which seemed to have it all.

Of course, 71 has a bluesier feel and you get some Pig. And Jerry's guitar in 71 is hard to beat, IMO.